Disciplining profanity in a 12yo?

[Sue G in PA]

Dd12 is a good girl. She is sweet and caring and loving and helpful, etc. But she is hormonal. :glare: Prone to meltdowns when she is tired, bored and well...hormonal. We have been working on expressing her anger in a positive way and handling those hormonal moments. Well, tonight she just lost it and there was no turning back. Why? B/c she was bored and I wouldn't take her to a PLAYGROUND hear our house. :001_huh: I was BUSY. So, I gave her suggestion on what to do. When she kept complaining I gave her extra chores. She didn't do them. Finally, I thought she had calmed down and I went out to get some air. Well, that started her off..."You said you were too busy to go out! You lied to me!" Geesh. Dh informs me that it went from bad to worse in a split second after I left. She proceeded to curse at my dh and call him a "F-ing, A-hole, retard and write a nice note to me calling me the same...only adding "b*tch" to the series of names. I was SHOCKED! Dh removed her mattress from her room. I honestly do not know what got in to her. I must confess, I used to have issues with "potty mouth". I grew up where cursing was not only accepted but normal. So, I have struggled. In the heat of anger, I have let a few choice words slip (not directed at the kids but with them in earshot). I immediately apologized and told them I should not have said those words and they shouldn't repeat them. Duh...like that works. The deed is done. So, this is my fault. I can't blame ps for this or anyone else. Well, my dad curses around her, but this is MY FAULT. WWYD? How can I punish her when she learned it from me? :confused: I certainly can't let her get away with talking to my dh or me like this, but she never would have learned those words if it wasn't for me. Help? Oh, and please be gentle...I am already feeling like a complete FLOP as a mother right now. I just can't handle any slams right now...just constructive advice.

[emeraldjoy]

Maybe not focus as much on the language as the loss of control???

(This is just right off the top of my head; thinking out loud.)

 

Love, love, love her. I am reading a book right now called Loving your Kids on Purpose. It talks about how our goal should be to love our kids with the ultimate result of their using their freedom appropriately. After all what we want for our kids is them to live freely, doing what they were created to do, right? Fear and love are not compatable. There is no fear in love. (edited to add: after re-reading this I realized it did not make much sense left as is.) With love comes a relationship and that relationship is the key. We don't want our kids to listen out of intimidation because when we are not present they either look for someone to control them as we did or they just flat out rebel. When there is a heart relationship then they chose to do what is right, does that make sense? And if they don't chose what is right then that is their choice and we still need to love them.

I just underline in the book "To fear our child's poor choices is to teach them to be afraid of freedom".

 

Maybe not making any sense at, maybe you will gain something from my rambling. None the less, you guys are in my prayers. She is blessed to have a caring momma such as you to put an effort into doing the best.

 

emerald

Edited September 20, 2009 by emeraldjoy
not making any sense

[teamturner]

I think this outburst from your dd has 2 components. The most important issue, imo, is speaking to you and your dh w/disrespect. You could discipline her on that alone and focus on how she doesn't get to act like that when she doesn't get her way. When my dc act that way I'll ask them if they are a 3 yo having a temper tantrum? That usually gets them to stop and consider their actions.

 

As for the swearing, you could approach this w/a humble spirit and tell her that you struggle w/this sin and that you both just need to pray about it and ask the Lord to help you as you work on it. I've discussed struggles in my behavior w/my dc when I see them struggle with the same things.

 

And you're not the only mother who has let bad words slip out in the presence of their dc. When one of my dc said a bad word that they claimed they heard from a neighbor kid, I was thinking they heard it from me. :confused: It was a wakeup call to me to make sure I held my tongue when it came to letting frustration get the best of me and letting something slip out.

 

:grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

You know that you were wrong when you cursed. You owned your mistake and apologized.

 

Your daughter needs to know that she was wrong when she cursed. She needs to own her mistake. I think her wrong-doing is compounded because instead of cursing at things in frustration, she cursed at people. (I don't know if you cursed at another person other than your kids but in general, cursing at people is a higher level of unacceptable in my book.)

 

I don't know what kind of discipline structure you have in your home, but don't feel guilty about using it. She was angry in an inappropriate way, she was disrespectful and she was disobedient when she did not do the chores you gave her. She needs consequences for all of those - not just having a potty mouth.

[Tangerine]

You say you were shocked, so this indicates that it isn't a regular thing. Something this epic, and seemingly out of character seems to call for a hefty dose of time, talking, and maybe a bit of detective work on your part. I, personally, would focus less on punishment if this is an isolated incident. I certainly don't think anyone should have to be sworn at, and that should absolutely be clear to her. But maybe there is something going on that pushed her to a breaking point of sorts.

 

I know you're feeling like a bad example. But maybe this opportunity to address the issues will not only help out your daughter, but will help you feel like a wonderful example of compassion and patience for her.

