s/o those who don't allow daiting, do you teach safer sex?

[Lovedtodeath]

 

:001_huh: I'm sure I'm misunderstanding. You don't mean insisting that the rapist use a condom, do you?

I have actually heard of that working, though I'm sure it doesn't in more cases that it does. I wondered what she meant by this as well.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Okay, heads up parents.

 

YES, kids have sex (and do everything but) in movie theaters. They did 20 years ago and they still do today.

 

They also do it on buses.

They also do it in churches.

They also do it on mission trips.

They also do it in the game room upstairs while siblings are nearby.

They also do it while "on a walk."

They also do it at the park.

They also do it on the way back from a football game.

They also do it at school.

They also do it when there doesn't seem to be a moment they could have.

 

A parent is naive and setting themselves up if they think for ONE MOMENT that their kid could not be doing it. It is even more problematic if they don't know it can be done just about anywhere.

 

And by "it" above, I do mean sex but more often the "everything but."

 

Kids do not need to be ALONE to do it. They don't need a lot of time either.

 

Now ideally, this information just isn't something we need more than a cursory knowledge of but....

 

Remember when some idiot posted about a 12yo getting pregnant at a co-op class and that others were having sex there also? The reason the discussion turned the way it did was because a LOT of us know it is a VERY possible situation. Based on what I have seen, I'd actually be surprised if "it" (again, something quite sexual, maybe but not necessarily including intercourse) didn't.

 

Anyway, kids have hormones going wild as teens. They tend to not think things through very thoroughly. They don't understand the real risks involved (and I'm talking more than just disease/pregnancy). And they think it won't happen to them. There is just so much going on. And they fall into believing they are the only ones that aren't doing such things (when in fact, even by 19, 30% still haven't and that number is considerably larger for a 17yo and more so still for a 15 and esp a 13yr old).

 

But moms, be aware, it doesn't take long and it doesn't have to be all that secluded of an area. Some of the most controlled and "protected" teens I have known are the ones that have found the most trouble....

 

Thank you. I am continually amazed when parents don't believe "it" could be happening in their respective religious environments, the movies, etc. I know all the naughty things I did at the movies, at work, in a car, at school...anywhere my bf could get his hands on me, he did and I let him. I am So Very Fortunate I have never contracted anything or had any babies during high school or college...so fortunate.

 

We have, since they were tiny, showed affection to one another (dh & I) and always said husbands and wives can show affection (naming whatever it was). It's for husbands and wives...said a million times.

 

We have taught them that the purpose of courting or dating is to find a mate. I ask them, "Are you ready to start a family? Are you prepared to get a job and support your wife? Are you ready to have babies and manage your home?" They, of course, reply,"No." Then I say, "Then you're not ready to date/court. That is the purpose -- to find a mate."

 

I have and will continue to show graphically disgusting pictures of stis and stds These are the very real consequences of sex outside of the marriage bed. I want to be sure they know the whole truth. Every disgusting detail. Not everything goes away like a cold. Someone asked me why I would use a fear tactic. I don't see it that way. It's the cold, hard truth. 1 in 3 people have herpes...1 in 3!!!!! (according to the commercial for herpes meds I see regularly) I don't want them thinking they can get away with sex and not reap consequence. They see the results of teen pregnancy and how dreams are often shattered b/c of it. They know the real world results of sin and at this point, they don't want any part of it.

 

My mom has contracted vaginal cancer from someone 35 years ago giving her vaginal warts (one was dormant and has resurfaced as cancer). Cancer, people. A real life consequence from sex outside the marriage bed.

 

We share the gift from God that lies within the marriage bed, so they understand sexual relations b/t husband and wives are truly beautiful, with the consequence of blessings (children).

 

Sex outside of the bed is sin and sin brings death (all the sti, std).

 

I will teach them that condemns are not fool proof. How birth control changes their bodies. (We do not believe in birth control and consider our decision of vasectomy many years ago to be the worst decision we have Ever made).

 

We are starting a health/bible study this year to specifically tackle this issue in a more formal learning way, to reenforce the foundation laid.

 

We have sleepovers, but I am all over them :) Doors are never closed and there is No Way they'll ever go anywhere alone while living in my house. At least while they're in their teens. When they start college, I will pop in until I know I can trust them.

 

Finally, valued beyond measure are the open communication lines. My children already have approached me and asked many ??? about their bodies and they always come to me and ask to pray for friends who have gf/bf b/c they don't believe it's in the best interest of their friends. I *think* they get the basics and that's why we're starting the class. Some of their friends parents have asked if they're kids can participate.

 

Bottom line for us, Abstinence is the only safe step -- and that includes kissing and all that comes thereafter. They have witnessed how one girlfriend makes having a second all that much easier. Our open communcation lines have worked.

 

eta: we also encourage them to find a pure spouse. we have explained what baggage is and that we believe that both physical and spiritual baggage can hurt a relationship. If they can find a pure spouse, they can grow sexually together and learn to please their spouses uniquely and without the baggage causing any problems. Yes, we will ask. Yes we will Really Get To Know their Suitors before they become spouses.

Edited July 18, 2009 by johnandtinagilbert
add spousal opinions

[Kari C in SC]

well I grew up in Christian home, no sex before marriage, etc.

 

had premarital sex no thought about STDs, only concern with birth control

 

I was blessed to not have any adverse problems

 

My boys are being raised that sex out of marriage is morally wrong but forgivable. They are very informed about STD's and all forms of birth control

 

I absolutely hope they choose to wait till marriage. We encourage our boys to not date until they are older. I would even encourage courtship but I am also in the camp that I am raising men to think for themselves. I can't see telling my 18 yo if they can date or not. This has to been their decision.

 

:iagree:

[Kari C in SC]

Okay, heads up parents.

 

YES, kids have sex (and do everything but) in movie theaters. They did 20 years ago and they still do today.

 

They also do it on buses.

They also do it in churches.

They also do it on mission trips.

They also do it in the game room upstairs while siblings are nearby.

They also do it while "on a walk."

They also do it at the park.

They also do it on the way back from a football game.

They also do it at school.

They also do it when there doesn't seem to be a moment they could have.

 

A parent is naive and setting themselves up if they think for ONE MOMENT that their kid could not be doing it. It is even more problematic if they don't know it can be done just about anywhere.

 

And by "it" above, I do mean sex but more often the "everything but."

 

Kids do not need to be ALONE to do it. They don't need a lot of time either.

 

Now ideally, this information just isn't something we need more than a cursory knowledge of but....

 

Remember when some idiot posted about a 12yo getting pregnant at a co-op class and that others were having sex there also? The reason the discussion turned the way it did was because a LOT of us know it is a VERY possible situation. Based on what I have seen, I'd actually be surprised if "it" (again, something quite sexual, maybe but not necessarily including intercourse) didn't.

