yet another honesty question...nursing homes

[Lawana]

What happens to your elderly parents or grandparents is an admittedly emotional issue. The broader societal issue is who will pay the cost. If we believe that the government- read taxpayer (you and me) should bear the cost, then that is a system of income redristribution. I make x dollars and pay y taxes, supporting your parent in a nursing home, or 2x dollars and pay 3y taxes. If your mother's nursing home bill can be paid by someone else, why not? And if your mother can then leave her land to you, then great for you. But what if there are so many mothers and fathers and grandfathers and grandmothers that need nursing home care that the system is about to implode? And the burden must be born by increasing your taxes, to the point that you can no longer afford to live as you desire? Do you put 2 and 2 together and realize that you can't have it both ways?

 

Lawana

[Penelope]

 

As for why we're broke... I'm more miffed about bridges to nowhere, pork pork pork, art shows on the public bill, and spending of that sort.

 

I agree that there is much waste and it is infuriating.

[lionfamily1999]

What happens to your elderly parents or grandparents is an admittedly emotional issue. The broader societal issue is who will pay the cost. If we believe that the government- read taxpayer (you and me) should bear the cost, then that is a system of income redristribution. I make x dollars and pay y taxes, supporting your parent in a nursing home, or 2x dollars and pay 3y taxes. If your mother's nursing home bill can be paid by someone else, why not? And if your mother can then leave her land to you, then great for you. But what if there are so many mothers and fathers and grandfathers and grandmothers that need nursing home care that the system is about to implode? And the burden must be born by increasing your taxes, to the point that you can no longer afford to live as you desire? Do you put 2 and 2 together and realize that you can't have it both ways?

 

Lawana

Yes, but some of those taxes were supposed to be set aside for later, to deal with these issues. They gave x dollars for their futures and the government spent it as it came in, instead of putting it into some sort of savings plan. Now, do we say, golly they screwed you, sorry, and leave it at that? Or, do we pay these people what they are owed based on an agreement with our government, and simply make it clear that from today forward, your SS/Medicaid money goes to pay whatever DC says it should and is only titled SS/Med money to make you feel less sick about having to pay it?

[Ferdie]

These are people that PAID their taxes, people that were told, pay into SS and we will take care of you when you are too old to do so.

 

Actually growing up we were told the opposite. I am 50 years old and in public school I was taught that social security fund would be depleted by the time we retire, and that we needed to be prepared to support ourselves and not depend on the government. I will honestly be shocked if I see any social security money when I retire.

[lionfamily1999]

Actually growing up we were told the opposite. I am 50 years old and in public school I was taught that social security fund would be depleted by the time we retire, and that we needed to be prepared to support ourselves and not depend on the government. I will honestly be shocked if I see any social security money when I retire.

Yes, you and I both, but you're not going into a home any decade soon. I'm talking about your parents' generation, the folks that were lied to about that.

[Impish]

Thanks to those who appreciated my previous response.

 

Here's some irony for you that you may appreciate:

 

Due to my line of work, I was grabbed by a resident. I now have RSD, which is most easily explained as permanent nerve damage, severe chronic pain, and has cost me about 80% use of my dominant hand/arm.

 

I *won't* be able to care for any of my relatives, should the need arise. And considering my dh is an only child, his mother is in her 80s (she adopted him in her 40s) the need has already come to be honest, if we had the room. There's no way I could physically manage to care for her, not to mention that stress = increased pain for me.

 

So, I'm physically incapable of keeping any loved one out of a LTC. Because I worked in one.

 

Isn't it ironic. Dontcha think. A little too ironic. Yeah, I really do think. Its like raaaaaaaainnnnn on yer wedding day....

 

Sorry. A lil Alanis Morrisette. She's Canadian too. :lol:

[lionfamily1999]

:lol: Oh Impish. You're so silly :P

[Ibbygirl]

Thanks to those who appreciated my previous response.

 

Here's some irony for you that you may appreciate:

 

Due to my line of work, I was grabbed by a resident. I now have RSD, which is most easily explained as permanent nerve damage, severe chronic pain, and has cost me about 80% use of my dominant hand/arm.

 

I *won't* be able to care for any of my relatives, should the need arise. And considering my dh is an only child, his mother is in her 80s (she adopted him in her 40s) the need has already come to be honest, if we had the room. There's no way I could physically manage to care for her, not to mention that stress = increased pain for me.

 

So, I'm physically incapable of keeping any loved one out of a LTC. Because I worked in one.

 

Isn't it ironic. Dontcha think. A little too ironic. Yeah, I really do think. Its like raaaaaaaainnnnn on yer wedding day....

 

Sorry. A lil Alanis Morrisette. She's Canadian too. :lol:

 

 

Oh I'm so sorry to hear that!! :grouphug: A very unhappy irony to be sure. :(

[lollie010]

How is it just a planning issue? Passing along your personal assets for the express purpose of having the taxpaying citizens of our country pay your expenses is unethical. Also, to my {admittedly minimal} understanding, illegal. There are risks, for sure, in breaking the law and stealing, and there should be *big consequences* to those who are stealing public funds that way.

 

Sorry. I have been out today and have not had a chance to follow the thread, but did want to respond. I did not know that we were talking about something illegal. Very, very sorry. I wasn't really thinking about someone who only did this to hide personal assets. I will now go back and read the rest of the thread.

[Impish]

What happens to your elderly parents or grandparents is an admittedly emotional issue. The broader societal issue is who will pay the cost. If we believe that the government- read taxpayer (you and me) should bear the cost, then that is a system of income redristribution. I make x dollars and pay y taxes, supporting your parent in a nursing home, or 2x dollars and pay 3y taxes. If your mother's nursing home bill can be paid by someone else, why not? And if your mother can then leave her land to you, then great for you. But what if there are so many mothers and fathers and grandfathers and grandmothers that need nursing home care that the system is about to implode? And the burden must be born by increasing your taxes, to the point that you can no longer afford to live as you desire? Do you put 2 and 2 together and realize that you can't have it both ways?

 

Lawana

Here's a solution. How about the facilities charge Joe Average the same price as they charge the government for the exact same flippin service?! That way, Joe Average could afford to pay his own way, probably for the rest of his days, AND leave the land that's been in his family for generations to his children! Now, what a novel concept that is!

