What my 9yo learned at camp...

[Jolash]

1. There are some mean kids who pick on people's differences for the simple reason that they are different.

 

2. There are ten year olds who excuse their own bad behavior because they "have anger issues and mental problems"

 

3. The 'f' word

 

4. When you can't quite put your finger on what's "wrong" with another person, just call them gay.

 

5. There's NO place like home, and there's no school like homeschool!

 

This was a week long church camp and most of this stuff happened in the cabins. I think we've been living in a bubble. I am flabbergasted that third and fourth graders would have devolved to this level so soon in their lives. Now more than ever, dh and I are more sure than ever of the correctness of our committment to homeschooling. I know I can't stop all the bad influences, but at least at home, I can counter them with honest, clear reasons. Honestly, where do nine and ten year olds learn this stuff?

[amyco]

I'm sorry that you dc had to go through that!! I'm curious, though--did he tell you all this himself? If so, that is wonderful, and speaks to a good relationship. It breaks my heart knowing that this kind of stuff is "out there" for our children to encounter one day--but at 9? (And I probably have my head in the sand, but stuff like this is definitely one of the reasons we homeschool).

[Jolash]

I'm curious, though--did he tell you all this himself? QUOTE]

 

Yes, he did, over the course of the week. The 'f' word thing I asked him about because I was sure he'd never even heard of an 'f' word, much less what it was! He finally confessed to me today at dinner that his friend told him what the word was (he was in tears because he was afraid his Dad and I would not let him play with his friend anymore! Poor baby, it about broke my heart) Luckily at this point neither of them have an idea about what the word means! (at least I hope they don't)

[Radish4ever]

That stinks, but it's nice to know your DS is mature enough to recognize it and not get sucked in!

[Ottakee]

i would also talk to the camp director and let them know what was going on. Likely more supervision is needed. Yes, thist stuff happens with kids that age but it should have been monitored, nipped in the bud, etc.

[Jennifer in MI]

I agree with the PP who said to let the camp supervisors know so they can keep a closer eye on it!

 

That said, my 8 yo ds knows all of that too. He gets it from having older brothers, so he's exposed to more at a younger age than my older two were. Now, my 8 yo does not actually USE any of those words/excuses (well, except the gay thing - but he used it once and had no clue what it meant! He overheard it at karate and used it himself. Luckily, I was there to explain what it meant and that he's not to use it like that.), but he does know them.

[MamaT]

My youngest son knows these things as well, also from having older brothers. He is usually smart enough not to say them though.

[Jolash]

i would also talk to the camp director and let them know what was going on. Likely more supervision is needed. Yes, thist stuff happens with kids that age but it should have been monitored, nipped in the bud, etc.

 

I'm thinking through my response to the camp director. I know I can't just let this pass.

 

A little more info: My dh went along as a chaperone for our group of 4 boys. They all stayed together and surprisingly were well behaved, even according to my preacher hubby! The real "problem" children were the ones there without a specific chaperone (ie, they'd registered not as part of a church group but on their own)

 

This was our first experience with sleep away summer camp and I had no idea of the questions that I should have asked about supervision, discipline, etc. Hind sight's 20/20 of course and I can think of about a dozen questions I'd ask if he were leaving today. I guess I'm just dismayed at the lax parenting that's evident in these poor kids. Of course, at 9 or so, you have some idea of what's appropriate and what's not, so the boys are partially responsible for their own behavior.

 

Now I'm left to pick up the pieces of my baby's shattered innocence! (Said tongue in cheek) But there is a huge sadness in me knowing he's been exposed to these issues already.

[Ibbygirl]

Oh gosh! My daughter is going to summer camp for the first time at the end of this month and she really IS different. Thankfully my husband is going too as a leader on the boy's side so she'll be able to tell him if the other kids start to bully her. I hope that this doesn't happen to her. I'm so sorry it happened to your ds. :(

[kah]

I'm always surprised by the things kids seem to learn or just know. And then I remember some really nifty songs I learned on the day camp bus when I was about 7. :eek:

 

As far as definitions, I do remember, since I knew they were all what my mom called "bathroom talk," that they all referred to the same 4-letter bathroom thing.

[Jorsay]

I have a 10 year old son. I have a different point of view.

 

I am not criticizing you, just offering my point of view. I am not claiming that I know better than you, what is good for your child. I don't.

 

In my opinion, your son was exposed to the rest of the world. Not the typical adult world, but the typical world of his peers. If the same thing were to happen to my child, my response would be concern that he was not well prepared to deal with his peers in the rest of the world. I would coach him on how best to deal with the situation and then send him back to the same enviornment and let him try again.