 

Anyway, kids have hormones going wild as teens. They tend to not think things through very thoroughly. They don't understand the real risks involved (and I'm talking more than just disease/pregnancy). And they think it won't happen to them. There is just so much going on. And they fall into believing they are the only ones that aren't doing such things (when in fact, even by 19, 30% still haven't and that number is considerably larger for a 17yo and more so still for a 15 and esp a 13yr old).

 

But moms, be aware, it doesn't take long and it doesn't have to be all that secluded of an area. Some of the most controlled and "protected" teens I have known are the ones that have found the most trouble....

 

Very well said.

[chaik76]

:001_huh: I'm sure I'm misunderstanding. You don't mean insisting that the rapist use a condom, do you?

 

I have actually heard of that working, though I'm sure it doesn't in more cases that it does. I wondered what she meant by this as well.

It wasn't quite, but I know that this has been asked and happened...

I had trouble thinking of the right words for my post, actually. What I meant is that children (to the extent they are capable) and young adults should know what STD's are and what to do...how to be tested, how to get treatment...not necessarily because they might have sex before marriage, but because if they are ever raped or abused, or if they do have sex no matter how carefully they are watched over, they do need to know what to do to get treated...it would be so terrible if a child chose to have sex, got an std but was too afraid to be tested or get treatment. Sex outside of marriage may be a sin, but I think the price of not knowing about STD's is too high a price to pay for a sin that is not given more weight in the Bible than many other sins.

[ciyates]

We don't do sleepovers. Period. Ever. I take that back. They've been allowed on very rare occasion and almost entirely only for family at OUR home. I can't think of one good thing that happens at a sleepover. But, wow, I can think of a lot of invested work gone to waste at one.

 

:D

 

I wish I had instituted that rule in our house!

[ciyates]

The logic being if they disobey you, they will at least be safe. Like I wouldn't want my children to have to defend themselves physically, but I would ensure my children were capable of it. I think knowledge is always a good thing.

 

S ?

You are using faulty logic. If they disobeyed you about the sex why would you think they would all of a sudden listen to you about precautions?

[Desert Rat]

Well said, Joanne. I've been watching this thread with interest because I like to know all sides of any situation or viewpoint. I've refrained from answering because I don't really trust myself, LOL.

[phathui5]

Does she understand STDs? No. There's no reason for her to.

 

 

I think that at 13, she should know that a sexually could be a consequence of having sex. No parent wants to think that their child could become sexually active at that age, but it happens.

[lionfamily1999]

We homeschool, because we want to raise our children how WE believe they should be raised.

 

I have no doubt that Carmen's children will grow up to follow their parents' teachings. Why? Because Carmen and her dh are dedicated to teaching their children these things AND THEY BELIEVE THEM. I have no doubt that the many, many parents on this board that BELIEVE in purity until marraige are raising children who believe in this and their kids will act accordingly as adults, because it will be what they believe.

 

Wishy washy parents, like myself, will need to show both sides of the coin, because deep down, we don't really care or don't really believe pre-marital sex is wrong. We hope our kids will wait, at least until they're grown enough to accept the responsibility that sex entails, but if they don't, well, we sort of expect that too. Hope for the best, expect the worst. These parents should teach their kids both ways, because our kids are going to end up just as vague as we are.

 

To insinuate that ALL kids will have sex is false and blind. That's putting your own worries on the heads of others. I think it's called "projecting?" Peek can check ;) Don't project your fears, concerns onto other families. They aren't insisting that other parents teach abstinence, why should people insist they teach contrary to their own beliefs?

 

Finally, it's not akin to teaching self defense. It's more like giving your kids a recipe to cure a hangover while asking them not to drink.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Finally, it's not akin to teaching self defense. It's more like giving your kids a recipe to cure a hangover while asking them not to drink.

:iagree:Thanks for that! I was trying to think of how to explain how it was not like self defense.

[I.Dup.]

I agree with the others who said most teens will use every opportunity they can to get into trouble, have sex, or do "everything but." We plan to approach the subject a lot like Tina did, and be very honest and forthcoming when the time is right.

 

We believe in protecting and sheltering our children because no matter how much you teach them about safe sex, teens are stupid and will do whatever they feel like anyway. If they want to have a baby, they will try to have a baby (I tried at 13). If they don't want to use a condom (most don't), they won't. Why even put them in situations (like dating and sleepovers and unsupervised time with friends of ANY sort) when that is so clearly asking for trouble. It boggles my mind. But I was a really bad teen and got into a lot of trouble, so I am nowhere near naive on the issue. I feel it is my job to protect my children from that until they are mature enough and old enough to handle it themselves. If I don't, I am not doing my job. Parents are way too permissive and it's often their own fault when their children get into all kinds of shenanigans.

[Storm Bay]

We homeschool, because we want to raise our children how WE believe they should be raised.

 

I have no doubt that Carmen's children will grow up to follow their parents' teachings. Why? Because Carmen and her dh are dedicated to teaching their children these things AND THEY BELIEVE THEM. I have no doubt that the many, many parents on this board that BELIEVE in purity until marraige are raising children who believe in this and their kids will act accordingly as adults, because it will be what they believe.

 

.

 

 

A very good book to read, which is not written about this topic specifically but shows how teen brains function, and therefore is appropriate, is a book called Why do they Act this Way? It is a secular book, but as a Christian I found it very enligtening. You can teach a teen all you want to, but there is absolutely no guarantee either in the Bible or out that they will obey or that they won't fall into temptation. The teen brain structure is NOT fully developed and teens still need guidance, etc. It's never safe to assume your dc is doing what you want them to if they are unsupervised. The poster who wrote all those places they could be engaging in s*x didn't include them all, either. Plus, nowadays it's not uncommon for these things to be done with more than 2 teens in the room (no, I'm not exaggerating or making this up.)

 

Dc need to grow into adults who can make sound decisions, and it's a fine balance to do that. But since the Bible expressly discusses right and wrong, often including consequences, I really think it's helpful for my dc to know the facts about STIs, pregnancy, and, in particular, the myths and lies teens tell other teens about s*x, the pressures they put on you, even though mine aren't in ps or out dating yet, or going on walks with boys, etc, etc, at this point. I also have told my eldest about how some girls in my ps grade got pregnant in hs and some of the consequences that resulted from that, too.

 

Teens can sincerely believe they'll never budge on their vows of chastity, but things can change radically when the temptation is right there with someone they are head over heels in love or in infatuation with. I'm not saying everyone needs to lock up their dd's or ds's until they're adults, but we need to be wise and think things through carefully. It's naive to assume that our dc are always going to do what we've told them, even if they've been compliant, good dc. Some dc don't rebel until 18, as someone already mentioned. Some aren't even tempted until they're on their own.

[phathui5]

You are using faulty logic. If they disobeyed you about the sex why would you think they would all of a sudden listen to you about precautions?

 

Because at that point, it's not about you (the parent). Choosing to do something like use a condom is a choice they can make to protect themselves, even if they don't agree with your stance on when to have sex.

