I would say its true. I have found my very bright 13yo is not really properly in the Logic stage yet, although shes just coming round now. I can't imagine she will be in rhetoric any time soon. She is mature, happy, well adjusted, not particularly sensitive kid, who actually doesn't really care that much about things to think about them too deeply.:001_smile: Her interests are elsewhere. She's a social butterfly and artist, but is one of those kids that can do anything she puts her mind to, well enough. She read Ann Frank. She found it interesting for a while, then boring. It didnt upset her. And if she thought deeply about it, she didn't let on . :) Her 12yo brother however, cant do Logic puzzles for anything, but he thinks deeply and comes up with amazing insights at times and loves to talk about them. I suspect he is developing in some ways ahead of his sister, or perhaps its just his very different personality. Didnt the ancients do rhetoric in their late teens and early twenties? I suspect we will only be beginning that phase when I am finishing with my two and they are moving off into their next phase of life.

Dh and I started leaving our kids alone to go for walks when they are around 6. Maybe 5 and 6 even. We have lived on the banks of a river with lovely walks. We would take a break to go for a walk together, leaving the kids in front of the tv. (Of course, usually they would come. But sometimes we would do it alone, too). Within another couple of years we were leaving them alone to go to a movie sometimes. They had phone numbers, and they knew the neighbours. Never had a blip of a problem. But, these are particularly grounded, sensible kids. Their older (by 5 years) half sister could never be left alone, and we wouldn't leave her alone with her siblings. She just wasnt a kid you would do that with, but we didnt have her full time either. She was Dx ADHD. I would take her to the beach, and wheras my two would naturally stay near me, she would take them off wandering, and she had no natural sense of how far was too far, or when to come back. I would have to go and get them, because she would take them out of earshot,and eyesight, completely oblivious to me. Just a very different kid. I think it's a gut instinct thing, and it always felt ok when we did it. We were very conscious of what we were doing. If it didn't feel ok, we didn't do it.

My 12yo son needs a lot of one on one attention due to learning difficulties. My 13yo daughter doesn't need as much attention, and prefers to work independently as much as possible. So it works. We spend about an hour together each day doing read alouds and things together for school. they stay on the same history cycle etc It is nice that they read many of the same books. We watch the same movies related to our studies. We have discussions related to what we are learning. Would your 8yo be able to do a fair amount on her own, and then you could do some things together, and with her? Could it be an advantage to your son to have a sibling there, to just play with, bounce off etc? Fortunately for me and my kids, the older is the one who is ahead academically. I know it can be hard if its the older that is struggling...but it might also mean they are close in ability and can be taught together in some areas. Only you can know if its right to give it a go. I am often heartened by my dd's ability to grasp things easily. It is great to have her around.

When they were little, I would get "touched out" and need a physical break from them. But dh always worked from home, so when he had a break he wold send me to my room, or out of the house. I got breaks. my younger was very clingy and demanding (the Boy), despite attachment parenting, sharing my bed, BF till he was 3.5 etc- so overall, it never seemed like quite enough space and I always felt a little overloaded. But then they got older, more independent. By the time the kids were 6/7 ish, dh and I would go for walks, or to the shops, while they watched tv. Or I would go out somewhere leaving the kids at home sometimes while dh worked at home. I know people in the U.S. find that horrifying, that kids that young are left without more direct supervision, and most people here don't do it either, but these two kids just happen to be sensible and down to earth, and they knew emergency routines, neighbours etc, and it just felt ok to us. My step daughter however was not a sensible kid and even though she is 5 years older than my oldest, we never left her in charge- they were safer without her there. Now, I get heaps of space. They do their own thing. I have afternoon naps most days, and often spend a couple of hours in the afternoon, the evening AND the early morning, alone. I am naturally an "alone" type person, I love and need lots of space. And I get it.

I think I read most of them cover to cover. Except the Odyssey. I just never could get my teeth into that in grade 10! We were jsut expected to read it. Ha. There was no Fagles version then, either! But mostly, I loved the books in highschool. We read The Crystal Cave by Mary Stewart. We read the Hobbit. And others like P&P, Jane Ayre, Tess of the D'urbavilles, Catcher in the Rye. 1984. Actually, we did 1984 for my last year in school....which WAS 1984. What I didnt read thoroughly was those comprehension passages where they have a chunk of writing and a whole lot of questions underneithe. Yuk. I was good at skimming them just for the answers.