 

But of course, you're not going to see that! No, course not! Because everyone's out for a profit, and LTC is no different. They still make profit from the government prices too...just not as much.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

From Penelope If you think nursing home should be paid for the average person, why should the "super rich" not be able to pass on their inheritance? Didn't they likely work hard for it, too? Why is it fair for Mr. A who lived like a miser his whole life and saved a million to pass on to his son (let's just say the son is even disabled in some way, or maybe he has 10 children to pass down to) to pay for his care and deplete his assets, while Mr. B. living on the same street who always had new cars, a boat, spent his vacations travelling in Europe and generally kept up with the Jones's, gets free care?

 

Who decides what super rich is?

Maybe if I live in a rented duplex I think someone who owns his own land is "super rich". Just sayin'.

 

This is the kind of argument that I believe is going to lead to the USA being socialist sooner rather than later. Pretty soon there will be more people saying "I want mine" than there are to actually pay big bucks into the system. And then there will be a lot less for everyone.

__________________

 

I believe in paying my fair share of taxes as well as Warren Buffet:). I do not think taxes should be a "dirty" word so to speak or that it is socialism. Yes, I do get frustrated with goverment waste, but there also examples of goverment effciency such as medicare. Medicare is more efficient than private health insurance with significantly less administrative costs. Perhaps this is due to CEO's and other insurance executives making oodles of money. There have also been glaring examples of private business waste, fraud, etc. as well as efficiencies. I know from personal experience that my dh is a very efficient goverment sub-contractor;)

 

As to who do decides who is super rich, I would let that up to our elected representatives since that would still give us input. What I meant by super rich is someone who can easily afford it, but I think that defination would have to be carefully thought out.

 

I also agree with the frugal lifestyle.:) I think that too many Americans have been caught up into that buy, buy ,buy mentality that has been sold to them:) I think that there are many things that families can to do to be frugal such as not caving into every latest gadet, etc. I think that dave ramsey gives excellent advice:)

 

My only point was that I suspect that over 90% of Americans cannot afford to pay for nursing home care even if they sold all of their goods. I do not think they should have to either. Of course, I think that people should try to amass as much savings, etc. I also think that families should try to take care of loved ones at home, but as a nurse I know that is not always possible.

 

I also think that extended families should even consider living together as they did in the old days to help each when possible and especiallly in hard times.

 

just my 2 cents:)

Edited June 13, 2009 by priscilla

[Lawana]

Yes, but some of those taxes were supposed to be set aside for later, to deal with these issues. They gave x dollars for their futures and the government spent it as it came in, instead of putting it into some sort of savings plan. Now, do we say, golly they screwed you, sorry, and leave it at that? Or, do we pay these people what they are owed based on an agreement with our government, and simply make it clear that from today forward, your SS/Medicaid money goes to pay whatever DC says it should and is only titled SS/Med money to make you feel less sick about having to pay it?

 

I agree, that is how is was billed. You are paying for your future. Unfortunately, I think it was a "big lie" to get people to buy into the arrangement. IMO the unintended side effect was a deterioration of self responsibility. I certainly don't put any eggs into the basket of "my future is secure" in the hands of the government. Are there any easy answers? Of course not. Should we throw Grandma under the bus? THat would hardly do. Do we need to reevaluate our social policy? Absolutely.

 

Lawana

[Impish]

:lol: Oh Impish. You're so silly :P

I try :D Some days, ya laugh or cry. Laughing is always better. Unless you're in for a psych assessment. Then they start to look at you oddly. Seriously. :glare: btdt. He actually asked me how my sense of humour was. :glare: I told him if he hadn't figured it out yet, then either I needed better material, or he wasn't paying attention.

 

Oh, a tip for anyone that might ever have to go for a psych eval. *Mine was ordered by Workers Comp, who was trying to prove my pain was in my head, not in my arm...didn't go in their favour*

 

When asked if you hear voices when nobody's around, the correct answer is not: "Sure!....but then I turn the TV off!" and then followed by, "Shuddap, Harvey, he's talking to me!" Shrinks do not tend to have a great sense of ha ha. :glare:

[MyThreeSons]

With the husband's death, she lost all his pensions and other retirement pay. She is 76 and had to find a job.

 

My Dad drew a somewhat smaller pension while he was living so that when he passed away, my Mom would still receive something. They could have had more per month while he was alive, but it would have stopped cold when he passed away. They had a very good financial planner who knew about these things.

[Ferdie]

Yes, you and I both, but you're not going into a home any decade soon. I'm talking about your parents' generation, the folks that were lied to about that.

 

When was this?? My Mom is 83 and grew up during the depression so she wasn't taught that either.

 

Interestingly, my mom still works part-time at a preschool. Bless her heart.

[lionfamily1999]

I try :D Some days, ya laugh or cry. Laughing is always better. Unless you're in for a psych assessment. Then they start to look at you oddly. Seriously. :glare: btdt. He actually asked me how my sense of humour was. :glare: I told him if he hadn't figured it out yet, then either I needed better material, or he wasn't paying attention.

 

Oh, a tip for anyone that might ever have to go for a psych eval. *Mine was ordered by Workers Comp, who was trying to prove my pain was in my head, not in my arm...didn't go in their favour*

 

When asked if you hear voices when nobody's around, the correct answer is not: "Sure!....but then I turn the TV off!" and then followed by, "Shuddap, Harvey, he's talking to me!" Shrinks do not tend to have a great sense of ha ha. :glare:

 

:lol:

[lionfamily1999]

I agree, that is how is was billed. You are paying for your future. Unfortunately, I think it was a "big lie" to get people to buy into the arrangement. IMO the unintended side effect was a deterioration of self responsibility. I certainly don't put any eggs into the basket of "my future is secure" in the hands of the government. Are there any easy answers? Of course not. Should we throw Grandma under the bus? THat would hardly do. Do we need to reevaluate our social policy? Absolutely.

 

Lawana

I'm not sure that it damaged personal responsibility. People believed they were being responsible by paying into it. It's definitely messed up government credibility.

[Vida Winter]

No, sorry, FAMILIES should take care of their elderly.

 

Personally, I will do everything I can to make sure my parents and in-laws don't end up in nursing homes. In the "old days" nobody thought this was the government's responsibility. It is the family's. And I wish that the gov't. would take some of that money that they would use for a nursing home, and assist families who need help with in-home aides, if a family member absolutely cannot afford to stay home and care for the elderly person. The government saves money, family gets to keep their land, and grandmother is with people that love her.

 

This is absolutely what needs to happen.

