Wasting my life, go get Bachelor's, finish well with DS12, Quill babbling, help me think thru

[JumpyTheFrog]

Do it. As people here often say, in five years, you'll be five years older no matter what you do. You can either have some/all classes done in five years or still be sitting around wondering, "What if?"

[Guest]

Do it. As people here often say, in five years, you'll be five years older no matter what you do. You can either have some/all classes done in five years or still be sitting around wondering, "What if?"

In fact, that is exactly what got me on the road to getting my AA.

[BlsdMama]

All of those questions are part of my hesitance. The thing I would *really* like to do would be Psychology, because I would want to go into Speech Language Pathology and LDs. But that would obviously mean more schooling than a BS. However, there are jobs to be had with just a BS in Psychology, which can also lead to tuition reimbursement for further schooling. If they don't care how ancient I am. ðŸ˜

 

The debt questions are more nebulous. We own some properties that could ultimately be developed and sold at a very handy profit that would pay for the remainder of the kids' colleges (no debt for that so far) and so mine would either be paid off when those properties are sold or before that, most likely. It's just that there's a lot of development work that has to happen before those properties are sold and DH is not pressed about making that happen yet, so...it's a little hard to figure out.

Happy sigh.  My perfect degree plan is yours.  :D

 

Another thought just because DD has been down this road.  If you decide to go back part time, it wouldn't be part time for long.  With part time you could really nail your GPA for undergrad which could lead to competitiveness for TA work or some such to pay for your Masters. The jobs for Psych degrees is pretty limited and I suspect you will want that Masters eventually.  Something else to think of that DD found out - she wants to work for the AEAs eventually with assessing and remediation of LD's.  U Iowa is currently #1 for Speech Path for Masters degrees and pretty much with anything short of a 3.5+ she wasn't going to get into their grad program so she began looking around and talking to counselors.  School Psychology was what she's settled on.   Take a peek at this descriptor and see if it fits:  https://coe.uni.edu/departments/educational-psychology-foundations/eds-school-psychology/school-psychology-uni

 

 

This is getting a little off track of your original thought but I want to do some math with you.

 

Let's say it takes four years (part time) to get your bachelors.  DS will be 16 then and in high school.  Your Masters (full time) would be two years - or wait until he's 18 and off to college.  At that point you would still be graduating with Masters and have PLENTY of time to work and help people without any of the mommy guilt too.

[Lecka]

I think that is a really good point about school psych.

 

I think you need to think about how you want to work with kids. Do you want to be more of a tutor, seeing and working with a kid over a long period of time? Maybe seeing the same kids weekly?

 

Or are you more interested in figuring out what is needed, and making the plan, giving the guidance?

 

This is just my personal experience with school psychs, but they do not build a relationship with kids so much. They meet kids and do want to build a rapport. Maybe they try to meet kids a few times to build a rapport before they do the testing. Then they do the testing and write the report. Then they attend the IEP meeting. After the IEP meeting -- they probably don't really have much contact with that kid again for months or a year. Yes they get to see kids progress over time. Yes it is important. It is more getting to know new kids and doing planning, though, than being the one to build the relationship with the kids and actually do the tutoring/intervention.

 

If you worked privately or maybe at a school set up differently, then you can have freedom to work in a way you want, if you want to do the tutoring yourself also.

 

But it seems like the person with the expertise in planning is able to bill a lot of money for planning/testing/program design.

 

But then the person who actually does the tutoring or intervention is probably not the one to diagnose, and maybe/maybe not the one to comprehensively plan.

 

Like -- as a parent, maybe someone says "see this kind of tutor." And you are either the tutor. Or you are the person who says "I have a vision for what kind of tutor you need."

 

You might be happy either way, but there are times when people get bored doing the day-in day-out of tutoring and wish they had more variety (and in a sense -- probably wish they had more mental stimulation). And there are times people have a higher job but get frustrated because they don't have the time spent with individual kids and building relationships with them, that they really find fulfilling.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Lecka

[Pink and Green Mom]

What would you think of someone who was not previously a lawyer (but did have a BS) going back to school to become a lawyer in this sort of practice?

