WWYD - possibly conduct disordered child

[Seasider]

I am concerned about a child in my co-op class who is unlike any child I've ever met.

 

(edited to remove specific details of behaviors)

 

Edited November 29, 2015 by Seasider

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The spree part would be all I needed to know, to not let this situation continue as if it's going to work itself out.

 

Boys playing guns normally -- that does not phase me, even though we're definitely not a gun household. It's just so normal and typical. You know what I mean? They're laughing and joking, chasing each other on the playground being cops and robbers or superheroes.

 

The mannerisms and vocabulary terms as part of the "play" are something else. The other parents do not want their children sitting there while he does that, at the very least.

[Seasider]

Yeah, Tibbie, it was the words that did it. As a mom of boys I've seen lots of shooting play, but this was different and sent a chill right through me.

[TechWife]

I don't have any specific advise on how to work with this  young boy.  I just want to encourage you that the mom likely is working on these types of things with the child at home. With deeply ingrained behavior, there is no easy answer and sometimes it can be quite a long process. Do keep in my that the mother isn't obligated to share what goes on in her home with you as well. If she says she's working on it, trust her. Whether or not that means he can stay in the co-op is an entirely separate issue. 

Edited November 24, 2015 by TechWife

[TechWife]

I do also think that this needs to be effectively addressed. I don't think a homeschool co-op is the best place to do it, though. 

 

Can you refuse to have the child in your class? The environment needs to be one where everyone can feel safe and be safe. 

Edited November 24, 2015 by TechWife

[Gil]

Following. Not to this degree, but my youngest son is going through...something. Recently he is behaving drastically different then his established personality and mannerisms.

 

If I didn't know any better, I'd say mine was experiencing manic episodes or something.

 

I have no idea what is going on with him, but if anyone has a suggestion or lead, please say.

[TammyS]

The thing about being on a killing spree, I'm guessing, is designed to unnerve you (you did say he was intelligent and calculating). 

 

I would not even begin diagnosing him in my mind.  Whatever his issue may be, that's not your job.  What I WOULD do is:

 

1. ignore his "attitude", it's too subjective to try to work on

2. make 2 requirements for him continuing to participate: 1. his mom must sit in on all future classes, so that she can observe and you can direct him to her if any behavior comes up 2. for him, have a zero tolerance policy for direct defiance: that is, if he ever says "no" to an instruction again, he's out, for the rest of the year, period.  It doesn't matter how small the issue is, it just can't be allowed to continue.  It will build up to something....at the very least making each week a misery for you.  Not acceptable.

3. I would let the director of the co-op know that if my conditions weren't met, that I would not be teaching this class any longer, starting immediately.

[Seasider]

I do also think that this needs to be effectively addressed. I don't think a homeschool co-op is the best place to do it, though.

 

Can you refuse to have the child in your class? The environment needs to be one where everyone can feel safe and be safe.

This is what I think it will come to. I just have a lot of compassion towards this kid. I am afraid of him being kicked out of every group he's a part of, then being left alone with parents who won't deal with him. Sandy Hook, y'know? (Please understand that's my over active imagination, but yeah, my mind went there.)

 

It's true that this class is not the place to deal with it, I do understand that. I think I needed a gut check with y'all and to see if anyone has advice from dealing with such a situation.

[lllll]

nm

Edited December 2, 2015 by ^ 022

[Seasider]

Following. Not to this degree, but my youngest son is going through...something. Recently he is behaving drastically different then his established personality and mannerisms.

 

If I didn't know any better, I'd say mine was experiencing manic episodes or something.

 

I have no idea what is going on with him, but if anyone has a suggestion or lead, please say.

Hugs, Gil. You are taking a great first step by being attentive. Hope you get some good insight here, too.

[HomeAgain]

I'm taking a deep breath here.

 

As I read your post, I saw my child clearly through the eyes of someone else.  And I am sorry.  From what I have learned about my own child:

 

-he is self-aware, but hasn't developed the empathy or social awareness needed for large groups.  He simply doesn't care.  This works well in his favor when it comes to negative peer pressure, propaganda, and internal drive, but poorly when it comes to positive peer pressure, imposed consequences, and thinking about group needs.  It takes specific bullet points of what will/won't happen to have successful outings, and even then it's not always successful.  Routines are very, very much our friend, too.

