CC Keeping boys pure and offering a Pure community of fellowship

[johnandtinagilbert]

This isn't for me (yet), as this is not my situation, but I am interested in your perspective. I'm sure it will benefit me, though as a mom to teen boys (and a teen girl)

 

I would also greatly appreciate your scripture go to list regarding anything in the purity area.

 

Here's the situation: My dear friend has an almost 15yo., strapping, handsome son. There are girls in their co-op that are smitten and text him non-stop. He has kindly said, "I'm almost 15, you're 11, we have nothing in common. I'm really not much of a conversationalist. We can be friends, but I'm not interested in having a girl friend."

 

The texts keep coming. The girls try to guilt him into conversation and b/c he doesn't want to seem cruel, he sometimes gives in. I think these girls are making it difficult for him to maintain integrity and although he hasn't given in, I can certainly see him being worn down eventually.

 

We had a long talk (bf and I with our children). Very frank. Full of scriptural references (paraphrased, but not read directly) to not only our personal responsibility in chasteness, but also our community of Christ obligation to encourage others to be chaste in their actions, words and deeds by not being a stumbling block, but through edification in Christ.

 

I'm confident our children get it, as they continue to demonstrate with their words and their behaviors. Proud momma smile :D Our kids have No interest in intimate opposite sex relationships, beyond those that are really like family and we have "listened in" and overheard them speaking to each other, always in appropriate ways to encourage purity.

 

I have encouraged them both to follow the Math. 17 model and deal with this situation. Here's where you all come in.

 

When dear friend goes to the Mother's of these girls, it is important to her (and me) that she has scriptural backing. She should be able to clearly support her desire that not only should her son walk correctly, but also that these gooing girls behave appropriately toward her son. What are your verses that you would use in this situation? Please feel free to include purity, encouragement, stumbling block verses. I would love to make a list!

 

I would also like to get a list together to serve as study for our children, so they see we're getting this from God's word.

 

Thanks so much for sharing your verses and any wisdom you find appropriate. I appreciate the great wisdom on this board.

 

Df is willing to leave the co-op if things don't change, but would rather work through this situation, in love, if possible.

 

Many thanks.

[AuntieM]

This is not exactly what you asked, but the Bible does also tell us to flee from temptation. Perhaps if his phone contact information weren't available to those girls, they couldn't act on the temptation to call him. How have they gotten his number?

 

FWIW, I think your friend is doing the right, brave and proper thing in speaking with the parents of these young girls. I will read the other replies with interest.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I believe from the master list of co-op families. There was no invitation to, "Call me!" The boy is not a phone talker! He and my boys are close as brothers and their conversations are about 3 minutes long, and that's when there are important things to say. We live about an hour apart :)

[AuntieM]

There was no invitation to, "Call me!" The boy is not a phone talker!

 

 

I get it! My 14yos is what my 12yos calls a "chick magnet," too, and he does nothing to encourage them. Last year at co-op was interesting, and he did seem to become aware of girls for the first time as they paid attention to him, but like your guys, he has no intentions to have a girlfriend, date, or engage in silly conversation. He has no cell phone so that's not an issue, but as I said, I will be watching this thread because I'd like to be prepared in advance... I suspect there will be new challenges at co-op this year!

 

Maybe it's too late, but perhaps your friend could request that her son's text access not be listed in the directory, but he can provide it to teachers and friends as necessary with instructions not to share. I do realize the heart of the issue is to learn to navigate such situations, but it could be helpful if it didn't arise again, or at least less often.

 

Still watching for other replies. :lurk5:

[johnandtinagilbert]

They share a phone, so her cell, is his cell, is little brother's cell. The girls in ?? (at this point) have their own phones and I witnessed, as we spent a few days with them, the non-stop texting. The first time this happened she spoke to the mom, who had no clue. Now, we're on girl #2!?! Seems like time to address this as a whole issue.

 

I suspect there are a few things going on here.

1. We've mentioned here before that many purity conversations focus on girls staying pure b/c of boys chasing girls. It does go both ways and perhaps these moms have not considered that?!?!

 

2. Parents not being attentive to the tech habits of their children.

 

3. Lack of knowledge of her families perspective, which leads to the comment that like-minded Christian co-op is a Loooose term.

 

We don't think the families are diabolical, but this does need to be handled....with God's word. A person is more likely to respect the seriousness of this situation when the references come from God. At least we can hope so :):lurk5: I need this thread to take off.

[Halftime Hope]

We've worked and worked and worked on this area with our three teens.

(Not that there is an issue with them, but our family's choices are *so* different from the ones surrounding us in both our church and our homeschool communities.) And, yes, it does make it even more difficult when a child is physically attractive and or naturally gregarious.

 

We've discussed "making no provision for the flesh", being above reproach, fleeing youthful lusts, the reciprocal commands (all the "one another" commands), treating every one of the friends as brother and sisters in the Lord, and on and on.

 

Another concept that we have drawn on extensively is one that I must admit I don't care for the original source (those in the know will recognize it), but it is the idea of not defrauding each other. Defrauding can be defined as creating an expectation that you cannot righteously fulfill.

 

Finally, there are all kind of verses relating to purity and to what types of things we should think on, and what kinds of speech we should engage in. Maybe that will give you something to work with.

 

If it were me, I would not go into all the above with the families at co-op. I would simply ask the mothers to tell their daughters to stop texting and stop flirting with the son. Explain that 15 yo son is following his parents' instructions to prioritize excellence in academics, develop his walk with the Lord, and cultivate his family relationships, not invest in relationships with girls. Ask them to honor that.

 

hth

[Wyndie]

:lurk5:

[elfinbaby]

My oldest is 11 so we're not there yet but I wouldn't have any problem at all telling other parents that the phone number on the list is MY cell number that I allow my dc to use when necessary. I do not have time to respond to school girls' texts nor will I allow my dc to return texts that are not related to something particular - an event, a get together, a homework question, etc. No way.

