CC: Are earthquakes a result of a fallen earth, i.e. sin?

[TravelingChris]

Let me start out by saying I don't believe this. I think we have earthquakes as one of the many natural processes brought about God to give us a great Earth to live on. However, I thought I heard my pastor praying a prayer last week saying something like the idea that earthquakes are a result of sin or our sin nature or something like that. My dh, who was in church at the same time, didn't hear it that way but I don't know if he was paying attention. (I was late coming in.)

 

So does anyone teach this? Is this part of the Young Earth idea or of some other teaching? I am very confused.

[Mejane]

Unless one believes that God "points and shoots", earthquakes are merely a result of seismic activity. Although it seems like there has been a pattern lately, scientists don't believe there is a connection between the recent ones. See this short article:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/science/03/04/fact.check.earthquakes/

[VaKim]

Romans 8

20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope

 

21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

 

22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

[Cricket]

Romans 8

20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope

 

21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

 

22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

 

I can't imagine earthquakes *not* being a result of a fallen earth. Earthquakes causing death and destruction isn't my idea of a perfect world.

[TravelingChris]

I don't understand what Romans 8 has to do with my question. I am not trying to be snarky, but I just don't get it.

 

Earthquakes help create mountains which are highly praised as works of God's creative nature in the Bible. Earthquakes help us get gems which are also praised as great treasures in the Bible.

 

I don't like the death that happens in earthquakes but I know that God's ways are not our ways and He has a plan.

[Parrothead]

There are those people that believe earthquakes will come with more frequency and intensity just before end times. I believe they are getting their idea from the Book of Revelation. Check chapters 10 or 11. Or maybe some one can give specific chapter/verses.

[Splungeman]

Considering earthquakes have been going on for all of recorded history, I don't see these recent earthquakes as anything but business as usual. As for "why" they happen. Well...they happen because the earth is a huge rock with a molten core. Earthquakes happen, whether or not the people affected by them are evil and fallen or not. If that were the case, I'd wonder why a fissure hadn't opened up beneath Osama Bin Laden by now.

 

After the tsunami in the Indian Ocean, I heard a radio story where they were asking people of different denominations how they reconcile such an event with their faith. My favorite answer was the Jewish Rabbi's answer: "God does not micromanage the universe."

[asta]

You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

 

 

:auto:

 

 

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[Old Dominion Heather]

The point-and-shoot mentality seems more in line with the Greek/Roman Gods. Hades is getting a bit restless about Persephone heading back to the surface.

[LibraryLover]

wrong thread

Edited March 7, 2010 by LibraryLover

[lionfamily1999]

I think earthquakes are all a part of the God's plan, just another one of those wonderful systems (like the seasons or weather in general).

 

I wil say, agreeing with a pp, that the death and destruction that result are not from God, but are the result of the fall.

[Parrothead]

I think earthquakes are all a part of the God's plan, just another one of those wonderful systems (like the seasons or weather in general).

 

I wil say, agreeing with a pp, that the death and destruction that result are not from God, but are the result of the fall.

Personally I think death and destruction are the result of people building and living on known fault lines.

 

God helps those (they don't die in an earthquake) who help themselves(because they chose not to build on a known fault line).

[Daisy]

YEC believe that earthquakes and natural disasters are either a result of the earth being cursed after the fall or a result of the global flood (waters of the deep being opened up). They do not believe that every single earthquake that happens NOW is God's divine retribution against a particular set of people.

[stripe]

I don't understand the idea that only sinners are punished on earth, given that there's a pretty strong record of very good people being tested -- Job being the foremost example that springs to mind from the Bible, but he's definitely not the only one.

[Daisy]

I don't understand the idea that only sinners are punished on earth, given that there's a pretty strong record of very good people being tested -- Job being the foremost example that springs to mind from the Bible, but he's definitely not the only one.

 

:iagree:

 

For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and l sends rain on the just and on the unjust. Matt 5:45

[Heather in Neverland]

YEC believe that earthquakes and natural disasters are either a result of the earth being cursed after the fall or a result of the global flood (waters of the deep being opened up). They do not believe that every single earthquake that happens NOW is God's divine retribution against a particular set of people.

 

:iagree:

[lionfamily1999]

Personally I think death and destruction are the result of people building and living on known fault lines.

 

God helps those (they don't die in an earthquake) who help themselves(because they chose not to build on a known fault line).