[Sue G in PA]

It's not regular but she HAS used those words before directed to me as I was leaving and wouldn't take her with me. It was weeks ago. Seems when she is intensely frustrated or upset or angry she'll just lose all self-control. Sounds like somebody else I used to know. :glare: ME. She is asleep right now...on her floor. Oh, I forgot to add that when dh took her mattress away (after the SECOND time she cursed at him) she went into our bedroom where my dd4 was sleeping and grabbed her arm and twisted it. :001_huh: So, not only did she curse, several times, even after dh warned her to stop talking, but she purposely hurt her innocent sister. Oh, one more thing...dh said he really kept his cool and didn't yell at her, didn't slap her, spank her or even get near her. Dd12 locked the door to her bedroom from the inside and shut it with her out after he took the mattress away and said, "well, now I can't sleep anywhere". So, dh told her she could go outside and sleep in the van. (It isn't cold tonight). He was only half kidding. Then dd12 proceeds to scream at him some more and tell him that is ABUSE and she read an article about that and that she could call the police to have him arrested. :001_huh: I have no idea where she read that. I'm so at a loss. I just hope she sleeps this off by tomorrow am.

[LibraryLover]

He took her mattress?

[Sue G in PA]

Yes, he did. He first took her pillow and comforter and warned her that if she proceeded to speak to him like she was he'd take her mattress, too. Well, she kept going and so he took the mattress. I really don't think that's so over-the-top.

[Tangerine]

I'd really be angriest about a child that old hurting a sleeping 4 year old. Out of control profanity would probably not even be on my radar after that.

[Renee in NC]

Yes, he did. He first took her pillow and comforter and warned her that if she proceeded to speak to him like she was he'd take her mattress, too. Well, she kept going and so he took the mattress. I really don't think that's so over-the-top.

 

I am totally baffled as to why he took her mattress, though. What is the rationale behind that?

 

I would possible look at the total upheaval your child has had in her life in the past little while as well. Stress affects children just like it does us. This is about more than not going to the playground - I would try really hard to see what the problem is.

[LibraryLover]

No place to sleep because she was swearing?

 

She's hurting a little sib.

 

Something is going inside of her, and I don't think random punishment is going to help that.

[Sue G in PA]

I honestly don't know what his rationale was/is. Perhaps he thought it wasn't a "right" to sleep on a comfortable mattress and that if she couldn't treat him with respect she didn't deserve it? I don't know. Yes, lots of stress in her life. Yes, all my fault. Yes, obviously more than an issue about the playground. Yes, all of the above. I'm tired. I shouldn't have posted this. No more advice, please. Thanks for listening and I apologize for taking up board space with this.

[Jean in Newcastle]

:grouphug:

[LibraryLover]

I honestly don't know what his rationale was/is. Perhaps he thought it wasn't a "right" to sleep on a comfortable mattress and that if she couldn't treat him with respect she didn't deserve it? I don't know. Yes, lots of stress in her life. Yes, all my fault. Yes, obviously more than an issue about the playground. Yes, all of the above. I'm tired. I shouldn't have posted this. No more advice, please. Thanks for listening and I apologize for taking up board space with this.

 

 

It's OK. You're worried and she's a teen. It's not an easy time. Those us who have teens understand that those realtionships and needs can be complicated, to say the least.

 

She may need soemthing different, but you can think about what that might be when you've had some sleep, and a chance to talk with her.

[Renee in NC]

I honestly don't know what his rationale was/is. Perhaps he thought it wasn't a "right" to sleep on a comfortable mattress and that if she couldn't treat him with respect she didn't deserve it? I don't know. Yes, lots of stress in her life. Yes, all my fault. Yes, obviously more than an issue about the playground. Yes, all of the above. I'm tired. I shouldn't have posted this. No more advice, please. Thanks for listening and I apologize for taking up board space with this.

 

No Sue, not all your fault. You have got to quit blaming yourself for all the problems in your life.

:grouphug:

[Laurie4b]

Yes, he did. He first took her pillow and comforter and warned her that if she proceeded to speak to him like she was he'd take her mattress, too. Well, she kept going and so he took the mattress. I really don't think that's so over-the-top.

 

I don't see how it is connected to the behavior, and it does sound over-the top--lke an escalating "You did this, so I do that." Taking something as personal and as comforting as your bedding and mattress does not seem appropriate and is likely to escalate a revenge cycle. I'd do that only if the child was destroying it. I also think having her sleep on the floor could get you a visit from CPS.

 

When mine cuss, they clean the bathroom. Dirty mouth, dirty words, dirty job. When one of mine said sh-- for the first time, I had him shovel the neighbor's dog poop. Talk about, shovel it.