 

My niece and nephews (8 - girl,10,12) have phones and I've scrolled through their texts out of curiosity. They are ridiculous! It's usually - Hey. And if there's not an immediate reply "Hey" again. There's some silly bf/gf talk with the 12 yr. old. They each have their own phones, of course, but I think it's ridiculous and difficult to supervise w/o keeping their phone for them (which is exactly what I'd do).

 

I respect that your friend would like to handle this with scripture. I would worry that, by bringing scriptures concerning purity to another mom's attention about her dd, she might feel wrongfully judged, yk? There might be something in those text messages that the parent needs to know about. If so, I'd share it but I would focus on my choice as ds's parent to keep his head in the books and on Christ, letting the other parent's know that ds wouldn't be replying to any unsolicited text messages or phone calls. Since this seems to be an issue in it's early stages, I'd keep it as light as possible. #1 Please let your dd know that I don't allow ds to return text messages unless the message is pertinent #2 Although he's almost 15, he's not interested in dating right now and we're encouraging him to seek the Lord in his decisions of future courtships. I might even add he's not comfortable with queries from girls just yet (and neither am I!!!).

 

I just wish parents weren't so lackadaisical about the whole texting issue. It's such a pet peeve of mine.

Edited August 13, 2009 by elfinbaby

[johnandtinagilbert]

I respect that your friend would like to handle this with scripture. I would worry that, by bringing scriptures concerning purity to another mom's attention about her dd, she might feel wrongfully judged, yk?

The approach she'll take will be exactly from her perspective as she understands God's word, and not mention a single individual. She plans on addressing the group of moms so she can put a stop to those currently texting and also cut off at the pass, anyone else from heading that way. She does not wish to embarrass or isolate. That's really why she wants to hit scriptural points and use very few of her own words. Basically, "Our family chooses ____, because of ____ scriptures. I respect your abilities to raise your dc as you see fit, I am simply asking you respect our families choice and keep the contact between our children specific. DS chooses to associate at co-op functions with the young ladies here, otherwise, please edify his decision to remain pure and ask your daughter not to text him and follow ______ scriptures as encouraging sisters in Christ."

 

She is a "older woman" in her co-op and her son is the oldest member, so we're hoping many moms are just not there yet and just didn't imagine they would have to face these issues at this point. She believes this will be an "Older women teach the younger woman" time. She is respected and loved in her group (she's really a beautiful and humble woman), so *hopefully* she won't offend. At the same time, I know she'll be very careful of her wording. She'll even write out what she wants to say so as not to mess it up :) She will proceed with caution.

[Danestress]

There are a lot about purity and other related issues, but I think it might just stir up a debate among parents whether texting a boy is a major purity issue. I'm not sure I would want to go there. I understand what you mean about people taking something more seriously if it comes "from God" but I think a lot of people would interpret this as coming "from one Mom's interpretation of what God says." kwim? Unless the texts have some content that is more than, "Waz up?" which seems to be the content of so much texting.

 

I would simply not respond to text messages or phone calls from numbers I don't recognize. Phoners can leave a message. You just call back people who aren't 11 year old girls:) If the same girl is texting or phoning multiple times, I would then just send an email or make a phone call to the parents saying, "Hey, it appears Janie has a crush on John. She's left 10 messages and 14 emails this week, and we haven't responded to them because John has explained to the girls that he prefers just to communicate with boys, but we are having to pay for the texts we receive. so I would appreciate if you would talk to her about that."

 

I don't have any daughters, but I do think it's so strange how girls seem to initiate so much of the communicating these days. My mom never let me call a boy. Ever. She always acted like that was a universally understood rule. I guess no more. She wasn't even a Christian - she just deeply impressed upon me that you don't. call. boys.

[the4Rs]

Just some quick thoughts.

 

1 Corinthians 13: 4-7. Love is patienct, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices iwth the truth. it alwasy pretects, always trusts, alwayss hopes, always perseveres." <-- think of it is platonic Christian love not romantic love...it could definitely apply here.

 

2 Corinthians 6:3, 4a & 6 "We put no stumbling block in anyone's path, so that our ministry will not be discredited. Rather as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: ...in purity, understanding, patience and kindness,; in teh Holy Spirit and in sincere love..."

 

Galations 5 7-8 "You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you."

 

Ephesians 5:3-16 I won't quote it but there is a LOT of good stuff in here about fleeing from even a hint of sexual immorality and living as children of light.

 

1 Peter 3:3-6 ( I know this pertains to wives but it should be well established before they are married, don't you think?) "YOur beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear."

 

Titus 2:3-7 "Likewsie, teach the older women to be revernt in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home...Similarly, encourage the young men to be self-controlled. In everything set them an example by doing what is good."

 

Hebrews 10: 24 "And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds."

 

If some of these do not pertain to the particular situation...I apologize. I know there are more...those just came to mind quickest.

 

I hope my son will grow up to self-controlled and pure as this young man is. And that my daughter will be self-controlled and pure as well.

[the4Rs]

Oh and I just did Secret Keeper: the delicate power of modesty by Dannah Gresh with my junior high girls sunday school class. There is a great section in the book that talks about girls' modesty being on the inside. They can look modest on the outside but if the inside (their hearts) doesn't match the outside it is a moot point. Great book about how girls have the power and it gives them healthy godly ways to keep that power under wraps.

 

These girls know they are flirting. It doesnt' have to be "I think you are cute" kind of texts to be flirting. They have some heart issues. Frankly at 11 or 12 they should be concerned with their friends and hobbies and not at all about boys much older than that.

[Scarlett]

If it were me, I would not go into all the above with the families at co-op. I would simply ask the mothers to tell their daughters to stop texting and stop flirting with the son.

hth

 

I agree. And add that the boy shares the phone with his siblings and it shouldn't be tied up for this type of things.

