need info sources on Ezzo

[T'smom]

I just learned that our church is going to be offering Ezzo-based parenting classes in the fall and I would like to present the pastoral staff with some information that will hopefully make them rethink this. Can anyone help me out here? I have lots of info from ezzo.info but would like more sources. I know I've read in multiple places that his daughters are estranged from him- I'd like something that confirms that. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks.

**I'm not really interested in debate here, just some sources**

[forty-two]

I don't know what denomination you are, but I wrote a theological critique of "the Bible mandates spanking" position, that Ezzo and others take, from a Lutheran perspective a few years back: The Rod is a Means of Grace (it includes Ezzo-specific quotes and analysis). My dh is a pastor, and - at least among Lutheran pastors - showing how a planned program or class contradicts the teachings of the church is the fastest way to get them to reconsider.

[Laurie4b]

Google Ezzo estranged daughters, etc. You'll find everything you need. I believe Christianity Today did an article on Ezzo's years ago. John McArthur's church ex-communicated them.

 

Is your pastor young?

[Quickbeam]

There is also a forum called gentlechristianmothers where you can get info. on the Ezzos.

 

Good luck. Have you heard of Danny Silk? His program is called "Loving Your Kids On Purpose" and I'm getting a lot out of it.

[SonshineLearner]

I don't think you have to disapprove of spanking, to not want Ezzo's at your church... I don't think that's the easiest way to have the seminar... not held. I believe that spanking can be a useful tool in the box, and can't stand their position... or books...

:)

[SonshineLearner]

I don't think you have to disapprove of spanking, to not want Ezzo's at your church... I don't think that's the easiest way to have the seminar... not held. I believe that spanking can be a useful tool in the box, and can't stand their position... or books...

:)

[Jugglin'5]

I don't think you have to disapprove of spanking, to not want Ezzo's at your church... I don't think that's the easiest way to have the seminar... not held. I believe that spanking can be a useful tool in the box, and can't stand their position... or books...

:)

 

:iagree: They have been excommunicated from more than one church, because he was never willing to listen to any counsel. I went through one of the classes ages ago, and while there was a thing or two that I got out of it, there was a creepy factor in it that made me :001_huh:.

[forty-two]

I don't think you have to disapprove of spanking, to not want Ezzo's at your church... I don't think that's the easiest way to have the seminar... not held. I believe that spanking can be a useful tool in the box, and can't stand their position... or books...

:)

There is a big, big difference b/w spanking as one tool among many, and spanking as *the* Biblically mandated discipline method. I have no theological issue with the former, even though I personally don't spank. But the latter is just wrong, theologically speaking, and leads to bad doctrine.

 

And my dh, at least (I just asked him), would much prefer to hear theological objections to a planned program rather than objections based on the character of the program writer. Is a program worthy just because it was written by a genuinely nice person? Or is it worthy because it teaches correct doctrine, however flawed its creator?

[Ellie]

Just to let you know how strongly I feel about the Ezzos: If I gave all the anti-Ezzo material I have to my church and they decided to continue with Ezzo anyway, I would leave the church.

 

These articles don't confirm that the Ezzos' dd are estranged; however, they do document the dangers and errors of the Ezzos' methods. Maybe they'll help.

 

Rebecca Prewitt's Family Issues page--many articles about Growing Families International (Ezzo)

 

"Ezzo" search results on "Breastfeeding.com"

 

FresnoFamily: Dangers of Ezzo

 

Article: "AAP Condemns Ezzos' Babywise" (Babywise is the "secular" version)

[KnitWit]

Here's a link to a timeline, which has two parts.

 

http://www.ezzo.info/Timeline/timeline1.htm

 

That links to part 1. There are various links there to other things that back up what is on the timeline. I'd give them that and encourage them to do their research.

[texasmama]

God bless you for doing this and hopefully your church is just operating out of ignorance. Their methods go against mainstream medical advice for promoting successful breastfeeding and when I took the class, the videos advocated letting a three week old baby cry it out at night because the parents didn't want to feed the baby at night. I was taught to hit my nine month old baby on the hand if she "disobeyed" and touched something that I told her not to. Their method caused so much hurt to me and my first child. Thankfully, I chose differently for the three which followed and have no regrets.

 

I'm sorry that this is not helpful information for you, but I wanted to offer my support to you. My heart still hurts almost 15 years later from what my first baby and I went through and I hope others can be spared that.

[Mrs Mungo]

Church leaders who have voiced concerns over the practices regarding the Ezzos: http://www.ezzo.info/Rein/prominent.htm

 

About their church disavowing them: http://www.ezzo.info/LHEF/lhef_nov_2000.htm

[forty-two]

There are various links there to other things that back up what is on the timeline. I'd give them that and encourage them to do their research.

 

This is why is I said that presenting theological objections (should that be an available option) is the easiest, fastest way (NOT the *only* way) to persuade pastors.

