At what age did your dc "get" carrying?

[Jayne J]

After reading another thread about teaching carrying I began to feel a bit better that my ds doesn't seem to really understand the concept. We use Horizons math and it has carrying in 1st grade. He is aces at addition facts, and "can" do a carrying problem, but I see that he doesn't understand the underlying concept. We've used straws, base ten blocks, lines and boxes, and repeated explanations, but although he knows what to do, he doesn't get the why. Is it maybe just developmental do you think? He is 6.9 and loves math, he understands other new concepts readily and whizzes through. I see other children struggling with this concept at 8 and 9 (on the other thread). Is the concept really that abstract/difficult?

[2squared]

:confused: Good question. My dd got it when we went through it in RightStart Level B for her 1st grade year.

[twoxcell]

Good question my ds has been struggling with the same thing this week. We use horizons also and he is about the same age as your ds. We spent quite awhile today with base ten blocks trying to get him to understand. I think he is getting there.

[MrsMe]

After reading another thread about teaching carrying I began to feel a bit better that my ds doesn't seem to really understand the concept. We use Horizons math and it has carrying in 1st grade. He is aces at addition facts, and "can" do a carrying problem, but I see that he doesn't understand the underlying concept. We've used straws, base ten blocks, lines and boxes, and repeated explanations, but although he knows what to do, he doesn't get the why. Is it maybe just developmental do you think? He is 6.9 and loves math, he understands other new concepts readily and whizzes through. I see other children struggling with this concept at 8 and 9 (on the other thread). Is the concept really that abstract/difficult?

 

Don't worry. I think that's a typical school standards mentality. 1st grade is learning carrying? I'm not saying kids don't get it, but still that seems ridiculously early to me. And for what reason do they need carrying in 1st grade? The problem is that it's a "hurry up and learn it" mentality and I'm not sure why. I say it's readiness. Math is logical and abstract. There is plenty of time for this. 2nd grade covers it as well. Relax. It'll come around again anyway.

 

You have to wonder why programs are moving everything up. Reading is now taught in K instead of 1st, this for math and even some are doing mult and div in 2nd grade. It's hurry up, learn it without really getting down the basics. I hear about this with ps moms; how much they're going to have to work with their first or second grader all summer to learn this stuff. Drives me batty, I'm on a rant here. But yet our college here has to offer remedial math programs because no one has what they need at college level. That's because kids have been pushed through concepts they don't understand too early and nothing is cemented.

 

Anyway, I'm off my rant. And for what it's worth, my dd learned it at 9, because I waited with it. There also was no frustration. Wait and it'll come to them.

[Lara in Colo]

sometimes it helps to not make them carry, just put the whole number down in columns, keeping the 100's, 10's, 1's in the same columns

 

EX:

...25

+ 25

...10

.+40

...50

 

Did this make sense? Did it help?

 

Lara

 

 

It also helps to explain the ones, is only for ones---once it is a ten, it can't live there any more--it has to live next door.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Lara in Colo

[joyfulhomeschooler]

just now in rightstart level B... my son is at the end of first grade. The way right start teaches it with the place value cards and then the abacus is brilliant IMO... much better than having to place all those popsicle sticks together ;-)

[jplain]

More praise for RightStart B. Carrying and place value were very easily grasped by my 6yo, because of the way the concepts were presented.

[blessedmom3]

My son is 6.7 . He also used Horizons 1 ( finished it last month , bye bye forever !) > We started CLE but before we start CLE 200 , I wanted to give him some practice so I bought CLE 109 and 110.

 

He also knew very well how to carry but I just realized a few days ago that he did not understand a thing when I asked him to show me with the base ten blocks

388 + 254 .

 

I pulled out Math U See DVD and asked him to watch it .

I read the CLE TM which explains in the same way as Math u SEE ( I don't know why people say CLE doesn't have conceptual math , now I see it does !)

And I explained him a few times , I built with him a few times .

Then I asked him to show me .

Now he gets it . He even likes to do it :)

 

I highly recommend a Base ten blocks which you can make it yourself if you can't afford to buy one.

[Aloha2U]

My dd got it when we went through it in RightStart Level B for her 1st grade year.

