Is Retained Reflexes woo?

[eternalsummer]

Every time I see something about retained reflexes I think, huh, wonder if my kid has a couple of those?  So I finally googled it and, I dunno, it just seemed kind of woo.

 

I looked for scientific evidence or controlled studies, etc., and couldn't find much of anything.  Am I just looking in the wrong places?  I'd think if something called a retained reflex, which could be corrected with certain exercises, really improved things like allergies and mood disorders, someone other than these websites that all seem to be associated with visual therapists but not with scientific journals would have studied it and published the results.

 

But I can't find anything either way.  Possibly I don't know the right terms.

[prairiewindmomma]

Drive by posting as I have to run out the door.....but there are studies out there, such as this one: 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3788695/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23659315

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25310229

 

Our anecdotal experience was that I resisted because I thought it was woo, but dang, I was never so happy to be proved wrong.  We went to a motor clinic last year with our dyspraxic, dysgraphic, visually-motor challenged kid and his BEERY scores jumped tremendously.  I was glad we had some concrete testing before and after---though we could see results in our kid by about 3 weeks in.

[Lecka]

Okay, it is one thing to say it improves scores on the Beery VMI. I can get behind that.

 

But allergies??????

 

I have not heard of that and it does not make sense to me at this time.

 

My older son has done them. He also has a history of being very delayed in crossing the mid-line. For example he learned to skip in OT when he was in 3rd grade and she worked on it with him for quite a while. He has a history of having an issue with eye tracking, too (also related to crossing the midline).

 

To me this is the kind of thing where it connects for my son to do some retained-reflex exercises.

 

But allergies I don't get.

 

I don't think it is quite fair to ask if something is woo when it would not seem woo in some certain situations with certain goals, and not promising a miracle cure.

 

That is different than when it will all of a sudden be a miracle cure for all kinds of random things.

 

So I think it is woo for allergies but not woo overall.

 

Edit -- at the same time -- I guess there are really people saying it cures allergies? Was that hyperbole?

 

And if not -- well, I don't think you are making it up, it is just bizarre to me.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Lecka

[Guest]

"Moro Reflex

The newborn’s higher centres have not yet developed enough to make a rational decision about whether a circumstance is threatening or not. It is protected by an involuntary “one reflex for all occasionsâ€, one set of physical and hormonal events which cover for most eventualities.

The reflex is set off by excessive information in any of the baby’s senses. For example, a loud noise, bright light, sudden rough touch, sudden stimulation of the balance mechanism such as dropping or tilting.

It is the earliest form of adrenal “fight or flight responseâ€. This response prepares for fighting or running and if not integrated leads to hyperactivity.

As the adrenal glands are a large part of our immune system; constantly being turned on can lead to adrenal fatigue and therefore asthma, allergies, and chronic illness.

Retained Moro Reflex may lead to:

Hypersensitivity to sudden noise, light or movement

Difficulty with new or stimulating experiences

Impulsive behaviour

Distractibility– has to pay attention to everything

Anxiety, particularly anticipation anxiety

Emotional and social immaturity

Sensitivity to foods or food additives

Inappropriate behaviour

Hyperactivity

Adrenal fatigue, leading to allergy, asthma or chronic illness"

 

Found here:

http://www.retainedneonatalreflexes.com.au/reflexes-explained/

 

And, no, other than what was linked by a previous poster, I did not find much else either.

 

That is a good question, Ananemone! Something I hadn't thought to look into.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Guest

[kbutton]

Not woo, but plenty of approaches to fixing them could be and finding a good practitioner to address them can be an issue.

 

We have had excellent results from working on them. Our experience was via vision therapy. It was life-changing for both of my kids. I think if it helps with mood, it's a secondary thing. Like, the kid is grouchy from being overloaded by __(whatever things is not being processed correctly)___. I have no idea where the allergy thing would come in, lol!

 

I have not read the studies posted above, but I'm glad to see someone posting studies. That encourages me. 

[kbutton]

I think I'd also like to note that it could be just one piece of the puzzle for kids. While my kids had life-changing results, reflex work has not changed the fact that we are dealing with (not all in one kid) ASD, ADHD, SPD (thought that's WAY better with reflex work), apraxia of speech, auditory processing disorder, LD-NOS (miscellaneous language issues), poor coordination (also better than it was after reflex work), visual processing issues, and a serious connective tissue disorder (which underpins some of the reflex issues and things like coordination and speech). The kiddo with the connective tissue disorder has had a lot of improvement through reflex work, but he'll still have life-long struggles with some of these issues. 

