Singapore math - which edition do you use?

[Maleka]

Hi,

We currently use Saxon but I am considering switching to SM.  Which edition do you use and why?  I don't care if it is CC aligned.  On the Singapore website it lists CC, US and Standards.  I'm sorry to ask such a basic question but what is the difference?  

 

Also, I'm looking to only move if we can go all the way through HS with it.  It seems like people move onto DM, is that a complete curriculum to get my son through HS and into college?

 

Any and all input is appreciated!

 

[acsnmama]

I don't know about DM, but there was a recent post saying that there are only 2 levels of DM that don't be discontinued, I may be mistaken!

 

As for the edition, many prefer the Standards, the HIG is somewhat better. The lay out and teaching tips. There are a few extra topics and the workbooks have extra practice pages.

 

With all that said, I have used both but prefer US edition.

[Rachel]

I'm using the Standards edition.  I chose based on recommendations on this board and I like it so far, my 6 year old is about to start 1b.

[daffodil]

We use Standards.

[Ad astra]

I'm using the Standards edition. I chose based on recommendations on this board and I like it so far, my 6 year old is about to start 1b.

I'm using the Standards for this reason.

[mamaraby]

We use the US edition for reasons I don't remember.  I'm sure there was some logic to my pick four years ago, but at this point your guess is as good as mine.  I'm stubborn enough that I'm not changing at this point even if a whole bunch of folks here think Standards is better. lol

[Ad astra]

Same here. US, but I don't remember why.

Perhaps because US edition is much cheaper? :) It was not an easy decision for me. Wish I knew more detail to justify the difference in price.

[melmichigan]

I use the Standards Edition because of the HIG's.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I started with Primary Math 3rd Edition with my first dc (in 2001) because that was the only thing available at the time.  It had Singapore money (ie. 20c coins), and Singapore measurement (metric only), and Singapore notation (commas instead of decimal points), and Singapore fruit, and Singapore people names.  It was fun and exotic, and not too difficult to adjust to our US needs.

 

The US Edition came out a few years later, and I switched because it had US money and notation.  It added English measurement, but kept the metric (which I like).  It also mixed in some US fruit and children's names, but kept the exotic as well.  It kept the sequence of 3rd Edition, so I was able to use my old textbooks.  I just bought US edition workbooks.  I also bought the Home Instructor Guides for Level 4 and up.

 

Standards came out a few years later.  It kept the same content as the US edition, but changed the sequence to line up better with the sequenced used in the US textbooks (California, to be specific).  I didn't switch.  I was (and I still am) comfortable with the sequence presented in the US edition.  Besides, Standards Edition cost twice as much as the US Edition, and I would have had to buy everything new to make it work.  I already had the textbooks and the Home Instructor Guides for the US Edition, so I stayed with that. 

 

To be honest, I've been out of the loop and didn't realize that the CC edition was now available.  I'm curious, and I'll look at it sometime, but I probably won't switch.  I'm now on my third trip through the US Edition, with my 3rd child.  It works for us.  No need to fix it.  

 

If I were coming into it now, with all the options available, I'm not sure what I would do.  Probably Standards, but I'd have to look at CC as well.  Not very helpful, sorry.

 

My dd went from PM 6B into Video Text Algebra.  It starts with Pre-Algebra, and goes straight through Algebra 2.  If she had stayed home, she would have gone onto Video Text Geometry, then community college for higher math.  

 

HTH.

[Maleka]

Thanks everyone for your replies and honesty!  It isn't clear on the website really what the difference is and I appreciate your reasons and the information.  I don't switch curriculum without much study and thought so all of this helps.

[Heathermomster]

We use Standards based upon what I read on the WTM.

[Jane Elliot]

I've used the primary, u.s., and standards edition and prefer the standards edition because of the HIG's. You should know though that it is in the process of being replaced by the common core edition and will probably only be available for a few more years.

 

eta: I should clarify. When I e-mailed to ask when HIGs for 6A and 6B standards edition would be available, I was told there wouldn't be any. I asked if they were phasing out the standards edition and they said it would be available for "at least a few more years." I can't find the original source that caused me to ask the questions but the responses indicated that it's being replaced.

[Heathermomster]

I've used the primary, u.s., and standards edition and prefer the standards edition because of the HIG's. You should know though that it is in the process of being replaced by the common core edition and will probably only be available for a few more years.