[tajott]

I have told my oldest, aged 19, that there are some VERY scary and deadly consequenses to s*x. She knows that the only way to remain medically pure is to remain physically pure, and that the only way to remain emotionally pure is to not give her heart or her body away before marriage. I believe the emotional purity is every bit as important as the physical purity.

 

Just like with other poor health choices, (smoking, overeating, lazing around), and risky living (binge drinking, drinking & driving, s*x play, drugs) if you don't pay attention to what you are doing, you will very likely do something that will come back to get you. She knows the basic information about STDs, that you would need a full body c*ndom to prevent HPV, and that gardasill is experimental at best. She knows that she must have a pure partner (husband) in order to have complete peace of mind in the bedroom. When she gets curious as to the intricacies of what I'm talking about she can ask me, her doctor, or search the internet. The one thing I made sure she DOES understand is that it is stupid to ask friends about this stuff. It is completely illogical that they know more than I do, and it is lie that they care more for her than I.

 

I didn't tell my dd this stuff "just in case". I feel she has a right to know this just as much as she has a right to know that eating nothing but twinkies and soda is BAD for her, and that if she isn't intentional about what she does she is setting herself up for trouble.

 

I however, have NOT had this sort of talk with my 13 yo. She will shielded from the big bad world for a while longer; few movies, very rare sleep overs (and getting rarer as she gets older), and most of her time spent with just her family.

 

Teresa

[tajott]

PS

about contraceptives.

 

I have told her that when I was young (and the product of a PS mindset that taught that "learned" people knew what was best for me) I bought into The Pill mentality. I was on it for 5 yrs, from marriage to 4 mos. before oldest was conceived. Then we used c*ndoms between babies, and then had a V after #4. She knows that now I feel different about b.c. We, dh & I, did the best we could with what we knew, and beyond that is Grace.

 

She knows that I don't really know what is out there b.c-wise and that when she gets married she & her dh will need to wrestle with this issue themselves. She recently commented that she knows that being maried means allowing God to give her as many babies and as close together as He chooses, but we didn't specifically discuss the topic.

Edited July 20, 2009 by tajott

[Lovedtodeath]

A very good book to read, which is not written about this topic specifically but shows how teen brains function, and therefore is appropriate, is a book called Why do they Act this Way? It is a secular book, but as a Christian I found it very enligtening. You can teach a teen all you want to, but there is absolutely no guarantee either in the Bible or out that they will obey or that they won't fall into temptation. The teen brain structure is NOT fully developed and teens still need guidance, etc. It's never safe to assume your dc is doing what you want them to if they are unsupervised. The poster who wrote all those places they could be engaging in s*x didn't include them all, either. Plus, nowadays it's not uncommon for these things to be done with more than 2 teens in the room (no, I'm not exaggerating or making this up.)

 

Dc need to grow into adults who can make sound decisions, and it's a fine balance to do that. But since the Bible expressly discusses right and wrong, often including consequences, I really think it's helpful for my dc to know the facts about STIs, pregnancy, and, in particular, the myths and lies teens tell other teens about s*x, the pressures they put on you, even though mine aren't in ps or out dating yet, or going on walks with boys, etc, etc, at this point. I also have told my eldest about how some girls in my ps grade got pregnant in hs and some of the consequences that resulted from that, too.

 

Teens can sincerely believe they'll never budge on their vows of chastity, but things can change radically when the temptation is right there with someone they are head over heels in love or in infatuation with. I'm not saying everyone needs to lock up their dd's or ds's until they're adults, but we need to be wise and think things through carefully. It's naive to assume that our dc are always going to do what we've told them, even if they've been compliant, good dc. Some dc don't rebel until 18, as someone already mentioned. Some aren't even tempted until they're on their own.

Good post!

[HiddenJewel]

Janet,

 

Part of the situation is that we don't just teach our kids right but that we help the thinking become their own. If it doesn't, then there may well be issues. But if they can think through things for themselves and be convicted in their hearts, they have a HUGE protection.

 

And I know people get sick of hearing me say it but this is a HUGE reason why we chose to discipline the way we did/do. It is really easy to control most children to a great degree. And many will find punishment a deterance and reward a carrot worth trying for. But when it REALLY counts, our kids need to be able to think, problem solve, have self-control, be self-disciplined. They need to do good things and refrain from bad things for the right reasons. Natural, logical, and punitive consequences are facts of life for the most part, but the goal of training, molding, teaching, guiding should be that those are second, third, fourth on their list of reasonings, back ups that are there, but not what is relied on for control.

 

Anyway, so the goal is for kids to make it their own, not just something they are taught. The jump from head to heart is VERY important. It is their only REAL protection once they are adults and can make their own choices.

 

This is so key! I am a parent who teaches that dating is for finding a marriage partner. I teach that s*x outside of marriage is not God's plan. But trying to control our children's every move is not going to help them. It teaches them to rely on someone else to make their decisions for them and cripples them for the rest of their lives. I shudder when I hear about such parenting! External not internal discipline happens through control.

 

Open communication with your children is crucial. They are not pawns in our little game called life. They are living human beings who have thoughts and emotions and deserve our respect just as they should respect us.

Edited July 20, 2009 by HiddenJewel

[MOM24WONDERS]

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I could not have said it better myself! We have actually talked somewhat about STDs to our children, though. I do want them to know that there are things out there that can ruin your life. It's not like a hot topic or anything, but we have taught them about AIDS and such. We feel they need to know.

 

Other than that - you are SPOT on. I think my 13 year old daughter knows more about contraceptives and what they do to your body and your babies than most adult women. In fact, my daughter was able to share with a woman in our church about the ill-effects of birth control when a conversation came up that she was accidentally privy to. I was so proud!!!!

 

 

We don't believe in dating. We don't believe in contraceptives either so yes, our children probably understand better than the average child EXACTLY what the birth control pill and other hormones ACTUALLY do and how they work within the body... Certainly better than their peers and probably better than do most adults.

 

Does my 13yo daughter understand ovulation, her body, and things of that nature? Absolutely.

 

Does she understand STDs? No. There's no reason for her to.

 

But most of us also don't set up situations where they could be exposed to such an opportunity.

 

There is no safer sex than married sex.

[MOM24WONDERS]

YES! It changes when they are no longer living under my roof. It is the way my parents and most parents in my religion do things, and it works really well.

:iagree: We do things as a family. Our children are around other children, but it's usually in a setting where there are multiple families with youth and our kids mingle with them there.

 

Our kids don't go to movies with friends (without an adult) and we certainly don't encourage "just hanging out" as it leads to conversations that are best not had. We are commanded not to eat the bread of idleness...so just hanging around with a group of friends would lead to things happening or being said that shouldn't be because they are idle.

 

We do have sleepovers - with like-minded families. Our daughters can not go to a home that has young men there nor can our son go to a house that has young ladies there. Thankfully, my daughter's best friend is the oldest of 5 girls! haha And my son's best friend is my nephew.