 

You have described bullying, teasing, swearing, and name calling. This is what most kids (and even adults) do. Unless someone was in physical danger, I wouldn't complain to the camp director. How can the camp director stop kids from doing what kids do naturally, especially when he only has the kids for a couple of weeks. You won't be able to change the entire world for your son. Instead, if it were my son, I would teach him to live in the world rather than to criticize it and avoid it. I would teach him to live in it in the way that I think is best. Perhaps rather than hiding from the peer group, you can teach him to rise above the peer group and to lead it.

 

By the way, something similiar happened to my child when he entered public school. He was bullied, swore at, and ridiculed. I taught him to wrestle (so he could not be physically intimidated and bullied), to stand up for himself and others, to make friends, to make himself the leader, and to lead. It has taken a lot of hard work and a long time (years in fact), but he has moved a long way toward accomplishing this.

 

Again, this is nothing more than my opinion. It may be completely wrong for your child and for your values.

[JennifersLost]

I remember going to camp in fourth grade. It really was an eye-opener. It was an all-girls camp, though, so there wasn't everything you're talking about.

 

I definitely ran into my first real "tough" girls, though; girls who would shove you around, etc.

 

I think I learned about same-sex couples (the possibility of it) there, because at least one of the female counselors had a girlfriend. My parents should have already passed that kind of information down - not in a graphic way, but just to let me know that some women like women, etc. The counselor herself was quite appropriate about it; just let us know that it was her choice and that some people were like that.

 

The funniest thing, looking back, was that I was most shocked by the fact that I met people who lived in.....wait for it......apartments!!!! I'd never met anyone who lived in apartment before and I was really shocked to the core to learn that not everyone owned a house with a yard.

 

Those apartment dwellers just seemed so incredibly different to me at the time.

 

I think one thing to realize about any sleepaway camp is that a certain percentage of kids are there because they are not wanted at home. They are going to have issues....

 

I think it's just best to prepare kids for that ahead of time.

[MIch elle]

IT's a 4 night soccer camp at Holy Cross College. I can only hope that it goes well.

 

I'm sorry your 9 yo had to experience this!

[Ottakee]

i posted about telling the camp director, and I still hold with that, but I also agree with you.

 

The kids WILL behave like this and be exposed to different things. I guess my thing with contacting the camp director was how it was handled---did staff step in and stop the teasing? was the swearing stopped?, etc.

 

Camp should be a safe place for kids---not one where they will be teased and have no protection from it, etc.

 

On the other hand, I do agree that in this day and age, kids do need to know more than we might like for them to know. They need to know HOW to handle the swearing, teasing, etc.

 

I wish my mother would have talked me through the "what to do when......... happens" type things. I was pretty clueless in many areas and learned stuff from the wrong sources.

[Jolash]

I have a 10 year old son. I have a different point of view.

 

I am not criticizing you, just offering my point of view. I am not claiming that I know better than you, what is good for your child. I don't.

 

In my opinion, your son was exposed to the rest of the world. Not the typical adult world, but the typical world of his peers. If the same thing were to happen to my child, my response would be concern that he was not well prepared to deal with his peers in the rest of the world. I would coach him on how best to deal with the situation and then send him back to the same enviornment and let him try again.

 

You have described bullying, teasing, swearing, and name calling. This is what most kids (and even adults) do. Unless someone was in physical danger, I wouldn't complain to the camp director. How can the camp director stop kids from doing what kids do naturally, especially when he only has the kids for a couple of weeks. [I]You won't be able to change the entire world for your son. Instead, if it were my son, I would teach him to live in the world rather than to criticize it and avoid it. I would teach him to live in it in the way that I think is best. Perhaps rather than hiding from the peer group, you can teach him to rise above the peer group and to lead it.[/i] By the way, something similiar happened to my child when he entered public school. He was bullied, swore at, and ridiculed. I taught him to wrestle (so he could not be physically intimidated and bullied), to stand up for himself and others, to make friends, to make himself the leader, and to lead. It has taken a lot of hard work and a long time (years in fact), but he has moved a long way toward accomplishing this.

 

Again, this is nothing more than my opinion. It may be completely wrong for your child and for your values.