 

As an attorney I would say no.  Law school is expensive.  There is a glut of lawyers.  It takes 4 years at night to finish law school (3 years for day).  And then there is the practice of summer internships, which are (at least in my day) how most people got their permanent jobs, so there is no such thing as "summer off."  The period from graduation until the bar exam (only a few months) is a 24/7 endeavor of studying and going to classes.  There is really no time for anything else.

 

The firm I worked at (a large corporate practice in a DC branch of a big NY firm) would never hire someone "older" as a first year.   And law school doesn't teach you law - it trains you how to think.  You would really need to work at a firm to learn the ins and outs of estates, wills and trusts before you could really go out on your own and do this.  And firm life is, I'm sorry to say, not really ideal for women with families.  You are nothing but a fungible billing machine, expected to bill 1900+ hours/year.  And you have to work a lot more than 1900 hours to bill that many.

 

The only people I recommend law school for are those right out of college (without spouses or children), those who have $100k to pay for the tuition (because if you are stuck with loans and hate it or can't find a job, that is a lot of money to pay back), and those who have a close family member who is a named partner in a thriving firm.

 

Sorry to be a buzzkill.

[Bambam]

3. <snip>. Most of where money is an issue for us is mostly psychological. We are not struggling or barely scraping by, but it is clear to me that DH suffers from the fatigue of bearing the major earning responsibility for all these years. Also, I do work PT, but it is as his secretary, so my earnings - piddly though they be - are still directly related to the success of his companies. So the burden is still his for the great majority of our income. So part of my interest in being a "real" earner is that I want to alleviate the pressure on him; he has been carrying it for too long as it is.

 

I'm asking questions here to help you think this through, I'm not looking for you to answer.

Have you asked your dh if he feels fatigued from bearing the major earning responsibility? What are his thoughts on this?

 

Your comment made me think, so I asked mine. We made the decision 19 years ago for me to quit a very nice job to stay home with our first born. Occasionally, I have asked if he thinks I should go back to work, but the answer has always been no, but I never thought about him possibly feeling burdened or tired of being the sole bread winner in our family. We had an interesting conversation. 

[Guest]

I think that is a really good point about school psych.

 

I think you need to think about how you want to work with kids. Do you want to be more of a tutor, seeing and working with a kid over a long period of time? Maybe seeing the same kids weekly?

 

Or are you more interested in figuring out what is needed, and making the plan, giving the guidance?

 

This is just my personal experience with school psychs, but they do not build a relationship with kids so much. They meet kids and do want to build a rapport. Maybe they try to meet kids a few times to build a rapport before they do the testing. Then they do the testing and write the report. Then they attend the IEP meeting. After the IEP meeting -- they probably don't really have much contact with that kid again for months or a year. Yes they get to see kids progress over time. Yes it is important. It is more getting to know new kids and doing planning, though, than being the one to build the relationship with the kids and actually do the tutoring/intervention.

 

If you worked privately or maybe at a school set up differently, then you can have freedom to work in a way you want, if you want to do the tutoring yourself also.

 

But it seems like the person with the expertise in planning is able to bill a lot of money for planning/testing/program design.

 

But then the person who actually does the tutoring or intervention is probably not the one to diagnose, and maybe/maybe not the one to comprehensively plan.

 

Like -- as a parent, maybe someone says "see this kind of tutor." And you are either the tutor. Or you are the person who says "I have a vision for what kind of tutor you need."

 

You might be happy either way, but there are times when people get bored doing the day-in day-out of tutoring and wish they had more variety (and in a sense -- probably wish they had more mental stimulation). And there are times people have a higher job but get frustrated because they don't have the time spent with individual kids and building relationships with them, that they really find fulfilling.

I thank you very much for typing this out, Lecka, because I had not thought through that question before, but as soon as I started reading this, the distinction became clear in my mind. I am more interested in diagnosing and recommending a plan of action. When my older son went to an educational services facility for evaluation, I thought, "I would like this job." I think the evaluator had a Masters in Education, possibly Special Ed. So, the woman was very compassionate, observant and astute at understanding my son's difficulties, but after conceiving a plan for him, her role is over. I'm good at creating a system or seeing what needs to be done in a given situation. I'm not as good at carrying a system out for a long time, especially in the part that relates to the variables in human behavior. (For instance, I would be horrified if a parent were unwilling to implement some sort of eye training system at home because they couldn't be bothered. Or if the kid were uncooperative and not willing to put effort into improvement.)

