secular history?

[mo2]

I know this has been asked but I'm wondering if there is anything new out there. It is such a struggle to find non-Christian history curricula. If not a complete program, is there even a book list that has only secular titles? I am so tired of buying books only to realize too late that they are not secular!

 

Thanks.

[Corraleno]

What grade levels are you looking for?

 

Jackie

[Guest LowdenFamily]

Someone gave me The Story of the World, History For the Classical Child, Volume 1: Ancient Times. I have a daughter who is starting kindergarten at home, she's 4.5. Mostly I am using it because it was free and my friend left it in practically brand new condition. I will basically read the info to my daughter and work on it from there. She explained to me that the approach with this line of books is that there is Volume 1, 2, 3, and 4. then you repeat the book volumes starting in the 4th grade. They are then able to read it themselves. Volume 2 relates to 1st grade, vol3 is 2nd grade and vol4 is 3rd grade. There is also a work book with discussion questions and activities to do based on the chapters. The chapters in the reading book are very short. It's secular. Touches on some Biblical topics from a historical perspective, such as Baby Moses, Exodus from Egypt, Beginning of Christianity, Rome and Christians - those are some sample chapters. They seem to be completely from a historical perspective though.

[Capt_Uhura]

K12 Human Odyssey vol1, 2, 3. This is middle school level. You can purchase a teacher's guide and student pages to go w/ it at AMazon.com marketplace.

[Guest Cindie2dds]

I know this has been asked but I'm wondering if there is anything new out there. It is such a struggle to find non-Christian history curricula. If not a complete program, is there even a book list that has only secular titles? I am so tired of buying books only to realize too late that they are not secular!

 

Thanks.

 

I'm not sure what grade you are looking for, but I know Oak Meadow and K12 are secular.

[HRAAB]

K12 Human Odyssey vol1, 2, 3. This is middle school level. You can purchase a teacher's guide and student pages to go w/ it at AMazon.com marketplace.

 

This is what we're using for middle school. For the younger ones I'm still plugging along with SOTW. I've looked around a little at the Galore Park history books but haven't ordered one yet. I'm not sure what we'll use next year after finishing SOTW 2 this year.

[mo2]

Sorry, I should have mentioned. I have an 8yo I haven't done much history with. We tried SOTW but found it too Christian. (I know, many people have the opposite complaint with it.) I am on a limited budget and can't buy a ton of books, and our public library is not so good. I had a hard time finding ANY of the books recommended to go along with SOTW. I am looking at History Odyssey once we reach 5th grade, so I'm mainly looking for something for the grammar stage.

[Capt_Uhura]

Does anyone know if Gombrich's A Little History of the World is secular? My friend used it and she doesn't use anything Christian.

[HRAAB]

Does anyone know if Gombrich's A Little History of the World is secular? My friend used it and she doesn't use anything Christian.

 

I know people say it's secular, but it struck me as Christian. I don't own the book - checked it out from the library - but it definitely had a Christian feel to it. I can't give you any particulars though.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I bought TWTM back in '99 (First Edition) and the history lessons involved using a history encyclopedia like the Usborne History Encyclopedia (or Dampsey Parr, for a secular and UK perspective) and having you grammar stage child read a two-page spread and make a notebook page with a short summary and draw a picture.

 

 

Here's a ebay link the the DP book (under $9)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400120383855&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=WVF%3F&GUID=e7b2ab491260a0aad5675b47ff97da1f&itemid=400120383855&ff4=263602_263622

 

It begins with an two page spread titled, "The First Humans" and says:

 

"Life on our planet began some 3.2 billion years ago, with tiny cells that lived in the sea. But the first human-like creatures did not appear until about 4 million years ago, in Africa. These "Man-apes" came down from the trees they live in and began to walk on two legs."

 

There are maps and a timeline in the back. I think you could do plenty with it in the grammar stage.

 

hth

K

[mo2]

Does anyone know if Gombrich's A Little History of the World is secular? My friend used it and she doesn't use anything Christian.

