S/O: How do you believe the universe came into being?

[BikeBookBread]

I've been really, really curious to see a poll on this for a long time now. This poll is for anyone: Religious, secular, whomever. I'm NOT looking for a debate please!

[Slartibartfast]

I believe God said,"ACHOO!!"

 

And then things started sticking together.

 

:lol:

[lionfamily1999]

Six looooooong days wherein God used evolution :)

[Mrs Mungo]

Six looooooong days wherein God used evolution :)

 

:iagree:

[Julie in Austin]

Six looooooong days wherein God used evolution :)

 

:iagree:

 

I'm amazed, actually, at how well the Genesis account lines up with what scientists have discovered about evolution.

[BikeBookBread]

I guess I should go on record, too, since I put up the poll...

 

I believe in six loooooooong days of creation, non-evolutionary in nature, absolutely run by God, a la the writings of Hugh Ross from Reasons to Believe.

[Mrs Mungo]

I do think you need to define evolution. I *know* we're not all using the same working definition.

[BikeBookBread]

I do think you need to define evolution. I *know* we're not all using the same working definition.

 

Yikes! I'm not a scientist!!! I would define the non-Deity directed evolution in this case as Darwinistic evolution, and the Deity-directed evolution as "Supernaturally Directed Darwinism". Clear as mud? :tongue_smilie:

[Mrs Mungo]

Yikes! I'm not a scientist!!! I would define the non-Deity directed evolution in this case as Darwinistic evolution, and the Deity-directed evolution as "Supernaturally Directed Darwinism". Clear as mud? :tongue_smilie:

 

Let me explain-I believe that evolution, as a natural process, happens and has happened in the past. I believe it helps life adapt to changing circumstances, as part of God's plan. I do not believe that all life stems from a single-celled organism through a series of spontaneous, beneficial genetic mutations.

[lionfamily1999]

I see evolution as an ongoing process wherein species change over time to better suit their environment. I believe that God created evolution in order to give us all the wonderful renewing systems we have and to allow us to adapt and change with those systems. I'm not so sure about the beginning of creatures, whether or not all living things evolved from a soup. If so, then it was God orchestrated over a period of six God days, iykwIm. I do believe in the big bang, the only thing that provides a stumbling block, for me, is the creation of living things, but I can see the scientific theories as being true, except (of course) that God would've been the power behind it.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I agree with Mrs Mungo that the definitions are too black and white and/or broad. If you put non-evolutionary, are you saying you don't believe in adaptation? If you put you believe in evolutionary, are you agreeing to spontaneous generation and every living thing coming from that?

 

BTW, I don't believe in macro-evolution OR 6 day creation. Though either COULD have been the way God decided to do things, scripture and science do not support them being the way he DID do things.

Edited October 10, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[lionfamily1999]

I agree with Mrs Mungo that the definitions are too black and white and/or broad. If you put non-evolutionary, are you saying you don't believe in adaptation? If you put you believe in evolutionary, are you agreeing to spontaneous generation and every living thing coming from that?

That's the problem with "evolution." Most people DO believe that species change over time. That does not necessarily mean they think we started as soup.

[IsabelC]

Here is some info that might interest you. It shows people's stated beliefs on God, evolution and other related issues with a comparison of the US to some other predominantly Christian countries.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_comp.htm

 

 

Wrt your question, do you mean to ask how life (or humans in particular) came to be or developed? Because that is a completely different question to how the universe came to be.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Hotdrink

[Mandy in TN]

I think you may be confusing the theory of biological evolution with cosmological theories regarding the beginning of the universe.

 

Mandy

[newlifemom]

Voted now . . .

:leaving:

 

:seeya:

:auto:

[milovany]

I asked my priest this a couple of weeks ago, and he had a reply (from the short six-day perspective), but I'd like to hear from the Christian looooong perspective if that's okay. I'm NOT looking to debate (seriously!), I just wanted to know what a Christian who believes this loooong timeline does with the Scripture that says death didn't come into the world until after Adam's sin (i.e., in my understanding there couldn't have been long days because there would have to have been death, then, before Adam's sin). Thanks.