 

eta: I should clarify. When I e-mailed to ask when HIGs for 6A and 6B standards edition would be available, I was told there wouldn't be any. I asked if they were phasing out the standards edition and they said it would be available for "at least a few more years." I can't find the original source that caused me to ask the questions but the responses indicated that it's being replaced.

I hate this.  If Singapore is supposedly superior to whatever is being taught in a US classroom, shouldn't the classroom materials be lifted up instead of dumbing Singapore down?  uh,,,,,

[SevenDaisies]

I hate this. If Singapore is supposedly superior to whatever is being taught in a US classroom, shouldn't the classroom materials be lifted up instead of dumbing Singapore down? uh,,,,,

This is what Jenny from Singapore Math said back in late February:

"US edition is not changing. Standards edition is not changing. There will be a new Core Edition. 3 editions to choose from. Not all states have an adoption policy. California did not adopt for various reasons, partly because there was content not in Common Core at that grade level or the material was not arranged in the same clusters as common core standards. To remove that content completely or change the progression though would create something that is no longer Primary Mathematics in any way and might or might not be a successful math series."

 

I started with US 1 and moved to Standards because of the HIG. I do like that there is also more review available.

[Heathermomster]

Whew! That's a relief. Thank-you for the clarification.

[swainsonshawk]

I used US edition for my oldest two kids, then switched my third and fourth over to standards.  I switched to standards for the HIG and also for the extra review.  I never use the HIG guides now, though, but I do love the extra review.  I think that the extra review adds a lot to the the program.  I always had to add extra to the US edition. (people use the Intensive practice, challenging word problems, extra practice books for more review, but I just made up my own extra problems!)

[Coco_Clark]

US edition: Cheaper.  A bit more "streamlined".

 

Standards edition: More review.  Better HIG.  

 

CC: No idea, never seen it.  

 

 

 

I'm actually giving MIF a try this coming year in the hopes that its easier to implement, but I did enjoy PM.  I would strongly suggest Standards edition for a kiddo coming from Saxon (and therefore used to A LOT of review).  Neither edition has even half the review of Saxon but US edition has almost none.  And I did hear *somewhere, maybe here?* that high school was being discontinued, as the Singapore sequence does not match the US sequence.

 

 

[Ad astra]

US edition: Cheaper. A bit more "streamlined".

 

Standards edition: More review. Better HIG.

 

CC: No idea, never seen it.

 

 

 

I'm actually giving MIF a try this coming year in the hopes that its easier to implement, but I did enjoy PM. I would strongly suggest Standards edition for a kiddo coming from Saxon (and therefore used to A LOT of review). Neither edition has even half the review of Saxon but US edition has almost none. And I did hear *somewhere, maybe here?* that high school was being discontinued, as the Singapore sequence does not match the US sequence.

When you say Standards has more review than US edition does, do you mean its workbook? I'm asking because I have a Standard textbook and don't think there's much review in it, either. If I'm using only the textbook, but not the workbook and HIG (I have a strong math background and supplement TB with other materials), would you still recommend Standards?

[gardening momma]

We use the US edition for reasons I don't remember.  I'm sure there was some logic to my pick four years ago, but at this point your guess is as good as mine.  I'm stubborn enough that I'm not changing at this point even if a whole bunch of folks here think Standards is better. lol

Same here. 

[NittanyJen]

We used the US Edition levels 2--5 before moving on to level 7DM (which we love-- I just bought up levels 8--10DM and Additional Math before the last 3 go out of print).

 

I like that the US Edition goes to 2-tone instead of staying full-color at level 3; my son was less distracted. I liked the larger emphasis on metric.

 

There is a phenomenal amount of review in the US Edition-- assuming you use both the text and the workbook. Both contain multiple review sections per chapter. Beyond that, in the word problem sections, everything already learned is used in the word problems from that point forward, so if you do all of the word problems, the material is never lost in the first place and the need for review is negligible. If you have learned measures or fractions, they appear in every single section of word problems after you learn them, so when will the student forget?

 

For those who need more practice, you can add in the additional practice or challenging word problems books, or for an advanced student, the intensive practice book.

[stripe]

I hate this. If Singapore is supposedly superior to whatever is being taught in a US classroom, shouldn't the classroom materials be lifted up instead of dumbing Singapore down? uh,,,,,

 

Buy the third edition (original from Singapore) if you want "authentic." They no longer use it in Singapore, though. It's been changed quite a lot.

 

[ETA: I have the first 3 years or so of the 3rd edition because I wanted the Singaporean version! I wanted curry puffs and durians and so on. But I ended up not really using the program after all.]