[johnandtinagilbert]

There are a lot about purity and other related issues, but I think it might just stir up a debate among parents whether texting a boy is a major purity issue. I'm not sure I would want to go there. I understand what you mean about people taking something more seriously if it comes "from God" but I think a lot of people would interpret this as coming "from one Mom's interpretation of what God says." kwim? Unless the texts have some content that is more than, "Waz up?" which seems to be the content of so much texting.

 

I would simply not respond to text messages or phone calls from numbers I don't recognize. Phoners can leave a message. You just call back people who aren't 11 year old girls:) If the same girl is texting or phoning multiple times, I would then just send an email or make a phone call to the parents saying, "Hey, it appears Janie has a crush on John. She's left 10 messages and 14 emails this week, and we haven't responded to them because John has explained to the girls that he prefers just to communicate with boys, but we are having to pay for the texts we receive. so I would appreciate if you would talk to her about that."

 

I don't have any daughters, but I do think it's so strange how girls seem to initiate so much of the communicating these days. My mom never let me call a boy. Ever. She always acted like that was a universally understood rule. I guess no more. She wasn't even a Christian - she just deeply impressed upon me that you don't. call. boys.

You mean there's no, "Thou shall not text to handsome boys." anywhere in the bible?:D I liked that!

 

I agree with you and she tried that. She has taken the approach you mentioned. It didn't work. The parents talked to the dd about texting, but apparently, they didn't understand where there dd was in her crush/puppy love. DD went on to talk to other girls in the co-op...the way chatty girls do...and speak against the poor boy b/c she had hurt feelings. He's so confused about girls and how they behave, it has actually helped his desire to Stay Away from girls! (laughing, but it is kinda sad) They went back to the parents and finally it stopped. Well, it started again and then the next girl starts the same nonsense. At this point, she thinks step 3 of the Matt 17 model is in order, only she is choosing to do this in a non-person specific fashion so she can cut off both girls and hopefully bring this issue to other parents so it doesn't happen again either to anyone else, or with some other girl and her son. The one girl in particular seems to be a bit boy crazy and her interests may be moving on to the next boy.

 

All the boys in the older group are in agreement, btw. No girlfriends, just a bunch of friends hangin' out. They rarely spend time outside of co-op and youth group with any of the girls, save the ones that visit as families with their brothers.

 

Where we are now is the next step in the Math. 17 model.

1. approach the individual.

2. approach with other church members

3. approach the church as a whole

 

Texting a boy is not the issue, but rather the spirit/intent behind it. Constant badgering, disregard to his plain lack of interest, the public giggling, whispering, ignoring pleas to back off, etc. This co-op is meant to provide Christian fellowship for the children and this kind of behavior is not providing a biblical atmosphere where Christians edify each other and encourage one another in Christian qualities. People don't need to do things her way in their own homes, but it does make sense in this situation, at the very least, that the children (and maybe the parents?) here need to learn how to respect her families desire to remain chaste according to their families model, and not encourage otherwise. She (and I) believe this is a biblical perspective.

 

FWIW....my girls won't be calling boys! I'm old school in that one, for sure!

[Supertechmom]

My oldest is 11 so we're not there yet but I wouldn't have any problem at all telling other parents that the phone number on the list is MY cell number that I allow my dc to use when necessary. I do not have time to respond to school girls' texts nor will I allow my dc to return texts that are not related to something particular - an event, a get together, a homework question, etc. No way.

 

I'd keep it as light as possible. #1 Please let your dd know that I don't allow ds to return text messages unless the message is pertinent #2 Although he's almost 15, he's not interested in dating right now and we're encouraging him to seek the Lord in his decisions of future courtships. I might even add he's not comfortable with queries from girls just yet (and neither am I!!!).

 

 

 

There are a lot about purity and other related issues, but I think it might just stir up a debate among parents whether texting a boy is a major purity issue. I'm not sure I would want to go there. I understand what you mean about people taking something more seriously if it comes "from God" but I think a lot of people would interpret this as coming "from one Mom's interpretation of what God says." kwim? Unless the texts have some content that is more than, "Waz up?" which seems to be the content of so much texting.

 

I would simply not respond to text messages or phone calls from numbers I don't recognize. Phoners can leave a message. You just call back people who aren't 11 year old girls:) If the same girl is texting or phoning multiple times, I would then just send an email or make a phone call to the parents saying, "Hey, it appears Janie has a crush on John. She's left 10 messages and 14 emails this week, and we haven't responded to them because John has explained to the girls that he prefers just to communicate with boys, but we are having to pay for the texts we receive. so I would appreciate if you would talk to her about that."

 

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: Either of the above I think would be a better way to handle it. Telling me your life choices and path and why based on biblical scripture would simply make me feel like I am not as a holy and Christian as ya'll.

 

 

These girls know they are flirting. It doesnt' have to be "I think you are cute" kind of texts to be flirting. They have some heart issues. Frankly at 11 or 12 they should be concerned with their friends and hobbies and not at all about boys much older than that.

 

I agree. And add that the boy shares the phone with his siblings and it shouldn't be tied up for this type of things.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I don't think this is the right time to hold a "we've chosen this path" talk. Their behavior is atrocious and it doesn't have to do so much with purity as 11 year old girls without phone text or phone call etiquette feeling their "girl Power". 11 year old girls shouldn't call 15 year old boys. Period. There's nothing biblical about that. I would be put off by such a talk as you are describing and would feel offended. And I would question why didn't you just talk to me about it instead of bringing it to the front of the group? Because once you start this talk, everyone is going to ask afterward who is texting and people are going to find out who it was even if your friend never mentions the persons in question. Talk will abound and there will be lots of whispering about "wow Where did this come from and who was causing this" They will go home and ask their kids and it may blow up in ways you never thought instead of just dealing directly with the girls in question.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Can I tag a question on to your question? AKA hijack your post?