 

Sometimes reflex issues are the lion's share of problems, and sometimes, they allow improvement overall but aren't the only things going on. Sometimes, the reflexes are "small" but stand in the way of effective OT or PT if not remedied. 

[Lecka]

I am going to add -- my older son did it at school with a school OT and it was in his IEP.

 

I am not saying that is some kind of proof.

 

It is still a newer thing and a bit of a fad.

 

But the OT had just went to a higher-level training for it paid by the school district.

 

I hear about it more for autism, but my younger son with autism does not have any of the motor problems like some kids have.

 

For some kids I also think -- if it is calming, then that is a good result. It doesn't have to be a miracle cure to be a solid thing to do for some things. I mean "calming" in the sense of "a sensory activity that is calming."

 

My son with autism doesn't do it. It is just not the right fit for him.

 

My older son who doesn't have autism has the kind of traits where it can be helpful much more strongly!

 

It is just one of those interesting things.

 

Edit: my familiarity is all through school-based OT.

 

And also -- who knows -- maybe in 5 years I will say something different wrt my younger son.

 

I just know who the kids are where people have been told the OT thinks it is worth trying (if the parents have shared this info and I have heard it mentioned).

 

That is what I am going off of.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Lecka

[Guest]

The website in my post above links the Moro to adrenal fatigue, asthma, and allergies.

 

It is not something I have really spent much time on, other than things I have read here, so I can't speak one way or the other. Curious though!

 

And of course it would just be one piece to the puzzle.

[eternalsummer]

Okay, it is one thing to say it improves scores on the Beery VMI. I can get behind that.

 

But allergies??????

 

I have not heard of that and it does not make sense to me at this time.

 

My older son has done them. He also has a history of being very delayed in crossing the mid-line. For example he learned to skip in OT when he was in 3rd grade and she worked on it with him for quite a while. He has a history of having an issue with eye tracking, too (also related to crossing the midline).

 

To me this is the kind of thing where it connects for my son to do some retained-reflex exercises.

 

But allergies I don't get.

 

I don't think it is quite fair to ask if something is woo when it would not seem woo in some certain situations with certain goals, and not promising a miracle cure.

 

That is different than when it will all of a sudden be a miracle cure for all kinds of random things.

 

So I think it is woo for allergies but not woo overall.

 

Edit -- at the same time -- I guess there are really people saying it cures allergies? Was that hyperbole?

 

And if not -- well, I don't think you are making it up, it is just bizarre to me.

 

The first reasonable sounding site I clicked on from a google search was the minnesota vision therapy something and it had a whole list of things, including allergies and the like

 

That is what made me nervous about it - if no one was claiming that it cured all kids of things, I might be more inclined to accept what it does claim to do, but the miracle cure stuff makes it suspect.

 

This is the first google result for me: http://www.retainedneonatalreflexes.com.au/reflexes-explained/

 

These are on the first page of google results:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=17&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwintMSR2N7SAhXh1IMKHSPaApIQFghqMBA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.minnesotavisiontherapy.com%2Fprimitive-reflexes&usg=AFQjCNEEniwydHeDBbMDaMq1Kst_YTxFRA&sig2=eWGqdTdNsCYs2ZI_nYIreA

https://www.brainbalancecenters.com/blog/2014/09/retained-primitive-reflexes-sign-brain-imbalance/

 

etc

 

 

Thanks for the links, prairiewindmomma!  That is what I was trying to find but could not sort out.

[Guest]

Thanks for the links, prairiewindmomma! That is what I was trying to find but could not sort out.

There really isn't much info on any of these, though, and they don't touch on therapies.

[eternalsummer]

I admit that I have not read them yet :)

 

 

You'd think there would be a lot more extensive studies, though, for something that doesn't have side effects (presumably), actually resolves a situation instead of just treating it, and is effective for such a wide range of problems.