There have been many but recently I read Thoreau's Walden and I just loved it. It made me feel much more optimistic about reading more classics. I kind of got stuck on Don Quixote and never really got going from there, apart from the classics the kids and I read together9which is actually quite a few). I also loved P&P, Jane Ayre and Tess of the Durbevilles when I was in highschool, but havent read them since. I intend to. Also, I was surprised how much I enjoyed Treasure island, Robinson Crusoe, and in particular, the Swiss Famaily Robinson, when I read them to the kids.

The book after Wordsmith Apprentice is called simply Wordsmith. Its for grades 7-9, although it can be done earlier. (Write Shop is another program altogether) The book after that in the same series, for highschoolers, is called Wordsmith Craftsman. Susan WB has reviewed them here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/wordsmith.html HTH

Its easier to use a digital camera for the course, although it can be done with either. The assignment is to each week take 24 photos considering the element that is being learned that week- the first week is light. Of course it explains it more. The program is written to students who are interacting with the teacher online, so they would post their photos to a website called flickr. We will maybe do something like that anyway. I am not sure how we are going to do the black and white chapter yet..maybe take the photos over to photo shop and turn them into b/w?

Writer's Jungle doesn't provide you with any structure, and you don't need the Arrow/Slingshot or the online courses. WJ teaches you how to teach your kids. It doesn't give you a structure. So of course, thats why people use the Arrow/Slingshot and the online courses. They want structure. They want to be shown. You can also get the emails, which tell you to take a day off maths to watch movies, or have a Shakespeare Day, or Friday Freewrite time. Prompts, more than structure. As Julie says, its more of a lifestyle thing than a curriculum. Its all centred around freewriting. And you can do that without the program, once you learn what that is- you can find out on the website, I am pretty sure. You make up your own schedule, but she gives ideas. Its inspiring, and I think thats what its meant to be, but if you are looking for a curriculum, I would say thats not really what it is. Slingshot etc have some dictation passages and some literary elements. I didnt think there was much to them, myself. Truly, they are things you can do yourself, but of course, many mums dont feel confident enough to do that, so they are there for that reason.

I very much follow my interests, and my interests come up strong and I get obsessive, then just as fast they can disappear and I move onto something else. I find I cant read fast enough when I am really into something. its not that I am completely flaky (I keep telling myself) and inconsistent, but I am not trying to reach some outer goal, or please anyone but myself, so I trust that following my interests is just fine. Sometimes my interest is to read my kids' school books for next term,and that feels like the best thing to be doing. but then I might come across a spiritual book, or this week, a health/cook book, and nothing else seems to matter but reading them. I have set myself a schedule though for reading the kids' books.

No, not really, and the house is pretty good really, considering. But I may not have high standards compared to others :001_smile: I have been a Flybaby for years but I still clean in bursts. Today, a beautiful autumn day, I cleaned out two cupboards and threw a lot of stuff away, and then decluttered all the bench tops. It felt great! And I cooked date bread, and corn bread. But I am a bit behind on washing, I haven't changed my sheets in a couple of weeks, and I haven't vacuumed in a couple of weeks either, but the floors aren't too bad. It will all get done. My kids also do a fair bit. I will get them together some time in the next couple of days (we are on autumn holidays) and we will vacuum and change sheets and things. But I am pretty loose with all that. Theres no strict schedule. It gets done literally when I feel like doing it. And when its a nice sunny day, usually. Mess does irk me, but as long as the kitchen is clean and the tabletops are clear, my desk is relatively clean, and my bedroom relatively clear, I can go for days without thinking about cleaning :001_smile:

Maybe you could ask the leaders of the coop for some ideas then? Would Lightning Literature work? I haven't seen it. I presume it has some writing assignments? Or, could you choose a few novels and look online for ideas of assignments to go with them? Thats what I have done when I need inspiration to make up a writing assignment- I search online for what other people have done already, and it usually gives me some inspiration.

I am a Homer drop out. I couldn't do the sentence diagramming. The rest was ok, well, I managed. It was the time aspect for me. It took up so much of our day. However, I don't see our time with CW wasted at all. And i didn't want to move to another program like Homer. I must admit, I didn't think there was one. CC didn't really appeal. I was burned out. We moved to English Prep. And Sentence Composing. And Brave Writer. And I made up my own writing assignments. And, my oldest was doing writing with a small group here, with an English teacher. So, with all that, i felt there was enough writing. This year I tried Wordsmith but my kids hated it. They just strongly dislike canned writing programs like Writing Strands or Wordsmith. Except they didn't mind Aesop/Homer. It was me who burned out on it. It takes a lot to teach. A part of me would like to buy Composition in the Classical Tradition and work through the progym myself with the kids. Then I could assign them topics related to history or science or our literature. Then I think, well, I could do that with CW too,(Make up my own assignments), so why don't I? because it feels like too much. I dont have the energy to do it right now. Maybe I will in the future.