[BikeBookBread]

I asked my priest this a couple of weeks ago, and he had a reply (from the short six-day perspective), but I'd like to hear from the Christian looooong perspective if that's okay. I'm NOT looking to debate (seriously!), I just wanted to know what a Christian who believes this loooong timeline does with the Scripture that says death didn't come into the world until after Adam's sin (i.e., in my understanding there couldn't have been long days because there would have to have been death, then, before Adam's sin). Thanks.

 

So as to not reinvent wheel, there was a large and in-depth thread about this a while back.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Darla,

 

Here is one belief as expressed in the Awake! Magazine of April 1978:

 

Only humans have a conception of the future, or plan for the future. They can look forward to time indefinite, to infinity. The Bible says of God’s gift to man: “Even time indefinite he has put in their heart.” (Eccl. 3:11) Animals, on the other hand, live only for the immediate moment or the immediate satisfaction of their desires. Man builds for the future. He uses the information and discoveries of history to plan his future, and most men would like to continue to pursue their purposes to time indefinite. Men “dread” the end of their lives. They know how life turns out—first, the aging process toward death, then the leaving of loved ones, being unable to carry out their projected works, the ceasing of all enjoyment and being soon forgotten. But animals do not have that “dread,” just as the Bible says with regard to the ostrich.

 

The reason for this vast difference is that man was created, not to die, but to live forever on earth. The entering in of sin is what introduced death. (Rom. 5:12; 6:23) However, sin on the part of the man did not introduce sin and death into the animal world. Animals have no knowledge of sin nor a conscience to direct or convict them. Man’s sinful treatment of animals has caused their death in some cases, even the extinction of some species. But geological discoveries prove that animals lived and died long before man appeared on the scene. Obviously, they always had a limited life-span.

[nmoira]

 

I think you may be confusing the theory of biological evolution with cosmological theories regarding the beginning of the universe.

:iagree: These are unrelated concepts.

[BikeBookBread]

I think you may be confusing the theory of biological evolution with cosmological theories regarding the beginning of the universe.

 

Mandy

 

Good point...I'm clearly NOT a scientist! (No excuse, though...)

 

I guess I selfishly just wanted to know if there were any other old-earth and ancient universe Christians on this board...

[nmoira]

 

I guess I selfishly just wanted to know if there were any other old-earth and ancient universe Christians on this board...

I'm not, but there are some. :)

[milovany]

So as to not reinvent wheel, there was a large and in-depth thread about this a while back.

 

Hey, thanks. I did see that thread earlier but didn't want to wade into it. I'll go back and read it! I figured this has been addressed.

[Slartibartfast]

Good point...I'm clearly NOT a scientist! (No excuse, though...)

 

I guess I selfishly just wanted to know if there were any other old-earth and ancient universe Christians on this board...

 

I am an old earth and ancient universe Christian.

 

I don't believe in macro evolution. I just believe it is mathematically impossible for thousands of different species to have evolved from a puddle of goo after multiple near planet wide extinctions.

 

I do believe there had to have been some sort of plan...but not to the extent in what a lot of people feel is "intelligent design." In other words, I do not believe dinosaurs and humans were on the earth simultaneously. :)

Edited October 10, 2009 by Sis

[Quiver0f10]

I guess I should go on record, too, since I put up the poll...

 

I believe in six loooooooong days of creation, non-evolutionary in nature, absolutely run by God.

 

 

This is what I believe too. A day is as a thousand years. I believe the clock started ticking after the fall.

[WishboneDawn]

I think you may be confusing the theory of biological evolution with cosmological theories regarding the beginning of the universe.

 

Mandy

 

Yup and I'm a little worried that it took a page and a half for someone to point that out.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I voted other.