:iagree: I meant that death/destruction themselves are a result of the fall. I was trying to figure out how to say that WE are the reasons for an uprising in the death/destruction numbers, because we WOULD choose to live in dangerous places, but that's such a can of worms.

[lionfamily1999]

I don't understand the idea that only sinners are punished on earth, given that there's a pretty strong record of very good people being tested -- Job being the foremost example that springs to mind from the Bible, but he's definitely not the only one.

Well, we're all sinners. I missed whatever post said it was only sinners, although I agree with that, simply because we're all sinners.

[HSMom2One]

There are those people that believe earthquakes will come with more frequency and intensity just before end times. I believe they are getting their idea from the Book of Revelation. Check chapters 10 or 11. Or maybe some one can give specific chapter/verses.

 

It is in Matthew 24, in the words of Jesus Himself regarding His second coming. In verses 6-8 of that chapter He says,

 

"You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains."

 

For those that study Bible prophecy intently, it is quite noticeable that there has been a huge increase in earthquake activities during the past couple of years. There is also a great deal of pestilence on the earth, and the events in the Middle East are all happening as prophesied in the Book of Daniel and in Revelation as well. Many Christians believe that we are indeed living in the last days before Christ's return.

 

If anyone is interested in a website link or two that goes deeper into these subjects, pm me and I'll send it to you.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I'm with those who believe it is just part of the natural processes that have been going on since the beginning of time. I don't believe an earthquake is any more "bad" than any other natural process like erosion, hurricanes, tsunamis, blizzards, or avalanches. We call them bad because we don't like them in lieu of the human damage and destruction, but I seriously doubt a never changing earth would support life.

 

When there is death and destruction, it is often because of human stubbornness and stupidity, or just plain ignorance, not sin. Build your home in a flood zone, on the side of a volcano, or near a fault line and what do you expect?

 

I also believe God does not micromanage the Earth, and people are fallen not the planet.

 

I'm thinking if God was zapping people because of sin, we would be seeing a lot more seismic activity. :-P

[Lindy]

 

This book addresses your questions. Randy Alcorn is thorough in his explanation of sin and evil in our world and has given me tons of food for thought.

[TravelingChris]

Well, can I ask another question for YE people or anyone who knows about their beliefs? So if earthquakes are a result of the flood, does it make everything having to do with geology bad? I mean our mountains are as a result of uplifting (earthquakes), and volcanoes. Our diamonds and many other minerals and gems are available to us as humans because of the earth's movements (i.e. earthquakes are part of that). I am just not quite understanding the concept. I find the info everyone is giving me very helpful. I just don't like being in the dark.

 

We became members of this church and neither in the membership classes, anything in our interview with the elders, or anything on the denominational page said anything about the age of the earth or whether you had to be a YE person. I don't know whether we do but they did know my dh's profession and so I would have thought someone would have asked us this if it was a necessary belief. (DH is a phD physicist and almost all physicists are Old Earth believers).

[lionfamily1999]

Even bad things happen to the glory of God, we're just to small to understand it most of the time ;)

[Daisy]

I'm not sure why something being a result of the global flood would have to be labeled "bad"? Surely beautiful amazing things have been brought forth in this world out of disaster. Beauty in ashes and all that.

[FO4UR]

I believe that earthquakes/hurricanes/tornadoes, etc.... are a result of general sin, a fallen world. I do NOT think God is using a "point and shoot" technique...I don't think Haiti or Chili *deserved* the earthquakes iow (not anymore than I deserve them anyway...;)).

 

God is a God of restoration. He allows bad things to happen, but never wastes our suffering so long as we are willing to see it. This goes for our personal lives as well as humankind as a whole, I think. So it isn't a great question as to how God would make something Good (the pleasant aspects of the Earth) from the something Bad ( earthquakes and other storms). That's completely inline with His character.

 

I don't think a wise pastors would bully a congregant into believing YE or OE. It shouldn't be an issue that divides Christian Fellowship imHo.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

When I used to read a lot of YE material, it seemed to me that a great deal, if not most, secular and old earth geology was dismissed as atheistic or deluded.

[lionfamily1999]

I'm not sure why something being a result of the global flood would have to be labeled "bad"? Surely beautiful amazing things have been brought forth in this world out of disaster. Beauty in ashes and all that.

I'm on a roll with not saying what I mean today ;)

 

When I said "bad" thing happen to the Glory of God, what I meant was that things that seem really bad or unfair today are, in reality, all a part of God's plan and work to His will. Meaning, they aren't actually bad, it's our smallness that makes it seem that way, because we can't see the grand scheme of things.