 

This is one that I purchased because everywhere I checked, it was reviewed as being secular. But in my opinion, it is not. While I think the author is more tolerant of other religions, I think he assume the reader to be Christian.

[Capt_Uhura]

Do you not like Kingfisher or Usborne?

[mo2]

I bought TWTM back in '99 (First Edition) and the history lessons involved using a history encyclopedia like the Usborne History Encyclopedia (or Dampsey Parr' date=' for a secular and UK perspective) and having you grammar stage child read a two-page spread and make a notebook page with a short summary and draw a picture.

 

 

Here's a ebay link the the DP book (under $9)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400120383855&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=WVF%3F&GUID=e7b2ab491260a0aad5675b47ff97da1f&itemid=400120383855&ff4=263602_263622

 

It begins with an two page spread titled, "The First Humans" and says:

 

"Life on our planet began some 3.2 billion years ago, with tiny cells that lived in the sea. But the first human-like creatures did not appear until about 4 million years ago, in Africa. These "Man-apes" came down from the trees they live in and began to walk on two legs."

 

There are maps and a timeline in the back. I think you could do plenty with it in the grammar stage.

 

hth

K[/quote']

 

 

Thank you. I am going to take a look at this.

[mo2]

Do you not like Kingfisher or Usborne?

 

I have Usborne but am looking for something a little....less dry, perhaps. Maybe something more suited to reading aloud. My kid has a very hard time reading, and it would take all day to get through a 2-page spread.

[Capt_Uhura]

For an 8yr old, you could just do Kingfisher or Usborne and follow WTM guidelines...narrations, discussions. See if your library has books on a topic of interest to DC and move on to the next page. You could Science in Ancient Mesopotamia, China, Greece etc to beef it up if your DC is into science. I just found another good series History Opens Windows. We are reading The Indus Valley by Jane Shuter. I really like it for this age. Looks like there are 13 titles from The Sumerians all the way to the Renaissance.

[asta]

Here's the thing - if you want to teach your kid the history of the western world, you're going to have to accept some Christianity.

 

Everyone on this board knows that I am the first one to scream "WHY IS ALL OF THE CURRICULUM CHRISTIAN?????"

 

Well... in history at least, because they were the big winners for a significant portion of the story.

 

For K-8, Gombrich's book is a nice little spine. It starts with a bang, lets you decide for yourself if it was God or a speck, and goes from there. It has a lovely narrative that speaks to children, not at them. While primarily a Western narrative, it does manage to toss in bits of Eastern history (albeit from a Western perspective as Gombrich was English).

 

For 6-9ish, VanLoon is a good spine, I think. The reading level is slightly above that of Gombrich, and there is more detail, as well as a broader scope. I do find it to have a heavier "lean" towards Christianity, though.

 

After 5 years of this, I'm done getting angry about Christianity in history curricula. Honestly - what on earth did I think I was going to teach when I was done with the ancients? Was I going to skip the middle ages, the renaissance, the reformation and the counter-reformation? How on earth was I going to ever do American history if I couldn't explain WHAT all those people were trying to escape?

 

I bought a bunch of other books on eastern history, mythology, and different religions etc. to balance things out and just stopped worrying about it. There is no secular history.

 

 

asta

[iammommy]

It's secular. K12 is also secular. They are two very different curricula though. Both very good. Trisms is secular but I think it's for older children. I'm struggling with the same thing, but I've been fine with both Oak Meadow and K12 in terms of secularity (Is that a word? LOL)

 

Of course, there's Calvert. Secular, too.

 

Nan

[HRAAB]

Here's the thing - if you want to teach your kid the history of the western world, you're going to have to accept some Christianity.

 

asta

 

Of course, you're right. You can't teach history and leave out Christianity. I think, for me anyway, it's in the presentation. Is it presented as 'Christianity is the best, the truth, and all those poor Pagans need to accept Christianity so they can be moral' or is it presented as 'here is what the Christians did, what the non-Christians did, some good, some bad'. As for Gombrich's book, I would use it, however, it did have a definite pro-Christian feel to it. I have Van Loon's book and it has the same pro-Christian feel to it.