 

-he's probably highly gifted.  A lack of engagement means he.will.not.engage, nor will he encourage anyone else to join into "baby stuff".  He doesn't see the point.  Case in point - I have taken my child to the same activity for the past 3 years, hoping at one point he would join in.  He has done so exactly twice: the first time when he met with an expert in the field, and the second when it engaged a different part of his brain.

 

-he's a watcher.  He *knows* and sees every detail, but I'll be darned if he will engage unless it's to be disruptive or to follow his own rules if he doesn't have an outline of what will/won't happen.

 

 

I do not have any help for a teacher in a co-op class, except to keep these three points in mind and make a plan that builds on his strengths - but that's tailoring a class to one and really not a wise idea unless you can differentiate.  But I sympathise, it's not easy reaching a child like this and keeping them an active participant.  Child #1 was so much easier. LOL  He was very compliant and helpful and just wanted to make adults proud and happy.  That has its own difficulties, but I was at least prepared for them before this child went the complete other direction.

[Aiden]

I'm not certain I would allow the child in my class again at all, based on the spree behavior. If I did, it would be under the conditions TammyS mentioned: Mom or Dad in class with him at all times, and the very first time he said "no" or didn't do as told, he's out.

 

And if anything even remotely similar to the spree behavior occurred again, he's out immediately--no more chances. I'm pretty sure my kid wouldn't be in any classes with him either.

 

I do feel sorry for his parents. Even if mom is in denial and not doing anything about it, she's aware and worried. But the safety of the class comes first, and the spree behavior calls that safety into question enough for this kid's needs to go way on the back burner.

 

He doesn't hurt animals, does he? Honestly, that would fit with this pattern of behavior.

[38carrots]

He sounds to me like a highly gifted child who is bored beyond his wits in your class. He doesn't want to be there and he probably doesn't have a choice, and he's rebelling. Maybe he is even hoping to be disruptive enough to be "suspended", hence the "killing spree."

 

I wouldn't immediately think that there's a mental disorder. The class is too boring for him and he doesn't see a reason to fake it, like most bored kids who care about "consequences" or who want to be in teacher's "good books."

 

Why is he in this class? What does his mother want to achieve?

[trulycrabby]

Following. Not to this degree, but my youngest son is going through...something. Recently he is behaving drastically different then his established personality and mannerisms.

 

If I didn't know any better, I'd say mine was experiencing manic episodes or something.

 

I have no idea what is going on with him, but if anyone has a suggestion or lead, please say.

I think you should start a new thread with this question, as it might get lost in the dialogue, yet is urgent enough that it needs to be addressed. :grouphug:

[Corraleno]

As I read through the first 3 or 4 paragraphs I was thinking it sounded very much like an Aspie I know who is highly gifted but was kicked out of two different schools for noncompliance. He was (still is) very resistant to any kind of authority figure (including his parents, this is an ongoing issue at home, too); no one can make him do anything he doesn't want to do, and no consequences matter to him. But at heart he's a really sweet kid, he just has huge anxiety issues and a strong need to control everything in his environment and never ever cede control of anything to anybody. I'm sure he can also come across to adults as if he feels like he's superior to them, or to other kids, but really he's just very very aware that he's different from everyone else, not "better." Meds are helping a little, but progress has been really slow. I feel for his parents, who love him to bits and are doing everything they can, but just aren't getting very far. I do suspect that things might have been a bit easier if he had been evaluated earlier and there had been more structure and clear boundaries when he was very young, but there's really no way to know for sure.

The part about the "killing spree," though, I find really disturbing. That's not something the child I know would have ever ever done, even though he does play some pretty violent video games. I hope the parents of the boy in your class really are taking this seriously and are getting him the intervention he needs, because this isn't something the child will just "grow out of." I think that's kind of what my friends were hoping would be the case with their son, but things have only gotten worse (in terms of noncompliance, he's totally nonviolent). What a difficult situation for everyone involved.  :sad:

 

[Haiku]

I have a child who had behavior issues, so I am not unsympathetic to the child and his parents. But I also have kids without behavior difficulties, and I have to say that a child who consistently disrupts the class should be removed. His parents should be notified that on the next occurrence of such behavior, he is done with the class, with no more chances. It is not fair to the other children to have their experience of class diminished by a child who is not benefiting.