 

What do you do when the ages are reversed? I have a gregarious, handsome 11yo who has 15yo &16yo girls (!!!) swarming all over him. This is very concerning to me. Any ideas? But these girls aren't necessarily Christian girls - just other girls here in the neighborhood. I really am at a loss as to how to approach this. (Ironically, they aren't after my 13yo's. Those boys have made it quite clear that they aren't interested. LOL)

 

Ew. After feeling sick....I can't imagine the interest in an 11yo, boy?! Nothing on your ds, just sayin' At 11, although my boys were mentally mature, they were still 11yo boys who wanted to play games, sports, etc. I'd be watchin' closely, encouraging ds to speak plainly and if necessary speak to the girls myself. I'd ask them, "Why are you interested in my elem/middle school son?

Ew. The thought makes me queasy. Really. I just imagine those girls I mentioned, being those girls you mentioned in 5 years. Ew.

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

I don't think this is the right time to hold a "we've chosen this path" talk. Their behavior is atrocious and it doesn't have to do so much with purity as 11 year old girls without phone text or phone call etiquette feeling their "girl Power". 11 year old girls shouldn't call 15 year old boys. Period. There's nothing biblical about that. I would be put off by such a talk as you are describing and would feel offended. And I would question why didn't you just talk to me about it instead of bringing it to the front of the group? Because once you start this talk, everyone is going to ask afterward who is texting and people are going to find out who it was even if your friend never mentions the persons in question. Talk will abound and there will be lots of whispering about "wow Where did this come from and who was causing this" They will go home and ask their kids and it may blow up in ways you never thought instead of just dealing directly with the girls in question.

You bring up a very good point. Perhaps having the scriptures and speaking with the families in question and the co-op leader, then, since she has Already spoken to the one mom and briefly with the other mom. She most def. would not want to initiate gossip or cause division. That is not the point. The whole point is to provide an environment that is peaceful and respectful for everyone.

 

Really, honestly, truly not being holier than thou. We both recognize our own err in more than we'd hope for in child raising. Thinking more along the lines of experience brings wisdom. We're getting to these things sooner than the other moms in this group, they really just may not know or have not considered this perspective.

[Supertechmom]

You mean there's no, "Thou shall not text to handsome boys." anywhere in the bible?:D I liked that!

 

I agree with you and she tried that. She has taken the approach you mentioned. It didn't work. The parents talked to the dd about texting, but apparently, they didn't understand where there dd was in her crush/puppy love. DD went on to talk to other girls in the co-op...the way chatty girls do...and speak against the poor boy b/c she had hurt feelings. He's so confused about girls and how they behave, it has actually helped his desire to Stay Away from girls! (laughing, but it is kinda sad) They went back to the parents and finally it stopped. Well, it started again and then the next girl starts the same nonsense. At this point, she thinks step 3 of the Matt 17 model is in order, only she is choosing to do this in a non-person specific fashion so she can cut off both girls and hopefully bring this issue to other parents so it doesn't happen again either to anyone else, or with some other girl and her son. The one girl in particular seems to be a bit boy crazy and her interests may be moving on to the next boy.

 

All the boys in the older group are in agreement, btw. No girlfriends, just a bunch of friends hangin' out. They rarely spend time outside of co-op and youth group with any of the girls, save the ones that visit as families with their brothers.

 

Where we are now is the next step in the Math. 17 model.

1. approach the individual.

2. approach with other church members

3. approach the church as a whole

 

Texting a boy is not the issue, but rather the spirit/intent behind it. Constant badgering, disregard to his plain lack of interest, the public giggling, whispering, ignoring pleas to back off, etc. This co-op is meant to provide Christian fellowship for the children and this kind of behavior is not providing a biblical atmosphere where Christians edify each other and encourage one another in Christian qualities. People don't need to do things her way in their own homes, but it does make sense in this situation, at the very least, that the children (and maybe the parents?) here need to learn how to respect her families desire to remain chaste according to their families model, and not encourage otherwise. She (and I) believe this is a biblical perspective.

 

FWIW....my girls won't be calling boys! I'm old school in that one, for sure!

 

 

We must have posted at the same time!! Sorry! That adds more to it. Then ignore my post. Sounds like it has all ready opened up far more than you wanted. Could you teach a purity or etiquette class that would do what you are saying? I'm just still concerned how other members will take that type of talk. Especially if their girls aren't involved in and aren't having this problem. Tuff one you've got here!

[Supertechmom]

You bring up a very good point. Perhaps having the scriptures and speaking with the families in question and the co-op leader, then, since she has Already spoken to the one mom and briefly with the other mom. She most def. would not want to initiate gossip or cause division. That is not the point. The whole point is to provide an environment that is peaceful and respectful for everyone.

 

Really, honestly, truly not being holier than thou. We both recognize our own err in more than we'd hope for in child raising. Thinking more along the lines of experience brings wisdom. We're getting to these things sooner than the other moms in this group, they really just may not know or have not considered this perspective.

 

 

I believe ya!!! I'm getting there ahead of the others too and it does open your eyes! They're not there and when you're not you are just clueless. :001_smile:I shudder to think how I came off a few years ago to the moms that were in the stages we are at now. :grouphug::grouphug:

[johnandtinagilbert]

We must have posted at the same time!! Sorry! That adds more to it. Then ignore my post. Sounds like it has all ready opened up far more than you wanted. Could you teach a purity or etiquette class that would do what you are saying? I'm just still concerned how other members will take that type of talk. Especially if their girls aren't involved in and aren't having this problem. Tuff one you've got here!

 

Your post did bring an important line of thought. We don't want to offend unnecessarily.

 

And it is a tough one! That's why we want scripture, scripture, scripture. Not a dissertation on her view of purity or an example of how holy her family is...just hey, here's where we stand b/c of what we see in scriptures and we don't want our kid, who is not ready for girlfriends, feeling pressure. Please edify our son!