[LBS]

and wanting to try to notebook a bit, learn to search for information....and Trisms was a lot for us at the point we were....somebody suggested Westvon Publishing....they have a site, and sell thru CurrClick.....and I was really thrilled with the downloaded pages that I can print as I wish.

I used their Philosophical Essay Questions to base/spine a philosophy course, liked the history biographies.....two levels: Scribe and Scholar. I wish I could give credit to the kind board member who told me about it, but my memory is like swiss cheese....lots of holes.

 

They have sales and odd combinations of their downloads, so watch for a bargain time.

 

LBS

[mo2]

Of course, you're right. You can't teach history and leave out Christianity. I think, for me anyway, it's in the presentation. Is it presented as 'Christianity is the best, the truth, and all those poor Pagans need to accept Christianity so they can be moral' or is it presented as 'here is what the Christians did, what the non-Christians did, some good, some bad'.

 

:iagree:This is pretty much what I was going to say, only she said it better!

[Wildiris]

Here's the thing - if you want to teach your kid the history of the western world, you're going to have to accept some Christianity.

 

Everyone on this board knows that I am the first one to scream "WHY IS ALL OF THE CURRICULUM CHRISTIAN?????"

 

Well... in history at least, because they were the big winners for a significant portion of the story.

 

For K-8, Gombrich's book is a nice little spine. It starts with a bang, lets you decide for yourself if it was God or a speck, and goes from there. It has a lovely narrative that speaks to children, not at them. While primarily a Western narrative, it does manage to toss in bits of Eastern history (albeit from a Western perspective as Gombrich was English).

 

For 6-9ish, VanLoon is a good spine, I think. The reading level is slightly above that of Gombrich, and there is more detail, as well as a broader scope. I do find it to have a heavier "lean" towards Christianity, though.

 

After 5 years of this, I'm done getting angry about Christianity in history curricula. Honestly - what on earth did I think I was going to teach when I was done with the ancients? Was I going to skip the middle ages, the renaissance, the reformation and the counter-reformation? How on earth was I going to ever do American history if I couldn't explain WHAT all those people were trying to escape?

 

I bought a bunch of other books on eastern history, mythology, and different religions etc. to balance things out and just stopped worrying about it. There is no secular history.

 

 

asta

 

:iagree: asta is right on target with her response. When you're reading history to or with your kids you can always editorialize as you go. I am always pointing out that a history text may be presenting facts with a bias toward religion or politics when I read history with my kids. I feel it is the responsibility of the parent teacher to supply different points of view even if they rely on a single text for history. There is no single text that is going to be unbiased. All writers filter information through their personal experience. There is no such thing as being objective.

 

 

[mo2]

:iagree: asta is right on target with her response. When you're reading history to or with your kids you can always editorialize as you go. I am always pointing out that a history text may be presenting facts with a bias toward religion or politics when I read history with my kids. I feel it is the responsibility of the parent teacher to supply different points of view even if they rely on a single text for history. There is no single text that is going to be unbiased. All writers filter information through their personal experience. There is no such thing as being objective.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, I'm not wanting to escape the fact that religion exists. But I do want something that presents facts and events (This is what happened. They did it because they thought this.) without the commentary on whether or not those particular people were right in their thinking.

[NanceXToo]

We've only made it through the first nine chapters of SOTW Volume 1 as of yet, but so far I don't find it too Christian at all (speaking as a not-particularly-religious Jew) :D

 

We did those 9 chapters last summer. We stopped over the school year to focus on our Oak Meadow curriculum. We plan to go back to SOTW in the next week or two, after we wrap up OM.

[Lovedtodeath]

http://bringinguplearners.com/the-free-curriculum-project/ free world history

 

A Little History of the World-- E.H. Gombrich review: my review

[Ray]

HAOH http://historyatourhouse.com/?p=78

[Night Elf]

Someone gave me The Story of the World, History For the Classical Child, Volume 1: Ancient Times.