[gardenmom5]

I agree he needs a psych eval. (I have an aspie who also has some odd, so I'm sympathetic - but this kids desperatly needs intervention.)  i also think the home needs to be eval'd to what he is exposed for media.

Edited November 24, 2015 by gardenmom5

[Haiku]

I have no idea what is going on with him, but if anyone has a suggestion or lead, please say.

 

I would start with a trip to the pediatrician, where you plainly spell out the behavior differences and your concerns.

[Farrar]

It sounds like he's very smart but lacking in any sense of empathy - he doesn't care about you or his classmates and thus his only motivation is to avoid punishment and amuse himself since he's likely bored much of the time.

 

Depending on the age, he may grow up and find his way to empathy. It's pretty normal for young kids to struggle at least a little with that, though this seems like another level.

 

I would just have a no tolerance approach to this kid. He needs super clear boundaries. There can't be second chances at this point. I am usually not like that about kids - I tend to think a gentle approach is best, but this is a class that is completely optional to his life and he's disrupting it for others. I don't think it's appropriate for his mother to sit in - I suspect he'd find a way to manipulate that. Instead, I'd make it a condition of the class that his mother be on call to take him during the class because you'll be removing him every time he refuses to do something, picks on another kid, has an outburst, etc. Gone. Bye. Hope you can come back next time with a better attitude.

[Catherine]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-home-is-not-democracy/201306/is-my-child-sociopath

 

I think some of the points made in this article are excellent.  In case you choose not to read, I'll summarize that children (particularly young ones) are very plastic, that kids who appear to have sociopathic traits can go on to be OK as adults, and that conduct disorder is NOT a life sentence or an immutable part of a child's character. So I will be a somewhat dissenting voice here and point out that zero tolerance, moral judgement and rejection\isolation are not going to be in this boy's best interests.  Of course you have the rest of the class to consider too.  But I assume you are talking about grammar stage children here.  Unless he is bullying, he probably is doing no harm to the other students in the class.  

 

So I would err on the side of talking to Mom, telling her exactly what you are observing, and including\engaging him as much as you can.  Give him something hard to do.  

[gardenmom5]

It sounds like he's very smart but lacking in any sense of empathy - he doesn't care about you or his classmates and thus his only motivation is to avoid punishment and amuse himself since he's likely bored much of the time.

 

Depending on the age, he may grow up and find his way to empathy. It's pretty normal for young kids to struggle at least a little with that, though this seems like another level.

 

I would just have a no tolerance approach to this kid. He needs super clear boundaries. There can't be second chances at this point. I am usually not like that about kids - I tend to think a gentle approach is best, but this is a class that is completely optional to his life and he's disrupting it for others. I don't think it's appropriate for his mother to sit in - I suspect he'd find a way to manipulate that. Instead, I'd make it a condition of the class that his mother be on call to take him during the class because you'll be removing him every time he refuses to do something, picks on another kid, has an outburst, etc. Gone. Bye. Hope you can come back next time with a better attitude.

 

with super clear cut boundaries - that means you have to give explicit instruction of expectations to him.  so clear cut, blunt, explicit, etc.; you'll feel like a horrible person and that you're treating him like he's stupid or something. (aspies can be socially clueless - not because they're being obstinant - but becasue they don't "get it".)  you'll feel like you're lecturing.  make sure the child is looking at your face while speaking to him - he can't be looking elsewhere.

and I agree - if he's disruptive 10 minutes before class is out - then he leaves 10 minutes early.  his mom does have to be onboard to help.  there are things he likes doing at home - and SHE needs to be willing to have consequences at home.

Edited November 24, 2015 by gardenmom5

[Farrar]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-home-is-not-democracy/201306/is-my-child-sociopath

 

I think some of the points made in this article are excellent.  In case you choose not to read, I'll summarize that children (particularly young ones) are very plastic, that kids who appear to have sociopathic traits can go on to be OK as adults, and that conduct disorder is NOT a life sentence or an immutable part of a child's character. So I will be a somewhat dissenting voice here and point out that zero tolerance, moral judgement and rejection\isolation are not going to be in this boy's best interests.  Of course you have the rest of the class to consider too.  But I assume you are talking about grammar stage children here.  Unless he is bullying, he probably is doing no harm to the other students in the class.  