 

And sorry to all for going back and forth b/t we and I...I'm driving myself crazy! She and I have really been hashing this out and talking together with our dc, so I feel this is as much for me as it is for her.

 

If only she hadn't moved away and we could just co-op together...we'd not even have to deal with this! :)

[Jean in Newcastle]

Instead of going from a purity angle, I would go more from a silly/frivolous angle. While I certainly think that wholesome humor and even silliness at times is ok, there is a certain kind of silliness that is not. That is the kind that the fool follows.

 

One verse:

 

Ephesians 5:3-5 (New American Standard Bible)

 

3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;

 

4and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

 

5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

 

Another:

 

Proverbs 10:10 (New American Standard Bible)

 

 

10He who winks the eye causes trouble,

And a babbling fool will be ruined.

 

(And yes, I know that people could be highly offended if they think that you are calling their daughters "babbling fools".)

 

Another:

 

Proverbs 12:13 (New American Standard Bible)

 

 

13An evil man is ensnared by the transgression of his lips,

But the righteous will escape from trouble.

 

Another:

 

Proverbs 21:23 (New American Standard Bible)

 

 

23He who guards his mouth and his tongue,

Guards his soul from troubles.

 

Put positively:

 

1 Corinthians 15:34 (New American Standard Bible)

 

34Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God I speak this to your shame.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Jean in Newcastle

[johnandtinagilbert]

Instead of going from a purity angle, I would go more from a silly/frivolous angle. While I certainly think that wholesome humor and even silliness at times is ok, there is a certain kind of silliness that is not. That is the kind that the fool follows.

 

One verse:

 

Ephesians 5:3-5 (New American Standard Bible)

 

3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;

 

4and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

 

5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Thank you, wise Jean. I will def. note this. Very good point.

 

Everyone, you see, I love the wisdom here. I appreciate pointing out where I might cause trouble and also for sharing your wisdom. My heart in this matter is to serve everybody and keep us all with right minds for Christ.

[Quad Shot Academy]

I happen to agree with your beliefs on the matter of girls/boys, flirting/texting, but I can imagine that we also disagree on some biblical matters also. If you came to me with scriptures and a long talk about why your way was right, I would be very offended. OTOH, if you came to me and told me that your family was following a certain practice and there were some issues going on with me, my family or the co-op in general, I would be happy to alter my family's behavior to not be a stumbling block for your beliefs, but if you are talking to me like your beliefs are right and mine are wrong, it is not going to go over well. ;) You might be surprised that these parents may have no issues with their dd behavior and might even be worried if dd didn't have a crush. I know quite a few Christian families that encourage boy/girl socializing and crushes because they do not want to add more to the bible than they read it to say: no s*x before marriage. Now, if your friend is a leader in the co-op and wants to make some rule changes, that might be a way to handle it. Another idea would be for a leader of the co-op to call all the preteen girl's mothers, explain that the co-op was thinking about instituting some policies and ask them how they feel about boy/girl issues.

[Jill- OK]

:iagree::iagree::iagree: Either of the above I think would be a better way to handle it. Telling me your life choices and path and why based on biblical scripture would simply make me feel like I am not as a holy and Christian as ya'll.

 

 

 

 

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I don't think this is the right time to hold a "we've chosen this path" talk. Their behavior is atrocious and it doesn't have to do so much with purity as 11 year old girls without phone text or phone call etiquette feeling their "girl Power". 11 year old girls shouldn't call 15 year old boys. Period. There's nothing biblical about that. I would be put off by such a talk as you are describing and would feel offended. And I would question why didn't you just talk to me about it instead of bringing it to the front of the group? Because once you start this talk, everyone is going to ask afterward who is texting and people are going to find out who it was even if your friend never mentions the persons in question. Talk will abound and there will be lots of whispering about "wow Where did this come from and who was causing this" They will go home and ask their kids and it may blow up in ways you never thought instead of just dealing directly with the girls in question.

 

I can understand Scriptural basis for the path that the boy's family has chosen, but this is simply a "Your Daughter Isn't Getting What We're Saying" situation. It should be handled that way, rather than as a "You Aren't Acting Biblically" situation.

 

As others have said, this sort of stuff--texting boys, etc.--isn't addressed specifically in Scripture. Purity is, but there's a whole spectrum of the view of "purity" that doesn't necessarily follow their specific choices. Sure, you can go at it from the "You're not helping my son follow his path"...but honestly, he's going to have to learn to deal with a lot more than 12 year old girls texting him, if he's going to remain pure in this world until marriage. I'd focus on helping him find ways to deal with it, and I'd only step in--sending my own text message to the girl, or calling their mothers--if totally necessary. Which it sounds like it is, unfortunately.

 

My umbrage would be taken from the girls not listening, in other words. A possible plan of action for me would be "Tell them not to text you, you're more comfortable speaking in person, in a group", then sending my OWN text message to the offender, "Johnny shares this phone with me, his mother, and his little brother, and I believe he's asked you not to text him. Thank you", and then calling the mother, "Both my son and I have asked your daughter not to text him. Please ask her to respect our wishes". (If anything inappropriate--according to MY definition of inappropriate, which probably differs from your friend's--was texted, though, I'd jump to this step, and "courtesy copy" the text message. I'd do this for my adolescent son's protection, more than anything, but I'm getting the feeling that what your friend is dealing with is just flirty, "Hw R U?" type stuff, rather than R-rated material.)

