What does "Do you have room in your car?" mean to you?

[Perry]

Two other neighborhood girls carpool with my two dds home from dance a couple times a week. Once in awhile other kids will need a ride too. I almost always do the driving, but occasionally one of the other moms picks them up. Last night, my neighbor called and offered to pick up. She has a small Toyota (seats 4 passengers) and an SUV. I specifically asked her if she had room for everyone, and she said sure.

 

I happened to glance out the window as they were driving up, and she came from the opposite way they usually come, so instantly I knew they had taken another girl home. So there was an extra passenger with no seat belt. I assumed she was either going to take the SUV or just bring the 4 girls and no one else.

 

My girls know they are not to get in a car unless there is a seat belt for each passenger, and that they are supposed to call me if they're ever in that situation. They said the place was closing and they were the last ones there, and didn't want to wait in the dark by themselves. Of course they could have asked the neighbor to wait while I ran over (it's less than 10 minutes away) but they didn't feel comfortable doing that.

 

Consequently, they won't be going in anyone else's car for awhile.

 

So, when I asked if she had room for everyone, would you have understood the implied "a seatbelt for every passenger" or would you have done what she did?

 

I know that I am a little rigid when it comes to safety issues, so I'm wondering if this is acceptable to most people.

[melissel]

That's absolutely what it means to me, but I'm pretty rigid on car safety issues too. I'm still blown away when I see people driving kids (older or younger) around without seat belts, but I guess I shouldn't be. When we were at the beach this summer, we were getting out of our cars at for lighthouse visit when we saw a car pull in with too many people in it, and 3 or 4 of them were little kids. We could see the little kids bopping around in the back seat, with no car seats. My DH and friends had (playfully, but seriously) stop me from saying something to them when we walked past. It drives me :willy_nilly:

 

So no, I don't think you're wrong, though I feel for your girls, being put in that situation by another adult :(

[abbeyej]

I would have thought just as you did. And when someone asks me, I will say, "I have three seats for kids, and one for another adult or teenager." I will not put a child under 12 in my front seat (5yo car with airbags). I would be extremely upset if someone else considered it appropriate to transport my kids without one passenger per seat belt in seating appropriate to their size and physical maturity (including a booster seat for my extremely petite 7yo).

[lionfamily1999]

Imo, it means you have enough seatbelts. I've learned my lesson, though, and when someone offers to drive my dcs, I specifically ask about seat belts. :glare:

[ChristusG]

I'm a stickler for car safety. My 5 year old is still in a carseat with a 5 point harness. To me, "room in the car" means that there is a working seatbelt for each person, with no child in the front seat. My kids are only 5 and 2, so they are not allowed to ride in cars with others because switching their carseats is a pain.

[Julie in CA]

I would assume that they had a seatbelt for each child. At the same time however, if they were the last ones waiting in a darkening parking lot, and another child had no ride, I would double buckle my kiddos in order to give a kid a ride (assuming something unforseen had happened and the ride was indeed necessary).

 

Perhaps the other mom was between a rock and a hard place, already having consented to take your dc and then ending up stuck with another passenger? I'm *not* saying she made the correct choice, but did you ask how it happened that she transported 5 people in a 4-passenger vehicle? I'd want to know if there were extenuating circumstances.

[Perry]

I would assume that they had a seatbelt for each child. At the same time however, if they were the last ones waiting in a darkening parking lot, and another child had no ride, I would double buckle my kiddos in order to give a kid a ride (assuming something unforseen had happened and the ride was indeed necessary).

 

Perhaps the other mom was between a rock and a hard place, already having consented to take your dc and then ending up stuck with another passenger? I'm *not* saying she made the correct choice, but did you ask how it happened that she transported 5 people in a 4-passenger vehicle? I'd want to know if there were extenuating circumstances.

 

 

The extra girl is someone we occasionally give a ride home. Lots of these girls live in our neighborhood, and it's not unusual for the parents to assume the girls can find a ride home. We all know each other well and that doesn't bother me.

 

Neighbor had several options:

Tell T. her car was full, and try to find someone else to give her a ride (there would have been at least 3 other girls that could have done it)

Tell her she'd wait while T. called her parents to come get her

Tell her she'd wait while my girls called me for a ride. She knew I was home and available.

The studio is in a safe area, and I wouldn't be the least bit concerned about waiting for 10 minutes, especially as they could have sat in the car and left if they felt threatened (which is almost inconceivable in that area, but w/e)

 

I wonder if it didn't occur to her, or if she is just totally disregarding my wishes. I wouldn't think of having an unrestrained passenger, except in some bizarre situation where there is truly no alternative.

[melissel]

I wonder if it didn't occur to her, or if she is just totally disregarding my wishes. I wouldn't think of having an unrestrained passenger, except in some bizarre situation where there is truly no alternative.