 

I also realize that I am a great soldier, but not a great commander. I am not an entreprenurial type. It's interesting; I work with DH in his businesses, which are contracting and property management. We are amazing complements to each other's skills. I hate conflict and confrontation. My worst nightmares are made up of calling a tenant and asking why the police were dispatched to the rental yesterday. DH doesn't mind this, but is *horrible* at keeping track of details like who is late and how much they owe. He's the leader and I'm the creator and sustainer of the systems that make the business run. But all dreadful conversations are managed by him! 😠So, in terms of ideal employment situations: I would do much better employed in an existing office where somebody else figures out the disgrunted customer or drumming up business. I think it would be much harder for me to be an independant tutor or something like that.

[Guest]

I'm asking questions here to help you think this through, I'm not looking for you to answer.

Have you asked your dh if he feels fatigued from bearing the major earning responsibility? What are his thoughts on this?

 

Your comment made me think, so I asked mine. We made the decision 19 years ago for me to quit a very nice job to stay home with our first born. Occasionally, I have asked if he thinks I should go back to work, but the answer has always been no, but I never thought about him possibly feeling burdened or tired of being the sole bread winner in our family. We had an interesting conversation.

Well, you'd have to know: DH is a very diligent guy. He will get up and go work for a living until he physically cannot anymore and would not ever say, "It's time YOU go earn." But I can tell it wears on him, and I can tell the big expenses of education are fatiguing for him. And I also don't want educational expenses to mean we can't do anything else, kwim?

 

I have not had a sit-down with him to converse about all of these thoughts I've shared here, but he does know I have notions of working when the youngest heads off to school.

[Lecka]

I have only lived places where the center you went to (it sounds like) would be two hours away. I don't know much about that kind of thing. Though I have been to one ;)

 

If you worked in a school, you might spend all day on Fridays in IEP meetings.

 

Hopefully you would have a mature and respectful relationship with the vice-principal, the speech therapist, the OT, the resource teacher, etc, and have a professional relationship with them.

 

Hopefully you would collaborate well with them.

 

That is probably the main thing.

 

Then you would probably have a rotating cast of parents coming in hour blocks (or more or less) all day on Fridays.

 

I am in my second school district that blocks out Fridays for IEPs.

 

You would probably be one of the main people communicating with parents at the meetings, but you probably wouldn't get to know them like the resource teachers.

 

Ime sometimes that means you might say difficult things so that people like the resource teacher can preserve their relationship with the parent.

 

Where I live now, it would be a pretty run-of-the-mill job in its way I think, at my daughter's school, because it doesn't house any special programs in particular.

 

My son's school has about 90 kids bussed there for the program my son is in, at a school of about 600. The school psychologist we saw there does a LOT with this group of kids.

 

Probably she wanted this job, though. I liked her and thought she did a good job.

 

But just by the nature of it I am sure she has a lot more unhappy parents.

 

I think it is a real thing that parents can hate someone who gives them bad news, and so it needs to not be the person (like the resource teacher) they need to have a good working relationship with.

 

It is the principal who might come in to give bad news, too; but I think it can be the school psychologist.

[Crimson Wife]

I thank you very much for typing this out, Lecka, because I had not thought through that question before, but as soon as I started reading this, the distinction became clear in my mind. I am more interested in diagnosing and recommending a plan of action. When my older son went to an educational services facility for evaluation, I thought, "I would like this job." I think the evaluator had a Masters in Education, possibly Special Ed. So, the woman was very compassionate, observant and astute at understanding my son's difficulties, but after conceiving a plan for him, her role is over. I'm good at creating a system or seeing what needs to be done in a given situation. I'm not as good at carrying a system out for a long time, especially in the part that relates to the variables in human behavior. (For instance, I would be horrified if a parent were unwilling to implement some sort of eye training system at home because they couldn't be bothered. Or if the kid were uncooperative and not willing to put effort into improvement.)

 

SLP wouldn't be a good career for you because of the bolded. You would be working with less-than-perfectly-cooperative children and, depending on the setting (school vs. hospital/clinic), flaky or even sabotaging parents.

 

I did some SLP observations at a school for the deaf in my region and there was a little boy with moderate hearing loss whose immigrant parents refused to get him hearing aids. Not because they couldn't afford the aids but because there is so much stigma in the parents' culture about deafness that they'd rather have the child not be able to hear properly than have the aids be visible (the in-the-canal aids wouldn't work for this boy's degree of loss).

