How many years do you recommend latin before moving on?

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

We are planning to start latin next year, then we want to go on to spanish (and my oldest would like to get french in yet) then the youngers will just keep adding languages. How long do you recommend learning latin? Well any language?

[Rosie_0801]

Until you've achieved the level of proficiency you want to achieve.

 

How's that for a useful answer? :lol:

 

Rosie

[Amber in AUS]

Similar to Rosie, what is your aim? Fluency or just exposure. If fluency then you keep on truckin'.

[Laura Corin]

We don't drop languages. Calvin and Hobbes started Mandarin at 7 and 4 respectively. They each began Latin seriously at about 9. French started at age 12 and 8 respectively. And Hobbes decided on Greek when he was about 8.

 

The Greek is intermittent, but all the others are moving forwards. Both boys will be continuing all three languages when they go to school this August. They might cut down to two languages when they are sixteen if they are pushed for time doing the International Baccalaureate.

 

Laura

[In The Great White North]

I told dd, who would rather do modern languages, she had to finish Henle 1.

[Ester Maria]

I don't recommend dropping at all. Outside of the anglophone world, it's not unheard of that children study two modern AND two classical languages (in some cases even more) at the same time throughout their entire education and, believe me, they're doing just fine. I don't recommend adding languages at the same time, but once you've decided to go for it, I don't see a reason to drop.

[Peela]

I think any amount of Latin is better than no amount of Latin. One could say "the more the better" but at some stage, there might be other priorities. You could have a goal or you could see year by year.

 

I did one year of Latin at highschool- didnt like it much, but it had a profound affect on me and I could remember a reasonable amount when I came to teaching/learning with my kids. Just the small amount of familiarity I had with basic Latin- which I had mostly forgotten but came back to me- made me much more confident about doing it with my kids and has made me enthusiastic about keeping it up over several years. We are just now dropping it- the kids are almost 16, and 14 and they've been doing it for 5 years or so. Which doesnt mean they have reached a high level- we havent moved quickly- but it has been a fun and reqwarding journey.

[Jyniffrec]

I took Spanish and French in high school at the same time (the classes were back to back as a matter of fact). I loved it and made As and Bs. I have one kid that I think would have the ability and desire to do that. The others haven't shown as much interest, but they are still young. :)

[Susie in CA]

My short answer is that you don't drop anything. You just keep on adding. This is what they do at schools in Austria (and I am sure in other countries as well). My friends' kids in Austria went through this progression:

 

Birth - German

1st Grade - English

5th Grade - French

9th Grade - they chose Spanish (at this point they had some choices available. I believe those included Spanish, Latin, Italian and Russian).

 

By the time they are in highschool they are actively studying 4 languages. Now if I could only figure out how to do it myself. :D

 

I am not suggesting that your kids learn that many languages, I am saying, though, that you should not drop one you started. My kids know they can drop languages when they are done with highschool. :tongue_smilie:

 

Susie

[lionfamily1999]

I don't recommend dropping at all. Outside of the anglophone world, it's not unheard of that children study two modern AND two classical languages (in some cases even more) at the same time throughout their entire education and, believe me, they're doing just fine. I don't recommend adding languages at the same time, but once you've decided to go for it, I don't see a reason to drop.

Are these in addition to their own language, or is one of the modern languages their native tongue?

[JudoMom]

We're in the "just keep adding" camp so far :).

 

We've been doing some form of Latin for a few years, and will continue (hopefully) through high school (I don't have a plan on where we'll end up, only that we keep progressing). Dh is teaching us Koine Greek (it was one of his college majors) and I'd like for the boys to be able to understand the New Testament in Greek.. Ds10 started Spanish this year in 5th, and in 7th I plan on adding in French (I'd like some level of fluency in these two languages).

 

We've found that the other languages are easier to learn because of our Latin study, so it's not as overwhelming as it seems.

