my strategies: cracking down on food waste and eating when we aren't really hungry (kids are especially guilty) Aldi is my friend! It really is cheaper Double and even triple coupons can make things even cheaper than Aldi prices Sale papers are your friends! Have a big yard sale and be ruthless! (make everyone get rid of things!)

Oh, no, it would have to be Eddie Murphy's "Boogie in Your Butt"! :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNWEeLz125Q

Melatonin is commonly used for kids with ADHD, medicated or not. Apparently it's often the ADHD that causes the sleep problems. My ds was like that both off and on and now off meds again. A good resource for topics like this is either this website or magazine: http://www.additudemag.com

cracking up here! how is it that I am the first one to post this one??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaZim6ybvdA

Our youth group does not have many teens. Once they hit high school, they are too busy with homework, dating and eventually driving to attend any more. There isn't much unity amongst the kids. I am not one to have a problem with youth groups per se...in fact, I would like for my oldest ds especially to have more Christian friends and activities! But, my second oldest very much "on fire for God" dd says that is just the problem...most of the kids don't seem to truly be *Christians*, although they are considered such since they attend church (some only a couple times per year) and come from "good homes". What bugs my dd is that they also act all snooty and/or competitive, are way over the top when it comes to early dating, lap sitting and smooching, etc. and don't seem to ahve much, if any interest in spiritual matters. That's not everyone of course. I just feel sad and scared sometimes when I think about what is means to be a "Christian teen." :confused:

Wow, this thread is about to get lost quickly! Anyone have any thoughts???

I don't know how I just stumbled upons this thread again! I didn't even remember that I'd posted in it! Did anyone read what I wrote? Has anyone had a similar disappointing, even terrifying experience with sending a dc to PS after being gung ho homeschool for years and years???

http://www.crosswalk.com/spirituallife/11579336/

Joanne, I understand. Most things I used to judge others for I have now experienced personally to some degree. We have had CPS scares but no actual visits. We are a good family that hsn't done anything truly wrong. But I have a dh with bipolar and a teen ds with ADHD and possible bipolar as well, and no one really understands how that can cause problems sometimes. Also, once my kids went missing for a while and we thought calling the police would be best, but instead they told our kids it wasn't their fault (for going off too far without permission) and they told us in front of them if they ever heard our name again they'd call CPS and have our kids permanently removed from our home. Talk about months of crying and fear for no good reason. I'm also not the greatest housekeeper and my younger two stay dirty, it seems, because they play outside a lot. But I KNOW we do not deserve to have our kids taken away, or even need an investigation.

:001_huh: However, as a parent who loves books and has only one of 4 dc who loves them also, I :iagree:with this article to some extent. I hate to admit it, but I do.

My guess is that the mom must be terribly lonely and perhaps not confident in being a parent. The world's message is that dc need to separate from us as soon as possible to be "socialized." I always get annoyed when I know someone is totally sold on an idea that I am not, especially when it seems to obvious that they are wrong! But there really are people out there that don't even know the same stuff we know about child development, learning, etc. And they aren't looking for it, either. I worked in daycare for nine months when my then Navy dh was in a school. I needed some sort of job and I like dc a lot. I didn't have my own then. It was HORRIFYING. This was supposedly a "good" daycare which was called a "preschool" so people would think the kids learned a lot there. The main thing they learned was that other kids BITE you and that the workers might hit, bite, or pinch you when they thought no one was looking--the often otherwise kindly but very uneducated workers thought this was appropriate discipline! The director was a piece of work who limited the kids' lunch food and snacks so she'd make more $$, and she pressured parents not to take them out for vacation, sick days, etc. for her own $$ gain...she also forced us to work sick if she could. SHe tried to convince me that I had to work at least half a day with a 104 temp! My dh had been sure up till then that our kids would go to daycare one day so I could be a teacher. He changed his mind after that job experience of mine!

I still get that annoyed and out of it feeling I got when I was in middle and high school and these expensive "popular people" trends got going. Vera Bradley disgusts me as well. What I wonder is how/wny so many teens have this designer stuff? Who pays for it?