 

So I would err on the side of talking to Mom, telling her exactly what you are observing, and including\engaging him as much as you can.  Give him something hard to do.  

 

I don't think people should be zero tolerant in his life in general. But this is a single homeschool class where he's not fitting in. If this was school, I'd advocate a somewhat different approach, but for one class with a non-professional teacher, that's likely just enrichment to his academics? I think it's a mistake to let him continue to disrupt the room - it's letting him continue to have this bad habit and set those behaviors.

 

Like I said in my post, most kids struggle with this - it sounds extreme, but I totally agree with you it could just be a phase or he may mature a little and realize what a jerk he was when he was younger. That wouldn't surprise me. What would surprise me would be if this class was somehow instrumental in his turnaround, which is why I think it's okay to draw a much clearer boundary line.

[albeto.]

So I will be a somewhat dissenting voice here and point out that zero tolerance, moral judgement and rejection\isolation are not going to be in this boy's best interests.  Of course you have the rest of the class to consider too.  But I assume you are talking about grammar stage children here.  Unless he is bullying, he probably is doing no harm to the other students in the class.  

 

I agree with this assessment. Most of his behaviors sound disruptive and non-compliant. I'd ask him quietly and respectfully what he wants. If you (the OP) can accommodate his desires, do, and if you can't, explain why and then go about what you need to do matter-of-factly and without emotion. All behavior serves a function, and assigning intent (not remorseful, no morals, wants to inflict fear, etc) is generally unreliable with regards to understanding and addressing challenging behavior. Instead, I would start to keep a mental log of his actions, with specific attention on what happens just before (a written one is even better, but I'm trying to be realistic to the situation). Writing down this information gives a much more reliable indicator of intent, as well as an understanding of atypical child behaviors, but even a mental log should help.

 

If I were to observe this child, I might consider this behavior functions to express a difficult emotion, "letting off steam," if you will. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but some kids express negative emotions with disruptive behaviors. If you can predict it, you might prevent it. 15 minutes before the end of the class, you might consider offering a particular responsibility for him to do, something that is challenging and yet rewarding for him. Perhaps the next time the class meets, there is a quick reference to that job/project. While this may appear to be rewarding negative behavior, in reality it's rewarding socially appropriate behavior (working without disruption).

 

I agree a comprehensive evaluation is a good idea. It sounds like this poor kid is struggling terribly, and is solving problems no one else sees in the best way he knows how. If you can find one or two of those problems in your classroom, you might be a beacon of security for him. In short, I would encourage you to consider his challenges to be problem identifying and solving in effective, socially appropriate ways, not a moral or sympathy deficiency. 

[zoobie]

I would suspect he's gifted, bored, and potentially has other issues happening. As a layperson teaching a homeschool co-op class, I would not be equipped to handle his needs. After the "spree" incident, I wouldn't be inclined to have him back in class. Setting that aside, a parent would need to be sitting in class or right outside the door to remove him when necessary.

[Seasider]

Sorry I haven't come back to this thread before now. I was waiting for time to get on my laptop since I can't multiquote on the phone. Yesterday was crazy busy and same today. I will come back in detail Friday.

 

I just wanted to let you all know I've read all the replies and appreciate each one - your insights are valuable, thank you.

[73349]

Here is me with my parent hat on: :hat:  As the parent of exactly the sort of kid who would be manipulated into following him and picking up the undesirable behaviors, I would want this handled promptly. Nobody is learning what s/he is supposed to be learning in this scenario. If he is acting up with even 30 seconds left in class, he should be sent out. That doesn't mean this kid doesn't need compassion, but it does mean that *disruptive* noncompliance can't be allowed. Letting him try again next week is cool as long as disruptive behaviors can be cut off immediately. I think having the director or parent out in the hall to listen for trouble may be necessary.