 

Lather, rinse, repeat, for each girl that called.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Jill, OK

[johnandtinagilbert]

I happen to agree with your beliefs on the matter of girls/boys, flirting/texting, but I can imagine that we also disagree on some biblical matters also. If you came to me with scriptures and a long talk about why your way was right, I would be very offended. OTOH, if you came to me and told me that your family was following a certain practice and there were some issues going on with me, my family or the co-op in general, I would be happy to alter my family's behavior to not be a stumbling block for your beliefs, but if you are talking to me like your beliefs are right and mine are wrong, it is not going to go over well. ;) You might be surprised that these parents may have no issues with their dd behavior and might even be worried if dd didn't have a crush. I know quite a few Christian families that encourage boy/girl socializing and crushes because they do not want to add more to the bible than they read it to say: no s*x before marriage. Now, if your friend is a leader in the co-op and wants to make some rule changes, that might be a way to handle it. Another idea would be for a leader of the co-op to call all the preteen girl's mothers, explain that the co-op was thinking about instituting some policies and ask them how they feel about boy/girl issues.

Not approaching from "we are right" view, but def like highlighted. We just want to have scriptural wording so it comes straight from the Lord.

 

And that is a good suggestion.

 

Not surprised, though. I actually know someone who runs a dating circle in her middle school Christian Private school...WOW!

[johnandtinagilbert]

..but honestly, he's going to have to learn to deal with a lot more than 12 year old girls texting him, if he's going to remain pure in this world until marriage. I'd focus on helping him find ways to deal with it,

Lather, rinse, repeat, for each girl that called.

Definitely teaching on our end. Daily. At e v e r y opportunity. Again he's walking accordingly,giving all the right words, clues, she's moving through also, just to no avail.

 

Like the highlighted :)

[Sophia]

I haven't read the other responses, just wanted to say we had a similar problem but handled it differently.

Ds 15 also gets his fair attention from girls. When dh and I discussed how to approach this, we felt it would not be appropriate to go to other parents because we knew we would not appreciate parents telling us how to parent, but more importantly, ds is only going to get better looking, girls are going to keep giving him attention, and he needs to know how to deal with it with integrity.

I know your friends ds thinks it would be cruel not to respond to texts, but it's actually crueler and perhaps misleading to the girls if he does.

Ds has made it clear to his friends that he doesn't date and that's that.

He does have friends who are girls, but I've listened to their conversations, and it's just friendly, not flirtatious.

Also, dh really had to take the lead on this. Teen boys need to hear from their fathers and other men how to honorably treat women. It really does have a different impact on them.

I understand your friend wanting to leave the co-op if it doesn't stop, but if her ds is firm and ignores the girls chasing him, they will stop or change their approach. Ds has many friends (and their parents) who do not understand his commitment to courtship but do respect his views and accept that as just a part of who he is.

[Carol in Cal.]

You might be surprised that these parents may have no issues with their dd behavior and might even be worried if dd didn't have a crush. it. QUOTE]

 

At our church, the pastor's wife asks little girls as young as 8 whether they have a boyfriend or not and whether he is cute. I think that's gross and unfortunate, and the kids far more self-conscious around each other than they would be otherwise, but she is a lovely woman--she just has a different outlook than I.

[hillfarm]

If the ages were reversed and a bunch of 15-16 yo boys were texting an 11yo girl, then everyone would be rightfully outraged and claiming sexual harrassment. And that is what this is. Fortunately (or unfortunately), the young girls are not clear on what that is and why it is wrong. I would request that the coop leadership do a very strongly worded announcement on the topic and be sure that it is clear that disciplinary action will be taken regardless of what sex the aggressor is.

 

I am unclear on the technology involved, as we have cell phones but don't do texting. If the son and the mother get the same messages, then I would think that she could be the one to respond, and send a message that her ds does not participate in casual texting to both the girl and her parents' phones. Perhaps she could include Scripture references attached to the message. Is there any way to block the calls of the girls who refuse to obey the parent's request?

 

Honestly, I would be furious. Anyone trying to cause my child to stumble would be at the top of my Bad List. It would matter little whether my child was male or female in this case. Since the perpetrators are children themselves, the first warning to cease and desist would be politely worded (although sent to both child and parent). The second one would be sent directly to the parent, perhaps cc'd to the girl, and would be worded rather bluntly and firmly. "You have previously been asked to stop texting my son and yet we continue to receive messages from you. Should these unwanted messages not stop now, we will have to meet with your family to determine how this harrassment should be handled." The son does not deserve to be tormented and tempted by others and his parent should take whatever steps necessary to protect him.

[elfinbaby]

Are these girls being flirtatious at school? Or is it just the texting? It sounds like a bunch if "busy missies" to me, lol! There's just no doubt in my mind that, if things were this intense, my ds wouldn't even know that he'd received a text b/c I would not tell him. OR I'd answer the text myself "Soinso, this cell does not belong to my son. Please know that I do not pass along texts to him unless it's imperative."

 

It's unfortunate but, Christian or not, parents don't seem to raise an eyebrow these days about texts. I think some moms are going to wonder what all the hullabaloo is about. My sisters and I have 4 boys that fall behind each other by a year. We grew up in the same family with the same Christian background. They are Christian. The way we're raising our children is completely different. They are sooooo much more lax than me.

 

How hard is it for him to just go about his business? Are there actual issues at school? Surely he can avoid the girls. And, as for anything else, his parent's can be the gatekeepers.

[Quad Shot Academy]

That's why we want scripture, scripture, scripture. Not a dissertation on her view of purity or an example of how holy her family is...just hey, here's where we stand b/c of what we see in scriptures and we don't want our kid, who is not ready for girlfriends, feeling pressure. Please edify our son!

 

 

I am not sure if it is possible to go to someone with a list of scriptures and tell them your point of view, w/o it being a right/wrong issue. It is possible to go to someone and say, "There is an issue that has come up with Johnny and I need your help in dealing with it. We don't want Johnny to start the whole boy/girl thing yet. We have very strong biblical feelings on this. But there have been some girls flirting and texting in our co-op and we would appreciate it if you could talk to your girls and explain that not all families do the dating/boyfriend/girlfriend thing." Maybe then someone would ask why you feel that way and you can whip out with scriptures, but presenting scriptures w/o people asking would come across as offensive to me. Just my 2 cents, as someone who has been on the receiving end of a conversation like that. ;) Or one of the girls' mothers might sit down and talk with her daughter and find out she is much more into boys than the mom knew, or a mom might come to you, like I would, and say, "Please tell me if that was my daughter, because I will need to address this with her."