[Tree House Academy]

:001_huh:

I dont understand?? If the elderly used their very own assets to pay for their care, how is this unfair? You believe that the children should get all of their parents assets, while they pass on the parents care to others??? IOW, they (relatives) are not going to do the day to day care of their parents, but they DESERVE mom and dads money, rather than the nursing facility that is actually providing the care? Others should pay for this, while the children take the assets that mom and dad worked for and could have used to pay their own way?

 

I am sorry, but even though I do think our system is broken and in need of compassionate repair, I am baffled by your indifference to personal responsibility. You really cannot see how that attitude contributes to the problem??:sad:

 

You portray the nursing home as a vile, awful place. Please dont let your dh send his father there. I hope that you can find another way to care for him. No matter how or by whom it is paid for.

 

Kim

 

 

First off, My dh's dad is dead. As is his grandfather. And I am pretty certain I didn't ask for your advice on the care of my loved ones.

 

No, I do not think I should pass on the care for my loved ones while I get all of their money. If you knew my family and what little my parents have, you would realize how stupid that comment was.

 

What I believe is that people who work hard and pay taxes all their lives have the right to pass down their valuables and family heirlooms - be that land, personal property, etc. before anyone comes in and takes it all from them. The cost of a nursing home is outrageous - and to pay that kind of cost PLUS lose everything you have is just horrific. My mom has residents who are depressed and actually on suicide watch because their home and every penny they have was taken to pay the outrageous and unnecessary cost!

 

The system is more than flawed - though the word I am thinking of also begins with F :blink:

Edited June 13, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[I talk to the trees]

Impish-:grouphug: Your story is indeed an ironic one.

 

I think we have two issues that are being danced around here:

 

1) Those of us who do "pay into the system" (social security, medicare, etc...) DO have a sense of entitlement, and rightfully so. If the government is going to take our money with the promise of caring for us in our golden years, why shouldn't we feel that we are owed that money back? Ah, but it's not enough to sustain us, and many of us (myself included) are pretty darned certain that we will NEVER, EVER see a penny of that money once it leaves our paychecks. Still, rather than letting us keep that money, and invest it as well as we can, the government continues to take, take, take. I mean, how on earth could people possibly know how to invest their own money? Don't they realize that they NEED Big Brother to steal it from them, and mismanage it for them?

 

I have always thought that the best solution to this problem would be to take the SS funds, and invest them in an account which will be used as a pension fund *for the elderly relatives of an individual.* So money that comes from dh's paycheck goes to an account which can only be accessed by his parents. And my paychecks would have money deducted and used by my parents. I know I would stop grumbling TODAY about the amount withdrawn for SS if I knew it was being deposited into my parents' checking account.

 

2) We have, through the miracle of modern medicine, managed to extend life quite unnaturally. Machines and medications are available which keep the body going- if only just barely- when the mind is gone. We have clung to the idea that Quantity is better than Quality. If we can buy (literally) another year of life for our parent or grandparent, we feel that we must, even though that person may not even know they are in this world, and may even be wishing to leave it. At what point do we let a body fail because that is what is best? It is a slippery slope, and a frightening discussion for many, because we don't want to be the one who takes away grandma's last few weeks or months, if she is indeed capable of *living.* Nor do we want someone to step in and tell us that our time is up, if we are still happy, competent, and productive (even if we have slowed down) in our last years. In any case, this is a decision that the government should NEVER be allowed to make, and that is why I am so wary of the government taking over health care.

 

So now, I'm up to $.04!

-Robin

[Impish]

No, sorry, FAMILIES should take care of their elderly.

 

Personally, I will do everything I can to make sure my parents and in-laws don't end up in nursing homes. In the "old days" nobody thought this was the government's responsibility. It is the family's. And I wish that the gov't. would take some of that money that they would use for a nursing home, and assist families who need help with in-home aides, if a family member absolutely cannot afford to stay home and care for the elderly person. The government saves money, family gets to keep their land, and grandmother is with people that love her.

Here's the thing. Not all families can. Witness my own ironic situation, now disabled because of having worked in a LTC.

 

There's a myriad of reasons why a family cannot care for Grandma. Take, for example, Grandma with Alzheimer's, and a family with young children. Many people think patients with Alzheimer's just get forgetful, but unfortunately, that's not true. As mentioned previously in this thread, they can also be quite aggressive, even physically violent. This can present a very real danger for a family with young children...or any age of child. Or adult. Some patients, men in particular, can become s*xually aggressive. They don't realize that its their daughter, DIL, or granddaughter that they're making advances on.

 

Then there's the more benign, but no less dangerous issues regarding issues such as stoves being turned on in the middle of the night and fires breaking out, tubs being started and flooding resulting in property damage, and Grandma wandering away in the middle of the night and either becoming ill or even dying from exposure.

 

Families that don't care for their elderly don't *always* make these choices out of cold calculation, not wishing to disrupt their own lives, etc. Many times its a heart breaking decision, but truly done out of trying to do the best thing for their loved ones, recognizing that they cannot ensure the safety of all involved.

 

Unless you know every detail of the situation, which you cannot possibly unless its YOUR family, please refrain from offering unasked for judgments and advice. You cannot possibly know the situation, and the reasons for the decisions made. You just can't. And often times, you're only causing more and more pain in your rush to judgment.

 

There's one thing I'd ask folks to truly keep in mind when discussing this sort of thing. "There but for the grace of God go I" Truly, until its your family that's facing this, you can *think* you know, swear you know what you'd do...but its such a multifaceted situation, you really, truly cannot.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Impish

[Ferdie]

First off, My dh's dad is dead. As is his grandfather. And I am pretty certain I didn't ask for your advice on the care of my loved ones.

 

No, I do not think I should pass on the care for my loved ones while I get all of their money. If you knew my family and what little my parents have, you would realize how stupid that comment was.

 

What I believe is that people who work hard and pay taxes all their lives have the right to pass down their valuables and family heirlooms - be that land, personal property, etc. before anyone comes in and takes it all from them. The cost of a nursing home is outrageous - and to pay that kind of cost PLUS lose everything you have is just horrific. My mom has residents who are depressed and actually on suicide watch because their home and every penny they have was taken to pay the outrageous and unnecessary cost!

 

The system is more than flawed - though the word I am thinking of also begins with F :blink:

 

Well, here is another way to look at it. My grandmother authorized us, (her grandkids) to sell her assets, (house/car) and then used that money to pay for a nursing home of her choosing. She didn't wait for the gov't to come in and take her assets and she had input into where she spent her final days.