 

But the cussing is the least of the issues--there is the defiance and the hurting the sister who is so much younger than she is. The latter would concern me a lot.

 

Discipline: first, teach what she is allowed to do when angry. You should arrange for some way that is acceptable to you so that she can leave the situation until she calms down. This is what you focus on, practice, etc.

 

For hurting her sister: this really concerns me. It was not an impulsive thing because she was mad at her sister. It was a revenge thing because she was mad at her parents. She is way too old/too big to be picking on a little kid. This is what would glean the severest consequences from me. I don't know your family situation and what would be the best consequences. It would probably be good to talk with someone IRL about it. Probably something along the line of losing 12 year old privileges because 12 year olds protect 4 year olds, they don't hurt them. I would not leave them alone and if you use her to babysit at all, I would stop. Whatever you choose for this, it needs to be well thought out, calm and related to what has been done so that it doesn't feed the revenge cycle.

[ma23peas]

Sue, first prayers for you and dh and dd!!

 

Okay, I have to come from a faith point of view because pretty much all my parenting tips/skills/wisdom comes from God...I mean no offense just it's how it's going to come out.

1. Pray..it's where I gain my strength...it's my first go-to...I ask for forgiveness for losing temper if I got to that point and I pray for wisdom..lots of it.

 

2. Not so keen on the mattress...for a couple of reasons...a child's home is supposed to be the one place where he/she feels accepted/loved/safe...now taking away video games/tv/anything that is superficial to the home..then yes, fine..but a mattress is a place of comfort and safety, removing that is not going to get your point across, but may reinforce in her the fact that you guys do not care.

 

3. Show anger..yes..anger. She is testing her limits..hurting the younger sibling is UNACCEPTABLE...the response to you finding this out needs to be swift, a degree stronger than what she did, and short. I have been working with horses for the last 5 years..when I first started out I was so enamored with them, just big puppies, but they don't respect being adored, they respect knowing that they are SAFE and being directed by a competent leader. So they will TEST, TEST, TEST you...we have an abused horse that was in the habit of nipping to get his way..if he tried to nip I had to be swift with a block and give him my meanest eyes or make him back up back up back up...nothing more than 5-10 seconds but IMMEDIATE...kids are the same, the punishment should be swift and match and maybe exceed the degree they gave...but you should make it perfectly clear that the language and the abuse towards sibling will not be tolerated EVER.

 

4. How do you back that up? The Bible is our key, we have raised our children and explained along the way that our path is to be Christ-like, we explain that we are human and WILL fail..but God is so merciful and loves us..we would be dishonoring Him if we did not put Him first and discipline our children and show them His grace...we KNOW the sacrifice He made for us...that humbles us every time. If you're dealing with a child who does not have a commitment to follow her faith, then I would do all in my power to lead her...if she is having impulsive issues (hormonal or not) we share stories of how many throughout history have had similar issues..but we can not overcome them ourselves..we rely on God to help us help ourselves!

 

5. Take the time to have mommy/daddy/daughter time..make sure you've given her enough outlets, I've noticed the older mine get, the more they like to manage...we just added another thing this week because they begged for it...sometimes just getting them around other kids is a great help...it increases their interests and gives them a purpose for filling those down times...my daughter made a fall wreath for our front door for a badge, my other daughter practiced her Irish Dancing steps, son worked on organizing a check off list for the younger scouts requirements remaining....I didn't ask them to do those things, but they WANTED to...at 12, she really needs to have something she loves to do!

 

A conversation I would have..."DD, do you know how much your father and I adore and love you? You are so gifted and we marvel in the talents you have....God has a special plan for your life and we feel blessed that we get to watch you through it...but yesterday was a blip in the road, it was the worst of you....90% of the time we see the best and maybe we don't praise you enough for the kindness and consideration you show others..but when we see xyz behavior, we have to react. Maybe "abc" we did was overboard or not the right step, but all this hit at once and we did the best we could. What do you have to say about what you said and did last night?"

 

let her speak....listen....respond with your heart....not just the mushy stuff but the heart that knows you have to guide her actions...you're the mom, you know all this...just reiterating it so you don't second guess yourself!!

 

I hope this didn't come off as preachy...I have a heart for you all tonight and know that tomorrow will be better!

 

Tara

[Imprimis]

First of all, please don't feel like a "flop of a mother." My impression, from reading your post is that you are a very caring, concerned mother.

 

I think the pre-teen, early teen years can be difficult for some kids (and their parents ;)), and, hormones certainly play a role.

 

Obviously, your daughter's language and actions were unacceptable and disrespectful, and need to be addressed, perhaps with some revocation of privileges.

 

I would sit her down and make sure she understands that behavior of this type will not be tolerated, and she will face consequences (perhaps your dh,and you, together, can determine what those will be) if it happens again.