 

You're talking about the Story of the World series by the author of The Well-Trained Mind. In case you're wondering, it's usually abbreviated as SOTW on these boards. Definitely good books, but there are some people who view them as having a Christian slant and some who don't think they provide enough of a Christian worldview. I believe it's one of those trial and error things. Well, I believe all curriculum choices are trial and error. :tongue_smilie:

[Night Elf]

Pandia Press has a secular history program. It uses the SOTW series though, which I think you said you didn't like.

 

Perhaps you could use the SOTW Activity Guide to get the suggestions of history and literature books though. There isn't anything saying you have to read from SOTW, just use its book suggestions. :)

[mo2]

Pandia Press has a secular history program. It uses the SOTW series though, which I think you said you didn't like.

 

Perhaps you could use the SOTW Activity Guide to get the suggestions of history and literature books though. There isn't anything saying you have to read from SOTW, just use its book suggestions. :)

 

 

I tried using the AG for their book suggestions. Unfortunately, I have a crappy library. :glare:

[Just Robyn]

Of course, you're right. You can't teach history and leave out Christianity. I think, for me anyway, it's in the presentation. Is it presented as 'Christianity is the best, the truth, and all those poor Pagans need to accept Christianity so they can be moral' or is it presented as 'here is what the Christians did, what the non-Christians did, some good, some bad'. As for Gombrich's book, I would use it, however, it did have a definite pro-Christian feel to it. I have Van Loon's book and it has the same pro-Christian feel to it.

 

Right. That AND I'll add that some books, like, oh, say... SOTW - present Bible stories like "God spoke to so-and-so" as though they were historically accurate while making it perfectly clear that other myths are not factual. It's one thing to teach about Christians and Christianity, since they exist and have made some history. It's another thing to teach that Christian myths are facts.

[Just Robyn]

Sorry, I should have mentioned. I have an 8yo I haven't done much history with. We tried SOTW but found it too Christian. (I know, many people have the opposite complaint with it.) I am on a limited budget and can't buy a ton of books, and our public library is not so good. I had a hard time finding ANY of the books recommended to go along with SOTW. I am looking at History Odyssey once we reach 5th grade, so I'm mainly looking for something for the grammar stage.

 

Pandia Press has a secular history program. It uses the SOTW series though, which I think you said you didn't like.

 

Perhaps you could use the SOTW Activity Guide to get the suggestions of history and literature books though. There isn't anything saying you have to read from SOTW, just use its book suggestions. :)

 

History Odyssey uses SOTW, but skips the very Christian chapters. We're using it and it's a lot of fun.

[Matryoshka]

For K-8, Gombrich's book is a nice little spine. It starts with a bang, lets you decide for yourself if it was God or a speck, and goes from there. It has a lovely narrative that speaks to children, not at them. While primarily a Western narrative, it does manage to toss in bits of Eastern history (albeit from a Western perspective as Gombrich was English).

 

Gombrich was not English, nor Christian. He was an Austrian Jew who moved to England in 1936 as Hitler was making his rise to power. I don't know if he was a practicing Jew, but that made little difference in the climate of those times. Little History of the World was published in 1936 in Germany, in German. It was not available in English till many years later.

 

I would say he does assume his audience to be Christian, as most Germans (the audience he wrote the book for) were Christian, although mostly liberal, non-literal sort - either Catholic or Lutheran for the most part.

 

Gombrich updated the book with a new final chapter sometime in the last decade or so, to include the first and second World Wars, which were not in the original book (the second World War hadn't even started at the time of publication, after all).

 

I'm having my kids read this book in the original German as a supplement to our history studies. We use secular materials in our homeschool, but I'm not phased by the Judeo-Christian references in this book. If it were the only source we were using I might feel differently, but as it is I'll take it as an opportunity to discuss point of view and perhaps even unwitting bias/assumption on the part of an author.

 

For secular materials to use as a spine overall, I'd vote SOTW for grammar and K12's Human Odyssey for logic stage. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

Pandia Press has a secular history program. It uses the SOTW series though, which I think you said you didn't like.

