FO4UR Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 What would it look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klmama Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 For what ages? For my kindergartner, I would set out projects on different days or weeks: leaves with various types of veins for leaf rubbings and viewing through magnifying glass, magnets, measuring cups and sand/water/etc., open boxes with rubber bands for practicing how vibration produces sound, maybe a candy thermometer with different temp water in containers, kid-friendly balance scale with things to weigh, etc. For my older dc, I would set up things related to the topics in their science books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 In an ideal world it would have its own sink. The deep, utility kind like you'd have in a laundry room or utility room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satori Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) I'm working on a science corner, so I'm very interested to hear what people say. Mine is for a 5 year old. So far I've got a desk with magnifying glasses, pens, and little trays on it. Right next to that is a shelf that holds our science experiment books. There are two bins to hold other things, but right now it's empty. The floor is washable, and I put up a cool sign in the area. :) Right around the corner is our craft kitchen which has all the measuring cups, thermometers, etc... Large double sink, fridge, stove/oven, normal kitchen stuff. A scale has been ordered and will arrive this afternoon. I'd love a microscope, but might wait until she's a little older unless I can find a high quality one built for younger kids. Definitely need more ideas myself! Here it is getting started... We have a portable large play sink too from Step One, I forgot. Edited December 18, 2009 by Satori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I would like a deep shelf system to hold on-going projects: sometimes you start an experiment and then it just needs to *sit* somewhere for a while and you don't want it cluttering up your table. Other thoughts: -somewhere to store things brought home from nature walks (pinecones, leaves etc.) -small terrarium for observing animals like tadpoles/frogs, cool insects, etc. -nice colored pencils and paper for doing detailed drawings -shelves for science-themed books, curriculum, science notebooks -bins for supplies like magnets, building materials, droppers and containers, etc. -nice scale and microscope -posters covering what we are learning (we are in life science now so I would love to have a poster of the animal kingdom classification and another with the human body) -lots of sunlight for experiments that require it. -floor and surfaces that are easy to clean. :D Wish I could do this in *my* house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Keep the ideas coming!:D My dc are (almost)7, 4, and 3....but I'm always forward thinking so I want ideas for pre-K through older elementary. I was thinking of putting this science corner in the HS room/playroom...but maybe the utility room would be better??? It's right next door to the HS room, is huge, has HUGE sinks. The only down side is it's in the basement, so not much natural light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Keep the ideas coming!:D My dc are (almost)7, 4, and 3....but I'm always forward thinking so I want ideas for pre-K through older elementary. I was thinking of putting this science corner in the HS room/playroom...but maybe the utility room would be better??? It's right next door to the HS room, is huge, has HUGE sinks. The only down side is it's in the basement, so not much natural light. That's the room. The utility room with the sinks. Add some worktables (cheaply? purchased used restaurant "prep" table made of stainless steel seem ideal). Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 This is a really neat thread I hope more people answer. In June I am moving to my parents house because they are building one and low and behold I am gonna be lucky on the room area cause I actually will have 2 rooms that are connected that I plan on turning into my homeschool rooms. So I would totally love to make actual area. Right now it is all kinda everywhere. Her art/ writing area is in my living room LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranberry Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Now the most important question is how can I implement something like this with a toddler running amuk? I really need to do something different for sciency stuff starting in January and this sounds like a great idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 If you can have a sink in this corner, that would be the first thing! Shelves, a counter with an indestructible surface, and also a table off to the side. Good lighting too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 A good sturdy museum (ala Mudpies to Magnets) for the dcs to fill. Plenty of high shelves for older dcs projects. One good window, with some direct sunlight time, for projects that need