 

:iagree:

 

just now in rightstart level B... my son is at the end of first grade. The way right start teaches it with the place value cards and then the abacus is brilliant IMO... much better than having to place all those popsicle sticks together ;-)

 

:iagree:

 

More praise for RightStart B. Carrying and place value were very easily grasped by my 6yo, because of the way the concepts were presented.

 

:iagree:

 

My ds "got" this at 5.5yo because of the way RS (Level B) presents the concept. I hope to post about it on our blog soon.

[blessedmom3]

Can someone explain how Rightstart explains the concept? You guys made me curious.

 

I use the abacus a lot too but for add. with carrying I prefer the base ten blocks , it's easier to manipulate . I wouldn't have patience with sticks , beans and things like that :)

[Allen Academy]

:iagree:

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

My ds "got" this at 5.5yo because of the way RS (Level B) presents the concept. I hope to post about it on our blog soon.

 

Ditto... Love RS.

[elise1mds]

My DS hasn't had any trouble with it. We're using MUS (Beta). But he's a bit older. He turned 7 back in October, so by the time we got to carrying a few weeks ago, he was almost 7-1/2.

 

We did have an issue with money problems where the dollar and decimal point would completely throw him. Part of it is that he likes to do his math mentally and would get an answer like "85" and couldn't remember where to put the dollar and decimal point... whether it was $8.50 or $0.85. We had to do some extra work on that.

[SilverMoon]

Mine were in third grade, second grade, and first grade. Curriculum choices had nothing to do with it. That's also how naturally mathy they are, in order. :tongue_smilie:

 

The third grade kid simply didn't understand math for a long time. Toward the end of third grade he started getting a little more interested. At the beginning of fourth grade he suddenly launched up to grade level and beyond in about a three month time span. *shrug*

 

The second kid was more mathy, but more of a slow and steady learner in the early years. (This year she's surpassed her older brother in particular areas of math, and finds it much easier than he does.)

 

The first grade when carrying kid is a very mathy kid. He could tell me precisely how many of the little corn tortillas I'd need to make he and his dad the number of quesadillas they wanted, and how many would be left in my stack when I was done cooking them, in kindergarten. This past month I realized he'd taught himself carrying with the pile of Legos he uses for math manipulatives. I've no clue where he got that strong of a mathy knack from. :001_smile:

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

My dd just turned 8. She didnt get it at all when she was 7, we did the base 10 blocks and all, but when she turned 8 (literally a week after) she just understood. It just clicked with her messing with the base 10 blocks (on her own.)

 

 

I think it is just when the little minds are ready, your dc is young! Not even 7 yet. Next year, when you do it, try the blocks again and I bet the light will turn on :D Don't worry mom! Understanding will come! :D

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

You have to wonder why programs are moving everything up. Reading is now taught in K instead of 1st, this for math and even some are doing mult and div in 2nd grade.

 

Singapore starts that at the end of first. My dd got that actually much quicker than carrying and borrowing :001_huh: Go figure.

[Closeacademy]

Around 2nd grade is when carrying/regrouping seems to click. I use the abacus, base 10 blocks and a place value rainbow to help guide them along.:001_smile:

[whitestavern]

Not sure how old my dd was, but my ds just did this yesterday. He's 7 1/2. It took a little bit for him to get it. Saxon uses pennies and dimes to illustrate how to carry. I think it helped to click when I told him it's really the opposite of carrying...when we carry we're putting the extra ones into the tens column; when we borrow we take the ones from the tens column. That seemed to help him a lot.

[snickelfritz]

Yep. Us, too.

 

Singapore starts that at the end of first. My dd got that actually much quicker than carrying and borrowing. Go figure.

 

dd understands the CONCEPT of carrying and can do simple problems and show it with manipulatives or by drawing a tens/ones chart for the problem. But, she gets bogged down and can't do it consistently or mentally. The concept of multiplication and division is much easier for her and she's whizzing through those sections. So, I've skipped around in the math book to delay the carrying for a bit. Singapore is nice in that we can do money, time, multiplication, etc.... and let her brain think on the carrrying for a while.

 

We're going to spend the summer really cementing the addition/subtraction facts and try the carrying/borrowing again in late July..... she turns 7 in June and will be in 2nd next year.

Edited May 1, 2010 by snickelfritz
I'm endlessly unsatisfied with my writing.....

[michelle l]

DS8 was doing it at the end of last year (he would have been newly 8 then) and he seemed to "get it".