 

 

Teacher hat:  :biggrinjester:   I agree that it needs to be clear with mom & the student what he is supposed to be getting out of this class experience. Is he getting it? Does he like it enough to play along well enough not to ruin it for the others? If not, it's time to just drop it, unless mom has suggestions for something that will work better. But if he is more motivated to seek attention that to do what the class is about, there's a limit to what you can do, unless there is a reward/consequence connection. (E.g., I recently found a way to stop my own kid from screwing around during his piano lessons, as he had been for several weeks: by reminding him that I could hear everything he was doing and that my phone has a timer feature, and informing him that he would have to pay me back for every minute he wasted during his lesson. Instant.cure.)

They might like the book Social Rules for Kids, if they're not already familiar with it, or the mom might want to look into Zones of Regulation. 

[kathkath]

I might try to engage him in being my helper, in being an expert. Perhaps you can give him some extra high level learning to do outside class and have him come present/"teach" what he has learned. Help him to be a positive leader not a negative leader. It is not your place to diagnose. He probably has these patterns elsewhere so wouldn't it be great if you offered an alternative to help him be successful?

[gardenmom5]

 

They might like the book Social Rules for Kids, if they're not already familiar with it, or the mom might want to look into Zones of Regulation. 

 

is the book something kids can read - does the parent need to work with them?

I'm assuming the zones curriculum needs the parent to work with them.

 

I don't mean to derail - but have a question.

we're starting capdots - apd therapy.  how intense are the above?  I'm just wondering how intense I want to get with him while he's doing something else - but he really needs to work on social skills.

[73349]

is the book something kids can read - does the parent need to work with them?

I'm assuming the zones curriculum needs the parent to work with them.

 

I don't mean to derail - but have a question.

we're starting capdots - apd therapy.  how intense are the above?  I'm just wondering how intense I want to get with him while he's doing something else - but he really needs to work on social skills.

 

Social Rules could be read by a middle elementary student, and the content would be good for anyone up through middle school. I've put it into our school basket and am reading it to DS, one page a day, although I think he could probably read it himself. Each page explains one rule. It is quick and easy; no exercises or anything. There have been a few things that don't really apply to him (like how to text your friends), so I've skipped them.

 

Yes, Zones is meant to be taught in a classroom setting, but can be taught by the parent also. More involved/requires some preparation. The idea is that the child learns to assess his own feelings and behaviors and how to make good choices.

Edited November 26, 2015 by whitehawk

[Laurie4b]

This is what I think it will come to. I just have a lot of compassion towards this kid. I am afraid of him being kicked out of every group he's a part of, then being left alone with parents who won't deal with him. Sandy Hook, y'know? (Please understand that's my over active imagination, but yeah, my mind went there.)

 

It's true that this class is not the place to deal with it, I do understand that. I think I needed a gut check with y'all and to see if anyone has advice from dealing with such a situation.

 

I want to caution you against jumping to conclusions, while not discounting your gut. People's gut can be right, but when confronted with unfamiliar behavior, we can connect dots that aren't necessary. 

 

 Do you really know that his parents aren't dealing with him? How do you know? If you are wrong about that, you are adding to the parents' burden. Parents whose kids have invisible issues (ie you can't see what it is that is driving his behavior) have the burden of trying to get help for their child and they have the burden of being socially isolated because people are silently or not so silently judging them as they try to cope.  

 

Since you can't hear tone over the internet, I am saying this gently: do you realize that you are telling the story in such a way that you are the good guy (the one with compassion) and the parents are the bad guys (they won't deal with him)? That is not a helpful dynamic. It's much better to assume that they are doing everything they understand how to do right now, that they may be befuddled themselves, and that any professionals they have consulted may not have been particularly helpful. 

 

I think the "I'm going on a killing spree" warrants intervention. It is possible that it is meant to be intimidating; it is also possible that it's an expression of the child's anxiety about violence in our society. Obviously (I hope it's obvious) the action  chosen would be dependent on what he was actually expressing. It would be entirely appropriate for the co-op director to tell the parents she's not equipped to figure this out and ask them to take him to a professional to determine how to respond to that. The co-op's response can then await professional counsel. 