 

There is no way my dh and I would have taken her assets and expected the gov't to pay for her care. That doesn't make any sense to me no matter how hard she worked for her assets. She had a very cool house, too. It was in a very unique part of Hollywood, CA with a lot of history. My dh and I would have loved to live there, but we couldn't afford to buy the property from her. We were so thankful that the money from her assets was enough to provide for her care until the end. Her only son died several years before her so the expense of her care would have fallen to me and my dh.

[Ibbygirl]

Here's the thing. Not all families can. Witness my own ironic situation, now disabled because of having worked in a LTC.

 

There's a myriad of reasons why a family cannot care for Grandma. Take, for example, Grandma with Alzheimer's, and a family with young children. Many people think patients with Alzheimer's just get forgetful, but unfortunately, that's not true. As mentioned previously in this thread, they can also be quite aggressive, even physically violent. This can present a very real danger for a family with young children...or any age of child. Or adult. Some patients, men in particular, can become s*xually aggressive. They don't realize that its their daughter, DIL, or granddaughter that they're making advances on.

 

Then there's the more benign, but no less dangerous issues regarding issues such as stoves being turned on in the middle of the night and fires breaking out, tubs being started and flooding resulting in property damage, and Grandma wandering away in the middle of the night and either becoming ill or even dying from exposure.

 

Families that don't care for their elderly don't *always* make these choices out of cold calculation, not wishing to disrupt their own lives, etc. Many times its a heart breaking decision, but truly done out of trying to do the best thing for their loved ones, recognizing that they cannot ensure the safety of all involved.

 

Unless you know every detail of the situation, which you cannot possibly unless its YOUR family, please refrain from offering unasked for judgments and advice. You cannot possibly know the situation, and the reasons for the decisions made. You just can't. And often times, you're only causing more and more pain in your rush to judgment.

 

There's one thing I'd ask folks to truly keep in mind when discussing this sort of thing. "There but for the grace of God go I" Truly, until its your family that's facing this, you can *think* you know, swear you know what you'd do...but its such a multifaceted situation, you really, truly cannot.

 

 

 

Very well said! :iagree:

[Renee in NC]

It has really nothing to do with "leaving something for the kids" - it has more to do with not dying penniless and having everything you ever owned taken so that the government can make 5K per person in a double room.

 

This country SHOULD take care of their elderly. I definitely don't look at your 2cents worth of tax money as "taking care of my parents while I get their land." :glare:

 

AND...the last sentence...Governmental assistance is intended to pay for those who have no resources to pay for their own needs, not for those who'd rather use their money for something else, or give it away. ...So your suggestion then, is, just don't save for retirement. Then, when you can't afford it (because you didn't plan well or didn't make much or just didn't care to save for the future) the tax payers will gladly step in. However, if you worked all your life doing the best you can and in the end, it comes down to owing millions you never "planned" to spend - and you'd like to keep the house or the land or the valuables in the family, tough crap. Right?

 

The gov't isn't getting anything at all from that $5K a month. Other than VA homes, I have never seen a gov't owned nursing home. They are privately owned by people who generally want to make a profit.

[Renee in NC]

I'm not sure that it damaged personal responsibility. People believed they were being responsible by paying into it. It's definitely messed up government credibility.

 

But they are receiving back what they paid in and then some in the form of Medicare and SS, right? The SS payment goes to the nursing home to pay part of the bill (at least that is how my grandmother helped pay for my grandfather's $5K per month.)

[Avila]

I don't know which side I fall on this. My great-grandma did sell her house so she could go on Medicaid (no flames at me, please, I was only 6 when this happened!). The irony of this, I guess, is that ended up in a nursing home for 20 years, and since she had very little money to begin with, even if she had used it, it would have long run out before that.

 

My MIL just faced putting her mother, who had Alzheimer's, in a nursing home. Grandpa and Grandma toughed it out at home much longer than they really should have because he was terrified of the cost. Grandma ended up in the home for only 6 months, and Grandpa paid the full cost for that, but he had to sell his house and lose his independence in the process. He is now living with my MIL, who is an only child. None of us could have taken care of Grandma at the end. I could get more graphic than this, but we are talking about her no longer using the bathroom, refusing to bathe, and having violent outbursts. She was also having chronic health problems because she was unable to take care of herself, so we all considered it a blessing to have her in a place where she would be regularly cared for. Grandpa worked and saved his whole life, and that is all gone. Honestly, if he ends up needing to be in a home, he will be on Medicaid because his life savings was spent already on Grandma's nursing home care.

 

The sad part is that because people are living longer and living longer with chronic health problems, we are going to be seeing more and more of this. And how many peoople just figure their money will run out and they will end up on Medicaid anyhow, so why lose everything in the process? And how many people can realistically take care of the eldery in their homes? Some of us maybe, but most families have two working adults and no one home during the day.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Asenik

[NorthwestMom]

Here's the thing. Not all families can. Witness my own ironic situation, now disabled because of having worked in a LTC.

 

There's a myriad of reasons why a family cannot care for Grandma. Take, for example, Grandma with Alzheimer's, and a family with young children. Many people think patients with Alzheimer's just get forgetful, but unfortunately, that's not true. As mentioned previously in this thread, they can also be quite aggressive, even physically violent. This can present a very real danger for a family with young children...or any age of child. Or adult. Some patients, men in particular, can become s*xually aggressive. They don't realize that its their daughter, DIL, or granddaughter that they're making advances on.

 

Then there's the more benign, but no less dangerous issues regarding issues such as stoves being turned on in the middle of the night and fires breaking out, tubs being started and flooding resulting in property damage, and Grandma wandering away in the middle of the night and either becoming ill or even dying from exposure.

 

Families that don't care for their elderly don't *always* make these choices out of cold calculation, not wishing to disrupt their own lives, etc. Many times its a heart breaking decision, but truly done out of trying to do the best thing for their loved ones, recognizing that they cannot ensure the safety of all involved.

 

Unless you know every detail of the situation, which you cannot possibly unless its YOUR family, please refrain from offering unasked for judgments and advice. You cannot possibly know the situation, and the reasons for the decisions made. You just can't. And often times, you're only causing more and more pain in your rush to judgment.

 

There's one thing I'd ask folks to truly keep in mind when discussing this sort of thing. "There but for the grace of God go I" Truly, until its your family that's facing this, you can *think* you know, swear you know what you'd do...but its such a multifaceted situation, you really, truly cannot.

 

 

 

THANK YOU, Impish!!!!!!!