direct light. One good, sealing, closet and lots and lots of room to spread things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makita Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 We use a small curio cabinet to display 'nature discoveries' (pine cones, leaves, seashells, bones, feathers, rocks, etc.) The bottom is a cupboard where we store all our field guides along with magnifying lenses, scopes, etc. It works really well and looks like a mini-natural history museum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 We use a small curio cabinet to display 'nature discoveries' (pine cones, leaves, seashells, bones, feathers, rocks, etc.) The bottom is a cupboard where we store all our field guides along with magnifying lenses, scopes, etc. It works really well and looks like a mini-natural history museum. I would love to have sturdy square wooden shelves with all sorts of different shaped and sized cubbies to put everything in. Our house is small, though, and it's terribly difficult to find furniture big enough to fill its purpose and small enough to fit :p Your arrangement sounds very nice, I bet the kids love having their things under glass. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makita Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 The cabinet is small ... only 18" wide, 12" deep and approx. 5 feet tall. It was originally used for my doll collection when I was a little girl (okay - I was in high school)... we've re-purposed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 The cabinet is small ... only 18" wide, 12" deep and approx. 5 feet tall. It was originally used for my doll collection when I was a little girl (okay - I was in high school)... we've re-purposed it. :lol:I still have my dolls....:lol:.....for umm...dd, that's right - for dd.:tongue_smilie: I love the curio idea. My dc would love having "specimen" to display in their own mini-museum. I wonder if I could play this off as a Christmas gift somehow???:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoVanGogh Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I would love lots of windows so we could set up a nice bird feeding station and bird bath outside. A basket with bird id book, binoculars and nature journal supplies (watercolors, colored pencils, etc.) A big sturdy table for: microscope, lope, magnifying glass, telescope collector's display boxes magnets terrarium an aquarium, set up as a temporary home for lizards, bugs, etc. every id book you can imagine - clouds, butterflies, caterpillars, snakes, etc. camera jars of sea shells, acorns, rocks One thing that I do have that I love -- I bought a wire hanger w/suction cups at a teacher supply store years ago. I have it up on our kitchen window with bird flashcards. I rotate out what flashcards are up so we can focus on learning four different birds at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotsofpumpkins Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Now the most important question is how can I implement something like this with a toddler running amuk? "Science corner" would not work here. We can't leave ANYTHING out. When the children finish they even have to fold up their chairs (metal folding chairs) and move them away from the table. Otherwise, the 15-month-old climbs up onto the table and gets into everything. I'm enjoying reading all the ideas though. Maybe in a year or so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 What would it look like? I so wish I could keep the science stuff to a corner. My science corner would be different for each of my two science-minded children. I believe science education is at its strongest when children develop a hobby. My nine-year-old would have a raised countertop worktable built in between two floor to ceiling stacks of smallish, clear drawers. The countertop worktable would be raised so that little siblings could not reach the dangerous stuff upon it. I'd get a barstool for my child to sit at the raised table. There would be intense task lighting, ideally a flexible lamp that comes out of the wall. In the clear drawers that flank the table, there would be a variety of electronic and metal components and tools. On the wall behind the counter, there would be recessed niches for half-complete models, and, of course, a couple of outlets. (My nine-year-old tends towards the miniature, always drawing and designing teeny things, so niches would suffice to hold the projects.) My six-year-old would have a supersturdy custom made bookcase type structure with rows of various critters: fish, mice, carnivorous plants, a snake, a tarantula. One shelf would contain supplies, another, reference books and animal behavior experiment guides. Right nearby there'd be a cozy chair for him to sit and observe his critters. On that chair, I'd keep a lapdesk that opens up to store colored pencils and a notebook, so he could draw his babies all day long if he wanted to so so. I'd set up a table with a microscope, too, and keep blank slides available so he could look closely at things that fall of his critters and things he finds outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 "Science corner" would not work here. We can't leave ANYTHING out. When the children finish they even have to fold up their chairs (metal folding chairs) and move them away from the table. Otherwise, the 15-month-old climbs up onto the table and gets into everything. I'm enjoying reading all the ideas though. Maybe in a year or so... I have been wanting to do this for a LONG time - ds3 is just now to the point where we can set up something...as long as there is nothing poisonous or sharp....and I'm still thinking about gating it off;) My science corner would be different for each of my two science-minded children. I believe science education is at its strongest when children develop a hobby. Fantastic thoughts! Focusing on the individual interests...I'm going to think about how I can do that for each of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 The cabinet is small ... only 18" wide, 12" deep and approx. 5 feet tall. It was originally used for my doll collection when I was a little girl (okay - I was in high school)... we've re-purposed it. That is such a good idea. Maybe I'll take some tours of the local salvages... Thank you, I really think I could maybe do this! :lol:I still have my dolls....:lol:.....for umm...dd, that's right - for dd.:tongue_smilie: I love the curio idea. My dc would love having "specimen" to display in their own mini-museum. I wonder if I could play this off as a Christmas gift somehow???:D Yeah, that's why I've kept so many of my dolls too :p Of course, dd never was into dolls, so I've just continued to keep them for myself (or later dds). "Science corner" would not work here. We can't leave ANYTHING out. When the children finish they even have to fold up their chairs (metal folding chairs) and move them away from the table. Otherwise, the 15-month-old climbs up onto the table and gets into everything. I'm enjoying reading all the ideas though. Maybe in a year or so... I thought I was the only one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alte Veste Academy Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 (edited) OK, I'm begging you all to refrain from mocking me. Please. :tongue_smilie: This is my dream list. I've been jotting things down for a very long time. A very, very long time. Some of the info I had from my years working as a demonstrator/field trip instructor/camp-in coordinator in a science museum. We do NOT, I repeat NOT own all of these items because I am not (quite) that insane. :lol: However, looking at the list, you will probably be very surprised by how much you already own that you could throw in the science area. You can also see if hubby is agreeable to donating items from the garage. My dad actually gave us a lot of old items that he has in triplicate like voltimeters and other interesting what-nots and do-dads that older men of great tinkeriness seem to amass in vast quantities. :D My science center is on the patio. We live in TX so it's not a problem except on the harshest winter days. The patio is perfect because who cares about a mess and the "sink" is a bucket. We even have a triple sink because we have three buckets. In the summer, of course we use the pool as a sink. ;) Plenty of light too. When I get it in better order after the holidays, maybe we can start a new thread or revive this one and post pictures. (I'll be working on my art area also.) General Science: Calculators Rulers Scissors Triple Beam Balance Electronic Balance Spring Scales Weight and Mass set Stopwatches Calipers/C-Clamps Magnifiers Lab Charts/Posters Medicine Droppers Funnels Aluminum Foil/Plastic Wrap Foil Pans Paper Plates and Cups Plastic Spoons/Knives Paper Towel/Shop Towels Popsicle Sticks/Toothpicks Straws Ziploc Bags Q-Tips Cotton Balls Gauze Egg Cartons Tape Measure/Ruler Meter and Yard Sticks Styrofoam Corks Flashlight Plastic Bins Notebooks Velcro Foam Peanuts/Bubble Wrap Styrofoam trays/cups Cardboard Tubes (tp, etc.) Scrap Wood/Balsa Sandpaper Egg Cartons Newspaper/Boxes Old Electronics Tackle Box(es) Plastic Bottles Sponges Tweezers Forceps Plastic/Rubber Tubing PVC Pipes and Connectors Tape (Electrical, Plumber’s, Duct, Masking) Balloons Tea Lights Measuring Cups/Spoons Marbles/Balls Buckets Twine/Fishing Line/Rope Mirrors Spray Bottles Marbles Miscellaneous: Art Supplies General Office Supplies General Tools & Hardware Gerber Tool Pegboard/Hooks Grocery Items: Salt Food Coloring Corn Syrup Baking Soda/Powder Cornstarch Vinegar Health & Safety: Eyewash Station Goggles Aprons Gloves Fire Blanket Fire Extinguisher First Aid Kit Wipes/Hand Sanitizer Tweezers Insect Repellant Change of clothes/shoes Blankets Life Science/Nature Studies: Microscope and slides Magiscope Preserved specimens Anatomical models Petri Dishes Magnifying Glass Binoculars Nature Journals/Art Supplies Notebook/Pencils (sharpener) Leaf/Flower Press Whistle Flashlight Compass Ziploc Bags Glo-Germ/Black Light Field Guides (TX specific and Golden Guides) Work Gloves Earth Science: Relief Globe Rocks and minerals Magnets Barometer, Rain Gauge Solar Thermometer Solar Power Cell