[Lecka]

Just for better googling, the programs that some people were trained in were Rhythmic Movement Technique (RMT), Brain Gym (I think), and then Bal-a-Vis-X. That is to some extent easier to harder, too, with overlaps. So am OT might have some training about all 3 and then pick what they wanted for a specific student.

 

That is how it was explained to me locally.

 

All of them have levels of training and stuff.

 

I used to live 2 hours from the main location of Bal-a-Vis-X so that is why it is popular where I lived. There are other programs that are similar but made by different people.

 

This is all brain integration type of stuff. Maybe only RMT is also retained reflexes, I am not sure.

 

The success stories I have heard wrt autism I think are solid, but they are not miracle cure stories. They are stories of some improvement in gross motor and/or sensory.

 

And I hear them with kids who had very noticeable gross motor difficulty. That is who sees the biggest and most obvious benefit, bc they can make a noticeable improvement. But it is not like -- everything is perfect.

 

My younger son doesn't have that kind of autism profile.

 

My older son has never been that severe, though he has qualified for school OT which means he has had someow scores, but there is a lot of degree there.

[Lecka]

I think Brain Balance centers overpromise their results for autism.

 

Yes the stuff they do that is the same as what school OTs do is good to do.

 

But I think they overpromise.

 

And then the "top link" website looks disreputable to me.

 

That is just my opinion, though.

[Lecka]

I went to an autism workshop two years ago where you could sign up for sessions, and they offered a session about RMT from a Level 3(?) trainer (maybe higher?). Then I talked to people who had gone to that session.

 

I also have heard OTs as speakers at an autism parent support group.

 

And then I have talked to my two sons' OTs.

 

And then heard some parents talk about it.

 

Edit: to me I would rather hear from an OT with 20 years experience who does various things, than someone who only does one system or only does brain integration. That is bc of my kids' OT goals though. This kind of thing would never be the main therapy goal for them, they have other OT stuff to work on and this is a little side thing.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Lecka

[Guest]

I admit that I have not read them yet :)

 

 

You'd think there would be a lot more extensive studies, though, for something that doesn't have side effects (presumably), actually resolves a situation instead of just treating it, and is effective for such a wide range of problems.

 

Which was why I found your question to be a good one :)

Edited August 17, 2017 by Guest

[Mom28GreatKids]

Ok, one of the OTs at our old clinic went to some specific training at some Russian sounding woman's clinic. . . I cannot find it or remember. Anyone know? Not woo. . . even our reg pediatrician believes it is a thing and she is a DO. We are still working on getting the school OT up to speed on it. DS has many. . . I think the allergy claim is akin to a chiro who believes she can cure cancer. Um. . . likely not. There are some people who can take anything too far. IMHO.

[Mom28GreatKids]

I think Brain Balance centers overpromise their results for autism.

 

Yes the stuff they do that is the same as what school OTs do is good to do.

 

But I think they overpromise.

 

And then the "top link" website looks disreputable to me.

 

That is just my opinion, though.

BBC makes me crazy because they do so much w/o a dx which is a disservice to kids who should have a paper trail. Plus it is crazy expensive (12k) for the same stuff you can get for free at school or privately through OT and paid for by insurance. And their people are generally untrained. I just want to scream when I hear their ads.

[PeterPan]

Ok, one of the OTs at our old clinic went to some specific training at some Russian sounding woman's clinic. . . I cannot find it or remember. Anyone know? Not woo. . . even our reg pediatrician believes it is a thing and she is a DO. We are still working on getting the school OT up to speed on it. DS has many. . . I think the allergy claim is akin to a chiro who believes she can cure cancer. Um. . . likely not. There are some people who can take anything too far. IMHO.

 

Of course it's a thing. Neurologists know about it. Go read the ALS thread we've got going. She's got Babinsky and my kid has babinsky. It's a known thing, a whole list of known reflexes. I've only had one OT out of 5 who had ANY training in retained reflexes, and although that OT had training (through level 3, sounded advanced), her understanding wasn't thorough enough. We're now using a PT who studied with neurologists.

 

If the lists the people are trained in are too short and their understanding too superficial, you'll work and still not get it done. It's a really frustrating topic, frankly.

 

We're seeming some pretty astonishing results with the reflex work.

Edited March 18, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[wapiti]

I haven't read the links and don't know when I might get around to it.