[Suzannah]

Well, early on I hoped DS would continue Latin through high school, in addition to at least one modern language. Then after a couple of years I thought I might let him drop it. The new had worn off, it was work and I figured he'd probably gotten the benefit of learning a language. But then I started thinking that having put all this work into it, he really ought to have something to show for it on a transcript.

 

When I was in high school my family was stationed in Iceland. I remember being very impressed to learn that Icelandic kids (who speak Icelandic BTW) learn Danish in 4th grade, English in 5th grade, choose another language in high school and may choose yet another language in college.

 

We are considering Koine Greek for DS in 8th next year. This is his preference, but he only wants familiarity. He will probably begin a modern language in 9th grade. (We've been doing a little French conversationally for a couple of years.) I've thought that unless he truly loves Greek we'll just do it for one year, then let it go in favor of other high school work.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

We don't drop languages. Calvin and Hobbes started Mandarin at 7 and 4 respectively. They each began Latin seriously at about 9. French started at age 12 and 8 respectively. And Hobbes decided on Greek when he was about 8.

 

The Greek is intermittent, but all the others are moving forwards. Both boys will be continuing all three languages when they go to school this August. They might cut down to two languages when they are sixteen if they are pushed for time doing the International Baccalaureate.

 

Laura

 

 

Is that confusing to them to do more than 1 at a time?

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I don't recommend dropping at all. Outside of the anglophone world, it's not unheard of that children study two modern AND two classical languages (in some cases even more) at the same time throughout their entire education and, believe me, they're doing just fine. I don't recommend adding languages at the same time, but once you've decided to go for it, I don't see a reason to drop.

 

How would you recommend adding them? After a year of a language? 2 years? Or depending on how easily they pick it up?

[Laura Corin]

Is that confusing to them to do more than 1 at a time?

 

We don't start more than one at a time - we wait for each language to bed in for a bit (ideally a year or more) before adding another. We play around with mixing the various languages for fun sometimes, but they don't find it confusing. In fact I deliberately juxtapose languages: Hobbes and I might spend half an hour on French, followed by half an hour on Latin. Or we all might speak French in the car on the way to Chinese class. Many Europeans switch languages all the time - it's just a trick that can be learned.

 

Laura

[fractalgal]

Is that confusing to them to do more than 1 at a time?

 

I think it depends on the child. Some children really enjoy learning new languages.

 

For example, since September my daughter has completed Latin (LC1), Spanish(Learnables 1), and Hebrew (Shalom Uvrachah). She even requested to do French for the rest of the school year. I printed off free French vocabulary words to keep her occupied during the times when she used to have a language lesson.

 

She was not confused, but I did keep them separate as courses.

 

I can see differences in my own children as to how much they can handle when it comes to languages, so it really does depend on the child.

[Andrew Kern]

I agree that it depends on the child and on your goals. If your child has the capacity to be classically educated, then I would push it as far as you possibly can.

 

If you hope to see them exercise servant leadership in their communities when they grow up, I would urge a thorough mastery of Greek and Latin as early as possible.

 

If you hope to see them enter the ministry, please, a mastery of Greek before they get to seminary so they don't have to use their precious time there learning grammar and studying "psychology."

 

If they are going to be scholars, they'll need as much Latin and Greek as possible to fulfill their potential.

 

If they are going to sing, they'll need Latin.

 

Scientists? Latin and Greek.

 

Moms and dads: Latin and Greek and your family's heritage language.

 

Husbands? Admit it, wives dig poems written in Romance languages. Definitely French.

 

If they are going to think theologically or philosophically, Latin and Greek, plus German.

 

Writers: Latin and Greek please!

 

Doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs? Don't skimp on the Latin and add the Greek too.

 

If you want higher SAT scores, a few years of Latin will do. Colleges like a couple on your transcript too. If those are your goals, I wouldn't push. Just enough to say you did it.