 

I would be willing to bet it just didn't occur to her. I know some people whom I consider some of the most level-headed on the planet, and they let their kids do unsafe and uninformed things with their seat belts (and have for years). I think some people just don't know or pay attention to those kinds of things, or poo poo them as hypersensitive.

[phathui5]

So, when I asked if she had room for everyone, would you have understood the implied "a seatbelt for every passenger" or would you have done what she did?

 

Room in the car means having a seatbelt available.

 

For those who said they would Double Buckle:

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9701967776/m/8631914499

(from MythBusters)

Edited August 27, 2009 by phathui5

[ConnieB]

I tend to be the one always driving for specifically this reason.....I know that I can trust myself for seat belt and safe driving, I can't be sure of other parents, lol. Of course, I've felt that way about relatives too, so I know I'm a bit over protective, lol.

 

We're adamant about seat belts, so to us, yes, "room in the car" would mean that there was a space with a working seat belt. Unfortunately it sounds like this other family doesn't share the same philosphy and to them "room" meant physical space not safe space.

 

I think I'd have a talk with my kids again about their responsibilty to call home and get me to pick them up when they're faced with someone that doesn't follow our rules. And that this responsibility trumps their feeling embarassed to ask the other mom to wait with them because they're refusing to get into the car without a seat belt. It's awkward, but they need to understand, truly understand, your reasoning. Safety must come first.

 

It's tough to have to place the responsibility on a child's shoulder's but obviously the other parent doesn't share your rules and therefore you have to either decide never to let another parent drive your children around town, or to place the burden on your own child to make wise decisions. If they're not old enough, or willing, to take that responsibility then you either have to alway be the driver or be more specific from now in your question...."Do you have enough seat belts for all the passengers?"

[Pip]

We have run into this and I have gone ballistic. Dh was NOT happy about it either. And double buckling doesn't cut it either.

 

Do you have room to me means do you have enough seat belts.

[Moni]

Doesn't matter what it means to me.

It matters what it means to the driver.

 

You could add "would everyone be in their own seatbelt alone?"

 

Frankly, she could say yes, And then take on an extra kid, and then you'd be in the same situation.

 

I don't think it was the phrasing. It's just the mentality of the driver.

She'll do this again even after promising all have seatbelts...if.. another girl ends up needing a ride. And then even if your dc has a seatbelt and ones doesn't, that extra child is a potential projectile aimed for your dc in a crash, etc.

 

 

 

:seeya:

[KidsHappen]

It could be that she didn't plan to have the extra passenger and that otherwise that children would have been left alone in the dark. In that situation I would have taken the extra child and double buckled on the back bench seat. By this I do not mean one child sitting on top of another but two small children sitting next to each other in the middle of the back bench seat and them putting the one lap belt across both of them. In my van this will work if all of the children a fairly small but no longer in boosters. Is it possible that this is what she did?

[ConnieB]

It could be that she didn't plan to have the extra passenger and that otherwise that children would have been left alone in the dark. In that situation I would have taken the extra child and double buckled on the back bench seat. By this I do not mean one child sitting on top of another but two small children sitting next to each other in the middle of the back bench seat and them putting the one lap belt across both of them. In my van this will work if all of the children a fairly small but no longer in boosters. Is it possible that this is what she did?

 

 

Even if this were the scenario, she should have called OP and explained the situation, then waited while OP arrived to help with the overflow (so no one was waiting in the dark). I would hope that had she called ANY parent they would have agreed that even double belting was unacceptable and have arrived to help. I don't think OP gave an age, but if she's putting the responsbility for deciding on a ride or not on them, I'm gonna guess they were too big for double belting to actually even fit.

 

Definitely a wake up call for OP about asking the point blank question, and also having to decide if she can trust this driver's response in the future. I'm curious if now that it's been a few days if OP talked to this other mom about the situation.....whether it's a case of this driver's seat belt philosphy isn't quite as strict as so many of those on this board, or if it was a case of suddenly an extra kid and not really thinking it through to call for help. That would be necessary for me to know to make a decision about whether this driver is someone I'd trust with my kids again.

[AuntieM]

Wow, I would never take on the liability of transporting another person's child if I had no seat belt for that child.

 

(So, yeah, in college we often crammed a car full without counting seat belts, but you know those college years were like living in an alternate reality...ugh).

 

If someone said she had enough seats for all, I would not even suspect that she wouldn't have enough seat belts. The thought wouldn't even cross my mind.

[BamaTanya]

and I rarely allow my dc to ride with others after I discovered there were other otherwise completely sane people who weren't as "uptight" as I am. Ugh.

 

OK. After being called uptight (or whatever) for years, and even, at times, by my immediate family members, I STILL stand ABSOLUTELY FIRM on seatbelt issues. It is the LAW. And, even if it weren't, I do NOT take chances with my dc's safety. The risk, however slight, is not acceptable. This is ONE area of our lives over which the adults DO have complete control to help protect dc.