 

 

My mother had Alzheimer's and lived with us for a year. I had planned to take care of her until the end. She became delusional that were were not feeding our 5 month old baby, and tried to "save" DD multiple times over a period of a few days by putting chunks of banana and cheese in the baby's mouth (the baby that was exclusively breastfed at that point). The baby could have choked to death. We had to have the baby in our sight every minute for weeks. I could not shower, go to the bathroom, or fold a load of laundry without making sure that my mother (who was an AWESOME mother before Alzheimer's) could not hurt the baby.

 

It was an impossible situation. We had to place my mother is a residence for people with dementia and she was actually much happier. There were always people around her 24 hours a day and she was able to wander in the secure environment and fidget as much as she wanted. There was always something to do and somebody to talk to. There were resident cats, birds, and a large aquarium with seating. She had a great time until she declined, fell and broke her hip, and passed. I miss her so much.

 

She had nursing home insurance that covered about $100/day for 4 years. Her SS covered most of the rest. She had Medicare we paid out of pocket for her prescriptions (often almost $900/mo) until the Medicare Part D thing started. She died shortly thereafter, so I'm not sure how she would have benefitted from that program.

 

My sisters and I anticipated that we would use her assets to cover her care until she ran out of money and needed to go on Medicaid. We would not have EVER considered hiding assets to qualify her for the type of care that Medicaid provided. She worked and saved during her life so that she could have decent care if she ever needed it - Medicaid is bare bones, not at all what I would want for my parent or anyone else, for that matter. Are your heirlooms worth your parent parked in a wheelchair in a hallway as people pass by, workers running from one crisis to the next because they are understaffed? Lying in bed in a soiled undergarment for hours? Medicaid facilities pay their workers the bare minimum; the best care providers work in for-profit residences where they can earn a living wage. You are trading quality of life for money when you try to hoard assets and get your elderly relative put on Medicaid. You are selling them out. That's why it is ILLEGAL.

[Barb_]

But they are taking the money to pay for her care! Why should taxpayers pay for someones nursing home care so that the kids can get the land dad worked his whole life?

 

I for one am happy to pay for her grandpa's care with my taxes so that their family land can remain intact. I'm sort of shocked that anyone would feel any differently. I can think of a lot worse things for my tax money to go to.

 

Barb

[Impish]

Here there is no difference btwn the care given on provincial or private care. Its all the same, except what is paid to the facility. Some facilities are better than others, absolutely, but it has absolutely nothing to do with if its provincially funded or not. All facilities have private and provincially funded residents. Some are simply better than others, period. And any like you describe being the experience with Medicaid would be investigated, heavily fined, if not simply shut down.

 

I honestly find it really hard to believe that the US would accept such living conditions in a long term care facility, simply because its paid for by Medicaid.

 

And lets take a look at the claims you're making.

 

Laying in soiled undergarments for hours. That happens in the best of facilities. Briefs are changed in morning rounds, before breakfast. They are then checked again 3-4 hrs later. The usual staffing complement is 3 nursing attendants per about 35 or so residents. Here anyways. So, 12 residents are changed before lunch, the rest after. Simply not enough manpower to always change them all before and after lunch, when you figure out that they require mechanical lifts, etc, and do not wish to have lunch in bed, but be out at the dining room. Far easier on the resident to wait til after lunch when they wish to have a nap. Going up and down in the mechanical lift is very stressful and can be quite upsetting to many residents. So the idea of folks sitting for hours in the same brief happens in every facility, period.

 

I worked in one of the best in my city, owned and run by the Big Boys that Be. And we were chronically short staffed, running around like crazy. Why? Because front line health care workers aren't paid what we're worth, period. Factory work pays more. Most jobs pay more, with guaranteed weekends and holidays off. Heck, if I'd opted to work at the same facility as a clerk (which I had the skills to do!) not only would I not have a lifetime disability now, but I would have been making half again my hourly wage, with holidays and weekends off! I kid you not!

 

But no, I opted for working with residents. I preferred to work all over the facility, including the locked ward, where on any given day I could be (and have been) spit on, groped, pinched, kicked, bit, licked, insulted, yelled at...why? Cause I'm a PEOPLE PERSON. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[NorthwestMom]

Here there is no difference btwn the care given on provincial or private care. Its all the same, except what is paid to the facility. Some facilities are better than others, absolutely, but it has absolutely nothing to do with if its provincially funded or not. All facilities have private and provincially funded residents. Some are simply better than others, period. And any like you describe being the experience with Medicaid would be investigated, heavily fined, if not simply shut down.

 

I honestly find it really hard to believe that the US would accept such living conditions in a long term care facility, simply because its paid for by Medicaid.

 

 

 

 

America and Canada have very different healthcare and eldercare systems. I assure you I am not exaggerating.

[lionfamily1999]

So now, I'm up to $.04!

-Robin

And a very worthy four cents it is.

 

 

 

 

 

There are certain things that most people don't mind their money going to and caring for those members of our society that are unable to care for themselves is, normally, one of them. Allowing an entire family to hit rock bottom to pay for the care of an elderly relative is incredible to me. I could not do that, I find it immoral and unethical. The fact that elderly care costs can reach so high, imo, is immoral and unethical. A person giving away their possessions, so their families can continue on, that is, imo, common sense.

 

Again, the fact that our elders would be better cared for if they were criminals is utterly disgusting.

[Impish]

And a very worthy four cents it is.

 

 

 

 

 

There are certain things that most people don't mind their money going to and caring for those members of our society that are unable to care for themselves is, normally, one of them. Allowing an entire family to hit rock bottom to pay for the care of an elderly relative is incredible to me. I could not do that, I find it immoral and unethical. The fact that elderly care costs can reach so high, imo, is immoral and unethical. A person giving away their possessions, so their families can continue on, that is, imo, common sense.

 

Again, the fact that our elders would be better cared for if they were criminals is utterly disgusting.

:iagree:

[Penelope]

Here's the thing. Not all families can. Witness my own ironic situation, now disabled because of having worked in a LTC.

 

There's a myriad of reasons why a family cannot care for Grandma. Take, for example, Grandma with Alzheimer's, and a family with young children. Many people think patients with Alzheimer's just get forgetful, but unfortunately, that's not true. As mentioned previously in this thread, they can also be quite aggressive, even physically violent. This can present a very real danger for a family with young children...or any age of child. Or adult. Some patients, men in particular, can become s*xually aggressive. They don't realize that its their daughter, DIL, or granddaughter that they're making advances on.