 

On the surface, the idea that fixing reflexes (which I have no issue with) might do something for *allergies* certainly comes across as woo to me.  In my world, the immune system has a huge effect on the nervous system, not the other way around.  However, what if there was a two-way street, as there are with other things (e.g. vagus nerve)?  That would be fascinating.  I haven't even figured out immune>nervous as that's extremely complex, and can't imagine what nervous>immune could even involve in terms of mechanisms.  (If I thought I could affect the immune system with a little OT, well sign me up, lol.)

 

Just thinking out loud; bigger fish to fry this morning as usual.  Carry on :)

[geodob]

About 4 or 5 years ago, I was interested in doing some research into the techniques used for 'retained reflexes'.

So that I looked at the different companies that offered training courses for the techniques.

But when I looked at their courses?  It involved signing a contract that stated that I would never describe the specific techniques used.  Verbally or in writing.

Which basically meant, that if I did any research into the techniques?

That I couldn't describe the techniques that I had researched.

So that anyone publishes research into the techniques, can expect to be sued for damages.

 

But the companies wont publish any research, as this would involve disclosing the techniques they use.

This is an example, of a corporation closing down research, so that only their 'product' is available.

 

Though Adrenaline isn't part of the Primitive Reflexes, as the brain isn't involved?

Along our Spinal Column, at each vertebra, we have a bundle of different nerve connections.

Which are called Ganglions.

With our CNS Central Nervous System, we also have a Peripheral Nervous System.

Where the Primitive Reflexes,  are the Peripheral Nervous System.

With each Primitive Reflex, located at a different Vertebrae Ganglion, along the spine.

 

(While other Ganglions along the spine, regulate different organs.  Such as our digestive system.)

 

Though Primitive Reflexes, need to be seen in the context of a baby developing its Peripheral Nervous System?

Where a baby doesn't lay motionless, and then notice an arm and try to move it?

 

Rather what they are born with?  Is a Reflexive nerve cell connection.

For example, when a babies cheek is touched.  A nerve signal is sent to the relevant Ganglion, that automatically /reflexively, sends signals to neck muscles. That cause the head to turn, to side being touched.

 

But if we look a bit deeper into this signal, that is being sent from the Cheek when it touched?

It actually involves 2 different types of 'Enzymes'.

To send a 'signal', each of these Enzymes build certain molecules, that trigger the Signal.

One molecule is Dopamine, which is signal that activates movement.

 

Then the second Enzyme, creates a molecule called 'Epinephrine'.

This signal, communicates a level of 'motivation'.

That will determine how quick the response is.

 

But what a baby is yet to develop, is the third Enzyme?

Which creates a molecule called 'Serotonin'.

This Enzyme uses Serotonin like a 'pause button'.

So that instead of baby automatically turning its cheek as a Reflex?

The Serotonin creates a pause. Which gives the brain time to come in and decide whether it will turn the cheek?

 

The ability to create Serotonin and keep it in place?

Is what actually 'Inhibits a Reflex'.

But this Inhibition, has 2 important parts?

One part, involves creating the Serotonin molecule.

Which is attached to a Neuron/ Nerve Cell.

 

But the second part of this?  

Is that the Serotonin needs to be removed from the neuron/ nerve cell, when its no longer needed.

Which another type of Enzyme does.

 

Though a problem can occur here, where the Enzyme removes the Serotonin too quickly.

Which creates problems.  As it only causes a 'temporary Inhibition'.

 

While we have this term of 'Retained Reflexes'?

It really needs to be looked at, at a functional level.

Where what is occurring, is that within certain Reflexes and their Ganglions?

With a Retained Reflex, their is a disruption of the Neurons/ Nerve Cells use of Serotonin.

 

Some links above, looked at an association between ADHD and Retained Reflexes?

Where the only difference, is that ADHD is occurring in the brain. While Retained Reflexes are happening in the Spinal Ganglions.

 

Yet the common factor, is that both are related to Neurons/Nerve Cells, and Enzymes work with Dopamine, Epinephrine and Serotonin.

With the medications for ADHD, it is the 3 above mentioned molecules that they actually effect.

 

So in terms of discussing the different ADHD medications?

Instead of using the names of different medications?

What would be more helpful, is to discuss them in terms of their 'actions'.

 

So for example, instead of simply saying that one is trying Adderall?