We usually have several books going at once. Often I will have 2 or 3 read alouds, and the kids will have at least 2 books each. I am heading more than way too. But often they will have different books on different days, so its not all books on all days. And they generally have some fiction going for night time reading, which sometimes they read during teh day too. However, when my son was just beginning to really get into reading, he didnt get so much.

I was a depressed teenager. More social wouldn't have helped me, because I had feelings I needed to work through (parents divorced). A good therapist would have helped a lot. My life would have looked quite different if I had been made to see a therapist. I was asked if I wanted to, but I said no. I was depressed. I said no a lot. My daughter is a bright live wire, but if she doesn't see her friends for just a few days, she wilts and I think if she didn't have the sort of social life she does, she could get depressed. I see it in her briefly sometimes. She is very involved in Scouts, plus sees her homeschool best friend 3 times a week usually, plus other homeschool kids. Plus she goes to an art and a sewing class where she knows the girls well.Basically, she sees other kids every day, and that is important to her. And, she gets a lot of time away from us, her parents, with Scouts. I think the other women have said good things, I just thought I would share how much my daughter socialises in order to be happy homeschooling.

:iagree: I love the stuff.

Dh rides (a Harley, he is so proud of his Harley) but he doesn't usually take the kids. He takes them sometimes for a treat, up to the shops, here and there. Not long rides yet. But, he knows I am a bit paranoid about it, so that's partly why. I love riding with him sometimes, but a part of me is always nervous that here are *both* parents on a bike. Older riders tend to be safer though. I am always nervous when dh is out riding. My mind imagines all sorts of things. But, its his life, and riding is not the worst thing he could be doing, so I accept it. Edited to say I just put a photo of dh on his Harley on my blog.

I cut back on unessentials. Some things don't matter if we skip a day or a week- certain read alouds, our Logic program, our Latin program (one child's, not the other)...they are just ongoing things which we do regularly over a long period of time. There are other things, though, which put us out if we don't do them. For example, our history schedule is quite tightly planned for the term. And we do French with a woman and we have a certain amount of homework to get through. So, I am more inclined to drop the things which are ongoing, except for maths, and make sure we do history or French, because there are consequences for not keeping up with them. Guilty admission though....I am more likely to drop things if *I* am having a rough day, than if the kids are. If its just the kids, and I am fine, I will help them more, sit with them, whatever is necessary, and maybe let them drop a subject. Use humour to keep going. There is a point where it become futile to continue, but thats rare here. If *I* am tired or hormonal or just feeling ragged, I will often cut out work they need *me* for, and give them more reading to do, or something independent.

Or, you could just back off on grammar and spelling and not try to do it all :001_smile: I have burned out in the past and I am using more and more of Ambleside myself, while still staying with the 4year history cycle, which I just prefer. So I am using the Ancient history part of year 6, and intend to go onto year 7 after that. There is a lot in common with TWTM at the upper school (HEO) level. Latin, grammar program,Logic. But I am giving "just narrations" a try, rather than using a formal writing program. For now. I am happy to focus on writing more intensely later, but we have already done that for years. And, we haven't done much grammar for a while- we will focus on it intensely with Analytical grammar- then drop it again. We have done so much grammar in the last few years, it's not a weak area. However, I could easily end up burning out on anything I do, and grass is greener syndrome is very contagious. I think I have just been through a shift where now I am willing to let go and say, enough is enough, we don't have to do it all today, time to go and play. I have spent years focusing on language arts, and I feel to broaden our focus. This year feels like a creative one.

Based on what you have said, I would go for the more relaxed one. But that is more my style anyway. I use homeschool classes as a double for social groups- and my kids have the most amazing social life. Without it, they are not happy, so it's worth it. I prefer to be pretty involved too, so I don't think I would go for the more rigorous one you were mentioning, if it covered very many things. Fun is important and can be an important motivating factor for many kids.

We start with chores and music practice. The kids get up by 7am and have to get moving, in fact one has a music class at 8am so theres not much time for dawdling. There are no frills, nothing special, and I guess thats because i don't really have a problem with Monday morning. We also go out to our coop part of the day, so the kids have some social life and fun to look forward to- it seems to be good to have that on Mondays. However, I am also obsessive about getting enough sleep, and pretty organised with anything I need to do for Monday, so I think that helps. However, I am also obssesive about keeping my Sundays as relaxed as possible, because I work and have band practice on Saturdays. My kids do not particularly love getting into their schoolwork any day, but Monday is not particularly worse. I just keep a pretty tight routine going- lots of morning chores and music practice get the brain going before attacking the books.