I seem to recall a few have posted about this subject. How did you find out? What made you pursue the dignosis? I am scared my teen has it, but for some reason I can't quite understand, I am reluctant to start the process. Part of the problem is he is very resistant to counseling, etc.

do you feel good about it even if your dc is behind a grade level or is not in the gifted/honors, etc. classes? I sincerely ask this because it is a touchy subject where I live, but there is a chance my dc are going to wind up in PS sooner or later, for several reasons. I have a ds in ninth grade PS. He has been in since 7th. I was mostly unhappy with his middle school experience, and he had a tough row to hoe there. He has ADHD, for one. PS brought this fact out. I suspected it when he was little and in PS kindergarten and first grade, but he did so well in first that I decided ADHD was a made up disorder and I read all the books supporting that theory. He spent the next 4 years hsing and alwyas miserable socially, because of limited friend opportunitites in HS and PS kids always treated him terrible (kids are cruel and ADHD kids often have social problems due to lack of awareness, etc.) In middle school, teachers frequently told the kids in his class that they were the "bad" ones and compared them to their "AG" (gifted) kids, who they would hold up as examples of pristine behavior and academic genius. An example of this type of kid would be the snotty boy who read two grade levels ahead in kindergarten and openly made fun of ds for his struggles with handwriting, coloring, and phonics. Those kids became the stuck up "popular" crowd by middle school, and enjoyed lauding it over the populace. I had more than one casual acquaintance say something along the lines of, "Well, I absolutely wouldn't have it any other way than having my dc in AG" and one even said a teacher told her "you absolutely want your kid in AG because those are the only kids you want your kid around, the ones who come from good families and make good grades." From what I have seen over the years, there is a lot of truth in that exclusive sounding attitude. i wish like anything my ds had been in AG, and onto honors classes in high school. Those are the kids from 2 parent homes, who attend church, who don't get in much trouble, who play sports rather than hang out smoking p*t on the weekends, etc. But how does anyone ensure their child's "giftedness" according to PS?? :confused: Is is possible for a thinking mom such as myself, one who reads, one who considers herself intelligent and has a degree in education to just accept her dc might not be in the "good" kid classes and be surrounded by troublemakers and potential dropouts if they go to PS? There just don't seem to be kids with parents like that in my ds' classes. I don't mean this to sound elitist or anything. I thought PS would be more diverse. But it's not. There seems to be a small group of kids that do well and are well-liked, and then all the rest, who come from "bad" homes and make bad grades. They also get into all the trouble--skipping, smoking, drug use, etc. I am just getting acquainted with how the SPED dept. works, as my ds qualifies for an IEP now. I am not sure...but it seems that there is little hope held out for those kids. The school system seems "behind" others in how they handle ADHD, LDs, etc. They tend to retain those kids rather than really do anything to help them, despite the research against retention. So often the teachers 9even of the AG classes) seem to know less about education and other areas than the typical WTM homeschooling mom. How can a mom who knows stuff, questions the system, etc. ever be content with having dc in the system??? Are there moms like that out there?? I feel overwhelmed with HSing right now. My dh isnt supportive. He has bipolar, which affects us all. My HS friends can't relate. I don't really have PS friends. Everyone in our church has high achieving kids in the AG and honors classes. Many are teachers themselves and/or prominent in the community. I feel like I am alone, utterly alone. Drowing in HS, not wanting to lose my kids' hearts and interest in learning in PS. Charter or private is not an option. My ds has dabbled with the bad stuff and has wasted his time in PS. He is less interested in reading, chess, music, and talking to adults. He now acts rude and hateful and has low expectations for himself--on bad days. Other days I think there is hope; he is finally getting a clue and acting more like the sunny, interesting little boy he used to be. SOme have advised me he probably would have done better had he not had to adjust. He thinks himself he might have done better had he always been in PS. That's where dh is coming from when he suggests we just put our youngest in K and never take her out. Then I shudder....because ds was smart and fun till he went to K, too, which was not fun for him and sucked all the creativity and niceness out of his little brain. But part of me holds out hope...what if she did great and turned out to be one of those achievers?? Please share your thoughts!

