Sunshine State Sue Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 We're secular, mathy folk here. Since it's recommended in TWTM, I've gotten a couple of versions of Pilgrim's Progress from the library. I'm fearing Dante's Inferno all over again. We got through some children's version, but we both said, "Huh?" one too many times. Why do I want to put us through this? When I posted my reservations about Dante, I got a whole lot of encouragement and suggestions. It did help. I guess I need some encouragement again. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibaker103 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I'm feeling the same way Sue!! :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Theophan Academy Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I guess I would say for the same reason you would read any other great literary work. Why do you personally read any piece of classic literature? That is not a rhetorical question (nor am I being snarky :), I am suggesting you ask yourself why you read what you read- and apply it to this book also, if it does not fit, then I would not read it. Personally, the fact that it is considered to be one of the most significant works of English literature would be one reason. The fact that it is a Christian allegory and you do not subscribe to those beliefs should not disqualify it as great and worthy literature any more than the fact that I do not subscribe to the underlying premises of Kafka's writings, yet I consider them to be incredibly important pieces of literature tow which my children should be exposed. My other point to consider would be - I consider myself a literary/artsy person, but I do not feel that exempts me from delving deeply into the fields of math and science. Again, I am not trying to sound accusatory or snippy, though it may look that way in print, I am just trying to point out a different way of looking at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Certain books are considered part of the Western Canon. If one ascribes to the WTM educational philosophy, these Great Books ought to be read because they represent masterpieces of our civilization. As Mortimer Adler would put it, an educated individual should be able to take part in the "Great Conversation" that began long before we were born and will (hopefully) continue long after we pass on from this world. That said, if you REALLY don't care for any particular book, there are hundreds of other classics out there to read. Nobody says that you HAVE to read "Pilgrim's Progress" or any other specific title. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmwife Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Have you tried doing it as an audiobook? There is one online. I think as SWB wisely stated that you need to read(listen?) through a book several times and start an internal dialogue. Pilgrims Progress is a tough book, which I think makes it worth the battle. I personally am listening to it for the first time (after dropping out of reading), it is much easier to digest when listening than reading. IMHO! http://librivox.org/the-pilgrims-progress-by-john-bunyan/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyK Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Is there a way to read it in conjunction with a lecture about it? When I read Dante's Inferno in college, what made me love it was the professor's lectures which showed all the tie-ins with the Bible, literature, art etc. I had great teachers in high school and college who were wonderful at drawing all those connections. Is there a Teaching Company group of lectures that covers great works of literature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I have to second Crimson Wife. And apart from the literary work being part of the Great Conversation, consider this: the allegory will paint a picture of your child's spiritual journey in his mind. Parts will stay there, and he may reflect back on it years from now, at a critical fork in his path. Not to be paralleled with Scripture, of course, but it does do a great job of personalizing the journey. Honestly, if I had to choose 5 books to base my child's walk (and education) on, Pilgrim's Progress would be there, along with the Bible and a few others by CS Lewis et al. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhondabee Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Oh, goodness, we didn't get through Dante and we're Christians - LOL! Good job! I don't know how I would look at Pilgrim's Progress if I were in your shoes. I *was* surprised how many other books refer back to Pilgrim's Progress. (I can think of Little Women right off the bat - but I know there were some others, not as obvious.) I guess I would say for your son to appreciate the world the way it is now, and to appreciate the changes of the past 500 years especially, it would be important to understand how Christians view the world. (Much as Christians try to understand how others view the world - so that we can all hopefully learn to get along.) And, I think the version in the logic stage list would be a fairly good "look inside" a Christian's thoughts. (I'm not sure that makes sense. What I'm trying to say is that just because we are Christians doesn't mean that we don't want to understand people who aren't. But, we need to study what they believe and why, as well as studying what we believe. Maybe that is a foreign idea to some who isn't a Christian? I really don't know - but I do know that my sons have learned to be much more understanding and loving toward other people (and very angry towards some so-called Christians) as we have been exposed to more than just our own little worldview. I hope that doesn't sound judgmental - it's certainly not meant to be!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I don't know, Sue. I have tried and tried and tried to get through that excruciating book. I am definitely not secular OR mathy, LOL, so there is some part of me that thinks I "ought" to read this great Christian classic. I just... can't. :tongue_smilie: I have honestly tried. I think I read somewhere that SWB had the same battle with Moby Dick. She tried and tried and tried to finish the book. I wonder if she ever did? Does it really matter? That said, I think it might be a good idea for a 13 year old to know the basic idea of P's P. If it helps, buy Cliffs Notes. See if one of these are better than what you've tried so far: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=pilgrim%27s+progress+for+children&x=0&y=0 You don't have to slog through the original version, just read enough to give your son the basic outline/characters/themes of the story. IMO, he will be properly educated, even if he never reads the whole, grown-up, insomniacs version. HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Have you tried doing it as an audiobook? There is one online. I think as SWB wisely stated that you need to read(listen?) through a book several times and start an internal dialogue. Pilgrims Progress is a tough book, which I think makes it worth the battle. I personally am listening to it for the first time (after dropping out of reading), it is much easier to digest when listening than reading. IMHO! http://librivox.org/the-pilgrims-progress-by-john-bunyan/ Thank you so much for this link. Maybe I will, after all, get through Pilgrim's Progress. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I think I read somewhere that SWB had the same battle with Moby Dick. She tried and tried and tried to finish the book. I wonder if she ever did? Does it really matter? I haven't finished "Moby Dick" either. I've tried several times. When I read the SWB couldn't finish it, it made my day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I substituted it for another book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julieofsardis Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 My dd 13 just finished with the book -- note that I didn't say she finished reading it. We are Christians, but honestly, I couldn't bring myself to read more than a chapter. Here's what she did. She skimmed several chapters, got a good feel for the characters and story line. I had her go through and pick out 6 allegories and explain them, then she was to do a summary of the plot and and ashort character sketch of the main characters. I think by doing this, she will catch most of the allusions to this book in future lit. That is my main goal -- for my dc to be familiar enough with a good many books, so that they can catch connections and allusions. Some books are to be tasted and that's what we did with this one. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Some books are to be tasted and that's what we did with this one. Julie Another way to get a sense of it and understand references to it would be to read Dangerous Journey. It's a longish picture book that gets the story across, & my ds loved the illustrations. Julie in MN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Dangerous Journey is our favorite retelling. We even have the video which can be watched for free. I know you are just looking at it from a literaty standpoint, but still, Dangerous Journey is what I would choose. The vocabulary is still incredible! Book http://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Journey-Story-Pilgrims-Progress/dp/0802836194/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251689992&sr=8-1 Videos http://www.answersingenesis.org/kids/videos Study Guide https://www.visionvideo.com/pdf/DangJourney.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 There are a few books (PP is one) where a general background knowledge is important, but I don't think that reading the original is necessary. In those cases, the boys read children's versions and I leave it at that. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 We are secular and my kids both loved Pilgrims Progress! I dont think they realised the deeper meaning. They just enjoyed the story. And, I left it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 IWhy do you personally read any piece of classic literature? My only reason is to give ds a better education than I got. I guess that is valid in this case as well. I've got Dangerous Journey. I've got the one by Gary Schmidt that TWTM recommends I've got another retelling by Lippincott The audio version is on its way Mabe I'll go buy the Cliff Notes - the ones at the library are missing. I could even donate it when I'm done. It helps me to know that other books allude to PP. Care to name one? I have no intention of reading the adult version or getting ds to read it either. I'll let some other teacher do that one in high school or college. ;) I'll report back when we're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsacco Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 There are also youtube animated videos of P.P!! Both my kids LOVED the story after they watched those.... Also - there is an audio version which is acted out - with I think 50 actors or something like that. I can't find the link right now - but I heard it was well worth the $20-30 for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Hedgehog Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 It helps me to know that other books allude to PP. Care to name one? PP relied heavily on the tradition of morality plays. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 There is also Little Pilgrims Progress by Helen Taylor It became a classical in it's own right. My 9 yo just finished it in 3 days- LOVED it. And I think Timberdoodle sold a comic book version of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 For what it is worth, here is my take which may strike some as blasphemy! I chose not to subject my son to PP. The lack of joy in the pilgrim's journey was more than this reader could bear and, given the fact that there are more Great Books than hours in the day, I feel that one can pick and choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 One reason why I would want my kids to be familiar with PP is that it was such a common classic for so long. For a couple of hundred years there, in England and America, it was often the only book besides a Bible that a Protestant family owned. Just about everyone had read it over and over--for one thing, it was one of the very few books besides the Bible one could read on the Sabbath, so it was Sunday entertainment for generations of children. It was such an intrinsic part of the lives of so many ordinary people that I think it's important to know something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 We finished a retelling of Pilgrim's Progress by Gary Schmidt today. I will say that I'm glad that we read it. I was able to share with ds some ways that I view things differently than the book views them. I liked the acknowledgment of the "straight but hard way" and the many ways in which we can be pulled off that path. Sigh. I do wish ds was more interested in some discussion and not just "get it over with, mom". Thank you all for the encouragement. It helps me to know the reasons behind the book suggestion and, having read it, I can appreciate that ds is getting a better education than I ever got. :seeya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallory Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Didn't the girls read and act it out in Little Women, even every year??? (I can't remember for sure it has been such a long time since I have read Little Women). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 My daughter is reading it now and loves it. She's read other versions before and couldn't wait to read it. If you don't want to that's fine but don't assume you won't like it. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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