 

I believe God is the creator of all space and time. The exact how he accomplished it, is a mystery to me. I tend to believe that most was accomplished through natural processes that he put in place at the initial point of creation, with episodes of intervention. I don't believe the intervention broke any of the physical laws but perhaps speeded them up or gave them opportunity to work in a speed or fashion they might not have if left completely alone, and that he still intervenes in the same fashion. I know this is totally unproveable, but that's ok with me. :-)

 

The two events I totally attribute to the divine nature of God are the initial creation moment, and the moment man became a creature with the ability to reason. I have plenty of speculations about many other aspects of creation and probably always will. One thing I know- I am not God, so I can not know anything about him other than what he has revealed. His revelation was given in a form that a human with limited knowledge could understand, this may mean that my understanding is skewed.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I guess I selfishly just wanted to know if there were any other old-earth and ancient universe Christians on this board...

 

I am also

[PineFarmMom]

I believe it to be 6 24-hour days, BUT I could be wrong on the length of days.

 

The main thing that I do know for a fact is that:

 

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" If it doesn't line up with that, then I don't believe it.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Texas T

[Mommyfaithe]

I believe God's Word.

~~Faithe

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

Are we discussing how life came to be on earth, or how the universe came into existence?

[MamaT]

I believe God's Word.

~~Faithe

 

:iagree:

[Peela]

Lol, I want to take issue with what is a deity?

I mean, I know what most of you think it means...its just not what i think it means. So I answered evolution with no deity just to not be difficult :). But my understanding is that "God" is the conscious living intelligence that is ever present and eternal and not separate from the process of creation or what is created....but God is not a separate entity and certainly not a parent figure. Not that God is any the less incredible for that.

But, I dont believe in the Bible story as literal. I believe in evolution.

[Greta]

Others have pointed out that the theories on the origins of the universe and biological evolution are distinct and separate. Still, I think the general idea was that you were asking to what extent we rely on science versus religion to answer these kinds of questions for us. And my personal answer is *both*, and that I don't think it has to be an either/or. Scientific discoveries like the big bang and evolution do not push God out of the picture, imo. On the contrary, the closer we get to understanding this beautiful, amazing, incredible universe, well that just brings us a tiny smidge closer to God. Furthermore, this kind of understanding increases my awe and gratitude. It does not remove the mystery or the wonder at all, but if anything, helps it grow. And to me, that is the point of having a creation story: that the gratitude and the glory goes to God. In some ways, it just doesn't matter whether He did it in six days or 14 billion years, the point is the same: He gets the credit. :001_smile:

 

Now, personally, I lean VERY STRONGLY towards the 14 billion year time frame and biological evolution. (Thus I picked the second choice on your poll.) To me, the evidence for both of these is so profound and complete as to be considered fact, in any useful sense of that word. I realize of course that many disagree, and I'm not trying to start a debate about that. I am only trying to say that my acceptance of a universe many billions of years old, and life evolving on earth for many hundreds of millions of years, in no way shape or form diminishes my faith. No scientific theory, whether we're talking about gravity, general relativity, atomic theory, evolution, etc., can "disprove" God. And if we are made in the image and likeness of God (which I believe, regardless of how He did it), and we are thinking, logical (at least to some degree ;)), curious beings, bent on exploring and understanding, well then that's a good thing, right? Are we not glorifying and honoring God by seeking to explore and understand this beautiful creation of His?

 

Okay, that's my rambling thoughts for the morning. :D

[shadowcat]

I picked evolutionary process, no deity involved because I think that is meant to mean is that I go along with the cosmological theories rather than the religious ones.

[KidsHappen]

It may be bunnies! :tongue_smilie:

[Daisy]

I believe that the origin of the universe began with a single word from God. I believe in a literal 6 day 24 hour time period for creation. And honestly, I think God creatively enjoyed himself and took his time even within that short time frame since he could have created it all in one second and with a single word. :)

 

I understand though that others feel differently. I have good friends who are great Christians and believe in old earth creationism or theistic evolution.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Daisy