 

Of course, Latin starts to be fun when it isn't all work any more, so I would hope they can get to Ovid and Virgil to justify the time they had to spend memorizing chants and jingles! Give them the reward of their labor.

 

Be sure to go at the pace determined by their capacities. Some get it easily, others more slowly, but they'll never have to work as hard as they had to to learn English (or whatever they learned first).

[lionfamily1999]

I agree that it depends on the child and on your goals. If your child has the capacity to be classically educated, then I would push it as far as you possibly can.

 

 

 

If they are going to think theologically or philosophically, Latin and Greek, plus German.

 

 

 

Be sure to go at the pace determined by their capacities. Some get it easily, others more slowly, but they'll never have to work as hard as they had to to learn English (or whatever they learned first).

:grouphug: (and a girly squeel)

 

Where can you get German? You just laid out the four languages I wanted to study. We're in the thick of Latin and Greek, preparing to add in French and I'd hoped to get some German by Middle School. The problem is, I can't find a course in German. The Latin, Greek and French are all courses made so that parents can learn with their children, but I can't find a similar course for German. Any suggestions?

[Beth in SW WA]

I've actually given this lots of thought over the last year.

 

Dc did 2 years of Latin with a tutor & online class in middle school then switched to Spanish with a tutor in preparation for high school. At the time, I was very enthusiastic about Latin for many reasons -- despite the frustration and expense. Dc wanted to learn Spanish, but I insisted on Latin for the 'mental' training per SWB & Drew Campbell's (LCC) recommendations. We never had the goal of reading original Latin texts.

 

I wish we had spent more time on Latin/Greek roots, rather than Latin grammar.

 

I also regret they did not learn Spanish earlier. Fellow students are more advanced in Spanish in ds's high school. Dd (7th grade) is in high school Spanish 1 in a 9th grade class in our local school district. She loves it. In fact, today is the Spanish fiesta and a presentation of their country projects.

 

Latin caused a lot of headaches around here in middle school since we are non-Latin parents. Not sure if it was the most efficient use of our time.

 

Our little dc will begin Spanish now. We may do a gentle introduction to Latin, but it won't consume our schedule as Latin did. We may do Song School & LFC A. We will do Latin roots but not heavily focus on Latin grammar.

[Susie in CA]

I'll chime in to agree with you. There are not a lot of options for German. I speak German, and this makes it easier.

We use German daily, we use Rosetta Stone, Klett, movies, cd's etc. The boys also go to a German School on and off, depending on how much time we have. Most of this requires a German speaker. I really don't know if I could do German if I didn't speak it.

 

The options pretty much are Rosetta Stone, Learnable, Powerglide (which I dispise).

 

Susie

 

 

:grouphug: (and a girly squeel)

 

Where can you get German? You just laid out the four languages I wanted to study. We're in the thick of Latin and Greek, preparing to add in French and I'd hoped to get some German by Middle School. The problem is, I can't find a course in German. The Latin, Greek and French are all courses made so that parents can learn with their children, but I can't find a similar course for German. Any suggestions?

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I agree that it depends on the child and on your goals. If your child has the capacity to be classically educated, then I would push it as far as you possibly can.

 

If you hope to see them exercise servant leadership in their communities when they grow up, I would urge a thorough mastery of Greek and Latin as early as possible.

 

If you hope to see them enter the ministry, please, a mastery of Greek before they get to seminary so they don't have to use their precious time there learning grammar and studying "psychology."

 

If they are going to be scholars, they'll need as much Latin and Greek as possible to fulfill their potential.

 

If they are going to sing, they'll need Latin.

 

Scientists? Latin and Greek.

 

Moms and dads: Latin and Greek and your family's heritage language.

 

Husbands? Admit it, wives dig poems written in Romance languages. Definitely French.

 

If they are going to think theologically or philosophically, Latin and Greek, plus German.

 

Writers: Latin and Greek please!