 

We do FEW sleep overs. We just don't feel there is the need. We do plan plenty of "get-togethers" for the kids - going swimming, park days, etc. The moms are all there, but the kids get to have fun. They really have no need to go anywhere without their parents....what is gained by that?

[MOM24WONDERS]

I really think we could be best friends. :)

 

We NEVER say teen or teenager. We have young adults in our home. My two that are in the "teen" years are actually offended when someone calls them a teenager (jokingly so) as they know the true meaning of that word and they are FAR from it.

 

 

 

We don't do sleepovers. Period. Ever. I take that back. They've been allowed on very rare occasion and almost entirely only for family at OUR home. I can't think of one good thing that happens at a sleepover. But, wow, I can think of a lot of invested work gone to waste at one.

 

They are allowed to hang out with friends in supervised situations, sports, etc., and always supervised, not because of lack of trust, but because young people choose foolishly and should be supervised.

 

At what age do I allow them to go out and about on their own or out and about with other teens?

 

I'll be honest I hate the term teen, teen-ager, etc. I prefer young lady, young man. As I'm not raising my children to be a "teen." I expect adult like behaviour from my teens and to see them to be able to fully manage a household by 16-18 years of age.

 

 

**They are just getting older - turning into teens, we're training them for their life as future adults.** And THAT is a completely different mindset.

 

I don't expect my children to be out of my house until my daughters are ready for marriage. At no time do I expect them to live on their own. I expect my son to live on his own when he has finished whatever education he's chosen, has a job, and can support himself, unless saving for a home in which case he's welcome at home indefinitely as he saves to support a wife and eventually a family. Our oldest DS is planning on the military and so I expect he'll join sometime between 18-21. We'd like to see him attend college first, but we'll see. He's more peer oriented which is why I don't really want him running off to the military at 18. Whereas our oldest daughter is very much an independent thinker, so we're less concerned about her. Our next two. Oh sigh. They'll be at home forever....... :D

[eternalknot]

 

We NEVER say teen or teenager. We have young adults in our home.

 

I believe in dating, so I'll omit my opinions on that aspect of the thread ... but the above quote grabbed my attention when BlsdMama first posted a similar sentiment.

 

I do believe that we strive for (or default to) the expectations our loved ones have of us. I definitely believe that everything is "marketable" and that how we market ourselves (or our children) will affect perception, both by Self and by Others.

 

I don't necessarily equate "teen/teenager" as negative, but I see a point to the more positive spin "young adult". It's food for thought.

[MOM24WONDERS]

No movies without an adult chaperone. Periodic checks to be sure that they are really at their job.;)

 

I hadn't really thought about discussing a potential mate's history. That is not a bad idea.

 

There is a book by Voddie Baucham called What He Must be to Marry My Daughter - AWESOME.

 

We want someone with a similar family background, life-style, and like-minded beliefs for our children. We would not approve of a marriage that was unequally yoked.

[Cindy in C-ville]

We are a family that believes in courtship and have children who plan for their first kiss to be on their wedding day, but yet I'm guessing we would be considered "liberal" by many who also hold this value. The girls and I all wear jeans, jewelry, and when the girls are interested, will be allowed to wear make-up. Our church is full of young people in college and in their 20's who wear jeans and flip-flops to church and our worship team plays guitars, keyboards, drums, etc. We are in relationship with a young couple who are living together, another who got pregnant and THEN got married, and others whose lifestyles we hope our children don't emulate.

 

We don't talk nearly as much as about what we DON'T want our children doing as we do about the all-satisfying nature of a personal intimate relationship with the King of the universe who is so totally "other" and yet has come so near to us. Yes, we want them to pursue holiness, but not out of fear or duty, but out of passion and affection for God.

 

They are very much aware that mom and dad enjoy the benefits of married life. We are in love with each other, date each other, kiss, hug, and hold hands, go out on dates, etc. They see us loving being married to one another and we are convinced that this is a healthy model for them - one to which typical dating cannot hold a candle. So many kids think that romance stops when you get married b/c all they see are parents who are exhausted, bored, busy, and have left, at least emotionally, the love of their youth. By God's grace, we are committed to nurturing the garden of our marriage and our kids know this.

 

We want to see our children spread their wings a bit while their still under our roof. Our oldest dd (16) is in a private school (a Christian school in that all the teachers are Christians and their mission is "academic excellence under the sovereignty of God") and our 14yodd will be fulltime at our community college in the fall. We don't want them to "buy into" our beliefs just because this is what they have grown up with, but b/c they truly believe them. We have AMAZING discussions about life issues together and they are aware that people make different choices than we would hope that they make.

 

Some of them may make bad decisions, but we will always be here for them. Some of you have said that you will avoid the bad decisions b/c of your church community, no sleepovers, homeschooling, etc. That's fine for you, but it's not the way God has called us to live our lives or raise our children.

 

So, have we/will we teach about STIs even though we hope that it's never an issue? Honestly, we haven't thought about it. We've talked a lot about s&x, but we don't talk about it in terms of "risks." We'll have to plan another discussion or two or three about that one. For our children, I do think it's important that they know about STIs, abortion, the trauma of making decisions outside of God's plan but really more as a presentation of facts. We spend a lot more time focusing on the beauty of a relationship with Christ and the application of His word into our lives than we do on scaring them about the consequences of ungodly choices.

[keptwoman]

I have no doubt that Carmen's children will grow up to follow their parents' teachings. Why? Because Carmen and her dh are dedicated to teaching their children these things AND THEY BELIEVE THEM. I have no doubt that the many, many parents on this board that BELIEVE in purity until marraige are raising children who believe in this and their kids will act accordingly as adults, because it will be what they believe.

 

I don't know Carmen at all so I'm not going to comment on whether or not her children will follow their parents teachings.

 

But I can tell you absolutely categorically that my parents believed strongly and taught us that sex outside the marriage bed was a sin. I know that they were both virgins when they married. I know how strong their faith in God was. And yet neither I nor my brother follow their faith. Neither I nor my brother followed their teachings with regard to sex. And neither of us regret it. Parents can (and of course SHOULD) teach their beliefs to their children and hope and pray and believe that their children will follow those beliefs and practices all their lives. But in the end the childrens lives are their own and no matter how strong the example of faith and the strength of the teaching not all children will follow it.

[lionfamily1999]

A very good book to read, which is not written about this topic specifically but shows how teen brains function, and therefore is appropriate, is a book called Why do they Act this Way? It is a secular book, but as a Christian I found it very enligtening. You can teach a teen all you want to, but there is absolutely no guarantee either in the Bible or out that they will obey or that they won't fall into temptation. The teen brain structure is NOT fully developed and teens still need guidance, etc. It's never safe to assume your dc is doing what you want them to if they are unsupervised. The poster who wrote all those places they could be engaging in s*x didn't include them all, either. Plus, nowadays it's not uncommon for these things to be done with more than 2 teens in the room (no, I'm not exaggerating or making this up.)

