Welcome! My DS sounds similar to yours. We started homeschooling in 4th grade also, and he would have resisted a literature-heavy curriculum at that time too. (Thankfully, that has changed since then, so there is hope!) I've found that it works best for him to piece together our LA curricula rather than using an all-in-one, because his ability level in reading comprehension and vocabulary was/is different than his level in grammar and writing/composition. So, in 4th grade, we used (all open-and-go): - Easy Grammar - And later switched to Hake Grammar, but only because we wanted the spiral review and diagramming in Hake that EG doesn't have, although you could add review to EG via the related supplement Daily Grams, plus a separate diagramming resource if that's important to you. Looking back, I definitely wouldn't stress about grammar instruction, beyond the basics of capitalization and punctuation, until 5th grade. - Writing With Ease level 4 - This level is "optional" if you've completed the previous levels, but since we were new to the series, we needed it. If you use this, be aware that the dictation sections are difficult and many of us that use it do not require the dictation of entire passages as written, as some of them are very long. As a matter of fact, remember that you do not have to follow any curriculum exactly as written! Do some stuff orally instead of making him write it. Teach him to type if he's pencil-phobic like many kids (esp. boys) this age. Skip things that seem like fluff. Whatever you use, make it work for you, not the other way around. - Spelling Workout - simple but effective (for us) - no formal lit program, just good library books and talking informally about some of them but not all Most of all, I'd encourage and remind you that you don't have to jump into doing all subjects at once. Perhaps just do some math and reading every day while you get your bearings. Take your time in choosing materials and just enjoy being with your son.

DS loves Mosdos Press lit. It is a values-based, secular program with selections from so many of the great authors. It also teaches a lot of vocab in context. We don't use the workbooks or the TM, but you can use them to go as deeply as you want. Pricey, but resale value is good. This year we're also using a couple of study guides for complete works by Garlic Press. I think they're better than most other lit guides I've seen for middle school. In addition to Lightning Lit, there's also a program by Memoria Press that gets mentioned here frequently.

I don't know anything about this program, but Homeschool Buyers Co-op sells an online subscription for a grammar and vocab curriculum called Word Voyage. (Sorry, I can't link for you, but you could google it.) Perhaps that would work? Or perhaps the student is at an age where he is responsible enough to check his own daily work and just submit periodic homework and/or tests to you for grading? IDK, with some kids that might work, at least as a short-term option. Hake Grammar (which we use) isn't online, but the lessons are written directly to the student, and level 8 covers pretty much all the grammar concepts (and review) most people would ever want/need.

Have you looked at Derek Owens physical science? How much math has the student had up to this point? (Might determine what field & level of science program is needed.) DO's website says his physical science is typically taken by 8th or 9th graders, and it does include labs. Students can take it online (and pay per month) or purchase the course on DVD as a one-time purchase. The DVD purchase option would allow re-use by younger siblings. For grammar, Analytical Grammar might be a good option. It has teaching DVDs available to go along with the books. Sorry I can't offer more suggestions. My DS is younger, but I'll be looking for secular independent science at this level too, so will be following along. Mostly consider this just a bump. :coolgleamA:

Connect the Thoughts ( http://www.connectthethoughts.net/ ) has several music history and theory options. The price is reasonable and they are ebooks, perfect for combining our tablet with music curriculum. My DS is using CTT Bach to Rock currently. He reads the lesson on his own and we listen to the relevant music selection together (usually via Pandora or YouTube) and then go through the questions orally. No writing, keeps it light and fun. DS is also using MP's Christian Studies I for bible literacy/appreciation this year. (We're secular HSers.) He started at the beginning level even though its targeted to younger kids. We do the Q&A from the workbook orally, no written work there. We go over the memory work once, but I don't stress the actual memorization of that material. We enjoy the maps it includes and I feel it is giving him a good overview. It is kinda dry, but it suits DS's no-nonsense, no-fluff preferences in curriculum. Since you already own MP, have you tried doing it orally? Or is the progran just a bad fit in other ways? Knowing that might help with other suggestions.