 

Doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs? Don't skimp on the Latin and add the Greek too.

 

If you want higher SAT scores, a few years of Latin will do. Colleges like a couple on your transcript too. If those are your goals, I wouldn't push. Just enough to say you did it.

 

Of course, Latin starts to be fun when it isn't all work any more, so I would hope they can get to Ovid and Virgil to justify the time they had to spend memorizing chants and jingles! Give them the reward of their labor.

 

Be sure to go at the pace determined by their capacities. Some get it easily, others more slowly, but they'll never have to work as hard as they had to to learn English (or whatever they learned first).

 

 

:D So are you trying to say you recommend latin and greek??? :lol: LOL Well I have one that has decided on a career, the others are not old enough, my 8 year old has changed 4X this week LOL. My 6th grader wants to be a veterinarian. So we are going to do latin, I am guessing greek also? We want to do spanish, and My 2nd grader wants to learn egyptian :lol: . What else other than latin, greek and spanish would you recommend??

[Ester Maria]

How would you recommend adding them? After a year of a language? 2 years? Or depending on how easily they pick it up?

It depends on the child, some children have no problem starting three new languages in the same academic year, but most of the children profit from letting things "settle down" a little and allowing an academic year or two - at the very least a semester - before adding a new language.

If they are going to sing, they'll need Latin.

 

Scientists? Latin and Greek.

 

[...]

 

If they are going to think theologically or philosophically, Latin and Greek, plus German.

 

Writers: Latin and Greek please!

 

Doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs? Don't skimp on the Latin and add the Greek too.

Italian and German, even Russian, are far, FAR more important in the world of classical music than classics. After all, where do musical wunderkinds get sent? To Vienna and Sankt Peterburg, last time I checked.

Art, history of art? Italian, Italian and more Italian before anything else.

 

Russian and German are far, FAR more important in the context of sciences and technology (depending on the discipline) than classics. I have a husband in Pharmacy and a daughter aiming to enter the world of science as well, and she was recommended with utmost seriousness by a whole bunch of my husband's colleagues and friends to attain a proficiency in either or both of these languages before she starts her academic formation, because they're excellent to have in addition to English. Nobody even mentioned Latin or Greek, because you'll learn the terminology anyway, and the advantage of having it easier with terminology is a lot smaller than the advantage of knowing some of the big languages with a lot of resources and texts.

 

Philosophy and theology? As much as I agree that a good working knowledge of classics is important if you wish to deal with the "origins", your recommendation to learn German is a lot more relevant for Philosophy (in addition to, say, French); when it comes to theology, THE text of the texts is written in Hebrew, and it's a lot more fundamental language to serious theology than Latin, unless you're specifically into some obscure Catholic philosophy in the case of which yes, Latin is your best bet. And Italian. Italian, rather than Latin, is actually Catholic "lingua franca" in the modern context.

 

Writers? I would actually recommend a serious knowledge of one modern foreign language and culture to an aspiring writer, to be able to follow trends outside of the anglophone market, to be able to thoroughly think in another language and exercise the ability of expression through another medium, which leads to a more nuanced understanding of the ways of your language and culture.

 

Doctors? Lawyers? A couple of our very good family friends who are not expats (we usually hang around other expats here) are lawyers and interestingly, two of them have never studied Latin in their lives... yet they learned their argumentation and critical thinking through Hebrew/Aramaic and countless hours spent debating legal issues in Gemara (Talmud). Later in university they easily caught up with the Latin expressions they had to learn, but as one of them said, "it was too little of that to justify learning a whole language, it was just unnecessary". Same goes for doctors.

 

/

I don't disagree with you at all on the importance of classics :), but I have a completely different conception on why they're important.