It might be discussed in terms of: 'a drug that increases the production of Dopamine and Epinephrine'.

To say that one tried Adderall and it wasn't helpful. Is meaningless?

 

But to say that one tried a medication that increased the production of Dopamine and Epinephrine, and it wasn't helpful ?

Would be more useful, in deciding which other medications to try?

[MistyMountain]

When I first heard it I definitely thought it was woo. They vision therapy place said ds had them and gave me these shaking exercises to do but I was really skeptical about how exercises like that could help and just did not take the time. I heard it described here sometimes and started thinking of giving it a better effort with my youngest who has motor coordination delays. It is taking her a long time to move on from some of the exercises but I am noticing slow progress. The teacher said that she is doing much better copying from the board and with handwriting. She seems to have more stamina. This weekend we were taking a walk through a snowy place with hills and uneven ground and she usually would be lagging way behind wanting to hold my hand because it was hard to walk and this time she was right there with all the other kids keeping up. So when it seems she still seems more uncoordinated then the others her age in martial arts there are improvements in coordination. I would be interested to see if her Beery results have improved. I know this is just anecdote of course. I believe it can help for the coordination and handwriting type stuff but not allergies or immune system stuff.

Edited March 18, 2017 by MistyMountain

[MerryAtHope]

I think the *main* use for exercises for retained reflexes is as *part* of the puzzle for various learning disabilities and things like vision therapy. For my son, it was crucial--he made no progress with vision therapy until he had worked through all of them, and he made incredible and fast progress after. Night and day difference--it was huge.

 

But, it was not the whole enchilada, or even half of it. It was part of peeling the onion (and even then, is the onion every completely separated into all its layers? I still find there are mysteries, but I watch him continue to grow--it's actually pretty amazing!). 

 

I'm sure that there are probably some kids out there for whom allergies etc... also got better. That makes sense to me--if the body's over-reaction to certain environmental factors was caused by retained reflexes. That's vastly different from saying the exercises will cure allergies, that retained reflexes are always the cause, etc... I think it's a huge blunder when companies and websites take anecdotal evidence and turn it around and try to apply it across the board, which is what I think websites like the one you came across are doing. That stuff you have to take with a grain of salt. It does make me distrustful of those companies and sites. 

[Guest]

At the OT center I'm looking at, most of the therapists have postgraduate studies and certifications in the main disorders found in those with neurodevelopmental delays. That’s what I am comfortable sticking with; what has studies backing it. Sensory integration is my main focus. I think retained reflex treatments have a long road ahead before becoming evidence based enough for me to consider them. I honestly don't see my kids as having challenges stemming from them anyway!

Edited March 18, 2017 by Guest

[MistyMountain]

Another victory! Just found her on top of a swinging rope ladder we have that she never attempted before.

[Lecka]

That is awesome!!!!!!!!

[matrips]

Ok, one of the OTs at our old clinic went to some specific training at some Russian sounding woman's clinic. . . I cannot find it or remember. Anyone know? Not woo. . . even our reg pediatrician believes it is a thing and she is a DO. We are still working on getting the school OT up to speed on it. DS has many. . . I think the allergy claim is akin to a chiro who believes she can cure cancer. Um. . . likely not. There are some people who can take anything too far. IMHO.

Regarding the Russian women name- Google MNRI therapy for it. See if that's the one.

[Kanin]

Feel free to ignore if this derails, but what about crossing the midline? Is that woo? Everyone talks about it and it seems reasonable enough... but do people research it?

[geodob]

Crossing the midline, is based on the established fact. That our entire right side, is controlled by the left side of our brain and vice versa.

We develop 2 primary cables to connect both sides, which are called Callosums.

One is for motor cortex, and the other for cognitive cortexes.

 

This enables coordination with each side, and they also establish a master/slave relationship. So that one side automatically takes the lead, with the other side in a supportive role.

[kbutton]

Feel free to ignore if this derails, but what about crossing the midline? Is that woo? Everyone talks about it and it seems reasonable enough... but do people research it?

 

For us, it was all stuff that went with the retained reflexes or the vision therapy tasks--having both sides of the body work together was the foundation for being able to move, and the reflexes were responsible for being able to cross the midline or not.

[Lecka]

My older son had OT for crossing the midline.