 

Honestly, most of those behaviors sound like a gifted kid. They can be a pain in the neck, but you are older and wiser, if not smarter;)

 

If he continues in your class,  I would simply observe the pattern of behavior to him ("It seems like most classes x, y, and z happens.".) and ask him for his take on it. Kids much younger than he is can tell adults significant things about their behavior. Also engage him in problem solving about it. You have needs, he has needs, the other kids have needs. All those should be taken into account.  It often helps with kids like this if you spell out the reciprocity. "Johnny, I always treat you with respect and kindness and I so I am expecting that you will treat me with respect as well. There is a problem because at the end of class, I need the class to do _____ and when you _____ that doesn't allow the class to accomplish our goals."  That kind of thing is helpful to kids because it spells out the social contract for them.  Just don't drag it out into a speech! (We adults are so tempted in that direction. Make it a quick statement and confident expectation. 

 

The intervention you choose will vary depending on what he is getting from the behavior. You could do anything from allowing him to "do his own thing" (read, draw, etc) the last 10 min of class as long as it's not disruptive if he's been generally cooperative the first segment.  You could have the director come by those last 10 min and kind of hang out near the classroom so that if he starts, he can immediately be passed off to her. You could have his mom pick him up early. You have lots of choices. (I may not have named them correctly for your situation. My point is that if you start to think outside the box, you will find that you are not "stuck" with him disrupting the last 10 minutes with the only alternative being that he is asked not to be in the class. People get "stuck" when they only have 2 alternatives. As soon as you think of a 3rd, you're on your way to a solution.) 

 

Hang onto your compassion and your desire to help this kiddo and try to curb what you call an "overactive imagination" on your part. That part is going to get in the way of handling this productively. 

[HomeAgain]

 

 

I think the "I'm going on a killing spree" warrants intervention. It is possible that it is meant to be intimidating; it is also possible that it's an expression of the child's anxiety about violence in our society. Obviously (I hope it's obvious) the action  chosen would be dependent on what he was actually expressing. It would be entirely appropriate for the co-op director to tell the parents she's not equipped to figure this out and ask them to take him to a professional to determine how to respond to that. The co-op's response can then await professional counsel. 

 

There is also a third - he is seeking power.

 

My kid announced he wanted to be Lucifer last weekend.  Very nonchalant, just like "hey, this would be a great occupation when I grow up." To a person who doesn't know him it can sound a bit........Addams Family-ish and creepy.  To those of us who do, it requires looking at the total context.  Low empathy + tired of being the one who can't make the decisions.  To him, Lucifer is great.  He makes people do all sorts of things.  He could make us do what he wants for a change.  My first thought in the OP's classroom was this kid was so darn bored he just wanted to make the class be over.  For good.

[gardenmom5]

I want to caution you against jumping to conclusions, while not discounting your gut. People's gut can be right, but when confronted with unfamiliar behavior, we can connect dots that aren't necessary. 

 

 Do you really know that his parents aren't dealing with him? How do you know? If you are wrong about that, you are adding to the parents' burden. Parents whose kids have invisible issues (ie you can't see what it is that is driving his behavior) have the burden of trying to get help for their child and they have the burden of being socially isolated because people are silently or not so silently judging them as they try to cope.  

 

Since you can't hear tone over the internet, I am saying this gently: do you realize that you are telling the story in such a way that you are the good guy (the one with compassion) and the parents are the bad guys (they won't deal with him)? That is not a helpful dynamic. It's much better to assume that they are doing everything they understand how to do right now, that they may be befuddled themselves, and that any professionals they have consulted may not have been particularly helpful. 

 

I think the "I'm going on a killing spree" warrants intervention. It is possible that it is meant to be intimidating; it is also possible that it's an expression of the child's anxiety about violence in our society. Obviously (I hope it's obvious) the action  chosen would be dependent on what he was actually expressing. It would be entirely appropriate for the co-op director to tell the parents she's not equipped to figure this out and ask them to take him to a professional to determine how to respond to that. The co-op's response can then await professional counsel. 

 

Honestly, most of those behaviors sound like a gifted kid. They can be a pain in the neck, but you are older and wiser, if not smarter;)

 

If he continues in your class,  I would simply observe the pattern of behavior to him ("It seems like most classes x, y, and z happens.".) and ask him for his take on it. Kids much younger than he is can tell adults significant things about their behavior. Also engage him in problem solving about it. You have needs, he has needs, the other kids have needs. All those should be taken into account.  It often helps with kids like this if you spell out the reciprocity. "Johnny, I always treat you with respect and kindness and I so I am expecting that you will treat me with respect as well. There is a problem because at the end of class, I need the class to do _____ and when you _____ that doesn't allow the class to accomplish our goals."  That kind of thing is helpful to kids because it spells out the social contract for them.  Just don't drag it out into a speech! (We adults are so tempted in that direction. Make it a quick statement and confident expectation. 