 

Dc need to grow into adults who can make sound decisions, and it's a fine balance to do that. But since the Bible expressly discusses right and wrong, often including consequences, I really think it's helpful for my dc to know the facts about STIs, pregnancy, and, in particular, the myths and lies teens tell other teens about s*x, the pressures they put on you, even though mine aren't in ps or out dating yet, or going on walks with boys, etc, etc, at this point. I also have told my eldest about how some girls in my ps grade got pregnant in hs and some of the consequences that resulted from that, too.

 

Teens can sincerely believe they'll never budge on their vows of chastity, but things can change radically when the temptation is right there with someone they are head over heels in love or in infatuation with. I'm not saying everyone needs to lock up their dd's or ds's until they're adults, but we need to be wise and think things through carefully. It's naive to assume that our dc are always going to do what we've told them, even if they've been compliant, good dc. Some dc don't rebel until 18, as someone already mentioned. Some aren't even tempted until they're on their own.

 

I don't know Carmen at all so I'm not going to comment on whether or not her children will follow their parents teachings.

 

But I can tell you absolutely categorically that my parents believed strongly and taught us that sex outside the marriage bed was a sin. I know that they were both virgins when they married. I know how strong their faith in God was. And yet neither I nor my brother follow their faith. Neither I nor my brother followed their teachings with regard to sex. And neither of us regret it. Parents can (and of course SHOULD) teach their beliefs to their children and hope and pray and believe that their children will follow those beliefs and practices all their lives. But in the end the childrens lives are their own and no matter how strong the example of faith and the strength of the teaching not all children will follow it.

I know adults, who were told, as kids, do not watch these programs. They're adults, they still don't watch them, why? Because, they were raised to believe that certain shows/channels/ratings/topics were things they had no business with. I know adults who, as kids, were told that alcohol was a dangerous substance. They don't/haven't/and as far as they're concerned, won't drink alcohol. I know adults who, as kids, were told that caffiene was an addictive substance and they should not take it into their bodies. They, as adults, continue to scan labels looking for this insidious substance, so they can keep from taking it into their bodies. They don't even eat chocolate.

 

Now, I'm not saying there aren't rebels out there, but to assume that all kids are going to rebel is foolish. To assume that all adults do everything their parents tell them is wrong is.. wrong. Heck, I still call to let someone know if I'm going out, where I'm going and when I plan on getting back, just in case something happens, because that is what I was raised to do. I still avoid people with the addictions my parents warned me about. I still do a lot of things, that I never considered rebelable (iykwIm), because they were things my parents considered highly important and I still believe them.

 

Maybe their kids will get older and decide they like 'bad' television or 'bad' clothes or 'bad' hairstyles, but I doubt that ALL of these kids are going to end up bedding down before marraige.

[Peek a Boo]

I know how strong their faith in God was. And yet neither I nor my brother follow their faith. Neither I nor my brother followed their teachings with regard to sex. And neither of us regret it. Parents can (and of course SHOULD) teach their beliefs to their children and hope and pray and believe that their children will follow those beliefs and practices all their lives. But in the end the childrens lives are their own and no matter how strong the example of faith and the strength of the teaching not all children will follow it.

 

Having a strong faith doesn't mean one is a good teacher/trainer of children or people. I'd also say that "strong" teaching isn't the same as effective teaching. This type of thing is not a memorize-by-rote type of concept that can be drilled into one's head. Pamela has addressed peviously the concept behind the training and teaching that goes into helping a child own their decisions.

[Jumping In Puddles]

Same sex gathering (or sleep overs) carry some risk also so if you are trying to curtail ALL sexual activity/experimentation you may want to think about that too.

 

"my dd or ds is having a sleepover, but there is no chance of sexual activity because there is no opposite sex present..." Really?

[Storm Bay]

You are using faulty logic. If they disobeyed you about the sex why would you think they would all of a sudden listen to you about precautions?

 

 

 

You'd be surprised. There is no way to know either way what your dc would do if they disobeyed, but I know from my own life that the reason I never tried hard drugs or became a smoker was because I was afraid of the health risks. I wish we'd known then what we do now about marijuana, which is 500 times stronger now than it was 30 years ago according to a book I read recently, but thankfully I didn't like it (good thing it's been over 30 years so the statute of limitations for trying it is over!) I did disobey my parents in ways I am careful to close the door on for my dd (can't ever do that 100 percent, of course, but she's not even in the situation to be tempted with some of those things.)

 

Had my parents not taught me certain things, I can tell you I would have done far worse during my rebellious phase than I would have. I think it's incorrect to conclude that this is faulty logic, particularly since people are not always logical. In fact, I've never met anyone who is completely logical.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Karin
quoted the wrong person by mistake, so fixed it.

[Storm Bay]

Now, I'm not saying there aren't rebels out there, but to assume that all kids are going to rebel is foolish. To assume that all adults do everything their parents tell them is wrong is.. wrong. Heck, I still call to let someone know if I'm going out, where I'm going and when I plan on getting back, just in case something happens, because that is what I was raised to do. I still avoid people with the addictions my parents warned me about. I still do a lot of things, that I never considered rebelable (iykwIm), because they were things my parents considered highly important and I still believe them.

 

Maybe their kids will get older and decide they like 'bad' television or 'bad' clothes or 'bad' hairstyles, but I doubt that ALL of these kids are going to end up bedding down before marraige.

 

I agree one hundred percent. Not all kids rebel, and I don't assume that for a minute. Not all of my siblings rebelled, and not all of my ps friends did, either. But there are many reasons to educate your dc in these areas. For example, your teen might be able to help another teen who hasn't been properly taught or who is tempted because they have accurate information. As much as dd hates to hear it, I have explained some of the lies and mythology teens often believe in case someone confides in her or she's in a situation where a couple of girls are exchanging false information. It could happen while they're changing after swimming.

 

I also know that one of the periods of American history with the highest rate of babies conceived out of wedlock was in the late 19th century. Lots of ignorance. Mostly in the poor and working class, too. Ignorance is not bliss, necessarily.

[lionfamily1999]

I agree one hundred percent. Not all kids rebel, and I don't assume that for a minute. Not all of my siblings rebelled, and not all of my ps friends did, either. But there are many reasons to educate your dc in these areas. For example, your teen might be able to help another teen who hasn't been properly taught or who is tempted because they have accurate information. As much as dd hates to hear it, I have explained some of the lies and mythology teens often believe in case someone confides in her or she's in a situation where a couple of girls are exchanging false information. It could happen while they're changing after swimming.

 

I also know that one of the periods of American history with the highest rate of babies conceived out of wedlock was in the late 19th century. Lots of ignorance. Mostly in the poor and working class, too. Ignorance is not bliss, necessarily.