 

And, keep working on helping her find more appropriate ways of dealing with frustration, anger, and disappointment.

 

Most importantly, keep letting her know how much you love her. Even though our kids tend to pull away from us a little as they get older, I think they need just as much guidance, just as much attention, just as much encouragement, and just as many hugs as they needed when they were little.

 

:grouphug: to all of you!

.

[BabyBre]

If dd's in ps, I don't buy for a minute that YOU are the only reason she could possibly know those words. Not for a minute. Now, if she's heard you say them in that context, I'd say you've probably had much to do with that. But if that's not the way she's heard you cuss, ever, I wouldn't attribute that particular string of profanities to you. Dh lets loose here once in a while, but rarely in an offensive attack like that. We, too, would be absolutely shocked to hear one of our dc talking to us like that.

 

I'd be careful with this dd. She sounds like a loaded cannon! She reminds me of me at about that age. :001_huh:

[Lovedtodeath]

Sue, You and I have so much in common. I am having a particularly bad day. I haven't talked to you much but reading your contributions to this board mean a lot to me. :grouphug:

[BabyBre]

It's not regular but she HAS used those words before directed to me as I was leaving and wouldn't take her with me. It was weeks ago. Seems when she is intensely frustrated or upset or angry she'll just lose all self-control. Sounds like somebody else I used to know. :glare: ME. She is asleep right now...on her floor. Oh, I forgot to add that when dh took her mattress away (after the SECOND time she cursed at him) she went into our bedroom where my dd4 was sleeping and grabbed her arm and twisted it. :001_huh: So, not only did she curse, several times, even after dh warned her to stop talking, but she purposely hurt her innocent sister. Oh, one more thing...dh said he really kept his cool and didn't yell at her, didn't slap her, spank her or even get near her. Dd12 locked the door to her bedroom from the inside and shut it with her out after he took the mattress away and said, "well, now I can't sleep anywhere". So, dh told her she could go outside and sleep in the van. (It isn't cold tonight). He was only half kidding. Then dd12 proceeds to scream at him some more and tell him that is ABUSE and she read an article about that and that she could call the police to have him arrested. :001_huh: I have no idea where she read that. I'm so at a loss. I just hope she sleeps this off by tomorrow am.

 

 

Oh, Sue, I'm so sorry. I know when I was a miserable teenager, what I wanted was my working parents' attention. I was very shy so it was hard for me to fit in well at school, and my folks were always at work. There wasn't really anything special about me. My grades were as good as they could be, I played soccer as well as I could, but I was missing something.

 

I think someone has already said this, but if possible, drop what you can and reserve the time for your dd. Maybe she requires more than what your other children do. Read the "Five Love Languages of Children". I found that very helpful in understanding all my family members.

 

Oh, and when an older child begins hurting a younger sibling, all bets are off. She knows better. That's bullying and it's an assault on a helpless child. Don't let that go, and do not leave her alone with her younger siblings. Ever. Hurting your baby is one sure fire way to get your attention, but it's your job to protect the ones that can't protect themselves.

[Nakia]

:grouphug:

[Annabel Lee]

:grouphug:

Oh Sue, I'm so sorry you and your family are going through this.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Annabel Lee

[kalanamak]

No more advice, please. .

 

Okay, just :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

BTW, when I was in school 12 year olds were the worst cursers. It was old by 13.

[mommyrooch]

No more advice, please. QUOTE]

 

No advice Sue, just lost and lost of :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

It sounds to me like you are a really good mom who loves your dd very much.

[mommyrooch]

No advice Sue, just lost and lost of :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

It sounds to me like you are a really good mom who loves your dd very much.

 

I obviously can't spell now. :tongue_smilie: I meant to say lots and lots of :grouphug:

[Jen500]

:grouphug:

I find being a parent the hardest job I've ever held!

[phathui5]

Dh removed her mattress from her room.

 

I'm not understanding that.

[Mommyof4ks]

:grouphug::grouphug: I don't have a child that age, but I do remember being a PITA at that age. Prayers for a better day today and hopefully you can get to the bottom of your dd's behavior.

[Cindyg]

The mattress thing -- the Tough Love people recommend taking away all the extra things out of the rebellious child's life: stereo, computer game, recreational books, bike, everything, and leaving them nothing but a mattress to sleep on until they earn their stuff back with good behavior.

 

It may be that Dad was remembering hearing something like this, but in a moment of frustration, he remembered it wrong.

 

Many sympathies. I was a very challenging 12YO. I don't think my mom handled it very well. Just remember that these issues will pass, but your child's relationship with you and dad is forever. Try to resolve it in love. And when this moment is passed, be sure to love up on her. Restore the relationship. Let her apologize and move on. (Yes, she'll do it again three minutes later, but while there's a moment of peace, reconcile!)