IEW teaches much more than summarizing. We've done SWI-B and are now looking forward to using their high school materials. FWIW, IEW is what SWB recommended in TWTM before she published her own writing curriculum. The nine IEW units, referenced by a PP, are: note-taking and outlines, summarizing from notes, summarizing from narrative stories, summarizing references and library reports (2 units), writing from pictures, creative writing, essay writing, and critiques. As PP wrote, not all units are covered in all levels - its a progression. You can see the scope and sequence for SWI-A if you go to the product page and then click on the samples tab. The S&S is on page 8 of the "sample" pdf. (I haven't been able to provide a link on this forum for several days, or else I would link it for you.)

Glad to hear you found something that will work! I forgot all about Noeo . . . but yes, that's another good option that doesn't use textbooks. I actually have Noeo Chemistry 3 on my shelf. But I didn't buy the kit they sell to go with it (bought a bigger one on sale through Amazon) and since we keep finding bunny trails to follow with our current program, I have no actual user experience yet with Noeo, so I didn't think to mention that one. Best of luck!

Elemental Science is open and go, and I believe most, if not all, of the options in the "classic" series have supply kits available for purchase. My DS really enjoyed the two ES logic stage programs we did in late 4th grade and 5th grade (biology & earth science/astronomy). My DS sounds similar to yours. Elementary science programs often didn't meet his input needs ("I already know this") . . . so he started doing logic stage programs for the input level he wanted and I adjusted the required output to fit his abilities. Elemental Science is based on science encyclopedias, though, so if your child doesn't like encyclopedias, Elemental Science likely won't go over well. But there is a hands-on lab scheduled every week, and it is easy to adjust or leave out the written output to fit your needs. Elemental Science is inexpensive too, so it might be a good partial-year option for you. Sorry, I can't link right now: elementalscience.com/classic.html

Spelling Workout. The upper levels cover word roots, prefixes, and suffixes from Latin and Greek. DS used the series until he got to the end. Its also what SWB recommends in TWTM Logic Stage.

Based on the ages of your kids, I'd suggest a children's science encyclopedia. Usborne makes some "first" (i.e., younger kid) encyclopedia versions. Usbornes usually have colorful two-page spreads on each topic covered, plus some have internet links relevant to each topic if you want more. If you buy one quality Usborne you'll get several years of use out of it before needing to switch to something else for older kids (like Kingfisher).

Can you elaborate on what the investigations problems are that you're referring to? Or give some examples? I'm not familiar enough with Saxon to know what you're talking about but if you can explain perhaps you'll get some alternatives.

Check out the math series by Tobey & Slater. If this prealgebra link doesn't work (typing on my phone) just search on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321567935?ie=UTF8&force-full-site=1&ref_=aw_bottom_links It has great explanations and teaching right in the text. I bought it after seeing several recommendations here by NittanyJen, and I have not been disappointed. There are currently several copies of the 4th edition available (latest is 5th edition) for around a dollar. Also, I haven't pursued it, but apparently MyMathLab.com has videos & other resources available for this textbook series. From the description on Tobey & Slater prealgebra on Amazon: "The Tobey/Slater series builds essential skills one at a time by breaking the mathematics down into manageable pieces. This practical “building block†organization makes it easy for readers to understand each topic and gain confidence as they move through each section. The authors provide a “How am I Doing?†guide to give readers constant reinforcement and to ensure that they understand each concept before moving on to the next. With Tobey/Slater, readers have a tutor and study companion with them every step of the way." I have Dolciani prealgebra and algebra as well. I like them too, but I think Tobey & Slater has really good explanations for self-teaching and/or for presenting a topic in different ways. I like having at least a couple of different texts around in case DS gets "stuck" with a particular topic, and Tobey & Slater is definitely a keeper for us.

You can sometimes find TC guidebooks as used book listings on Amazon, etc. Some sellers list their used DVDs and used guidebooks separately.