 

From my perspective, it's not about roots or carriers, or "practicality" in any way for certain discipline or for your life - as a matter of fact, a working knowledge of one or several modern languages solves all of that AND is a useful skill in the 21st century - it's about the transmission of a specific cultural heritage which some people choose to treasure, and some don't. I compare classics and a more thorough study of the classical antiquity to Jewish education in that aspect. Sort of, "it's the purpose for itself, BECAUSE it's a cultural heritage", rather than "it's good/useful for X".

 

I don't believe a "complete" humanist / liberal arts education can be done without classics, in the context of the "Western culture" - but I also don't think that's the ONLY mode of education that should be applied to all schools and, in our case on these boards, all families.

 

Personally, we do transmit that cultural heritage and it's non-negotiable for us (but we're also Italians, for our cultural circle classics - especially Latin - are a LOT more fundamental than for the American context), but I see why many people wouldn't need or want to do it, though I still find it a shame if kids aren't at least offered classics, to try, to see if they have the will and capacity for the extra burden on their studies and for a more thorough understanding of the "origins".

 

Sorry for hijacking your post - I don't disagree, just thinking aloud, in the context of "giving up on Latin" that a few people brought up. :)

[Smithie]

Latin, Greek and Hebrew are the goal languages in this household - and I'll be darned if I can understand why you Christian folk do not prioritize literacy in Hebrew. ;) Some fairly important stuff has been written down in that language.

 

I hope very much that my children become passable speakers of several modern languages - but IMO that's a life experience thing, not a formal education thing.

[lauracolumbus]

 

Doctors? Lawyers? A couple of our very good family friends who are not expats (we usually hang around other expats here) are lawyers and interestingly, two of them have never studied Latin in their lives... yet they learned their argumentation and critical thinking through Hebrew/Aramaic and countless hours spent debating legal issues in Gemara (Talmud). Later in university they easily caught up with the Latin expressions they had to learn, but as one of them said, "it was too little of that to justify learning a whole language, it was just unnecessary". Same goes for doctors.

. :)

 

As a lawyer, I would have to disagree with this statement (because that's what we do:tongue_smilie:). I think knowing Latin would have been helpful to me through three years of studying a lot of Latin-based legal terms--especially my first year when everything else was so confusing as well. While it might not have made a huge difference, in the cut-throat law school environment, every little bit would have helped quite a as I spent a good chunk of my time not only looking up Latin words, but trying to grasp their meaning, words such as habeas corpus. Now this is not reason enough to learn Latin, but it adds to the otherwise long list of reasons.

 

Laura

[Ester Maria]

I'll be darned if I can understand why you Christian folk do not prioritize literacy in Hebrew. ;)

Imagine how many questions that might open... some of that is theologically, ahem, mesukan. ;)

[Ester Maria]

As a lawyer, I would have to disagree with this statement (because that's what we do:tongue_smilie:). I think knowing Latin would have been helpful to me through three years of studying a lot of Latin-based legal terms--especially my first year when everything else was so confusing as well. While it might not have made a huge difference, in the cut-throat law school environment, every little bit would have helped quite a as I spent a good chunk of my time not only looking up Latin words, but trying to grasp their meaning, words such as habeas corpus. Now this is not reason enough to learn Latin, but it adds to the otherwise long list of reasons.

 

Laura

I'm not negating the direct usefulness of Latin for several disciplines, law being probably THE example. :) I just brought up an example of a successful lawyer coming from an entirely different educational background who found his "legal" preparation (i.e. the fact that he studied law most of his life, albeit a religious law) far more useful in the context of his work than his peers' "linguistic" preparation - because the latter is easier to catch up than the former.

 

I actually come from a family of lawyers and economists, and I was "expected" to go to law school too (but I rebelled :D), so I definitely see where you're coming from, and yes, I don't contradict you here. It would have been useful for you too... but it wasn't necessary, that was my point.