 

Hopefully that's slightly more clear :p

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm with those who believe it is just part of the natural processes that have been going on since the beginning of time. I don't believe an earthquake is any more "bad" than any other natural process like erosion, hurricanes, tsunamis, blizzards, or avalanches. We call them bad because we don't like them in lieu of the human damage and destruction, but I seriously doubt a never changing earth would support life.

 

When there is death and destruction, it is often because of human stubbornness and stupidity, or just plain ignorance, not sin. Build your home in a flood zone, on the side of a volcano, or near a fault line and what do you expect?

 

I also believe God does not micromanage the Earth, and people are fallen not the planet.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm thinking if God was zapping people because of sin, we would be seeing a lot more seismic activity. :-P

:lol: and another one for asta. Edited March 5, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[TravelingChris]

Okay I guess I understand the YE viewpoint though I disagree with it. On looking up the position of my denominitian , I have found that while the official position is no position, some of the areas have come out stating a YE position as a requirement for office. Now I just have to see if one of those is mine- I wouldn't think so since we are in a very diverse area, but just need to check. I don't have a particular problem with someone leading me in worship who is a YE and probably have had them before. Just like I know that many ministers aren't particularly gifted in math, I figure many of them aren't particularly knowledgeble about science and that is fine. I am certainly not particularly knowledgeable about the Bible although I have read it. We al have our different gifts and ideas. I do think I would be uncomfortable being in a church where I had to keep hidden my beliefs about this if it ever came up (sort of like the thread about exclusive home schooling groups).

[Daisy]

Okay I guess I understand the YE viewpoint though I disagree with it. On looking up the position of my denominitian , I have found that while the official position is no position, some of the areas have come out stating a YE position as a requirement for office. Now I just have to see if one of those is mine- I wouldn't think so since we are in a very diverse area, but just need to check. I don't have a particular problem with someone leading me in worship who is a YE and probably have had them before. Just like I know that many ministers aren't particularly gifted in math, I figure many of them aren't particularly knowledgeble about science and that is fine. I am certainly not particularly knowledgeable about the Bible although I have read it. We al have our different gifts and ideas. I do think I would be uncomfortable being in a church where I had to keep hidden my beliefs about this if it ever came up (sort of like the thread about exclusive home schooling groups).

 

I've never known of a church that made YE views a requirement for leadership. Though many denominations have as part of their SOF a belief in the literal word of God, even THAT statement doesn't usually include or mandate a belief in YE viewpoint. Many fine Christians believe in theistic evolution and/or old earth viewpoints.

 

I would find that disturbing actually, since YE/OE/Evolution is absolutely NOT a major church doctrine.

[Mrs Mungo]

I've never known of a church that made YE views a requirement for leadership. Though many denominations have as part of their SOF a belief in the literal word of God, even THAT statement doesn't usually include or mandate a belief in YE viewpoint. Many fine Christians believe in theistic evolution and/or old earth viewpoints.

 

I've been part of *many* churches that have a literal 7 day earth statement in their beliefs or SOF.

 

my current church includes this among their beliefs:

We believe that originally, mankind was created by God in the process of a literal seven day creation period...

 

our last church had a more inclusive statement:

God sovereignly created the world out of nothing, so that His creation, while wholly dependent upon Him, neither comprises part of God, nor conditions His essential perfection.

 

They are both non-denominational evangelical churches.

[Daisy]

Wow, even the super conservative Pentecostal church I grew up in, didn't have that as part of their SOF. They had it in their denominational position papers but it wasn't a "fundamental truth" of the church.

 

Talk about majoring on the minors.

[HRAAB]

My understanding is that death, suffering, illness, natural catastrophes (earthquakes...) all a result of original sin? Prior to the fall, the earth was in harmony: no death, illness, earthquakes. There was harmony before the fall, after harmony was lost.

 

This is my understanding from a Christian pov, not what I believe.

[TravelingChris]

"My understanding is that death, suffering, illness, natural catastrophes (earthquakes...) all a result of original sin? Prior to the fall, the earth was in harmony: no death, illness, earthquakes. There was harmony before the fall, after harmony was lost.

 

This is my understanding from a Christian pov, not what I believe."