We can't teach our kids everything, just because other people think it is vitally important. The abstainence parents believe that abstainence is the only way, it is the right thing to do, period. Teaching their kids how to prevent pregnancy or stds, just in case, is completely opposite of all the other things they teach concerning sex. So, if they don't want to teach it, I understand. I don't think they're foolish or blind, I think they're coming from a different place than me.

 

The same way a pacifist (sorry for my spelling, if that's wrong) would find self-defense classes something they would never allow, a parent that believes strongly in no sex till marraige or purity or whatever, is well within their rights as parents to say no to sex ed.

 

I don't understand why people are so vehement in calling this group of people onto the carpet for a public scourging. So they believe differently and are raising their kids to believe the same way, so what? It does not automatically mean their kids will be in the sex industry, or even that they'll have heavy petting before marraige. The kids may just grow up to be adults that feel the same way as their parents. It happens.

[Hedgehogs4]

when the kids are MUCH OLDER and able to discuss stds and birth control on a more mature level, i will discuss it with them as part of the consequences of man's inability to be in line with god's will, and that stds are consequences of sin, and what they are. my hope, prayer and expectation is that they will not need to know these things because they will be already on the path toward righteous living and will remain subject to our parental authority until they are married.

[BlsdMama]

I don't know Carmen at all so I'm not going to comment on whether or not her children will follow their parents teachings.

 

But I can tell you absolutely categorically that my parents believed strongly and taught us that sex outside the marriage bed was a sin. I know that they were both virgins when they married. I know how strong their faith in God was. And yet neither I nor my brother follow their faith. Neither I nor my brother followed their teachings with regard to sex.

 

Can I point out the fault in this logic? I think you meant well, I think you meant it as a caution, a "Do Not Assume" sign that says, "Ya'all, I know you THINK your kids will do as you teach but uh, not necessarily." :001_huh:

 

And I think you're right. When we have young adults on our hands we must admit that there comes a time and a place where they will be confronted with temptation. Satan lives for it, it's his goal. And at that time, if my daughter should succumb to temptation, it will not be my LACK OF TEACHING that fails, but her lack of conviction to make the right choice. And she'll be accountable for that choice.

 

That said, it is MY responsibility, not to say, "Don't do it, but if you do, use X." It is my responsibility to say, "Don't do it. It isn't the way God intended." No buts. Will my grown children (and I consider grown to be about 15-17, depending on the child) know of transmittable diseases through sexual conduct? I don't know how they could be informed young adults and not be aware of it. A show on AIDS would light a discussion that says, there is a dreadful disease out there and these are the ways it's transmitted. That is entirely DIFFERENT than adding, "Oh, and by the way, just use a barrier method and you can avoid it." One, it's a bold faced assumption if not all out lie that is flat out dangerous to teach our children. Many have said, "Married sex isn't safe sex." Might I say (scream, shout) PROTECTED SEX IS NOT SAFE SEX! You tell me which has a higher failure rate - a loving committed marriage or a condom? I'll put my faith in the marriage long before the condom.

 

Now, back to the logic part.

 

*I* was raised with an entirely different concept. It was the concept that yes, sex before marriage isn't ideal, but honestly you'll most likely be a normal teen and experiment so be safe.

 

Now, I'd love to tell you that *I* didn't follow my parents teaching, just as the above poster, but I fulfilled part of their teachings.... I sure was a normal teen. I was allowed all the normal freedoms, the normal NON-supervision, normal dating, in actuality a strict curfew, and I ended up with the normal result... I had Ana before DH & I were married. My parents weren't upset we acted outside of marriage, they were upset we got "caught" pregnant. There are 1,000 reasons I hate birth control. But I'll tell you one (and it's minor compared to the rest) but I hate birth control because it allows parents to be ignorant. It allows you to turn a blind eye to premarital and teen sex just because there is no consequence. Same with barrier method birth control.

 

One of the greatest things about a Quiverful family? The consequence (and GREAT blessings) of sex within marriage is so blatantly obvious. We're blessed with children. In our house, conception, marriage, sexuality, children isn't spoken of a GREAT deal. It's addressed though as you can obviously tell as we have a new little one every 18-24 months. I fear for the families that don't have older children seeing the fruit of a loving marriage.

 

And it scares me, the attitude that sex outside of marriage can be safer than sex within marriage because sometimes some husband or wife can pollute their vows. Should we in a pre-marriage class show the husbands and wives how to use a condom in case they want to cheat? Should the Catholics teach how to use the pill so they can avoid pregnancy and the fruits of married sex? I'm confused.

 

It appears that we use birth control as a safety net. And we all know that there is that small chance that you can still get AIDS with a condom. You can still get pregnant on the pill. There is that minute chance that in an evenly yoked, committed, Christian marriage, that a husband could go outside his vows. And I fail to see how any of this justifies my teaching any of my children the "safety net" clause........ How would I go about that? How would I avoid the hypocrisy in those statements?

 

I DO understand the how/why that an average, or a liberal Christian or a non-Christian might teach these things. But as the question was posed to those of us who don't allow dating due to our conservative Christ based belief systems, I'm SHOCKED to my core, that there are those here who could possibly justify teaching these things for actual useage.....

 

It is akin to (and I'm pro-gun) someone who is completely against all firearms to taking their children to the firing range and teaching their children to be a dead shot "in case" someone breaks into their home. It wouldn't make sense within our belief system.

[Storm Bay]

We can't teach our kids everything, just because other people think it is vitally important.

I don't understand why people are so vehement in calling this group of people onto the carpet for a public scourging. So they believe differently and are raising their kids to believe the same way, so what? It does not automatically mean their kids will be in the sex industry, or even that they'll have heavy petting before marraige. The kids may just grow up to be adults that feel the same way as their parents. It happens.

:iagree: But I do think that there are no guarantees our children will always obey us, and I daresay that there isn't a child of any of us who have posted who has obeyed everything they've been taught from the time they were old enough to understand. I haven't taught my dc everything there is to know about the topic, of course. That would be inappropriate, particularly since I've been exposed to knowledge I really wish I didn't have; it was more than I needed to know.

 

As parents, we each need to decide what is best, but since the OP asked this question about those of us who don't allow dating, I spoke up. I do teach my dc things that others don't. But I don't claim to be a conservative Christian. Neither am I a liberal Christian. I'm not quiverful, either, although I have nothing others being that way. However, I've seen the results of ignorance first hand, not just in history, and there is a fine balance. I also agree with those that say that there is no guarantee of safe s*x in marriage. I think, however, that there are times when it's highly unlikely that that is the case.

 

I wasn't bashing anyone, but I'm going to reply to those who directly reply to me or to something I happen to know a great deal about. Ultimately, however, I am a firm believer in rights for both parents and children. Parents do have a right to choose what they teach, whether or not I agree with it, and very often women who grow up in what many of us would consider sheltered environments move on to loving marital relationships with men who have been raised the same way. If I wanted my dc to learn the things I teach them the way the ps does, they might be in ps (but unlikely, since I have many bones to pick with the ps system). I don't. I do have strong opinions and values that are in direct opposition to the way the ps handles this.