 

I will say that finally, after doing MUS, I finally understand regrouping! I've always done it, but now I finally know why. ;)

[EKS]

It sounds to me like he doesn't really understand place value. I'd back up and work on that for a bit first. I think the demo dvd for MUS (free) has a wonderful presentation about how to teach place value to young children on it. Mr Demme uses something called "Decimal Street" to get the point across. Base 10 blocks and then place value disks, especially in combination with place value strips (all available at singaporemath.com) can really help.

 

Something that Singapore and RightStart do is to teach kids to add numbers that require "carrying" mentally first. That way they internalize that double digit (and by extension triple digit and so forth) are not columns of numbers, but single entities that can be broken apart in very specific ways.

 

So, for example, to teach him to do this type of mental addition you would give him the problem 23 + 45.

 

Say "two tens plus four tens is what?"

 

"Six tens"

 

"Three ones (or units) plus five ones is what?"

 

"Eight ones"

 

"Six tens plus eight ones is what?"

 

"Sixty eight."

 

When he's comfortable with this, extend it to numbers requiring regrouping, such as 27 + 48. Same dialogue, two tens plus four tens is six tens, which is sixty. Seven ones plus eight ones is fifteen. Sixty plus fifteen is seventy five.

 

Only when he is comfortable with this do you reintroduce the standard algorithm for addition using manipulatives. Only allow him to do it on paper *after* he is able to clearly and easily explain each step with the manipulatives.

[Karen in CO]

My dd was doing RS B until we got to the carrying lessons. That when RS fell apart for us. There was no way in the world she was going to learn it at 6. She finally learned it sometime after 7. Once it clicked, she knew it. She is VERY mathy and hates to be told HOW to solve a problem. She has to figure out how to do everything herself.

 

I was previously convinced that the right math approach could teach the material. I have since learned that there is a lot more to knowing and teaching math and that development has to be considered, even in mathy kids.

[Jayne J]

When he's comfortable with this, extend it to numbers requiring regrouping, such as 27 + 48. Same dialogue, two tens plus four tens is six tens, which is sixty. Seven ones plus eight ones is fifteen. Sixty plus fifteen is seventy five.

 

Only when he is comfortable with this do you reintroduce the standard algorithm for addition using manipulatives. Only allow him to do it on paper *after* he is able to clearly and easily explain each step with the manipulatives.

 

 

Strangely, ds can already do the mental math with carrying, and he instinctivley does it that way--add tens, add ones, add them all together. He really is very mathy and chats numbers all day long. He'll add my age and his fathers age and subtract his age and on and on and on and do it correctly. It is just when he is actually looking at a written problem that he freezes up a bit. He wants to write the entire ones answer on the bottom, then put the tens in front,--

 

54

+39

813

We've discussed digits vs. numbers, talked about tens and ones (he whips through the straight place value stuff with a yawn). I just can't figure where the disconnect is.

[MangoMama]

Strange...

 

My 11 year old still has trouble.

My 8 year old understands it.

 

:confused1:

[EKS]

Strangely, ds can already do the mental math with carrying, and he instinctivley does it that way--add tens, add ones, add them all together. He really is very mathy and chats numbers all day long. He'll add my age and his fathers age and subtract his age and on and on and on and do it correctly. It is just when he is actually looking at a written problem that he freezes up a bit. He wants to write the entire ones answer on the bottom, then put the tens in front,--

 

54

+39

813

We've discussed digits vs. numbers, talked about tens and ones (he whips through the straight place value stuff with a yawn). I just can't figure where the disconnect is.

 

How about instead of carrying the tens to the top of the tens column, he puts it at the bottom?

[monalisa]

My dd 7 got it quickly in 1st grade, but on the other hand she doesn't have her addition & subtraction facts down cold. I like how BJU teaches it -- they do not call it carrying, but instead call it renaming. They teach it soon after teaching place value and it makes complete sense to me. They rename 10 ones as one ten. I really like how they teach place value too -- with blocks, versus bundles of sticks, bunches of grapes, etc. So you have separate blocks for the ones, sticks of 10 for the tens, squares of 100 for the hundreds, etc. I think this is similar to how MUS does it. I think that teaching place value this way made it easy for dd to get "carrying" or renaming.