 

Then there's the more benign, but no less dangerous issues regarding issues such as stoves being turned on in the middle of the night and fires breaking out, tubs being started and flooding resulting in property damage, and Grandma wandering away in the middle of the night and either becoming ill or even dying from exposure.

 

Families that don't care for their elderly don't *always* make these choices out of cold calculation, not wishing to disrupt their own lives, etc. Many times its a heart breaking decision, but truly done out of trying to do the best thing for their loved ones, recognizing that they cannot ensure the safety of all involved.

 

Unless you know every detail of the situation, which you cannot possibly unless its YOUR family, please refrain from offering unasked for judgments and advice. You cannot possibly know the situation, and the reasons for the decisions made. You just can't. And often times, you're only causing more and more pain in your rush to judgment.

 

There's one thing I'd ask folks to truly keep in mind when discussing this sort of thing. "There but for the grace of God go I" Truly, until its your family that's facing this, you can *think* you know, swear you know what you'd do...but its such a multifaceted situation, you really, truly cannot.

 

Believe me when I say I do understand these things and have seen them with family, friends, acquaintances.

 

My statement was not a judgement of anyone who needs to put her relative in a home. There certainly are situations where a family member cannot care for the relative.

 

But I was responding to a post that said we as a country should care for these people. It was in the context of folks saying it is okay to hide or transfer assets to make the taxpayer foot the whole bill. And I posted to disagree. So you took me out of context.

 

My point was not that the relative should be living with family in every case; not at all. My point was that it is the responsibility of the individual and/or the family, to provide the care or to arrange and pay for the care themselves if there were any assets of the individual available to do so. The taxpayer should be the default only when there are no other resources available.

[Mommyof4ks]

Ok, I've worked in nursing homes/Long Term Care facilities. Let me explain to you what that $5,000 a month gets you.

 

One bath a week.

3 meals a day...if you like whats being served. Your other option is a sandwich.

A room, shared. A dresser. A closet. A bathroom.

If you're unable to manage your own tolieting, you'll have your needs tended to approx 8x a day. And that's in a good facility. I've known others that you get changed maybe 5.

Meds given out. You're not allowed to have ANY of your own.

No privacy at all.

Constant supervision, checking in...why, its like being a child again, only you have no hope of escape!

 

That's what your $5,000 a month gets you. And if you're really lucky, you get a staff member like me, who treats you like a human being, talks to you about your late spouse, your children, grand children, your growing up, sibs, parents, grandparents, laughs at your funny stories, cries at the anniversary of your husband's death, weeps with you at the anniversary that your son died in a place whose name you can't even pronounce, who cares. You'll look forward to the shifts when me or someone like me is there. You'll tolerate, even dread the shifts where the others are there, the ones that view you with contempt, contempt for your failing body, your wrinkled skin, your shaky limbs and foggy memory, who are impatient with your hesitating movements and roughly pull your clothes off you and leave you standing there, stripped not only of your clothes, but your dignity and humanity as well, and as they pass the rough face cloth over you, you close your eyes and remember another time where you stood naked, and your husband's eyes looked at you with love, instead of the contempt in this young woman's eyes in front of you as she manhandles you into a hospital gown, guides you into bed, and shuts off your light. You lay there, staring at the ceiling, wishing that you were with your husband, knowing that each day will be a repeat of today, being treated and guided like a child, shoved into bed at barely 7 pm, no rights, no dignity, no options.

 

And paying $5,000 for the priviledge.

 

And lets rip away the heritage of the family as well now too, shall we, by demanding that land thats been in the family for generations be sold to support this sort of care. Its insanity that its $5000. Complete, total, and utter. Its ONLY $5000 when its privately paid, that's the thing. The price drops dramatically when its paid for by anyone BUT the private individual. I know that for a fact here. Its double or triple the cost here if someone's paying out of pocket vs if its paid for by the province. Its flat out robbery.

 

AMEN! My grandmother worked in nursing homes and visited my great-grandmother nearly daily for years. The care was bad unless the nurse or aide was nice, and the food was worse than school food. The cost was crazy even 20 years ago, and there was not 'negotiated' rate for private payment, but ins. would pay only a small fraction of the total cost. Robbery!

[Mommyof4ks]

I have a solution!

 

Instead of giving their things to their kids to 'rob' the government......

 

They should all rob banks. Get locked up in prison, hey, they'll even be treated like grown-ups! Free meals, bed, tv, medical care, lots of exercise and entertainment, and no one complaining that they're robbing the system.

 

Sigh. I'm going to call my gramma and give her the good news :) What a relief.

 

Sounds like a plan ;)

[Impish]

Believe me when I say I do understand these things and have seen them with family, friends, acquaintances.

 

My statement was not a judgement of anyone who needs to put her relative in a home. There certainly are situations where a family member cannot care for the relative.

 

But I was responding to a post that said we as a country should care for these people. It was in the context of folks saying it is okay to hide or transfer assets to make the taxpayer foot the whole bill. And I posted to disagree. So you took me out of context.

 

My point was not that the relative should be living with family in every case; not at all. My point was that it is the responsibility of the individual and/or the family, to provide the care or to arrange and pay for the care themselves if there were any assets of the individual available to do so. The taxpayer should be the default only when there are no other resources available.

Ummm...you were responding to someone whose family member was already deceased, who was speaking in a 'what if' term. Your initial response was actually a misunderstanding, so I wasn't taking you out of context, but rather using it as a jumping point, since it was a misunderstanding :001_smile:

[Penelope]

I wasn't aware that paying into social security was ever billed as "you will be fully taken care of when you are old, including nursing home."

 

I thought social security was always intended to be supplemental. There were surely always people who had nothing else, but it wasn't ever intended to be sole support.

 

Medicare was also not supposed to be all encompassing, and neither SS nor Medicare was ever promised to cover long-term care.

[Mommyof4ks]

Impish-:grouphug: Your story is indeed an ironic one.

 

I think we have two issues that are being danced around here:

 

1) Those of us who do "pay into the system" (social security, medicare, etc...) DO have a sense of entitlement, and rightfully so. If the government is going to take our money with the promise of caring for us in our golden years, why shouldn't we feel that we are owed that money back? Ah, but it's not enough to sustain us, and many of us (myself included) are pretty darned certain that we will NEVER, EVER see a penny of that money once it leaves our paychecks. Still, rather than letting us keep that money, and invest it as well as we can, the government continues to take, take, take. I mean, how on earth could people possibly know how to invest their own money? Don't they realize that they NEED Big Brother to steal it from them, and mismanage it for them?