 

It is not magical stuff to cure allergies, either.

 

But I was surprised at how helpful it was. It just helped him a lot. A lot of physical things became easier for him. Swimming got a lot easier.

 

He had a "jump" in his tracking (when reading) that 2 different OTs could see with just looking at his eyes (at the midline) and a VT could also see it. I took him just for an evaluation at VT; and then did OT instead.

 

And he was losing his place when reading chapter books, and it did get better.

 

But I think a realistic result is saying "now he dribbles a ball going from left to right much better" and "now he can make his arms do a breadth stroke in swimming more fluidly." Or saying "now he can read chapter books because he isn't losing his place as his eyes across the middle of the page."

 

That is very different from promising an extreme improvement in autism symptoms, or to cure dyslexia.

 

At the same time -- it can help some kids in some ways. Definitely.

 

But will it cure dyslexia, autism, and ADHD? That is going too far.

 

Edit: and again, it is where kids are not doing it well that there is the most improvement. If you have a kid where there are noticeable signs of not crossing the midline -- then that is one thing. To generically recommend it to everybody I think is different.

 

I am the same with allergy diets. I don't understand why I should put my son on an allergy diet when he has no allergies nor possible allergy symptoms.

 

But I believe they are effective for kids who do have allergies or allergy-related symptoms that improve on an elimination diet.

 

But that doesn't translate to "now everybody with autism has to do this diet."

Edited March 21, 2017 by Lecka

[kbutton]

He had a "jump" in his tracking (when reading) that 2 different OTs could see with just looking at his eyes (at the midline) and a VT could also see it. I took him just for an evaluation at VT; and then did OT instead.

 

And he was losing his place when reading chapter books, and it did get better.

 

But I think a realistic result is saying "now he dribbles a ball going from left to right much better" and "now he can make his arms do a breadth stroke in swimming more fluidly." Or saying "now he can read chapter books because he isn't losing his place as his eyes across the middle of the page."

 

That is very different from promising an extreme improvement in autism symptoms, or to cure dyslexia.

 

At the same time -- it can help some kids in some ways. Definitely.

 

Those are the kinds of things we saw also. Behavior also got better, but it was largely behavior directly related to avoiding the hated task that was hard. (There were things that got better that we didn't realize were related until afterward, but it can be hard to predict those things ahead.)

 

I think it is very individual, but as Lecka pointed out with these specifics, the gains should be tangible in some way.

[Kanin]

The reason I ask is because I think a lot of midline exercises could be done at school.... just standing up and doing the exercises while doing something else, like math facts or letter sounds or whatever. Working on retained reflexes would not be possible but I could have kids up and moving! A couple of my most dyslexic students also have extreme trouble touching the right hand to the left knee, for example. It's not true for all of them, but for some. Just wondering if that sort of stuff is too woo for the classroom.

[PeterPan]

The reason I ask is because I think a lot of midline exercises could be done at school.... just standing up and doing the exercises while doing something else, like math facts or letter sounds or whatever. Working on retained reflexes would not be possible but I could have kids up and moving! A couple of my most dyslexic students also have extreme trouble touching the right hand to the left knee, for example. It's not true for all of them, but for some. Just wondering if that sort of stuff is too woo for the classroom.

 

Some midline work can be very calming and centering for kids. Reflex work, on the other hand, is a lot of input for kids who have sensory issues, so it can be arousing or agitating.

[Lecka]

No, it is not too woo for school at all. Is there an OT where you work? Sometimes they make cards for kids they have to be able to do exercises at times through the day.

 

There are things I think you could just do, too, without an OT.

 

When you have the kids who have trouble with the reaching, they might have something where they would qualify for OT and then that could be a goal.

 

I say that -- but I know it is really hard to qualify for OT.

 

Edit: other things to look for are sitting or leaning to a side when reading, or turning their head when reading. It can be to avoid crossing the midline while reading. That is something my son was doing anyway. He still wants to do it now in 6th grade, but it is not as bad as it used to be At All.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Lecka

[Kanin]

Yup, we have an OT - I should ask her about some things I could do. I'm glad it's not "Too Woo For School," which sounds like a book title!

[MistyMountain]

My dd does those type of things in school with her OT. I think midline crossing stuff or even bal a vis is fine for school.