 

Thanks for your POV. I am not advocating hiding from his peer group.. far from it. In fact, our long term parenting vision is to equip him TO rise above it and positively affect his peer groups. I think he's learning to do just that. And I agree with you that it's important for him to learn what the world's really like. We just take the view that he'll be exposed to things as he's able to understand them. I mean, we only just had "the" talk this past spring... how can I possibly explain homosexual relationships to a kid who's only got a vague idea of a normal one, between husband and wife!!:lol:

 

I guess what's so disconcerting is that this kind of behavior is considered "what most kids and adults do" or doing what is naturally what kids do. That being said, I do vaguely remember being 10 or so and the thrill of late night talks on forbidden subjects with my friends, so maybe it is just part of the maturation process. But boy, it sure hurts a Mommy's heart!:001_smile:

[Tree House Academy]

My oldest son is at summer camp right now - Church camp. Before we even left the place after dropoff, my friend's daughter was in tears due to some very cruel and rude behavior by her roommates (and fellow CHURCH MEMBERS!) !!! How sad is that? I mean, my heart just breaks for her tonight. They switched her room, so I hope she is feeling much better now with new roomies. It just blows my mind that kids can be so mean, rude, cruel, and unkind. The way all of those ps kids act, I praise GOD that I am able to homeschool!!!

[Plucky]

Thanks for your POV. I am not advocating hiding from his peer group.. far from it. In fact, our long term parenting vision is to equip him TO rise above it and positively affect his peer groups. I think he's learning to do just that. And I agree with you that it's important for him to learn what the world's really like. We just take the view that he'll be exposed to things as he's able to understand them. I mean, we only just had "the" talk this past spring... how can I possibly explain homosexual relationships to a kid who's only got a vague idea of a normal one, between husband and wife!!:lol:

 

I guess what's so disconcerting is that this kind of behavior is considered "what most kids and adults do" or doing what is naturally what kids do. That being said, I do vaguely remember being 10 or so and the thrill of late night talks on forbidden subjects with my friends, so maybe it is just part of the maturation process. But boy, it sure hurts a Mommy's heart!:001_smile:

 

Shari, my oldest was 11 and at his first Boy Scout camp. He learned all about nudity on the internet from a Christian homeschooled boy. The boy told him where to go etc. I was shocked. I now know that he probably would've learned it within a couple of months anyway. Kids learn a lot from other kids. At least he shared everything with you. That speaks volumes. When your kiddo is telling you what is going on you can then guide them. You're a great mom.

[Tree House Academy]

I have a 10 year old son. I have a different point of view.

 

I am not criticizing you, just offering my point of view. I am not claiming that I know better than you, what is good for your child. I don't.

 

In my opinion, your son was exposed to the rest of the world. Not the typical adult world, but the typical world of his peers. If the same thing were to happen to my child, my response would be concern that he was not well prepared to deal with his peers in the rest of the world. I would coach him on how best to deal with the situation and then send him back to the same enviornment and let him try again.

 

You have described bullying, teasing, swearing, and name calling. This is what most kids (and even adults) do. Unless someone was in physical danger, I wouldn't complain to the camp director. How can the camp director stop kids from doing what kids do naturally, especially when he only has the kids for a couple of weeks. You won't be able to change the entire world for your son. Instead, if it were my son, I would teach him to live in the world rather than to criticize it and avoid it. I would teach him to live in it in the way that I think is best. Perhaps rather than hiding from the peer group, you can teach him to rise above the peer group and to lead it.

 

By the way, something similiar happened to my child when he entered public school. He was bullied, swore at, and ridiculed. I taught him to wrestle (so he could not be physically intimidated and bullied), to stand up for himself and others, to make friends, to make himself the leader, and to lead. It has taken a lot of hard work and a long time (years in fact), but he has moved a long way toward accomplishing this.

 

Again, this is nothing more than my opinion. It may be completely wrong for your child and for your values.

 

I partially agree with this. Kids definitely, at some point, need to learn how the world works and learn to roll with the punches. However, I don't want my 10 and 6 year olds to have to learn these hard lessons just yet. My 10 year old went to ps and he knows, all too well, what that world is like. It changed his personality completely...adn NOT in a good way. My 6 year old, however, has never learned that there are people who won't like him just because he is...him. And honestly, I see no reason to purposefully expose him to those hurtful things just yet. When he is older, he can better understand why this happens and keep his self esteem in check. But, when ridicule starts at age 5 or 6, self esteem can really plummet. My older son deals with hurt by getting angry...and he is angry a LOT. My younger son has to be one of the most tender hearted and loving kids who ever lived. He cries if he thinks HE has hurt someone's feelings. I just can't imagine throwing the hard knocks of life at him just yet.

