Got it, sorry, was just trying to be helpful. Best of luck in your search.

Since you used Holt previously, would CPO be an option? Or are you wanting to get away from the typical textbooks? CPO has labs, worksheets, & lots of videos and resources free on their website. I bought CPO Earth student, TM and lab workbook for around $35 total in like-new condition.

How old are your kids? (Didn't see that mentioned.)

The depth of Elemental Science will depend on what encyclopedia(s) you use as the source text. You mentioned just using books you have on your shelves, and that could definitely work, but I don't know if I would recommend using it with encyclopedias other than the ones it was written for. (You can see the required and optional encyclopedia titles & their ISBNs in the samples.) You certainly CAN use different encyclopedias, but then you're not taking full advantage of the main benefit of the guide/schedule, which is that the assignments are geared towards specific page numbers, vocab lists, discussion Q&A. If you use different encyclopedias, then you'll have to substitute page numbers and perhaps some topics. IMO, one of the best features of ES is that I don't have to tweak it or look up alternatives every week, I use it as written, open and go. If I had the time and willingness to re-write it every week, I'd probably just create something myself. YMMV. I've never used McHenry's Brain, Cells, or Botany, but we have used The Elements and Carbon Chemistry. We really enjoyed them, but they were just supplemental at our house. Full of in-depth info and great activities, but we had to skip lots of sections because they were reinforcement activities geared to class/co-op situations and we just couldn't/wouldn't do them at home with my one student. Also, doing it the way we did, each book only took about a month to complete. Again, YMMV. Maybe Brain, Cells or Botany are quite a bit different, though. A $50 budget, for 7th grade science, might be a pretty tall order, unless you have great luck buying used or can use your library heavily. Have you looked at NOEO? It uses "real" non-fiction science books. Its probably over your $50 budget, but you could just pick the books and hands-on kits that are most critical to you or most appealing. That might save some money for you. Or maybe your library would have many of the required books. Maybe worth a look.

I don't have much to add, but just wanted to chime in and clarify that Elemental Science classic isn't really a "science text". It is, rather, a guide/schedule that organizes a systematic study of science using widely-published secular encyclopedias, i.e., DK, Kingfisher, etc. We use it and DS loves it. So for the logic stage you get a scheduled-out, open-and-go list of reading assignments, writing assignments, vocab lists, memory work, discussion questions, tests, weekly hands-on labs you can do at home, etc.. So . . . not really literature-based, more encyclopedia-based. Going on what you've written, probably not what you're looking for. :coolgleamA: We use Elemental Science and add in TOPS kits and kits/projects from Home Science Tools for even more fun.

I agree. Usborne Encyclopedia of World History is way too blurby, more like lists of facts or bullet points scattered across the pages, too summarized for outlining. The more narrative style but still not too wordy paragraph format of Kingfisher's Illustrated History of the World (white cover, out of print but still available) worked great for outlining for my DS in 5th grade and we'll be using it again for 6th grade. Newer versions of the Kingfisher may be more summarized - I think I've read that here on the boards. Try looking for threads about the differences between Kingfisher editions. I can't search right now but there was such a thread not too long ago. Or check your library to see if you can get your hands on one or more editions of Kingfisher before you decide which one to use. Really, any encyclopedia that isn't just lists of bullet points, or any well-written history book, should work fine for outlining. ETA: Our method evolved over the year and ended up not being exactly as prescribed in WTM. We used the white Kingfisher for taking notes (outlining the main point of a paragraph, list of facts, whatever approach worked at that particular point in time) and the K12 Human Odyssey vol. 1 for additional reading and (oral) narrations. I didn't require as much written output since DS was doing plenty of writing in his writing curriculum. I also didn't spend time chasing down additional reading resources from the library for every topic - K12 HO filled that need for us in a single text.

Ditto the park. Also try the public library. During the school year, if you go during school hours, you're especially likely to bump into other homeschoolers. We found that some families go at the same time & day each week.

Just to throw something different out there, Classical Conversations has apps in the iTunes store for memory work. Last time I looked, there was an app for 2 of their 3 cycles, and I'm assuming they're writing the app for the last cycle. We don't do CC, but my DS likes doing the apps just for fun. He alternates between those and Brain Pop, about 10 minutes a day. They aren't free, but IIRC, around $8 - $10 or so. So if you have an iPad/iPod, there's that option.

Well, it isn't really a "science book". Its a guide and schedule for organizing a coherent study of the topics covered using well-known, widely-published, secular science encyclopedias. The ClassiQuest guide/schedule includes laid-out assignments for reading (in the required encyclopedias), hands-on activities, vocabulary, memory work, written reports, etc. There are plenty of colorful pictures in the assigned encyclopedias! :)

Duckens, thank you for such a thorough list!