My 9th grader still does piano, and has been doing a watercolour course for 3 years now. She also paints and draws a lot in her spare time- so she is a self taught artist to some extent. She also does an artistic sewing class with the same woman who teaches her watercolours. She is about to do a one semester photography course from Oakmeadow. It is music and art appreciation, not the practical side, that I fall short on ( I only dont fall short on the practical because I pay money for someone else to teach her, but its important to her). So I am hooked back into Ambleside's program and we did Handel last term, and will do Telemann and Brahms this coming term. And for art, we are doing Waterhouse. All it literally takes is turning on the CD when I get up in the morning and having music playing in the background at least sometimes, and at some point spending a bit of time learning about the composer's life. I used Classics for Kids for that. And for art, it takes doing a narration of a painting once a week- 10 minutes at most- and again at some point looking up the artist. She is amazing though...she remembers stuff we did years ago, probably because she has an interest. I am not trying to give her "credits" or anything for it, we don't think in those terms here. I am interested in her being a well rounded person, and this is an easy way to do it. If anything, I was finding it harder to fit in before. Now, I find it easier because I am more relaxed, and from that space, it feels like a priority.

We loved it. I used it last year with my then 11 and 12 yos. Boy and girl. We did it together, mostly orally. We skipped a lot of the fill in the blank stuff. We did the reading as a read aloud, we did the unit studies and literary analysis as read aloud, and comprehension questions as read aloud. At first, we did everything, but after a while we dropped the tests, the fill in the blank bits, and half way through we dropped the vocabulary. Part of the books is really dark, and we did get bogged down for a couple of months. Most of the time we enjoyed it, and my son had to keep telling us about the computer games - he has the LOTR computer games, and they are based on the books, not the movies, so are pretty accurate. So that excited him. None of us had read the books, so that was good. We had all seen the movies but it was great to see them again after reading...the movies change significant things. The writing assignments in it were moral based, rather than critical thinking based....not my cup of tea. We did a few, but then I made up my own. We didn't write every week for it. I think it depends on your kids. Doing it the way i did it, I kept the interest up. If I had handed all the worksheets and assignments to my kids and had them work independently, they would have hated it...but they are at the younger end of the spectrum recommended for the program. Overall, I was very happy with it and would recommend it. The amount of literary terminology and analysis was perfect for us, and the kids got familiar with all the terms- it was perfect. Cutting back the way we did, after a while, we spent 30-40 minutes a day on it, including the reading of the books. If you were to do it all, you would be looking at a fair bit more time.

Similar situation here....dd13 has long botticcelli ringlets. We read the Curly Girl book together and since then she only washes her hair occasionally, and she wets and conditions it, and combs it in the shower, every single day. Yes it takes time, but her hair is soft and beautiful. She also plaits it at night time. Truly, I would not have the patience, but she has seen it makes all the difference. Without the care she gives it, her hair is bushy. With the care, it is silky long ringlets. Her brother with smooth shiny straight hair, doesn't take care of it, and it is straw like. I buy expensive conditioner too. It just seems that its one of those areas you get what you pay for, and when it makes such a difference, its worth it.

This was an issue for me too. I usually have had a calendar with big spaces to write in, on the wall next to my desk. And since everyone could see it, and not my personal planner, I dropped the personal planner. Since we have changed the room we homeschool in, my desk is more available for everyone to walk past. I bought myself a planner, its about 8" by 10", and it is spiral bound and lays flat. It stays open on my desk. I looked everywhere for this particular style because it has vertical columns for each day, a week to a double page spread, with a section for notes at the bottom. So its all I use now, and I gave my wall calendar to my daughter to learn to use. I use it as a normal planner. I do everything in this one book. I use pages I havn't used from parts of the year I am on holidays, to write up homeschool plans, booklists, anything. I plan my menus in it, (when i get around to doing that!). I put all my Flylady stickers in it and write notes to myself regarding cleaning etc. The book is slim. I find it easy to take places when I want to. It has a flap at the front and back I can slip bills or notes, but I tend to just pin them on a pin board at my desk. Its been a revolution to me to be able to use a planner for so many things, but it has to do with the days being in vertical columns lined up next to each other. Somehow that just works for me, and no other planner really has. The size feels really reasonable. However, I do also carry a very small handbag , with a small notepad in it, and sometimes i write notes in that, to transfer to my diary, but its not often. hth