I just read this article and was stunned. ALso, many moms posted comments on another message board about it and equated following the Pearls with outright child abuse. I don't follow the Pearls. I don't hate them or think they are evil abuse advocates, either. I think they would be sickened to hear of these abuse cases. I wonder how the slander is going to affect their ministry and their lives. I hope this isn't too big a can of worms??? http://www.charlotte.com/breaking_news/story/692245.html

(((Melinda))), Hugs to you,and prayers. We are in a similar boat here. Only my oldest is in PS (rising 10th grader) and my next oldest is a rising 9th grader, and a girl. Dh wants her to get into the magnet school. Don't know what he wants if she doesn't. He also wants our younger 2 in school (or so he says 50% of the time) so they "get used to it" and don't have to adjust at some later time like our oldest did. I am unsure anymore if I even want to homeschool anymore. I get little support and my kids are not motivated. But, like you, I have seen and heard enough about PS to make me have very cold feet. Even if my kids were in the "good kids" crowd and making good grades, i still feel like I wouldn't be able to relate to them. I just don't like most of what I see coming from PS kids. Adults shock me, too, including teachers. It is scary considering what kind of people hold my kids' future in their hands.

Ouch, I feel the pain in this post. I almost could have posted it myself. My own ds has changed so much from PS. And it's so true about the MEAN popular people. Sadly, they are often the ones liked most by the teachers as well as the students, as they tend to be the "gifted", "honors", etc. kids. I can't wrap my mind around it. :confused:

We began medicating my ds last summer, right before he started ninth grade. My only concern is, he has a hard time accepting it now--both the ADHD itself and the medicating for it (he says it is the med, rathern than him, doing the work or the good behavior, and that hurts his pride) It definitely helps him to take something. Side effects have been rough, but not as bad with Focalin XR as they were with Concerta (horrible) and Vyvanse (we might have gone up to high a dose). He once told me he probably would have accepted it better had we chosen to medicate when he was younger. He is very sociable but was never liked well by other kids, and that makes him sad and angry. He blames it on homeschooling, and is in PS now, where he has a diverse bunch of friends, but still gests picked on and the kids who are his friends aren't the type most parents would feel comfortable with.

a few thoughts...just my two cents... could be a maturity thing maybe ADHD possibly auditory processing disorder maybe they just aren't good in groups--some people aren't, even as adults I used to beat myself up over my oldest ds. He is now in PS again. He got all the "doesn't listen" and "doesnt' follow instructions/the group" complaints in kindergarten and first grade. It didn't get better or worse when I homeschooled him, except that other adults got to know him on a more one on one basis, which improved his relationships with adults. Otherwise, his relationships would be somewhat negative, as the kid who "didn't listen", etc. We finally realized it was seriously hurting him in PS middle school so we did a lot of reading and praying and finally found out from his dr that he has ADHD. I also suspect APD but don't have a dx of that. My youngest acts just like him, only worse! My middle two don't act like that, and do well in groups. So it can't be the fact that we homeschool!

I emphasized the hill part... Dh is having major fits about our oldest's hair, which is shaggy and too long in the bangs...except for the bangs, I kind of like the rest of his hair...he hates to have people make fun of his ears! I just want dh to drop it...but he won't. Thus ds acts balky about it. Ugh!