 

The intervention you choose will vary depending on what he is getting from the behavior. You could do anything from allowing him to "do his own thing" (read, draw, etc) the last 10 min of class as long as it's not disruptive if he's been generally cooperative the first segment.  You could have the director come by those last 10 min and kind of hang out near the classroom so that if he starts, he can immediately be passed off to her. You could have his mom pick him up early. You have lots of choices. (I may not have named them correctly for your situation. My point is that if you start to think outside the box, you will find that you are not "stuck" with him disrupting the last 10 minutes with the only alternative being that he is asked not to be in the class. People get "stuck" when they only have 2 alternatives. As soon as you think of a 3rd, you're on your way to a solution.) 

 

Hang onto your compassion and your desire to help this kiddo and try to curb what you call an "overactive imagination" on your part. That part is going to get in the way of handling this productively. 

 

I really have to agree with the bolded.  I've so btdt with dudeling.  I've had people come up to me and tell me I was the problem.  honestly - they didn't know what the heck they were talking about.  I will always remember the look on one person's face when they found out what dudeling's diagnosis was.  they were pretty embarassed too. and has been FAR more polite ever since.  and another who every other week or so would try to give me a referral to some parenting classes for __ type children.  I'd just roll my eyes.  not sure what happened, but then one day she came up to me and was gushing about what a great job I was doing with him . . . .

 

eta: he's made a LOT of progress.  some days I just have to remember where he started, and where he's at now.  

 

Edited November 27, 2015 by gardenmom5

[Seasider]

Thanks so much to all who contributed to this thread. I also apologize to those who may just now enter and see the OP redacted; I felt it best to remove the details.

 

Your input has been very helpful. Your insights helped me this week as I communicated with the co-op director and she with the parents. I intended to multiquote and respond to many posts individually, but have decided to just share some info in a more general way.

 

The child is indeed highly gifted, something the parents have been aware of but hadn't directly shared, so several of you called that correctly. 

 

There have been misbehavior and attitude issues in the past that have been handled in a surface manner (addressing symptoms but not necessarily the cause). However, there apparently has been a sharp escalation (at home and in other settings) in disruptive and concerning behavior, including lack of empathy, and the parents seem to finally understand the need to seek professional assistance, and are acting to do so. So, I feel a great sense of relief for the student.

 

As for co-op, he will be taking a break from class while the sorting out of his needs gets underway. It has been made clear to the parents that he is welcome back in/after January if that is what ends up being the recommendation, and as long as he understands and chooses to comply with what's expected of him. And I admit that I am glad for this, too. It will be easier to wrap up the semester without discipline distractions, but satisfied he knows that he's not entirely unwelcome. I am thankful for a great director who did an excellent job of both working with the parents and balancing the needs of the others in class (and teachers!).

 

Sorry I can't provide any more specifics, but again, your input has been very helpful in a number of ways. Thank you, I appreciate you all!

[TechWife]

It sounds like your co-op director handled it well! 

[Seasider]

It sounds like your co-op director handled it well! 

 

She did, and I'm really grateful for her tact and wisdom.

[38carrots]

There is also a third - he is seeking power.

 

My kid announced he wanted to be Lucifer last weekend.  Very nonchalant, just like "hey, this would be a great occupation when I grow up." To a person who doesn't know him it can sound a bit........Addams Family-ish and creepy.  To those of us who do, it requires looking at the total context.  Low empathy + tired of being the one who can't make the decisions.  To him, Lucifer is great.  He makes people do all sorts of things.  He could make us do what he wants for a change.  My first thought in the OP's classroom was this kid was so darn bored he just wanted to make the class be over.  For good.

 

Or the forth--at this point he'd say anything to get out of this class. The words are terrifying and it is easy to jump to "needs nterventions", but the reason might be entirely innocent. I think an intervention focused on those words is a mistake.