Edited August 29, 2009 by BamaTanya

[ConnieB]

and I rarely allow my dc to ride with others after I discovered there were other otherwise completely sane people who weren't as "uptight" as I am. Ugh.

 

OK. After being called uptight (or whatever) for years, and even, at times, by my immediate family members, I STILL stand ABSOLUTELY FIRM on seatbelt issues. It is the LAW. And, even if it weren't, I do NOT take chances with my dc's safety. The risk, however slight, is not acceptable. This is ONE area of our lives over which the adults DO have complete control to help protect dc.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I once had another child question why they had to wear a seat belt in MY car but their mom didn't make them. I was totally at a loss for words on how to explain that without making it sound like his mom didn't care about him.....because the few times my own kids have asked, I've responded "because I love you and don't want to even take a chance that something would happen to you." I mumbled something about rules instead, but felt so awful at not being able to really explain to a child that a seat belt could mean the difference between life and death IN AN INSTANT. There is no "I'll put it on if it looks like we might be in danger". Most accidents happen in a few split seconds barely enough to register that it is happening and definitely not enough time to even register the thought of "I better put that seat belt on now" let alone actually reach over and do it. How many accident victims have you heard say "I didn't even see it coming". There are sooo many dangers that we can't protect our children from....but reducing the risk of injury/death by wearing a seat belt is too simple not to do.

 

I still say that my car won't even start the engine unless everybody has their seat belt on. I've gotten rolled eyes from teens (and a few adults) when I've actually sat there with the key off waiting for them to finally give in and put it on.....but so be it. At least I won't ever have to go through my life with "I wish I'd made them wear seatbelts so they'd still be alive". I know several parents who have regrets like that over seatbelts, young child swimming unwatched, going out with friends the parents didn't approve of, etc. Sadly, my own kids have learned that they'd rather me be the 'mean mom' by watching our friends go through the deaths of their children. I was called the "mean mom" by a child that refused to keep their seat belt on in my car and was therefore driven home immediately and left behind for the field trip I was taking everyone on. That child wears their seat belt now, lol.

[Perry]

 

I once had another child question why they had to wear a seat belt in MY car but their mom didn't make them. I was totally at a loss for words

 

That one's easy for me:

 

"Because if we have a wreck, anyone who isn't restrained will fly through the air and put the rest of us in danger. Put it on for our safety, even if you don't care about yours."

[Perry]

I don't think OP gave an age, but if she's putting the responsbility for deciding on a ride or not on them, I'm gonna guess they were too big for double belting to actually even fit.

 

 

I'm curious if now that it's been a few days if OP talked to this other mom about the situation.....whether it's a case of this driver's seat belt philosphy isn't quite as strict as so many of those on this board, or if it was a case of suddenly an extra kid and not really thinking it through to call for help. That would be necessary for me to know to make a decision about whether this driver is someone I'd trust with my kids again.

The girls were between 12 and 15.

 

I haven't talked to her, but will be seeing her next week. I have talked to my girls and we've role played some things they can say if they are in this situation again. We've done that before but apparently they needed some reinforcement. :)

 

For now, they aren't riding with anyone but me.

[NavyWifeandMommy]

I would be a little 'hot'. I could think of many things of how wrong it was. It wasn't an emergancy type situation that would cause the mother to have more than her car could hold. Your girls knew the rules and disobeyed so they should get a punishment for that. I would talk to the studio too. Who shuts down totally while there are still people there? Yet I sadly know places do that and it irks me but that is another post.

 

So if I asked if you have room or vise versa. It means do you have enough seats for everyone. I have a mini van and still half the time it isn't big enough:ohmy:.

[Peek a Boo]

Tell her she'd wait while my girls called me for a ride. She knew I was home and available.

 

I've called parents or other friends to help properly transport kids before.

 

I'm pretty uptight about seatbelts too, tho not quite as uptight as others about carseats and boosters. ;)

[Veritaserum]

So, when I asked if she had room for everyone, would you have understood the implied "a seatbelt for every passenger" or would you have done what she did?

 

I would absolutely have understood that to mean "a seatbelt for every passenger."

[dragons in the flower bed]

It definitely means "Do you have enough seatbelts?" to me, and sometimes, "Do you have enough space for that many child safety seats?" but I have had enough incidences of misunderstanding that now, unless I know the person well enough, I tend to ask, "Do you have enough seatbelts?" instead of "Do you have room in your car?"

[jujsky]

"Room" to me would mean a seatbelt for every passenger. If there is no seatbelt or you choose not to wear one in my car, you get out. That is a rule I enforce even with other adults riding in my car. No seatbelt, no ride. It's a black-and-white issue for me.

 

~Julie

[tmulcahy]

My kids have kindly told an adult who was going to put two children in the front seat of a two passenger car that it was against the law. Under normal circumstances I would never ask my children to challenge an adult but this is safety we're talking about. As a ER nurse of 15 years I have seen horrific things happen due to inappropriate use seat belts. It is not a small matter!!! It only takes one bad move.

 

T