OP, can your daughter recognize her own mistakes if she looks back over her work, after a period of time has passed from when she wrote it? Sometimes kids get so involved in the writing process - thinking of what to write next - that correct grammar takes a backseat. Same thing with spelling, especially with younger kids. If she can correct her own work, once she's had some "distance" from it, I wouldn't worry too much. Time will probably fix it. It sounds like mechanics & usage editing practice might be needed, rather than a grammar instruction problem. But if she really needs more grammar instruction for things to click, I can vouch for Hake grammar, as someone else already mentioned, as thorough, rigorous, and complete, with spiral review in every lesson if you want to use it . . . and as a secular alternative to R&S, which is strong too. Analytical Grammar is another good middle school option. My DS currently enjoys Daily Paragraph Editing for fun, which is good practice for developing an eye for catching these errors too.

I haven't personally used it, but Ellen McHenry has a unit on botany that gets good reviews here. We've loved her chemistry units. You can buy either a printed version or a PDF. http://store.ellenjmchenry.com/?product=botany-in-8-lessons-digital-download

The Math Mammoth Blue Series contains two units dedicated to decimals. These are worktexts, so they contain both the explanations and the problems. They're perfect for remediation and review. I've used both MM and Key To, and I think MM's approach goes into the conceptual / "why do we do this" much better than Key To. Key To is good for rote practice after the concepts are taught elsewhere, though. http://www.mathmammoth.com/decimals_1.php http://www.mathmammoth.com/decimals_2.php

Mark Kistler has online videos to teach drawing. They are fun, cartoony types of drawings and my DS really enjoys them. Several of them are free for you to try out on his website. We subscribed through Homeschool Buyers Co-op at a significant discount off the regular price. ETA - even though they are cartoony, the lessons are step by step, and teach about shading, perspective, etc., which can be applied to other types of drawing too.

SWB recommends Rod & Staff for grammar. I haven't used it but some people here report it can be done somewhat independently, at least by older kids. (IMO, I wouldn't stress about grammar instruction until around 4th grade anyway.) If you prefer something secular, Hake grammar (but not writing, which is a minor portion of the program, in a separate book) is often mentioned as an alternative. Hake is independent, written to the student, and thorough, with review built in to every lesson. If there's too much review for your taste, you can just skip parts of it without missing anything. We tried MCT grammar as a break from Hake, and DS asked to go back to Hake instead of continuing MCT. I really wanted to love it, but I agree with you. MCT grammar is just too free-flowing for our taste, I guess. (But we love MCT vocab.) There's also Easy Grammar, with the optional companion Daily Grams for review. It doesn't include diagramming but diagramming could be added via other resources if you like the program otherwise. So there's a few more options for you to look at. HTH. BTW, your post appears on the K-8 writing workshop board, but you'll probably get more feedback if you X-post on the K-8 curriculum board. : )

OP, you might want to look at the Classic Series by Elemental Science. It is an open and go program based on children's encyclopedias, with labs built in to the schedule, and it follows WTM ideas. I didn't use the elementary level since my son was older when we started homeschooling, but we really liked the intermediate (middle school) level, which we started using in late 4th grade. I second the previous advice about adding in science videos like Magic School Bus and doing simple science kits for hands-on. The Young Scientists and Science Wiz make some good kits (check the reviews, some are better than others) that you can find on sites like Amazon. Science in elementary school does not have to be complicated.

Don't feel bad. You have not "wasted" their time. The school has benefited from having your son enrolled, even if it ends up being only temporary. When I notified my son's teacher that we were withdrawing him to homeschool, I gave her two days' notice, in person, and also thanked her for her work. It was a few weeks into the school year and DS wanted a couple of days to say his goodbyes. His teacher told me she knew what type of education my son needed, and that he wouldn't find it in public school. She also told me her own grandchildren were being homeschooled and she had a favorable opinion about it. She seemed sad to see DS leave, mostly because he was one of the few well-behaved and compliant students in her classroom. I tried to schedule an appointment to speak with the principal as well - the only way parents got to talk to him was by appointment - but his secretary politely declined and told me it wasn't necessary. I think the principal was just too chicken to face me, after he failed to keep his earlier promises about changes involving my DS. :lol: Therefore he got a notification letter delivered by certified mail to prove delivery, in case he tried to start any nonsense about truancy. There were no issues. Overall, the withdrawal process went very smoothly and my only regret was not doing it sooner.