[babysparkler]

If children are not left without supervision then they will not have an opportunity.

So you would supervise a teen all the time? Like no sleep overs, no movies with friends, no hanging out with friends, etc...? Is there always an adult at those shorts of things? Until what age or event does that change?

 

For us that is exactly how it was... Dh's parents were HIGHLY supervisory (examples: he has never been in his parents' home alone - even to this day at 33 years old:lol:, nor did he EVER ride in anyone's car other than his parents')... they had this philosophy that they wouldn't allow any opportunities. We dated all through highschool & college... and in college we were told that if I were to visit (and if they were to find out) that he would loose all financial backing from his parents. My parents, on the other hand, never cared what we did... and since I was from a history of premarital sex and adultery, they didn't even bother with setting guidelines and said I could do what I wanted to do.

 

Looking back, we "could have" found a way to have some unsupervised time (and did at times on a small level with the freedom of the college years), but both of us made commitments to ourselves, eachother, and God that we would wait until our wedding night. Without our firm, heartfelt committments, no amount of supervision would have been enough.

 

I think the key is to shape their heart from within, not their world from the outside.

Edited July 20, 2009 by babysparkler

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

I think the key is to shape their heart from within, not their world from the outside.

 

I think you're right, this is Such a heart issue! But I also think as part of training them the way they should go and avoiding temptation and (the potential of) stumbling blocks, a bit of environmental support (sometimes via control) certainly doesn't hurt.

 

Great discussion.

[lionfamily1999]

:iagree: But I do think that there are no guarantees our children will always obey us, and I daresay that there isn't a child of any of us who have posted who has obeyed everything they've been taught from the time they were old enough to understand. I haven't taught my dc everything there is to know about the topic, of course. That would be inappropriate, particularly since I've been exposed to knowledge I really wish I didn't have; it was more than I needed to know.

 

As parents, we each need to decide what is best, but since the OP asked this question about those of us who don't allow dating, I spoke up. I do teach my dc things that others don't. But I don't claim to be a conservative Christian. Neither am I a liberal Christian. I'm not quiverful, either, although I have nothing others being that way. However, I've seen the results of ignorance first hand, not just in history, and there is a fine balance. I also agree with those that say that there is no guarantee of safe s*x in marriage. I think, however, that there are times when it's highly unlikely that that is the case.

 

I wasn't bashing anyone, but I'm going to reply to those who directly reply to me or to something I happen to know a great deal about. Ultimately, however, I am a firm believer in rights for both parents and children. Parents do have a right to choose what they teach, whether or not I agree with it, and very often women who grow up in what many of us would consider sheltered environments move on to loving marital relationships with men who have been raised the same way. If I wanted my dc to learn the things I teach them the way the ps does, they might be in ps (but unlikely, since I have many bones to pick with the ps system). I don't. I do have strong opinions and values that are in direct opposition to the way the ps handles this.

Having seen the thread that was posted by the same person, when this one first went up, I KNOW she was trying to bash people. In my first post, the one you responded to, I was just trying to put out the general idea, in answer to so many nay sayers, that it won't necessarily NOT work. And, esp., that these parents are doing what they genuinely believe is best for their kids.

 

I'm up in the air on dating, I was not going to respond to this thread at all, until I read some of the op's responses and some of the negative things being said to people that don't teach sex ed. I've taught my dcs various things, whenever it came up, I'm in no rush and I'm not sure how I feel about most of these things. The only thing I am positive about is that the parents who don't allow dating, etc, care about their kids and they're doing what they can to give their kids good lives (the same as the rest of us), and attacking them, treating them like soft headed fools, or forecasting a future of sexual insanity for their kids, is pointless and mean. Please note, I'm not saying YOU said that. I expect, having read your responses you know what I mean.

[wulfbourne]

CDC - AIDS in 15-19 year old men doubles, syphilis in women up 50%

http://carnalnation.com/content/12488/4/government-survey-says-us-teens-need-better-sex-ed

 

The results of data compiled by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) should not really come as a surprise to anyone: American teens need more and better sex education. The surveillance summary Sexual and Reproductive Health of Persons Aged 10--24 Years published in this week's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report paints a grim picture of the sexuality of American youth.

 

Dr. Lorrie Gavin and colleagues write, "The data presented in this report indicate that many young persons in the United States engage in sexual risk behavior and experience negative reproductive health outcomes." Using data from a variety of studies and surveys involving several hundred thousand children, teens, and young adults from 2001 through 2007, the CDC researchers found dire news with regard to the incidence of sexually transmitted diseases and teen pregancy. The number of AIDS diagnoses among men aged 15-19 years has nearly doubled, increasing from 1.3 cases per 100,000 in 1997 to 2.5 per 100,000 in 2006. The rate of syphilis infection among women has gone up by nearly 50% with 1.5 cases per 100,000 in 2004 to 2.2 cases per 100,000 population in 2006. After years of decline, the teen birth rate also showed an increase with 40.5 births per 1,000 females in 2005 to 42.5 in 2007.

 

The report also indicates that parents are not talking to their kids about sex. Only 49.8 percent of 18- and 19-year-old women had talked with their parents about birth control; whereas a meager 35 percent of men the same age had discussed the topic with a parent. The researchers also found that significant disparities in sex education and disease incidence exist between racial and ethnic groups as well as by geographic region. Southern states have the highest incidence of teen pregnancy and incidence of STDs. However, more than 80 percent of teen boys and girls say they have received formal education in how to say 'no' to sex. These results show that despite that formal education, adolescents abstained from exercising what they learne

 

Reports like this are the reason I will teach my kids about safe sex. I will stress saving themselves until marriage, but I know that there is a chance they won't listen. I don't want them to do drugs either, but I will teach them about drugs as well.

[lionfamily1999]

Reports like this are the reason I will teach my kids about safe sex. I will stress saving themselves until marriage, but I know that there is a chance they won't listen. I don't want them to do drugs either, but I will teach them about drugs as well.

Will you tell them where to go for clean needles?

[wulfbourne]

Will you tell them where to go for clean needles?

I will teach them that dirty needles spread disease. I will teach them that they should always be careful about dirty needles, because they could run into them on a beach, in a tattoo parlor, in a hospital, anywhere.

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

Reports like this are the reason I will teach my kids about safe sex. I will stress saving themselves until marriage, but I know that there is a chance they won't listen. I don't want them to do drugs either, but I will teach them about drugs as well.

 

I can honestly say I knew all there was about safe sex and I didn't always practice b/c I didn't prefer raincoat relations. That's why we will encourage 'til we're blue in the face and out of breath to WAIT! Wait for your spouse. Avoid the temptation. Avoid the outcome. Avoid the peer pressure.