 

I've been to several conferences in the last couple of years aimed at SLP's and audiologists that had presentations on how to encourage family follow-through so it's a fairly common issue.

[Lecka]

I think to some extent you either already have or would develop some compassion for kids and parents not being perfect. Nobody is perfect. There can be difficult situations.

 

Overall, at least. Probably you would have some situations that bothered you more, too.

 

If you have had a semi-tidy happy ending with your son with being 2e (for example) and having things go pretty smoothly with him and then a pretty good outcome -------- I think that is really good.

 

But I think getting into special needs there can be less tidiness and I think it might be different than your own experience, but I think people have a way of becoming more understanding then they expect sometimes.

 

For behavior issues -- right now a buzz word is PBIS. This stands for positive behavioral interventions and supports.

 

It is something you can google and see what you think. (Pbis.org)

Edited July 28, 2017 by Lecka

[sassenach]

If you dropped another class, would that mean you're doing one class this fall? That might work for still making some progress but also still having a lot for her.

 

I am leaning towards it myself, taking one class this fall and one or two in the spring.

 

I remember when I was dithering over beginning college at all (I was 38). I was walking with DH back from the mailbox, flipping through the community college schedule of credit classes. I had a hard time making that decision, too. But as I walked up our long driveway, I said something like, "I don't know...what is the reason to do it, really?" And DH replied simply, "Because you would love it." I think I needed that "permission" to do it because I loved it. 😊 i'm so grateful to him for saying that.

Yes, one class. In the fall. I think this sounds like a great plan for us both. Finish strong!!

[HSmomof2]

I haven't read all the replies, but I would strongly advise against spending the time and money on a psychology degree unless you are certain to go on for at least a Master's. Employment options for a bachelors in psychology are very limited, and the ones that exist are low paying and not great jobs. I have a bachelors in psychology. It was a very interesting degree to get and has helped in raising dc. But, it never helped me get a related job. It is helpful in my current position working in a library, but it didn't get me the job. I had planned to go to grad school eventually, but haven't. Out of my four friends I graduated college with, only one went on to get a Master's. She has a private counseling practice and loves it. The other three of us have worked in a variety of fields over the years, none related to our degree, nor was a degree even necessary for the work.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Bethany Grace

[marbel]

Well, you'd have to know: DH is a very diligent guy. He will get up and go work for a living until he physically cannot anymore and would not ever say, "It's time YOU go earn." But I can tell it wears on him, and I can tell the big expenses of education are fatiguing for him. And I also don't want educational expenses to mean we can't do anything else, kwim?

 

I have not had a sit-down with him to converse about all of these thoughts I've shared here, but he does know I have notions of working when the youngest heads off to school.

 

I've been thinking about this for a while today.  I understand the concern about having one spouse feel the burden for all the earning.  I think about it often, and throughout the years I've asked my husband what he thinks.  What he has communicated to me has been about like this:  yes, he feels the burden. Sure he does. But it is a burden he took on willingly when we had kids.  And he prefers his burden (earning) to the burdens he would have taken on if I had gone back to work before our kids are up and out, as long as I was happy with my burden of taking care of kids and home.  In other words, he has been happy with our division of labor, with my contributions being nonfinancial (freeing him up to focus on earning).   

 

Now, with both kids in community college and making their way forward, it makes sense for me to start looking for a job.  Whether I have the skills to get something decent, I don't know.  (Working on that now.)  I do know that there is no way I can even come close to replacing his salary, so he will still retain much of the earning burden no matter what I do.  That is just a fact and it's a result of the life we chose 20 years ago when I didn't go back to work after having a child.  After all this time, we haven't had the desire or need to change that, so we haven't.  

 

(I don't want to start a debate about whether or not it's good or healthy or manageable or whatever for both spouses to share the burdens of earning money and caring for the home/kids.  I know plenty of people do both.  I'm talking about my own husband and his feelings about the burden of earning vs. the burden of hometending.)

 

Just tossing that into the mix.  If it makes sense at all. 