I have no useful input as to which level you should use, but does this Amazon UK link for the FLL4 Instructor Guide work for you? http://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Language-Lessons-Well-Trained-Mind/dp/1933339349/ref=tmm_pap_title_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384109870&sr=1-8 I don't know why Amazon does this, but sometimes you have to look under "formats" and click on the plus sign to expand the formats section in order to see the IGs vs. the student workbooks for certain books. Just searching for them doesn't always work. The book titles as listed are not always complete. And here's the direct link for the FLL4 student workbook. http://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Language-Lessons-Well-trained-Mind/dp/1933339330/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1384109870&sr=1-8 Peace Hill Press also has both available as PDF downloads from their website, but I have no idea if that works as an option for you where you're located. You might also view the PHP website's samples of each level in deciding placement.

She didn't give any actual details about the sale yet, just that there will be one. So you didn't miss much. :coolgleamA: Here's the quote from the newsletter: "Just a heads-up: the traditional Math Mammoth Thanksgiving sale is coming soon! I will send another email about it when it starts." http://www.homeschoolmath.net/newsletter/volume77-november-2013.htm

I've purchased various MM products through Kagi and always had a pleasant, smooth transaction. I bought the Pre-Alg worksheets via Kagi just last week and got access to the download instantaneously - no delay, no problems. BTW, MM grade 7, which will be added to the Light Blue series - the series organized specifically by grade level rather than by topic - hasn't been released yet. Ms. Miller is still working on it. I wish it was out too. Ms. Miller's latest newsletter earlier this month indicated she'll once again have the annual Thanksgiving sale on her products, if you can wait another week or two to purchase. No details yet on how much the discount will be.

My DS needs the same type of daily review. We use Math Minutes. Ten problems on a page, intended to be done one page per day as a warmup, although I don't set a time limit for him. Every problem on the page covers a different concept, spiraling through all the concepts typically taught at each grade level. (BTW, for ease in grading, each workbook has the answer key in the back, and I just tear it out.) Here's a link to Math Minutes 5. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1574718169/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1383870532&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70 And publisher's website for samples: http://www.creativeteaching.com/products/math-minutes-5th-grade

I think you're referring to what Maria Miller, the Math Mammoth author, calls the Golden series. In your situation, I'd get the Light Blue worktext series rather than the Golden worksheet series. You'll have more options that way, and your cost will be almost the same since you're looking at grade 4 and up (rather than starting at the beginning). If your DS needs/wants to work more independently, the Light Blue series contains the teaching right there on the worktext pages, directed to the student. If you still want to teach him or use other products alongside MM, you can just have him skip the teaching sections, which really don't take up that much page space normally anyway. Also, sometimes kids need new concepts explained in a different way, so having the teaching available in Light Blue, even if you don't use it much, might come in handy sometimes even alongside another curriculum. Furthermore, you'll get access to as many free worksheets as you want when you buy the Light Blue series. Light Blue includes a free worksheet generator, so as needed you can create worksheets on whatever topics you want, set for your formatting preferences, number of problems on a page, etc. So you could buy the Grade 4 through 6 (three years' worth) Light Blue package for $70 currently and get the teaching built-in with free access to on-demand worksheets, or you could spend $65 and get the Golden Series worksheets only with no teaching built in. Do you already get the email newsletters from Ms. Miller? Just the other day she announced there will be a sale on her products a little closer to Thanksgiving, so if you can wait a couple weeks you can get an even better deal.