 

Again, I will educate them, but our focus will be on Abstinence. It's the only sure way...even if they're educated.

[wulfbourne]

I can honestly say I knew all there was about safe sex and I didn't always practice b/c I didn't prefer raincoat relations. That's why we will encourage 'til we're blue in the face and out of breath to WAIT! Wait for your spouse. Avoid the temptation. Avoid the outcome. Avoid the peer pressure.

 

Again, I will educate them, but our focus will be on Abstinence. It's the only sure way...even if they're educated.

 

I intend to stress abstinence as well. Part of the reason I plan to stress it is that even wearing a condom isn't 100%. It's still playing a bit of russian roulette. But I would feel like I was being irresponsible if I didn't talk about prevention at all. These statistics have gone up dramatically since abstinence only education has been taking place, so it seems like there must be a correlation. I just don't want my daughters to become a statistic.

[Joanne]

I believe in dating, so I'll omit my opinions on that aspect of the thread ... but the above quote grabbed my attention when BlsdMama first posted a similar sentiment.

 

I do believe that we strive for (or default to) the expectations our loved ones have of us. I definitely believe that everything is "marketable" and that how we market ourselves (or our children) will affect perception, both by Self and by Others.

 

I don't necessarily equate "teen/teenager" as negative, but I see a point to the more positive spin "young adult". It's food for thought.

 

I agree. I found the paragraph about not thinking in concept of "teen" challenging and worth considering.

 

I find some of the logic in this thread very flawed. People are taking their own "stories", imposing them on the topic and making general conclusions and assumptions based on anecdotal events.

 

I don't believe teens *will* rebel nor do I believe they *will* have sex/be intimate if given "opportunity". Teaching them "abstinence only" won't (necessarily) create rebellion and teaching them "be responsible and mature" won't (necessarily) create promiscuity.

[Peek a Boo]

I will teach them that dirty needles spread disease. I will teach them that they should always be careful about dirty needles, because they could run into them on a beach, in a tattoo parlor, in a hospital, anywhere.

 

That's not what she asked.

[Lovedtodeath]

Parents can (and of course SHOULD) teach their beliefs to their children and hope and pray and believe that their children will follow those beliefs and practices all their lives. But in the end the childrens lives are their own and no matter how strong the example of faith and the strength of the teaching not all children will follow it.

:iagree:We still have a responsibility to try.

Having a strong faith doesn't mean one is a good teacher/trainer of children or people. I'd also say that "strong" teaching isn't the same as effective teaching. This type of thing is not a memorize-by-rote type of concept that can be drilled into one's head. Pamela has addressed peviously the concept behind the training and teaching that goes into helping a child own their decisions.

 

Adam and Eve had the best father in the universe and they still chose to do what they wanted and sin. Cain had the best grandfather in the history of the universe. Satan had the best father. They all made choices. So do our kids sometimes, and it is not always the fault of the parents when they do.

 

I think you're right, this is Such a heart issue! But I also think as part of training them the way they should go and avoiding temptation and (the potential of) stumbling blocks, a bit of environmental support (sometimes via control) certainly doesn't hurt.

 

Great discussion.

Yes, you need both in place. DH and I were in love and had hormones and we came pretty close a couple of times. One time we stopped ourselves, and another time we were caught. We needed both.

[Lovedtodeath]

Julie, you are absolutely right. Telling a child where to go for drugs that are not contaminated or how to properly sterilize a needle is exactly the same as teaching them specific "protection" methods in regards to sex while training them to avoid it. Yes, my children will know about STI's and they will know how to prevent them... save sex for the marriage bed.

[wulfbourne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfbourne

I will teach them that dirty needles spread disease. I will teach them that they should always be careful about dirty needles, because they could run into them on a beach, in a tattoo parlor, in a hospital, anywhere.

 

That's not what she asked.

 

Well, since I'm not sure where to get clean needles other than hospital med room, I don't know what the answer would be as to where to go for clean needles. Maybe when we get into a study on public health I'll learn that along with them. (Oldest is 2 1/2 atm, so we have a ways to go)

 

Either way it's not quite a perfect metaphor in my mind because I can't think of anytime illegal drug use is a good thing. There are a variety of things you can/should teach about drugs that are bad, the negative effects of drugs and so on. Dirty needles is the least of it. Sex on the other hand can be a very beautiful thing that has potentially negative side effects when people are not careful. The best way to prevent disease is always to wait until marriage, and it's also the best way to enter a relationship with no extra baggage in that department. But the unfortunate reality is that it seems like many kids, despite being told this, still engage in sex. The evidence is the dramatic rise in HIV, syphilis, and unwed pregnancy among young adults 18-20 which correlates in the abstinence only education program in schools.

 

Like I said before, I'd rather my child doesn't become a statistic because of lack of information should she decide to ignore me.

[lionfamily1999]

I will teach them that dirty needles spread disease. I will teach them that they should always be careful about dirty needles, because they could run into them on a beach, in a tattoo parlor, in a hospital, anywhere.

But, will you tell them how to do drugs "safely?"

I intend to stress abstinence as well. Part of the reason I plan to stress it is that even wearing a condom isn't 100%. It's still playing a bit of russian roulette. But I would feel like I was being irresponsible if I didn't talk about prevention at all. These statistics have gone up dramatically since abstinence only education has been taking place, so it seems like there must be a correlation. I just don't want my daughters to become a statistic.

That's just it though! Even WITH all the prevention out there, even with abstainence, there's a chance, there's a risk involved. (Think rape) Whether or not it is irresponsible to NOT tell your kids how to use condoms is really in the eye of the beholder. IOW, I tell my kids, don't do drugs. I don't tell them, don't do drugs, but if you do, go to X and they can insure you have clean needles, or order all your p*t from High Times, because then you know it isn't tainted.

I can see saying, you're too young to do these things, wait until you're prepared to have a family, because that is the ultimate result of these actions. I can't see adding the caveat, but if you do, use these (grab a cuke kid, let's practice).

That's not what she asked.

:tongue_smilie:

Julie, you are absolutely right. Telling a child where to go for drugs that are not contaminated or how to properly sterilize a needle is exactly the same as teaching them specific "protection" methods in regards to sex while training them to avoid it. Yes, my children will know about STI's and they will know how to prevent them... save sex for the marriage bed.

Thank you.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

The evidence is the dramatic rise in HIV, syphilis, and unwed pregnancy among young adults 18-20 which correlates in the abstinence only education program in schools.

The problem here is that it is not a complete lifestyle of chastity, clean thoughts, no dating, etc. I am not surprised at all that a school program like this failed.

[lionfamily1999]

The problem here is that it is not a complete lifestyle of chastity, clean thoughts, no dating, etc. I am not surprised at all that a school program like this failed.

Especially since, many times, it's taught by people who do not believe it themselves. Might as well have PE taught by a couch potatoe or English taught by an illiterate person.