All I can do is share my story, and let you weigh the pros and cons that you can think pertain to your ds. Mine was going into 7th and had dreamed of football for years. He had tried baseball, basketball, and soccer. Of all these, I guess he was ok at soccer but not what you'd call athletic. He has ADHD (we were in denial back then), which made him appear "clueless" sometimes out there on the playing fields. It was painful to watch most of the time. Dh, a football star in high school and sort of "typical male" about things like sports, was really disappointed in ds and often ds was aware of this sad fact. So ds came to the conclusion that he had to try football, the only team sport he hadn't tried. He thought he might even want to go to PS high school and play. He couldn't get the dream out of his head. We decided (reluctantly) to let him try Pop Warner. We all got an education in what youth sports can be like when they aren't what you're used to, which in our case was church leagues at our own friendly church. Suddenly we were all thrown into a crowd of PS parents and kids and it was very, very different, even though we had always done stuff with PS families before...something about Pop Warner is different. I cant' quite explain it without "dissing" people who might like it. Overally, we didnt' like it, but ds did--sort of. He endured pain and humiliation every night of the week for 2 hrs. The coaches didn't particularly seem to like or admire him. They were afraid he would get hurt. He got minimal playing time in the games, which I suppose was fair, because the majority of the kids had played since they were 7 or 8, and were totally good. They knew all these plays and they knew how to hit and take a hit. The coolest thing was ds did gain a certain level of respect from his teammates--most of them, anyway. It's rather ironic that ds, who is white, was treated better and given more slaps on the back by his African American teammates than by his fellow white ones. Some of the nice kids are still his friends 3 yrs later. But there were a few kids who hated him, cussed him for messing up, made fun of him, and generally not encouraged. There was this one kid who I referred to as the "prima donna." He was pretty good and very full of himself. He was one of the more well to do kids on the team (but not wealthy by any means....more like "from a two income home) He was one of the stars and also an academic "all star" who had been to some banquet for having a high GPA and being a football standout. He had this whine and this attitude...ds' shining moment in football was finally tackling this kid and astonishing everyone. He got soooo much respect from his teammates and even the adults. The "star" actually told ds it wasn't a good tackle and then went around telling the story at PS about how ds thought he tackled him but really didn't. This story got told numerous times that ds heard of! I really, really liked how ds got to know all kinds of kids. But some of them really bugged us with their bad behavior. The coaches cussed, smoked and even drank (at the championship games--they made it all the way to Superbowl and had to stay in hotels). i was not comfortable with most of the adults, although there were some who were very nice and seemed like decent people. The experience led to ds wanting to go to PS that same year (he started football before school started). Dh was all for ds being "normal" so he pushed for him to do it. Our years since have been rocky...ds no longer plays sports. He might try tennis or swim team next year. He still is the kid who gets mocked sometimes. He is swimming this summer again. He recently played some basketball with a couple of the old PW guys...and had fun, just hanging out. He invited several of those guys to our youth group pool party the year he played football. It was a great experience to see how "unsocialized homeschooler' got along so well with a diverse bunch of boys. It really helped me see what a great guy my ds is and how there are all kinds of people out there who can be really fun and nice and loyal (I already hoped this and new it to some degree, of course...but it was a little scary at first, and probably was for ds, too. He never got seriously hurt, but was worn out every night and covered in huge brusises. Sometimes some of the snotty kids would hurt him on purpose. It affected his grades in his first year back in PS...he was too tired and busy with football to put the necessary effort into homework every night. I regret the loss of my ds' innocence from school, and PW was sort of a gateway to that, but I guess he probably would have gone to PS eventually anyway, and it hasn't been the greatest experience, but I am starting to see his better character traits shine thru again. That's our story..there's more I'm sure, but it is the middle of the night and I am not thinking very clearly as I type. HTH!

like to watch my eldest ds play games on this one: http://cut-the-knot.org

I fnd it interesting that our newspaper and my AT&T homepage chose not to include the homeschooled information. I respect them for NOT including it. I don't think they are "typical homeschoolers", if they can be called homeschoolers at all. :rolleyes:

well, let's see.... I am overweight My house is a mess most days I am chronically disorganized and so are my dc (so is dh) My dc aren't "accerlerated" in anything and my PS child doesn't make honor roll My dh is sick of all of it and wants to put the dc in school, thinking that will solve all our problems. Nope...you aren't the worst! :crying:

I so understand what you are saying! My dd is homeschooled, almost 14, and very, very nice to others. She will talk to anyone and include everyone. (she has gotten a 'tude towards me lately, but that's a different story). Very few people are mean to her that I know of...but I've noticed that the "super popular" (I know who they are because my son is in PS) do not talk to her--ever. And it bugs me...because "popular" is never synonomous with "nice"! Then take my PSed son, who was nicer and more inclusive of others when he was homeschooled....but others treated him like cr*p and often still do. PS has beena huge ugly learning experience for him of how mean other kids can be, how much they can disrupt your learning, and how teachers prefer the "popular" kids because they are usually the honors kids, which means they are more "respectable" and "From good families." I had a school counselor tell me that my ds had issues simply because he'd been homeschooled--"homeschooled kids tend not to have good social skills" was what she said. Well, she's never met my dd...or my very friendly 9yo, or my talkative 4yo...but then, ds was more sociable and fun to be around when he *wasn't* in PS, which none of my other kids are in and don't want to be in. My oldest has issues more related to ADHD than to PS...issues that are with him wherever he goes...and, in some ways, are exacerbated by PS. As my dd's high school years are about to begin, I am getting more unsolicited advice...from my mom, from MIL, from others who barely know us. Really, even my mom and MIL barely know our kids...we see them maybe once a year??? But it's all about "sinking or swimming" and how ds' problems in PS "prove" that our others "need to" go to PS to avoid such issues...and because oldest dd is so good, they think she needs to go even more... UGHHHH..........