Volcano Model Crystal Growing Kit Celestial Globe Stream Table Water Test Kit Motors/Batteries Singing Rod with Rosin Chemistry: Test Tubes/Racks and Tongs Rubber Stoppers/Corks Beakers Cylinders Clamps Bunsen Burners Thermometers Brushes Hot Plate pH Paper Pipettes Physical Science: Spectrum Tubes Prisms/Lens Sets Color Wands Mini Lamps/sockets Wire Alligator Clips Power supplies Van de Graaff Generator Multimeter Rockets Batteries Circuits Kit/Motors Wood Boards String PVC Simple Machines (or plans) Tuning Forks/Slinky Personal Supplies: Camelbak Lunch Phone Camera Camping: Tent Sleeping Pads/Bags Air Mattresses Lantern Stove/Kitchen Table/Chairs Fire Steel 12V Coffee Pot Bungees ETA: We just use the patio table for working and some shelves and a patio cart for storage but DH said he would build me this nifty cart. I need to get him on that. Hmmm. Maybe it could be my Christmas present. Edited December 19, 2009 by Alte Veste Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 Kristina- I am C&P your list to my HS files. That folding workbench looks awesome - I need a few (for sewing and art and science.....). I am :lol: at your triple sink...I don't think it would work for me...winters in OH are a wee bit different than TX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelBee Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelBee Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 This is my dream list. I've been jotting things down for a very long time. A very, very long time. Some of the info I had from my years working as a demonstrator/field trip instructor/camp-in coordinator in a science museum. We do NOT, I repeat NOT own all of these items because I am not (quite) that insane. :lol: However, looking at the list, you will probably be very surprised by how much you already own that you could throw in the science area. You can also see if hubby is agreeable to donating items from the garage. My dad actually gave us a lot of old items that he has in triplicate like voltimeters and other interesting what-nots and do-dads that older men of great tinkeriness seem to amass in vast quantities. :D My science center is on the patio. We live in TX so it's not a problem except on the harshest winter days. The patio is perfect because who cares about a mess and the "sink" is a bucket. We even have a triple sink because we have three buckets. In the summer, of course we use the pool as a sink. ;) Plenty of light too. When I get it in better order after the holidays, maybe we can start a new thread or revive this one and post pictures. (I'll be working on my art area also.) General Science: Calculators Rulers Scissors Triple Beam Balance Electronic Balance Spring Scales Weight and Mass set Stopwatches Calipers/C-Clamps Magnifiers Lab Charts/Posters Medicine Droppers Funnels Aluminum Foil/Plastic Wrap Foil Pans Paper Plates and Cups Plastic Spoons/Knives Paper Towel/Shop Towels Popsicle Sticks/Toothpicks Straws Ziploc Bags Q-Tips Cotton Balls Gauze Egg Cartons Tape Measure/Ruler Meter and Yard Sticks Styrofoam Corks Flashlight Plastic Bins Notebooks Velcro Foam Peanuts/Bubble Wrap Styrofoam trays/cups Cardboard Tubes (tp, etc.) Scrap Wood/Balsa Sandpaper Egg Cartons Newspaper/Boxes Old Electronics Tackle Box(es) Plastic Bottles Sponges Tweezers Forceps Plastic/Rubber Tubing PVC Pipes and Connectors Tape (Electrical, Plumber’s, Duct, Masking) Balloons Tea Lights Measuring Cups/Spoons Marbles/Balls Buckets Twine/Fishing Line/Rope Mirrors Spray Bottles Marbles Miscellaneous: Art Supplies General Office Supplies General Tools & Hardware Gerber Tool Pegboard/Hooks Grocery Items: Salt Food Coloring Corn Syrup Baking Soda/Powder Cornstarch Vinegar Health & Safety: Eyewash Station Goggles Aprons Gloves Fire Blanket Fire Extinguisher First Aid Kit Wipes/Hand Sanitizer Tweezers Insect Repellant Change of clothes/shoes Blankets Life Science/Nature Studies: Microscope and slides Magiscope Preserved specimens Anatomical models Petri Dishes Magnifying Glass Binoculars Nature Journals/Art Supplies Notebook/Pencils (sharpener) Leaf/Flower Press Whistle Flashlight Compass Ziploc Bags Glo-Germ/Black Light Field Guides (TX specific and Golden Guides) Work Gloves Earth Science: Relief Globe Rocks and minerals Magnets Barometer, Rain Gauge Solar Thermometer Solar Power Cell Volcano Model Crystal Growing Kit Celestial Globe Stream Table Water Test Kit Motors/Batteries Singing Rod with Rosin Chemistry: Test Tubes/Racks and Tongs Rubber Stoppers/Corks Beakers Cylinders Clamps Bunsen Burners Thermometers Brushes Hot Plate pH Paper Pipettes Physical Science: Spectrum Tubes Prisms/Lens Sets Color Wands Mini Lamps/sockets Wire Alligator Clips Power supplies Van de Graaff Generator Multimeter Rockets Batteries Circuits Kit/Motors Wood Boards String PVC Simple Machines (or plans) Tuning Forks/Slinky Personal Supplies: Camelbak Lunch Phone Camera Camping: Tent Sleeping Pads/Bags Air Mattresses Lantern Stove/Kitchen Table/Chairs Fire Steel 12V Coffee Pot Bungees ETA: We just use the patio table for working and some shelves and a patio cart for storage but DH said he would build me this nifty cart. I need to get him on that. Hmmm. Maybe it could be my Christmas present. Thank you so much for taking the time to post this! That is awesome! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satori Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I agree, thank you, thank you Kristina for posting your list! I've managed to collect most of that list, but not the specific science items yet. Thanks to this thread (and WTM in general), all but one gift under the tree is going to be educational! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 That's the room. The utility room with the sinks. Add some worktables (cheaply? purchased used restaurant "prep" table made of stainless steel seem ideal). Bill Use full-spectrum light bulbs and buy one or two full-spectrum "daylight" lamps for the desks. It makes all the difference in the world -- you can make a dark, closed-in space feel like outdoors just with full-spectrum lights. Excellent mood enhancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 OK, I'm begging you all to refrain from mocking me. Please. :tongue_smilie:This is my dream list. I've been jotting things down for a very long time. A very, very long time. Some of the info I had from my years working as a demonstrator/field trip instructor/camp-in coordinator in a science museum. We do NOT, I repeat NOT own all of these items because I am not (quite) that insane. :lol: However, looking at the list, you will probably be very surprised by how much you already own that you could throw in the science area. You can also see if hubby is agreeable to donating items from the garage. My dad actually gave us a lot of old items that he has in triplicate like voltimeters and other interesting what-nots and do-dads that older men of great tinkeriness seem to amass in vast quantities. :D Thank you for posting this great list! This thread has been great as I've been trying to think of the best way to set up a science corner in the new rental we'll be moving to soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Use full-spectrum light bulbs and buy one or two full-spectrum "daylight" lamps for the desks. It makes all the difference in the world -- you can make a dark, closed-in space feel like outdoors just with full-spectrum lights. Excellent mood enhancer. Good thought! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Ahem. Fire extinguisher. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Don't forget a supply of paper, colored pencils, regular pencils and pens. Oh, and a digital camera & printer. Document, document, document. Teach them young. Consider one of those composition books w/out spiral so they can keep a notebook of their discoveries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helena Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 I would love a garden window for botany projects: http://www.helpinaflash.com/images/Ideas/Garden-Window.jpg a beautiful terrarium: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://gaytree.com/terra/a-victorian_terrarium.jpg&imgrefurl=http://gaytree.com/terra/terrarium01.html&usg=__AiQ6kJorJWNccxw0469tGCWQPCk=&h=620&w=620&sz=194&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=-gDeiVnMDHZwMM:&tbnh=136&tbnw=136&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dterrarium%2Bvictorian%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1 A bookshelf for science only with a rug and chair. I'd love to get a Chinese herb cabinet someday, and slowly learn/teach herbal remedies.http://www.artsofasiacorp.com/products/cabinets/cabinets1_files/image001.jpg A great table, and lighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Alte Veste Academy---Mocking you??!!! I am bowing down to you. Oh great science corner guru...tell us more. I LOVE hearing all these wonderful ideas. My kids actually asked for a science corner at the beginning of the year and we sort of did it. Nothing great and it quickly got reabsorbed back into the regular routine of our room. I am inspired to try again and do better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 My ideal science corner..... Table for both of microscopes with drawers underneath for holding microscope supplies. A sink for clean up etc. I'd like a bookshelf for chemistry books, chemistry kits, chemistry supplies. Another for physics books, physics kits, physics supplies. Another for biology books, kits and supplies. A bookshelf for general science books. An area to display their rock and fossil collections. A bookshelf for keeping science notebooks and logs. We need an area for our LEGO Mindstorms kits with a surface for building. Lots of windows w/ an area for growing plants. Lots of table space for experiments with electrical outlets and natural gas source (with a safety valve that I have to turn on for use). Fire blanket and extinguisher. :001_smile: Wall space for putting posters such as classification chart. A corner for my pre-Ker to do her own experiments - low table, paints, paper, crayons, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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