 

Without them, your main argument rests on the sheer *amount* of the evidence against the practical aspects of his program and against his character. So much of it is anecdotal or circumstantial, and individually isn't much more than one person's opinion - and the pro-Ezzo crowd has plenty of pro opinions to counter with. It's the staggering amount of anecdotal and circumstantial evidence, and the pattern that emerges when considered as a whole, that gives the non-theological arguments weight - but it is difficult to present this evidence in a way that is both concise yet clearly demonstrates just how far-ranging it is.

 

Expecting them to do their own research to validate *your* argument is not a great move if you want to succeed in changing their minds; you have to sufficiently convince them you have a real point first - and that is hard to do without overwhelming them with tons of data they have no time to read. It can be done - but it is a lot harder.

 

ETA: I do wish you the greatest success here - Ezzo is horrible, and even if you don't have theological objections to what he teaches, there are much better sources to hear it from. But it is easiest to persuade when both sides are coming from the same place - and the only common foundation between church members that you can be positive you share is your common faith, as set forth in your church's doctrine.

Edited April 26, 2010 by forty-two

[T'smom]

Thanks for the info so far. This is really stressing me out. I am not comfortable with confrontation at all, but really feel like this has to be done. I'm in a bible study for moms and it's led by the pastor's wife. Every single week she mentions that she LOVES Ezzo. (I've been attending for about 12 weeks) This is accompanied by an example of something that he has said that is totally okay- like having your kids touch your arm to let you know they need you when you're talking to another adult instead of verbally interrupting you. There's nothing wrong with that! So, we're talking about what book we're going to do next and someone says "well, what about that Ezzo guy that you're always talking about" She says "that won't work because his books are segregated by age" then she adds "besides, the church is going to be offering his parenting classes next fall". I just about had a heart attack. I didn't feel like I could say anything in front of everyone and there is always, ALWAYS, a group of people around her. We haven't lived here long and have only been attending this church for about 5 months. We're not members, we have no history or standing or anything. We don't really know anyone. I have her email address and was going to write to her, but my mom (who is a pastor's wife) said I should go straight to the pastor with my concerns. Honestly, when I told my mom about this, I thought she was going to drag me down to the church to talk to him right that second. But I kindof feel like since the info I have was not an official announcement in the bulletin or anything, that I should bring it up with the pastor's wife because that is who I heard it from....

I know I'm rambling....but any advice on handling this very tactfully would be much appreciated.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

http://ezzo.info/

[BikeBookBread]

:grouphug: It's hard to bring this kind of stuff up...but don't let it slide. I agree with the PP about using theological concerns if you speak to your Pastor. The link that Mrs. Mungo posted is loaded with well-respected pastors and Christian leaders of every denomination. I think I would start there. Here's another link: http://www.tulipgirl.com/index.php/category/gfi-ezzo-babywise/

[Caraway]

I would go directly to the pastor, so that you are not attacking a person's parenting directly.

 

I understand not wanting the confrontation. However you could be saving a child's life. Do not back down, this IS important.

[Tracy in Ky]

Hank Hannegraff had an article in his Christian Reasearch Journal several years ago. If you go to his site, you might be able to bring it up. It think the website is equip.org

[Starr]

I'm don't have the info you are looking for but I am praying for you. :grouphug:

[Garga]

I agree with your mom that emailing won't work.

 

If you go, see if you can meet with the pastor and his wife. Let them know that you aren't doing this to cause trouble or try to control them. Tell them you understand that you're the outsider, and you don't want to cause waves, but you'd just like to discuss this with them.

 

Tell them that they are free to make their own decision (as they are) but that a number of Christian people have serious misgivings about the Ezzos, so they should be aware of that before beginning the class. Warn them that they may experience repercussions (as the church leaders) since so many people are against what the Ezzos teach.

 

You will want to acknowledge that a lot of the info the Ezzos give is good, (such as touching the parent's arm, instead of interrupting), but that there are some issues that are not scriptural. They will want to consider that carefully before they allow non-scriptural ideas into the church. You'll need to have a list of the non-scriptural issues.

 

You don't want to go in with guns blazing. You want to go in with the attitude that you don't want the church inadvertently being led astray. It's very possible that they simply don't know. If they don't know, then going in all angry won't help. Go in with a humble attitude of trying to support the pastor and show them a possible pothole in the road ahead.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Garga

[Chris in VA]

Just wanted to say that I agree with you going to the pastor. My husband will defend me (he's a priest) and is protective of me, but if I were spouting doctrinal errors or causing upset in the parish, he would want to address it kindly and quickly with me.

So, I 'd say you could go to the pastor and just start by saying you have enjoyed his wife's class, but you were troubled by something she said, and wanted to confirm it--Ask if the church plans on offering the Ezzo class first. Then if he says yes, tell him your concerns. Do it in a spirit of humility, and do not give him the impression that you think he's an idiot for considering it, iykwim. But be clear and rational, and give him your websites--write them down and give them to him so he can look them up.

You will need to go to the wife, too--make sure you are not out of fellowship with her. Believe me, I would vastly prefer someone come up to me and talk instead of talking about me to someone else--but in this case, do both.