[wapiti]

I can't say I used Latin much as a lawyer. Indeed, I had forgotten so much by the time I went to law school that I still had to look up most Latin terms in the law dictionary. Perhaps I just never learned it that well the first time :D

 

I'm teaching my kids Latin for the purpose of English grammar (we're afterschooling). My gut says it's the right way to approach it for them. (They have language processing issues but are good with math and patterns, so I'm hoping Latin will be as easy as math. So far so good, knock on wood.) And of course the vocabulary. I guess my thinking here is kinda LCC-ish, though theoretically they should be learning grammar at school too.

[tricia]

We will be doing 3 years and after that french. Right now we are in our second year.

[Rosie_0801]

We're focusing on English and Auslan until the kids start prep (your K.) Then, assuming they are age appropriately functional in those two languages (:glare:) we'll start with some Latin for fun. In grade one they'll start Arabic Saturday school. I'm hoping they'll continue the Arabic all the way through, and start French when they finish studying Latin, continuing with Latin reading.

 

The Auslan is only for a home language, so we don't care to spend much time in instruction after that. I'm sure the Latin could wait longer, except their Dad is really interested in it and we mustn't waste that! I don't have the resources to learn either Arabic or French for myself, so French will wait until the kids are old enough to do outside classes and I hope their Latin and grammar exposure will give them a good foundation to jump off.

 

Rosie

[lionfamily1999]

I'll chime in to agree with you. There are not a lot of options for German. I speak German, and this makes it easier.

We use German daily, we use Rosetta Stone, Klett, movies, cd's etc. The boys also go to a German School on and off, depending on how much time we have. Most of this requires a German speaker. I really don't know if I could do German if I didn't speak it.

 

The options pretty much are Rosetta Stone, Learnable, Powerglide (which I dispise).

 

Susie

What is Learnable?

 

We dabble on the BBC web site (mostly with Celtic, as useful as that is :p ), but I was hoping for something more formal than many of the disc language classes...

Latin, Greek and Hebrew are the goal languages in this household - and I'll be darned if I can understand why you Christian folk do not prioritize literacy in Hebrew. ;) Some fairly important stuff has been written down in that language.

 

I hope very much that my children become passable speakers of several modern languages - but IMO that's a life experience thing, not a formal education thing.

I wanted to, but dh said Latin and Greek were enough already :lol:. We're going to learn French, because I know some already and my father's family is French. German for my mother's people.

[mcconnellboys]

What level of proficiency do you want? If you are only interested in a roots study for vocab purposes, that would look completely different than actually studying the language. I like to see them get through high school level Latin II before stopping, personally. That's what I did with my older son and what I'm shooting for with my younger son. Then he can decide if he will continue with it or stop.

 

My older son also completed Spanish at a third year high school level. Because he entered a private school as a sophomore that had a religion requirement and only a 7 period schedule, he was not able to continue with two languages. I would have preferred that he continue Latin, but at the time, he did not wish to do that. Now, he is going to have to pick it up again for the college major he's interested in, so he's going to have to back track to review the language. Hindsight is perfect.....

 

For my older son, we did some Spanish work from kindergarten on, but there were not the sorts of good programs available then that are out now. He stopped Spanish during seventh and eighth grades in order to concentrate more on Latin. He had started Latin in fifth grade and I was using the Latin Primer/Grammar series, which takes 5 years to complete. During ninth grade, he did BJU's Spanish I (also an outside class), and Latin Grammar II (also an outside class using Jenney's Latin). He did Spanish II and Honors III at his private school.

 

My younger son is also trifling with Greek, but I'm not trying to get him highly proficient in it.

 

Continuing to hs will allow you to focus on languages if that is their area of interest/strength. Memoria Press has out a French program now that I think looks good (French is what I took in college). I'm sure there are others, too.

 

Many colleges now are moving toward a desire to see three or even four years of foreign language in high school. Many are requiring further language work in college, so I tend to think it's a good idea to have languages all the way through high school in order to be fresh for further college studies. Many colleges like to see some sort of SAT II testing for language proficiency if students are studying languages at home....