 

Perhaps you could use the SOTW Activity Guide to get the suggestions of history and literature books though. There isn't anything saying you have to read from SOTW, just use its book suggestions. :)

Pandia Press also schedules an encyclopedia and Child's History of the World. I know some have used it without SOTW. Pandia Press also has a different booklist. Ancient Explorations can easily be used with the encyclopedia and extra reading only. We quickly learned that SOTW was "too boring" for my DD.;)

 

I tried using the AG for their book suggestions. Unfortunately, I have a crappy library. :glare:

Ancient Explorations uses books from Amazon.com for this very reason.

 

Right. That AND I'll add that some books, like, oh, say... SOTW - present Bible stories like "God spoke to so-and-so" as though they were historically accurate while making it perfectly clear that other myths are not factual. It's one thing to teach about Christians and Christianity, since they exist and have made some history. It's another thing to teach that Christian myths are facts.

For a comparison, The K-12 Public School book Human Odyssey uses almost exactly the same wording, only where SOTW says that the story can be found in the Bible, Human Odyssey says that the story is found in the Torah. Human Odyssey also has much more Jewish history and much of it from the Bible presented as fact (not inside the myth box which shows that the story is coming from a religious text). Edited May 18, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[Orthodox6]

I know this has been asked but I'm wondering if there is anything new out there. It is such a struggle to find non-Christian history curricula. If not a complete program, is there even a book list that has only secular titles? I am so tired of buying books only to realize too late that they are not secular!

 

Thanks.

 

I would think this an easy task. All public school materials are, by law, secular.

 

Prentice-Hall (now owned by Pearson Education) allows homeschool parents to file a letter (I forget what info they request), and then purchase curricula from them, including teacher editions and answer keys.

[Lovedtodeath]

You might click on the tag for more information. Here are a couple of quotes:

CoreKnowledge Pearson History and Geography

 

You might like to look at Junior History from Galore Park - there are samples on the website for all three books in the series.

 

Laura

Oh my. I see you have been asking this for a while. Well, the only new one I know of is Ancient Explorations, but it isn't finished and no Middle Ages yet. BringinguplearnersMosaic has something for middle ages now, it isn't complete, but people are using what is there. Edited May 18, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[lisabees]

Connect the Thoughts.

 

http://www.my1ststep.com/elementary--history.php

http://www.connectthethoughts.net/lower--history.php

 

You can see samples and buy it on CurrClick.

http://www.currclick.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=138&filters=0_0_0_0_0

 

I would also recommend Oak Meadow.

http://www.oakmeadow.com/curriculum/k-8.php

[asta]

Gombrich was not English, nor Christian. He was an Austrian Jew who moved to England in 1936 as Hitler was making his rise to power.

 

Thank you for the correction. It has been some time since we read that book. Now that you mention it, I remember that he did indeed emigrate to England.

 

---------------

 

I used TRISMS (or, rather, my own bastardized version of it) for middle school along with Usborne and Gombrich (and other stuff). I'm doing a lot of stuff for high school, but am also using Sherri Chekal's (Westvon) History Scribe High School Sheets. They have excellent essay prompts that I use for timed essay practice. If you get on her mailing list, she sends out significant discounts and freebies every month. She is currently having a sale.

 

 

a

[lailasmum]

I have managed to use SOTW in a secular way, I think. Just slightly re worded things as I have read them and balanced the supporting books we have read and documentaries we have watched to give mixed views. We are just finishing SOTW1 though it may be more of an issue later I don't know.

 

I have added lot of 'XYZ believed he was told' as opposed to 'XYZ was told'. And lots of conversations about different religions and belief systems, and how what people believe drives them to do things and shapes their idea of what is normal and right.

 

I have been looking at History odyssey though for next time round.

[mammaofbean]

Here's the thing - if you want to teach your kid the history of the western world, you're going to have to accept some Christianity.

 

Everyone on this board knows that I am the first one to scream "WHY IS ALL OF THE CURRICULUM CHRISTIAN?????"