 

I have always thought that the best solution to this problem would be to take the SS funds, and invest them in an account which will be used as a pension fund *for the elderly relatives of an individual.* So money that comes from dh's paycheck goes to an account which can only be accessed by his parents. And my paychecks would have money deducted and used by my parents. I know I would stop grumbling TODAY about the amount withdrawn for SS if I knew it was being deposited into my parents' checking account.

 

2) We have, through the miracle of modern medicine, managed to extend life quite unnaturally. Machines and medications are available which keep the body going- if only just barely- when the mind is gone. We have clung to the idea that Quantity is better than Quality. If we can buy (literally) another year of life for our parent or grandparent, we feel that we must, even though that person may not even know they are in this world, and may even be wishing to leave it. At what point do we let a body fail because that is what is best? It is a slippery slope, and a frightening discussion for many, because we don't want to be the one who takes away grandma's last few weeks or months, if she is indeed capable of *living.* Nor do we want someone to step in and tell us that our time is up, if we are still happy, competent, and productive (even if we have slowed down) in our last years. In any case, this is a decision that the government should NEVER be allowed to make, and that is why I am so wary of the government taking over health care.

 

So now, I'm up to $.04!

-Robin

 

Very well said! I too am nervous about the government taking over health care, but that is another thread I suppose :D

[Impish]

Very well said! I too am nervous about the government taking over health care, but that is another thread I suppose :D

I'm finding this very interesting, because the horror story being offered as a sample of a 'Medicaid' nursing home is nothing that would be tolerated here in Canada, where we do have national health care. I don't want to get into the whole health care schmozzle debate, cause it never really goes anywhere :tongue_smilie:but I do find it interesting, because of my experiences as a professional in the Canadian system.

[Penelope]

Ummm...you were responding to someone whose family member was already deceased, who was speaking in a 'what if' term. Your initial response was actually a misunderstanding, so I wasn't taking you out of context, but rather using it as a jumping point, since it was a misunderstanding :001_smile:

 

Nope. LOL. I was clear on the fact that the situation was hypothetical. No misunderstanding; I was responding to the situation proposed, but more generally to my disagreement with that particular poster's views, which I had quoted. You wrote in response that I shouldn't judge the situation of any particular family. I wasn't.

 

ANYway, no hard feelings, carry on. I think I'm done here. I enjoyed your posts about what nursing homes are really like. :) Well, enjoyed isn't really the word, appreciated is better.

[momo9]

That's really interesting....I didn't know that.

 

Maybe this sounds pre-mature but I've been to a few nursing homes. I don't think I would put my mother or my MIL in one. I'd rather just keep them at home and hire extra help to pull up the slack.

 

Of course, I say that now, I can't predict what kind of care they'd need but I hope and pray it's something we would be able to deal with at home.

[Impish]

Nope. LOL. I was clear on the fact that the situation was hypothetical. No misunderstanding; I was responding to the situation proposed, but more generally to my disagreement with that particular poster's views, which I had quoted. You wrote in response that I shouldn't judge the situation of any particular family. I wasn't.

 

ANYway, no hard feelings, carry on. I think I'm done here. I enjoyed your posts about what nursing homes are really like. :) Well, enjoyed isn't really the word, appreciated is better.

*I* should have been more clear. It wasn't you in particular, but a general *you*. Too many times I've seen ppl say, "I would NEVER!" etc. I truly wish that nobody would say that, since until you're actually there...you can't honestly know. You just truly can't.

 

No hard feelings here either :001_smile:

[Vida Winter]

A question.

 

Is there such a thing in the US as a "medicaid-only nursing home"? I always thought that (at least most) nursing homes had a mix of private pay and medicaid patients. To be honest, if it were a medicaid-only home I would expect it to be of the poorest quality.

 

As I mentioned before, my brief encounter with nursing homes with my dad was only for a year, and paid for between insurance and the family. That brief encounter threatened to bankrupt my mother and the rest of us, subsequently, when we hired home-health nurses to work about 50 hours per week to care for my father when we were all working full time (this was before we had kids), for the next four years.

 

It was a sacrifice I would be willing to make again without hesitation, but I'd rather avoid using the nursing home if at all possible. Back when all this was happening (18 yrs ago), long term care insurance was difficult, sometimes impossible to obtain. My father had a serious, paralyzing stroke at a fairly young age, and needed constant care for 5 years.

[Melissa in Australia]

But they are taking the money to pay for her care! Why should taxpayers pay for someones nursing home care so that the kids can get the land dad worked his whole life?

shorly he paid enough tax through his whole working life

[Renee in NC]

A question.

 

Is there such a thing in the US as a "medicaid-only nursing home"? I always thought that (at least most) nursing homes had a mix of private pay and medicaid patients. To be honest, if it were a medicaid-only home I would expect it to be of the poorest quality.

 

As I mentioned before, my brief encounter with nursing homes with my dad was only for a year, and paid for between insurance and the family. That brief encounter threatened to bankrupt my mother and the rest of us, subsequently, when we hired home-health nurses to work about 50 hours per week to care for my father when we were all working full time (this was before we had kids), for the next four years.

 

It was a sacrifice I would be willing to make again without hesitation, but I'd rather avoid using the nursing home if at all possible. Back when all this was happening (18 yrs ago), long term care insurance was difficult, sometimes impossible to obtain. My father had a serious, paralyzing stroke at a fairly young age, and needed constant care for 5 years.

 

My grandfather's nursing home had separate "wings" for private pay and Medicaid patients. The private pay wing had private rooms, carpet, more nursing assistants, etc. The Medicaid wing had 2 people per room, no carpet, and it was seriously understaffed. My grandfather needed round the clock care because of his dementia, and was in a nursing home for 10 years. In his case, he had retired from 2 jobs (so had 2 pensions) and his SS that paid for his care ($5K per month.) My grandmother had SS. Before he went in the home, they sold their house and land that they had lived on for 25+ years, bought a much smaller house with no land, and put the rest in the bank. The interest on that money contributed to my grandmother's budget as well.

 

She is buying into a retirement community because many of her long-time friends are there (it is associated with her denomination.) She will sell her house to buy in (about equal.) Then she will pay $3K per month (about what the one pension she has left from my grandfather the SS she is receiving now.) This community promises to care for you even if you run out of money.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

By Drama Queen My grandfather's nursing home had separate "wings" for private pay and Medicaid patients. The private pay wing had private rooms, carpet, more nursing assistants, etc. The Medicaid wing had 2 people per room, no carpet, and it was seriously understaffed.