Duckens, I loved your post. Can you recommend any specific online media outlets you currently believe to be reliable sources to replace the specific "dying" print media you referenced? Are the websites of Time, Newsweek, or U.S News and World Report (if they exist, I'm not able to look online at the moment) currently as good as their hard copies are or once were? Thank you!

Wish I could offer more to help. Easy Grammar's pages are pretty uncluttered, as I recall, and all black and white too. If you go that route, maybe you could add the supplement Daily Grams that goes with Easy Grammar for more review if he needs it. You may have done this already, but consider posting on the Learning Challenges sub-forum too. Hopefully you'll get more BTDT advice.

According to this thread, Art of Argument was secularized in 2010, so the 2010 edition should be OK for you. No personal experience, though. Would love to hear if you have knowledge to the contrary, because we're pretty conservative (so a conservative bias might still work for us, depending on the topic) but secular, and I've been wondering about A of A too.

If you'd like more recommendations, we've enjoyed: The Other Side of History: Daily Life in the Ancient World - covers Ancient and some Medieval history (2 out of the 8 discs cover Vikings, Medieval, Crusades) - DS enjoys the social history aspect, makes it seem "real" to him - and this one is on sale right now! Early American History: Native Americans through the Forty-Niners - geared to a younger audience than most GC courses, i.e., high schoolers, and my DS likes them too - the professor dresses in costume and assumes the persona of a different character for each time period covered World History: The Fertile Crescent to The American Revolution - same professor & format as above, for some reason we didn't like this one quite as much as the Early American history one, but still good

Just FYI, K12 can certainly state that policy, and they have every right to stop producing their hard copies, but they have no legal basis for attempting to prevent purchasers of their printed products from re-selling those products. This is known as the first sale doctrine. (It applies to printed copyrighted material, not digital media.) "The first sale doctrine, codified at 17 U.S.C. § 109, provides that an individual who knowingly purchases a copy of a copyrighted work from the copyright holder receives the right to sell, display or otherwise dispose of that particular copy, notwithstanding the interests of the copyright owner." ~ http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01854.htm (bolding mine for emphasis) ETA: That's not to say that I don't like K12, just putting the information out there. We use Human Odyssey and I like it a lot. I've also liked the other K12 history and language arts books that I've tried so far. Excellent materials. Bought all of them used. :coolgleamA:

You're not alone in your feelings about GWG and WWW. I've seen some here who used them more than a year or two (or more) say the same. We tried GWG and dumped it, poor retention, too easy to get the correct answers without understanding the concept. What did you/kids not like about CLE? Knowing that might help guide further suggestions. For your older DS, it's hard to answer whether or not you should go back with him and start over in the same level of grammar curriculum as your younger. If you feel he needs that, it probably isn't a mistake. You know him best and how he might respond to that. Would he see it as a negative, sibling rivalry, etc.? Or maybe any potential "rivalry" would have a positive, motivating effect? However, I think typically, students can jump into any grammar curriculum at grade level with no problems, because so much of it reviews and builds on itself year to year. Since you say he is reading and spelling delayed, maybe use a grammar level that matches his reading/spelling ability currently. I have no experience with FLL, but I have experience with and can recommend both Easy Grammar and Hake Grammar. (But I don't care for the writing portion of Hake, which is a separate workbook, not part of the main textbook, so easy to exclude.) I did use the lengthy sample of ALL (Advanced Language Lessons) before that product was shelved indefinitely, and I can say that if FLL is anything like ALL, I wish I could have used FLL with my DS. Anyway, here's a recent thread about Easy Grammar, in case you missed it. You said your older "requires a good bit of reminder", so maybe the spiral review (LOTS of review) in Hake would work well for him too. You said you saw the WWE samples, but did you see the diagnostic evaluation for WWE placement? On this page, click on "Writing With Ease Diagnostic Evaluations". I also have experience with Institute for Excellence in Writing (IEW) and like it very much. It gets good reviews for use with both typical students, who may or may not be writing-reluctant, and those with learning differences. It is very incremental and procedural. Here's a recent thread on it too. My DS thrived with IEW. He loved knowing exactly what was expected in every assignment and having a framework to guide him. The majority of negative reviews of IEW are from those who haven't actually used it, they just dislike the idea of it, and I suspect many of those have kids who happily write creatively for fun anyway - and that's not my situation, LOL. Would be happy to answer any questions you might have about something I've used. Best of luck to you! :grouphug:

Welcome! You've received lots of great advice already. Just wanted to add, those lists of how much time to spend on each subject in WTM can indeed be overwhelming, and I've seen it posted here many times that SWB herself doesn't/didn't stick to those requirements with her own kids. They're included in the book as suggestions only, and were included at the insistence of the book's publisher, not SWB. So take them with a grain of salt and just do what feels right to you. To start, you might even want to begin with only a couple of subjects (just math and reading, or whatever DD prefers) and add in the rest one at a time, maybe every few weeks, until you find your groove. As is often stated, homeschooling is a marathon, not a sprint! : ) ETA: If it would be helpful, here's my example of a way to modify WTM guidelines to suit your needs. We follow the spirit of the guidelines but do not spend as much time on it in practice. My DS doesn't love history and he'd rather spend more time on science. So we streamline history, doing it just 2 days week, doing less writing and research than WTM prescribes. DS outlines a couple of paragraphs from Kingfisher History and makes an entry on a homemade timeline on one day. Then on the 2nd day, he'll read 15 or 20 pages in Human Odyssey, and we might watch a relevant documentary sometime that week during lunch. He gets plenty of writing in his writing curriculum, so we don't do much writing in history, for example. Also, speaking of writing, if you're using SWB's Writing With Ease or her newer Writing With Skill, or any other rigorous writing curriculum, you may not want or need to do as much "writing across the curriculum" in history/science/literature as WTM prescribes. My DS did WWE4, then spent a year on Institute for Excellence in Writing products, and is now starting Writing With Skill. Here at the beginning, I won't ask for much writing in anything except what he does for WWS assignments. As time goes by and he gets more proficient writing skills, I'll add that extra writing across the curriculum back in, gradually.

We love Great Courses! Thank you!

I like the LA products I've tried from Garlic Press. They also have math and sign language products but I haven't used those. For instance, Straight Forward Grammar and Diagramming Sentences and Discovering Literature guides - 2 levels (My Side of the Mountain; Where the Red Fern Grows; Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH; Island of the Blue Dolphins; Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry; The Outsiders; Bridge to Terabithia; The Hobbit; Redwall; The Odyssey; Lord of the Flies; The Giver; To Kill a Mockingbird). The lit guides are gentle yet thorough, don't seem like annoying busywork, work well for a younger yet advanced reader too.

I love your post, Amy. You've captured my experience with IEW products as well, better than I could have stated it, especially the bolded above.

You're right, by WWE4, the work is still focused on narration and dictation (no copywork though), just harder and more complex, and doing it on paper instead of verbally. An older student can easily start out doing WWE3 (for instance) verbally and then shift quickly to writing it down. No need to run through all 4 levels, unless you just want to. The first few weeks of WWS is a review of the written narration skills, then moves on to new skills.

Don't give up on WWS yet. Agreeing with previous poster, 9 is young for WWS, especially if she's not done much narrating before. And WWE is not a required prerequisite for WWS at all. However, narration/summarizing skills will be needed, and paragraph-writing skills and perhaps an *introduction* to formal outlining will be helpful before starting WWS. Also, you don't need to start WWE at the beginning to be successful with the WWE series. You're fine to jump into WWE at WWE3 or the optional WWE4 (perhaps with modified requirements for the dictations, because many agree they are too hard). But neither WWE3 nor WWE4 is required to do WWS - you can get the skills needed to start WWS elsewhere, as others have described.

The Basher Science books have titles that correlate with a lot of those chapters. Have you seen Basher books before? They're deceptively informational, lots of info packed into fun little books. My DS loves them. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_14?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=basher%20science&sprefix=basher+science%2Caps%2C302

Ellie is right. Easy Grammar is thorough and complete. Don't let the name "Easy" Grammar fool you. How old is your DS? What grammar has he done previously? I especially liked EG's prepositions-first approach - it makes so much sense. I let my DS choose whether to continue EG or switch to Hake. He chose Hake because it has more review (more than he needs, actually), is written more to the student (he wanted more independence) and because it does include diagramming. However, more review and a diagramming supplement could easily be added to EG *if* you want it. Those two components are not necessary for many students.

Bumping for you. I've never used or seen LLATL but hopefully you'll get more responses/advice. If you're looking for grammar with lots of review, check out Hake Grammar. Every lesson teaches a new concept, with 5 or so practice questions and around 10 exercises over that new topic, then around 20 - 30 review questions over other concepts that have been covered thus far. There's so much review, I usually have my DS do only every other review question. The program is designed to do 3 days per week for a 180 day school year (approx. 120 lessons) and my DS spends about 20 minutes per lesson. The program is solid and thorough, not flashy at all, but it gets the job done and we're continuing it next year. It includes diagramming, though at the grade 5 level (where we started) there are usually only 2 or 3 diagramming exercises per lesson. The diagramming is easy to exclude if you don't want it. Also look at Easy Grammar. I haven't used the middle school levels, but we did Easy Grammar 4 before Hake. EG4 had chapter reviews and cumulative reviews built in, but not nearly as much review as Hake. Maybe you could do EG plus the Daily Grams supplement that goes with it. EG does not teach diagramming, or else we probably would have stuck with it. Maybe I'm too picky, but I've never found an all in one LA program that I liked. I believe there are different sources/publishers that are best for each area, and my DS is at different levels for different things, so the piecemeal approach is the route we've taken.