[SeaConquest]

This post is timely for me as well. Count me among the other lawyers who didn't want to go back to practicing law. I've been knocking out prerequisites for nursing school since January, and I can tell you that going back to school and homeschooling has not been a walk in the park. My husband especially is having a very difficult time with me being away, or otherwise occupied, with school. Like you, we own our own business, and, although I am not an employee of the company, I normally do quite a bit to keep our household and business running smoothly. Because I am taking difficult lab sciences (for which online courses are not an option), and have to make high grades in all of them (nursing school in my area is ridiculously competitive), our family life has definitely suffered because of me. And, it will only get worse once I actually start nursing school and have to do 12 hour shifts in the hospital for clinicals. So, take my experience for what it is worth. Faster isn't always better. (I am honestly having one of those days where I am about to throw in the towel altogether -- a 16 week anatomy course smooshed into 6 weeks was not one of my better ideas. It might be my undoing).

[Guest]

I haven't read all the thread so bear that in mind.

 

I wonder what it is that makes some people who work in a particular job find it meaningful and others who work in the same job feel like they are wasting their lives. I'm serious.

 

I wonder if it has to do with how one finds meaning.

 

And that's all I have to say because we're watching a fun movie and the potty break is over.

[Guest]

I haven't read all the thread so bear that in mind.

 

I wonder what it is that makes some people who work in a particular job find it meaningful and others who work in the same job feel like they are wasting their lives. I'm serious.

 

I wonder if it has to do with how one finds meaning.

 

And that's all I have to say because we're watching a fun movie and the potty break is over.

I do think it has to do with how one finds meaning.

 

One thing I noticed this past spring, when my MIL was staying with us and my poor kitty was terminally ill, was that I find great meaning in caring for others. When my kids were dependant, I found great meaning in that as well. But my regular life with grown and older kids does not afford much of that to me.

 

So, it appears to me that assiting/helping someone/something that needs particular care is very gratifying to me. (I do think there is a limit to this, though; I don't think it would be gratifying to provide hospice-level care, say, or nurse a dying child.)

[BlsdMama]

I thank you very much for typing this out, Lecka, because I had not thought through that question before, but as soon as I started reading this, the distinction became clear in my mind. I am more interested in diagnosing and recommending a plan of action. When my older son went to an educational services facility for evaluation, I thought, "I would like this job." I think the evaluator had a Masters in Education, possibly Special Ed. So, the woman was very compassionate, observant and astute at understanding my son's difficulties, but after conceiving a plan for him, her role is over. I'm good at creating a system or seeing what needs to be done in a given situation. I'm not as good at carrying a system out for a long time, especially in the part that relates to the variables in human behavior. (For instance, I would be horrified if a parent were unwilling to implement some sort of eye training system at home because they couldn't be bothered. Or if the kid were uncooperative and not willing to put effort into improvement.)

 

 

 

Yes, when Ana was debating Masters programs she specifically liked School Psychology because she saw herself at the AEA/district level - assessing a child accurately and then handing off the day to day remediation to a special ed teacher.  She emailed a few counselors because she was considering an Educational Psych major.  They told her the Ed Psych degree was more of a fit for her doing the actual remediation rather than assessing.  If I picture this out of the general school setting, I think it would be a really great college/university arena job as well with more flexibility.  

Edited July 30, 2017 by BlsdMama

[Lanny]

If the Online courses from the university are Asynchronous, this would cut into your  sleeping, but I know a man who was in an Online Ph.D. program, from a university in North Carolina, and he got up at 3 or 330 each morning to work on that, when the house was quiet. He probably left for work at 630 in the morning, so probably had a couple of hours each morning to study?  Then, possibly during the day, you could get in some other time to study, that wouldn't cut into your HSing your youngest?  If the courses are Synchronous, that would be much harder to work around.

[Guest]

snip...

So, it appears to me that assiting/helping someone/something that needs particular care is very gratifying to me. (I do think there is a limit to this, though; I don't think it would be gratifying to provide hospice-level care, say, or nurse a dying child.)

 

And here is where I smile, because that space is exactly where one of my dear friends finds HER meaning.  :0)

[HSmomof2]

I have a psych degree, and it enabled me to get into the post grad special ed degree I'm about to start, without any ed quals at all.

 

 

Nothing is ever a waste :) So long as people know that to be a psychologist, you have to continue on to Masters, it's all good.

I agree it's not a waste. No education is a waste. But, in looking for specific employment opportunities, I think it's good to know a bachelors in psych is very limited without grad school.