 

Good luck, this is one of those hard life situations that makes me want to keep my kids indoors all day! :tongue_smilie:

[johnandtinagilbert]

Are these girls being flirtatious at school? Or is it just the texting? "

 

How hard is it for him to just go about his business? Are there actual issues at school? Surely he can avoid the girls. And, as for anything else, his parent's can be the gatekeepers.

 

Flirting in co-op. And when he doesn't respond to their advances, they bad mouth him, in addition to laying on the guilt. When my friend walked up and heard the bad mouthing, she kindly corrected the girl and brought it to her mother.

 

Tight, revealing clothing. Heavy (although not super heavy) make-up (1 of the 2 girls). Phone calls are in addition to the texting. Some encouragement by one of the moms. This is why she is finds it appropriate to comment to the whole group. He has removed himself entirely from any social contact beyond hello, making sure he sits away from her. I really think he's done all he can, other than giving in a time or two when they lay on the guilt texts.

[johnandtinagilbert]

If the ages were reversed and a bunch of 15-16 yo boys were texting an 11yo girl, then everyone would be rightfully outraged and claiming sexual harrassment. And that is what this is. Fortunately (or unfortunately), the young girls are not clear on what that is and why it is wrong. I would request that the coop leadership do a very strongly worded announcement on the topic and be sure that it is clear that disciplinary action will be taken regardless of what sex the aggressor is.

 

I am unclear on the technology involved, as we have cell phones but don't do texting. If the son and the mother get the same messages, then I would think that she could be the one to respond, and send a message that her ds does not participate in casual texting to both the girl and her parents' phones. Perhaps she could include Scripture references attached to the message. Is there any way to block the calls of the girls who refuse to obey the parent's request?

 

Honestly, I would be furious. Anyone trying to cause my child to stumble would be at the top of my Bad List. It would matter little whether my child was male or female in this case. Since the perpetrators are children themselves, the first warning to cease and desist would be politely worded (although sent to both child and parent). The second one would be sent directly to the parent, perhaps cc'd to the girl, and would be worded rather bluntly and firmly. "You have previously been asked to stop texting my son and yet we continue to receive messages from you. Should these unwanted messages not stop now, we will have to meet with your family to determine how this harrassment should be handled." The son does not deserve to be tormented and tempted by others and his parent should take whatever steps necessary to protect him.

 

Thank you for voicing strongly what I was timid to say. I, myself, am guilty of feeling the need to protect my girls differently than my boys, so I understand this. My dear friend has only boys and is troubled that this is such a non-issue b/c he's a boy. His purity is just as important before God as any girls.

 

Thank you for at least understanding that frustration.

[elfinbaby]

Older young people getting involved with much younger peers is a little different and more predatory in my mind. While I'm certainly not defending this texting non-sense, these are young, immature girls whose parent's don't seem to be too concerned about modest, chaste behavior. If I were the girls parents I'd be livid w/my dd. There's such a difference in just a yr. or two at these ages. For instance, we recently had to tell our 11 yr. old he wouldn't be playing with the newly 13 yr. old neighbor kid. It wasn't just b/c of the age - there were situations/events/behavior that occurred that we disapproved of. However, after we thought about it, it was an elem. kid (our ds) playing w/a jr. high kid. Not gonna happen in our family. But reversing the sexes - a couple of little boys texting a teen girl - would make me feel exactly the same way. Unfortunately, I don't know any little boys who like to text older girls, giggle about it, and then give the girl the cold shoulder b/c she wasn't giving them the attention they wanted! Ugh.

 

What's really scary is what would those little girls' mother's be saying if this young man (and his parents) were not so honorable and allowed him to flirt, carry on, and show interest? Do they really want their dd's dating an almost 15 yr. old? Ick - I think the op said one of the mom's was encouraging her dd.

 

I think I'd be looking for another group that was more my speed. If most of the co-op leaned toward relaxed boy/girl relationships and it was really effecting my kid, I'd just move on. It's a shame. It sounds like he has friends he likes to see there but what's best for him. Are a few bad apples going to ruin the bunch? I know the mom is trying to handle this but I'm afraid it's not going to go over well. Plus, the coordinator/director can't really dictate what happens outside of the co-op.

 

Hmmmm, it's a thinker. I'm so thrilled that there are parents out there that are concerned about this type of issue but sad that they are in the minority. It's discouraging.

Edited August 13, 2009 by elfinbaby

[elfinbaby]

Okay, here's an idea. What if, somehow, the director was able to make a general announcement that there have been some issues with girls/boys persuing relationships beyond "just friends." To address these issues appropriately, would the interested child's parent's mind speaking to the other parent's to get permission for texting, talking, etc. This would be a policy to keep all our children accountable to themselves, their parent's, and God. Etc. The phone numbers in the directory were meant primarily for the parent's to be able to communicate and we'd like to keep it that way unless both parent's have given specific permission otherwise. The director could share some scriptures that have inspired her and then say a prayer to ask for God's blessing in the matter.

 

It seems kind of silly but sounded good in my head, lol. I'm sure it could be worded much better than that - I'm brain dead doing lesson plans:tongue_smilie:. However, if, through her announcement, she could make it very clear that this is necessary and for everyone's benefit (not to mention their comfort), it might work. Then there might be more leeway for the mom to let the dd and the parent's know - my son is off limits.

Edited August 13, 2009 by elfinbaby

[hillfarm]

I'm in a bit of a blunt mood today, so I hope I do not unintentionally offend anyone.