 

Well... in history at least, because they were the big winners for a significant portion of the story.

 

For K-8, Gombrich's book is a nice little spine. It starts with a bang, lets you decide for yourself if it was God or a speck, and goes from there. It has a lovely narrative that speaks to children, not at them. While primarily a Western narrative, it does manage to toss in bits of Eastern history (albeit from a Western perspective as Gombrich was English).

 

For 6-9ish, VanLoon is a good spine, I think. The reading level is slightly above that of Gombrich, and there is more detail, as well as a broader scope. I do find it to have a heavier "lean" towards Christianity, though.

 

After 5 years of this, I'm done getting angry about Christianity in history curricula. Honestly - what on earth did I think I was going to teach when I was done with the ancients? Was I going to skip the middle ages, the renaissance, the reformation and the counter-reformation? How on earth was I going to ever do American history if I couldn't explain WHAT all those people were trying to escape?

 

I bought a bunch of other books on eastern history, mythology, and different religions etc. to balance things out and just stopped worrying about it. There is no secular history.

 

 

asta

 

i wouldn't say i am "mad" at all. i am not interested in getting rid of all of these texts, just looking for one that works for us.

 

the gombrich is VERY christian. not only is it christian, but the inaccuracies in the text in the first chapters are mostly attributable to use of christian writings as the primary source. the writing is darling, so i am sure this work is perfect for many, but after struggling through a few chapters we are putting it down.

 

we are going back to kingfisher book of the ancient world with supplementation from other books. it is imperfect, but easier to edit than gombrich.

 

i also avoid the teaching of greek and medieval mythology as history. text that treat them as factual will be shelved along with the gombrich, and can be brought down when my kids are out of the grammar stage and can evaluate and appreciate them for what they are.

[asta]

i wouldn't say i am "mad" at all. i am not interested in getting rid of all of these texts, just looking for one that works for us.

 

the gombrich is VERY christian. not only is it christian, but the inaccuracies in the text in the first chapters are mostly attributable to use of christian writings as the primary source. the writing is darling, so i am sure this work is perfect for many, but after struggling through a few chapters we are putting it down.

 

we are going back to kingfisher book of the ancient world with supplementation from other books. it is imperfect, but easier to edit than gombrich.

 

i also avoid the teaching of greek and medieval mythology as history. text that treat them as factual will be shelved along with the gombrich, and can be brought down when my kids are out of the grammar stage and can evaluate and appreciate them for what they are.

 

I apologize in advance if this comes off as rude (difficult to convey things across teh internets and all), but I honestly have never come across anyone who teaches greek and medieval mythology (popular terminology) as history. They teach it simply as "stories". Especially at the grammar stage. (with the caveat that we do have some polytheists on the board who teach it quite differently)

 

Now, if one is looking at mythology in its true definition, "mythos" (as Bill/Steve/Spycar always points out) there really isn't any other choice, as the mythos of any given culture is its underlying belief system. If one is studying a particular culture, one is studying, by default, its mythos.

 

While it is certainly within the purview of anyone to avoid any mythos that they are either uncomfortable or disagree with (just reading this board shows a wide range of narrow comfort zones), that does not deny the, fact is not quite the right word (as we all know that facts are fluid in history depending on who is writing it), position? that authors are limited by what written records they have available to them for the time period of which they are writing.

 

I don't view the bible as a historical document, I view it as a religious one. Many other people here view it the other way around. I view egyptian records as historical. Other people view them as religious. Who is right? We make our choices. Like someone else said, take what you want, edit, supplement.

 

Lots of us have simply written our own curricula and just powered on.

 

Good luck to you.

 

 

asta

[Night Elf]

i also avoid the teaching of greek and medieval mythology as history. text that treat them as factual will be shelved along with the gombrich, and can be brought down when my kids are out of the grammar stage and can evaluate and appreciate them for what they are.

 

What text(s) teach mythology as factual? I'm not familiar with that curriculum, but I'm really interested in seeing it! I'm a curriculum nut. :D