 

I am surprised to hear this was your experience. As an RN who has been exposed to many nursing homes in PA, I have never encountered such a set up. Medicaid and self-pay are mixed in the same units with same staffing levels. The are usually only a few private rooms available at extra cost although I did see one facility that had all private rooms for all of their medicaid residents with deluxe amenities to boot:) From my understanding the over-whelming majority of nursing home residents are on medicaid due to the astronomical costs:)

 

IMHO I think that all health care facilities and health care providers should have to accept medicare and medicaid. Emergency rooms must take all patients regardless of whether they have insurance or not so I think it is imperative that all facilities and providers take medicare and medicaid.:)

 

 

Just my 2 cents:)

[Renee in NC]

I am surprised to hear this was your experience. As an RN who has been exposed to many nursing homes in PA, I have never encountered such a set up. Medicaid and self-pay are mixed in the same units with same staffing levels. The are usually only a few private rooms available at extra cost although I did see one facility that had all private rooms for all of their medicaid residents with deluxe amenities to boot:) From my understanding the over-whelming majority of nursing home residents are on medicaid due to the astronomical costs:)

 

IMHO I think that all health care facilities and health care providers should have to accept medicare and medicaid. Emergency rooms must take all patients regardless of whether they have insurance or not so I think it is imperative that all facilities and providers take medicare and medicaid.:)

 

 

Just my 2 cents:)

 

Medicaid doesn't reimburse as much as people pay privately, does it?

 

This was just one nursing home. I have no idea how others are set up, but this was one of the nicer ones I had been in. Even with paying $5K per month, my grandmother did his laundry (to keep his clothes from disappearing) and fed his meals to him once it was required.

[MelanieM]

I live in Canada, and have great appreciation for our health care system. I also believe it is preferable for society to put the health of its global citizens as a priority, which includes support for the elderly if they require it.

 

However, I completely disagree that an individual should hide assets in order to get 'free' care. (Which of course, is not at all free.) I agree with the poster(s) that said this type of attitude contribute to the problem a great deal. If my neighbour decides to sell his house and give the money to his kids so that the government will pay for his care, that's less government funding to help out the people who truly have no financial assets to draw on at all.

 

Why would caring for the elderly be a combined social responsibility first, and a family responsibility second? In other words, why should I take the money from my MIL's house to use for my family benefit and allow the general government pool to pay for her care? Shouldn't her assets be the first monies to provide for her?

 

As for the argument that it costs $5k a month and that's a rip-off... Ok, let's say it costs $1k a month, or whatever you (anyone making this argument) feel is appropriate. Is it right for the individual to fund their own care then? Or does the same opinion stand? Because if it's not really about the cost of the care (i.e. you wouldn't support it even if it cost less) then the point has no bearing on the discussion at hand. (Yes, it is an issue within the system, but I'm trying to determine how much weight it actually holds to the argument being put forward by some people.)

 

Moving aside all of the emotional debate around this subject (of which there is much, for good reason), I think it comes down to a very basic premise: Someone needs a service, and is in a position to pay for it themselves or have the collective population pay for it on their behalf. Is it acceptable to avoid any personal accountability and expect the collective to step forward to pay, for whatever reason? My personal opinion is no, that isn't appropriate. And saying 'yeah, well the system is screwed so let's screw the system!' doesn't change that, in my mind.

[bkpan]

First off, My dh's dad is dead. As is his grandfather. And I am pretty certain I didn't ask for your advice on the care of my loved ones.

 

No, I do not think I should pass on the care for my loved ones while I get all of their money. If you knew my family and what little my parents have, you would realize how stupid that comment was.

 

What I believe is that people who work hard and pay taxes all their lives have the right to pass down their valuables and family heirlooms - be that land, personal property, etc. before anyone comes in and takes it all from them. The cost of a nursing home is outrageous - and to pay that kind of cost PLUS lose everything you have is just horrific. My mom has residents who are depressed and actually on suicide watch because their home and every penny they have was taken to pay the outrageous and unnecessary cost!

 

The system is more than flawed - though the word I am thinking of also begins with F :blink:

 

I am sorry - I thought you mentioned your dads father. I had your posts confused with someone elses.

 

I do not think that my comment was stupid. If you reread your posts, you will find that that is exactly what you are saying. :confused:

[Tree House Academy]

I am sorry - I thought you mentioned your dads father. I had your posts confused with someone elses.

 

I do not think that my comment was stupid. If you reread your posts, you will find that that is exactly what you are saying. :confused:

 

I stand behind what I said. I think that this country, as a whole, should be willing to care for our elderly and not try to take all they have at the end of their lives. My tax money will pay for whoever's mom or dad needs it, and yours should do the same. I just think it is a sad, sick shame that people who live their entire lives working hard for what they have should have it taken away in the end.

 

Any you know, you all talk about the "kids getting the money or the land" like it is some selfish thing. For my dh, it was all about keeping the land in the family as his grandpa before him had wanted. It was his wish - and all along, he worked this land so that his kids and grandkids and greatgrandkids would have something to pass through the generations. He didn't even intend for it to be sold for his care. I think he would have committed suicide before he allowed his land to be sold off for nursing home care.

 

Last night, I discussed this thread with my mom who works in a nursing home and sees, firsthand, what theese people go through. What about the Wives??? You are so worried about the kids being greedy - what about the women and men who have to carry on while their loved ones are in the facility? One woman has had her house taken - it now belongs to the home. She can live there until she dies, but what she paid for once has now been taken from her to pay for her husband's care. She is 87 years old. She doesn't have the option of "keeping him at home." They have no children.

 

I don't understand your mentality at all. Don't you see what a disgrace this is? Can't you see how greedy these places are - taking every last penny and charging prices that are what you would pay monthly for a half million dollar HOME and these people are forced to pay it for 1/2 a ROOM. And medical care in these places is a JOKE. When there is a real issue, the person is sent out to a hospital. Nursing homes do exactly what Impish said - take you to the bathroom a few times a day, have someone feed you (BTW, the person who feeds you and takes you to the bathroom likely makes about $10 a hour too! Not a place to get rich - and the employees sure don't see that money!!!) 3 meals, and you have a semi-private bed to sleep in.

 

I think I am finished discussing this with you. I sincerely hope that you never have to find out the reason for my sentiments by seeing someone you love taken to the cleaners in order to pay for half-assed piss pour "medical" care because no other option is available to you.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Tree House Academy