 

Well I guess it some Christian's view and maybe in some places, most Christian;s view. It isn't mine and I consider myself a fairly conservative Christian. By that I mean, I am for traditional marriage, for Biblical teaching, etc, etc. But we are a fairly scientific family and don't hold with young earth views nor with the idea that no death occurred before man since we do believe that dinosaurs died out before humans. I do remember one homeschooling mom being totally shocked that we weren't young earthers. Apparently she thought all Christian homeschoolers were. It was strange since that group included Catholic homeschoolers who I think are usually Old Earth believers.

[Parrothead]

"My understanding is that death, suffering, illness, natural catastrophes (earthquakes...) all a result of original sin? Prior to the fall, the earth was in harmony: no death, illness, earthquakes. There was harmony before the fall, after harmony was lost.

 

This is my understanding from a Christian pov, not what I believe."

 

Well I guess it some Christian's view and maybe in some places, most Christian;s view. It isn't mine and I consider myself a fairly conservative Christian. By that I mean, I am for traditional marriage, for Biblical teaching, etc, etc. But we are a fairly scientific family and don't hold with young earth views nor with the idea that no death occurred before man since we do believe that dinosaurs died out before humans. I do remember one homeschooling mom being totally shocked that we weren't young earthers. Apparently she thought all Christian homeschoolers were. It was strange since that group included Catholic homeschoolers who I think are usually Old Earth believers.

I did not know that there was a debate on old/young Earth until I came to these boards. Then come to find out there are both in the Catholic faith. Same as there are those Catholics that believe God guided evolution. There is no specific doctrine or dogma on this in the Catholic church. Sounds like the same can be said for some Protestant churches, but not for others.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

it is quite noticeable that there has been a huge increase in earthquake activities during the past couple of years.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

Has there been an increase in earthquake activity? Or has there been an increase in communications and media which means that earthquakes are more reported in worldwide markets?

 

Chile was a huge earthquake and Haiti caused much devestation in an area with little reserves for such things. But for some context, the 1923 Great Kanto Earthquake (Tokyo area) was an 8.3 that killed over 100,000 and devastated Tokyo, Yokohama and surrounding areas. The 1906 San Francisco Earthquake was incredibly strong. (In both of these major earthquakes much of the damage was from the resulting fires.)

[HSMom2One]

Has there been an increase in earthquake activity? Or has there been an increase in communications and media which means that earthquakes are more reported in worldwide markets?

 

Chile was a huge earthquake and Haiti caused much devestation in an area with little reserves for such things. But for some context, the 1923 Great Kanto Earthquake (Tokyo area) was an 8.3 that killed over 100,000 and devastated Tokyo, Yokohama and surrounding areas. The 1906 San Francisco Earthquake was incredibly strong. (In both of these major earthquakes much of the damage was from the resulting fires.)

 

I'm sure we could all pull out various research results to prove our individual points. Here is one that I've looked at that only goes up to 2009, obviously leaving out the more recent Haiti and Chile earthquakes, and others:

DATES FROM & TO PERIOD NO. EARTHQUAKES (Mag. > 6.99)

--------------------------- ----------- ------------------------------

1863 to 1900 incl 38 yrs 12

1901 to 1938 incl 38 yrs 53 Reference list 1901 to 1938

1939 to 1976 incl 38 yrs 71 Reference list 1939 to 1976

1977 to 2014 incl * 38 yrs 144 (to Sept. 2009) predict >180 in total. Reference list 1977 to date

* Although periods are shown up to 2014, this report was initially written in 2006. Therefore the final period (from 1977) will be updated as required until the end of 2014. In the meantime a predicted total is shown.

The earthquake (SW off coast of American Samoa) on 29th September 2009 is the last included in these numbers.

Apart from the "long-term" trends shown above, which show an ongoing persistent increase, it is perhaps more stark to record that earthquakes across the planet show a marked increase in activity since 1997. There are more major earthquakes occurring now, and this on an ever more frequent basis.

 

(Source: http://research.dlindquist.com/quake/)

--------------------------

 

Actually, I don't weigh my opinion or belief this subject solely on earthquake frequency alone. According to the Matthew 24 passage, there are other signs that must be evident as well, and they do seem to all point toward the soon return of Christ.

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm sure we could all pull out various research results to prove our individual points. Here is one that I've looked at that only goes up to 2009, obviously leaving out the more recent Haiti and Chile earthquakes, and others:

 

 

Hmm, I guess we could. I don't disagree that each day brings us a step closer to the second coming, merely on how long a road that is.

 

And I do find other sites, both governmental and Christian that show sharply different trends in frequency.

 

 

Was there a significance to the 38 year periods in the table you cited? It seems that the first period goes back to before the establishment of the early seismic detection networks.