 

My plan is to hold off on the rude cruel "real" word for a good long while with my kids. We will talk about what goes on, we will talk about how to handle these things, and we will talk about what wonderful people they are because they are their own person and no one should ever change that. Then and only then will I send them out to wade through the sludge.

[I.Dup.]

I'm sorry that your son had to experience those things at his age, but it's good that you learned this lesson now before something worse happens.

 

The main reason I keep my children out of situations like this where I cannot directly supervise, is because I know how quickly things can happen, namely s*xual abuse, and that can scar a child for life and alter who they are. People may say I'm overprotective, but I have experienced the damage and seen in many others the damage that s*xual abuse causes, and will protect my children until they are old enough to protect themselves. We were eating dinner at a missionary friends house, and their children tried to molest my daughter in the back bedroom when they were in there for less than 30 seconds. For this reason we will always directly supervise our children when around others. It's just not worth the risk for us personally. But I'm sure those who haven't lived with the ravages of s*xual abuse may feel differently and have more of a "live and let live" kind of outlook, and I just hope they never have to deal with the devastation it can cause.

 

It sounds like you're doing a great job of stepping up and protecting your son, and I applaud you. :)

[LibraryLover]

One of my children went to school until age 9 quite happlity and safely. The second yr we were hsing, my child was verbally abused and sexually threatened by a young teen who had been hs'd his entire life. He had never stepped foot in a school. That family (several children, religious etc) is a movie of the week/America's Most Wanted episode waiting to happen.

 

I didn't stop hsing, of course, but I realized right there that hsing doesn't mean squat, really. It's all about the parenting.

[I.Dup.]

hsing doesn't mean squat, really. It's all about the parenting.

 

I agree and so much of this starts with s*xual abuse. I would bet money that kid had been abused, at a family friend's house, or by a family member, or whathaveyou. Children do not naturally know how to abuse and s*xually assault others unless they themselves have been exposed to it. That is why, IMO, it is so important that we protect and shelter our children to stop this cycle of abuse. Homeschoolers can be abused just as easily as anyone else, it takes a couple minutes of nobody around.

[MyThreeSons]

One of his friends from church was in his cabin a couple of years ago at camp. The friend was so upset by how the others treated my son, that he won't go back to camp. My son -- who could easily be upset -- can't wait to go back. I guess that really speaks to his quirkiness ....

[Danestress]

Even kids at "Christian" camps and events and even kids with wonderful parents who are not lax in any way are capable of doing these things. They are exploring relationships and asserting themselves and figuring it all out.

 

I personally don't like my kids spending the night out anywhere because I just know how nice kids get at about 12:00 am when there are no adults hanging around.

 

I'm glad your son told you about all of this.

[gardening momma]

Honestly, where do nine and ten year olds learn this stuff?

I, unfortunately, learned some things from a friend's house I went to, and I didn't understand at the time that I shouldn't repeat such things to friends at school (until the words were out of my mouth, and they stared at me with gaping mouths). I think I sort of knew it was bad, and but even then I doubt I fully comprehended how bad...now I know! ETA-not abuse.

Edited July 6, 2009 by gardening momma

[Laura Corin]

 

In my opinion, your son was exposed to the rest of the world. Not the typical adult world, but the typical world of his peers. If the same thing were to happen to my child, my response would be concern that he was not well prepared to deal with his peers in the rest of the world. I would coach him on how best to deal with the situation and then send him back to the same enviornment and let him try again.

 

 

Home education has given Calvin enough strength and independence that these things don't bother him. I make sure he's fully informed on issues that I think might come up, and he tells me what happens when he comes back.

 

I do worry more about Hobbes, who is more dependent on others' opinion. He's been teased about his stutter, but so far he's standing tall.

 

Laura

[LibraryLover]

I agree and so much of this starts with s*xual abuse. I would bet money that kid had been abused, at a family friend's house, or by a family member, or whathaveyou. Children do not naturally know how to abuse and s*xually assault others unless they themselves have been exposed to it. That is why, IMO, it is so important that we protect and shelter our children to stop this cycle of abuse. Homeschoolers can be abused just as easily as anyone else, it takes a couple minutes of nobody around.

 

I think it's an anger issue. The parents are very rough and strict, and don't allow any discussion any sort, spank for minor infractions etc. All of the kids are cowed, but act out in some way. Very nicey nice around the parents, but mean to smaller kids. They aren't around much anyway, thankfully, as they think most kids are bad influences on theirs. We never go to any hsing event where they are likely to be.