 

My dd is 10. I have met many other girls around her age (10-12) who act VERY worldly and while they may not comprehend the long range implications of their behavior, they absolutely ARE aware of the immediate impacts of what they are doing and why. I occasionally wonder if they are the girls who grow up to be the 15yo Lolitas in stories who do unwise things with 18yo young men and then cry statutory rape if things don't work out well. Unfortunately these days it seems that innocence is lost at an alarmingly early age.

 

Perhaps these girls are just exploring their new-found sexual power. But I would never allow my child to be used as a literal boy-toy for them to sharpen their claws on. I doubt they have malicious intent, but what they are doing is wrong and hurtful, regardless. They are treating a fellow human being like an object, and subjecting him to their lusts and affections without regard for his best interests. How is it that we see it as wrong when a 22yo office secretary is the subject being degraded but a 15yo boy is supposed to ignore, handle, or flee the situation?

 

If we want things to change in this country, then we need to be the ones to stand up and start the changes. Sexual misconduct is not okay, regardless of who is involved. All people have a right to not be harrassed. Humans have the capability to control their hormones and should be expected to do so, or if they are very young and just learning self control, should be controlled by their parents. Make your expectations in this arena higher than those of society at large and perhaps you might be able to influence a tiny shift to the better. Which combined with my tiny shift, and those of many other readers here, could some day amount to a real difference. Just let things slide on their continued downward path and your children will face worse than we did. And our grandchildren will face horrors we never imagined. I am tired of being PC and non-offensive. I'm ready to call a sin a sin and hold it up to the revealing light of day. (I realize I am the guilty party as often as others but I am at least trying to improve.) We have to save this world for our children--and I mean by removing behavioral trash just as much as chemical and plastics pollution!

[johnandtinagilbert]

I just got off the phone with my dear friend. She is grateful for the responses. I have linked the thread to her so she can check it out.

 

She added one more ~sigh~ to the lot. The first girl, and more aggressive of the two, is the daughter to the founder and co-leader of the group. UGH!

 

She did say there are more "courtship" minded families then not, so she thinks the group as a whole would be responsive.

 

She has a conversation planned for tomorrow with the mother of the second child.

 

She so appreciates all the scriptural references thusfar and is pleased to see many go beyond purity and into speech and generally Godly living.

 

I too appreciate this very much.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I'm in a bit of a blunt mood today, so I hope I do not unintentionally offend anyone.

 

My dd is 10. I have met many other girls around her age (10-12) who act VERY worldly and while they may not comprehend the long range implications of their behavior, they absolutely ARE aware of the immediate impacts of what they are doing and why. I occasionally wonder if they are the girls who grow up to be the 15yo Lolitas in stories who do unwise things with 18yo young men and then cry statutory rape if things don't work out well. Unfortunately these days it seems that innocence is lost at an alarmingly early age.

 

Perhaps these girls are just exploring their new-found sexual power. But I would never allow my child to be used as a literal boy-toy for them to sharpen their claws on. I doubt they have malicious intent, but what they are doing is wrong and hurtful, regardless. They are treating a fellow human being like an object, and subjecting him to their lusts and affections without regard for his best interests. How is it that we see it as wrong when a 22yo office secretary is the subject being degraded but a 15yo boy is supposed to ignore, handle, or flee the situation?

 

If we want things to change in this country, then we need to be the ones to stand up and start the changes. Sexual misconduct is not okay, regardless of who is involved. All people have a right to not be harrassed. Humans have the capability to control their hormones and should be expected to do so, or if they are very young and just learning self control, should be controlled by their parents. Make your expectations in this arena higher than those of society at large and perhaps you might be able to influence a tiny shift to the better. Which combined with my tiny shift, and those of many other readers here, could some day amount to a real difference. Just let things slide on their continued downward path and your children will face worse than we did. And our grandchildren will face horrors we never imagined. I am tired of being PC and non-offensive. I'm ready to call a sin a sin and hold it up to the revealing light of day. (I realize I am the guilty party as often as others but I am at least trying to improve.) We have to save this world for our children--and I mean by removing behavioral trash just as much as chemical and plastics pollution!

:iagree: It's so hard to walk the line between encouragement and offense, particularly in group settings.

 

This sort of "like-minded" drama (tongue and cheek) is one reason I stay away from Co-ops. For df, her boys are thriving from being in a group, so staying out is not her preference.

 

Any prayers would be appreciated for her talk tomorrow and the one with the co-op leaders and/or group.

[phathui5]

Tight, revealing clothing. Heavy (although not super heavy) make-up (1 of the 2 girls).

 

Could the co-op come up with a dress code?

[johnandtinagilbert]

Could the co-op come up with a dress code?

not sure.

[elfinbaby]

Our dress code was super easy - collared shirts, knee length shorts/skorts. Moms were asked to dress modestly - no spaghetti straps, no revealing shirts/skirts/shorts. We didn't have a single problem except for the occasional "Remember to wear collared shirts."

 

For simplicity we went to everyone wearing navy polo's this year. Bottoms could be whatever as long as they are knee length.

 

This is going to be so tough w/the dd being part of the founding family. Hopefully, the mom can listen with an open heart and find a way to end the problem for everyone's sake.

[Orthodox6]

Only a partial solution offered herein. (Frankly, I would pull out of the co-op and find more compatible people; however, that is my own style, and not that of others. Therefore, I am not suggesting departure as a solution.)

 

Although some will deem my partial solution draconian, I would block the text-messaging function on all family cell phones. Text-messaging is NOT NECESSARY for modern communication. It costs money, too. If the target party is available to answer his or her cell phone, s/he shall do so. If not, then voice mail suffices. (We block all "chat" and "instant messaging" on our home computer, too. E-mail suffices.)

 

[Not one of my children resorted to therapy because of our rules ! :) ]