[SemiSweet]

I started with US and switched to Standards, I much prefer standards, the layout, the reviews and the HIG are a better fit for us. We also use a bit of Challenging Word Problems and Intensive Practice.

[librarymama]

We started with Standards for 1a/b and loved the HIG. I then switched to US for 2a/b and we've enjoyed it just fine. I can't remember now why we switched, but it has worked well for us. 

[Heathermomster]

Buy the third edition (original from Singapore) if you want "authentic." They no longer use it in Singapore, though. It's been changed quite a lot.

 

[ETA: I have the first 3 years or so of the 3rd edition because I wanted the Singaporean version! I wanted curry puffs and durians and so on. But I ended up not really using the program after all.]

I just want it with a pretty paper lantern and prawns. :rofl:

 

I've already purchased math for the year..I will not change...I will not change...

[Coco_Clark]

When you say Standards has more review than US edition does, do you mean its workbook? I'm asking because I have a Standard textbook and don't think there's much review in it, either. If I'm using only the textbook, but not the workbook and HIG (I have a strong math background and supplement TB with other materials), would you still recommend Standards?

Yes, I mean the workbook. Honestly? If someone wants to use just the textbook and not the workbook or HIG I wouldn't suggest PM at all. I don't think the program was meant to be used that way. And I do think its nearly impossible to teach "the Singapore way" without the HIG unless you yourself were taught Asian math as a child.

 

I know many people just use sections of the Singapore PM series along with lots of other things, but then they aren't really doing SINGAPORE. They are doing their own mash. Which is perfectly fine, obviously.

[Jane Elliot]

So what do all you who are going with the Standards edition plan to do when you get to 6A/6B and there's no HIG? I'm kind of in this pickle right now with my 6th grader. I'm also wondering what I'll do in a few years when standards isn't available anymore for my current 1st and 4th graders. Will you switch to something else at that point or buy everything ahead before it's discontinued?

[Coco_Clark]

I was told Standards would continue to be available when I emailed the company earlier this summer.  

 

As for what do do after 6b...I can't tell you. We jumped ship in 2b.

[Jane Elliot]

I was told Standards would continue to be available when I emailed the company earlier this summer.  

 

As for what do do after 6b...I can't tell you. We jumped ship in 2b.

 

Did they say for how long it will be available? The e-mail they sent me made it sound like it would only be a few more years. I need it for the next  5 years at least.

 

I already know where we'll go after 6B, so that's not my issue. Making it through 6A & 6B without the standards HIG (which I've been relying on greatly) is my issue. There won't be a HIG for 6A & 6B standards, and that's where I'm stuck now. I think I'll be using primary math for 6A&6B, but I'm a little nervous about it because I do rely on the standards HIG's a lot.

[Ad astra]

Yes, I mean the workbook. Honestly? If someone wants to use just the textbook and not the workbook or HIG I wouldn't suggest PM at all. I don't think the program was meant to be used that way. And I do think its nearly impossible to teach "the Singapore way" without the HIG unless you yourself were taught Asian math as a child.

 

I know many people just use sections of the Singapore PM series along with lots of other things, but then they aren't really doing SINGAPORE. They are doing their own mash. Which is perfectly fine, obviously.

 

Thanks for your explanation. I guess I could've chosen TB in any edition, then.

 

Yes, I was born and raised in East Asia, studied engineering there and came to the U.S. last year, so I'm quite familiar with this method. Actually, I have a hard time imagining what is the American "non-Singapore" way to teach math because I have zero experience at American K-12 schools. :)

[SevenDaisies]

So what do all you who are going with the Standards edition plan to do when you get to 6A/6B and there's no HIG? I'm kind of in this pickle right now with my 6th grader. I'm also wondering what I'll do in a few years when standards isn't available anymore for my current 1st and 4th graders. Will you switch to something else at that point or buy everything ahead before it's discontinued?

There is a teachers guide for 6ab, but I have heard that there is a lot of review in 6, so I am hoping to do without. I did purchase workbooks for each level for my younger two just in case they discontinue standards.

[Seeking Squirrels]

We're using Standards. It seemed to be the more recommended here and I had to pick one, so I jumped. I've never seen US to compare.

[NittanyJen]

Yay, I just got a biiiiiig box in the mail :D  Already had DM 7, that's what DS10 is using now, so the box had DM8, 3, & 4 (series used to be 1--4) and Additional Mathematics :D :D :D.  We are set for the younger dude!

 

(plus two more boxes full of the chem lab I'm going to teach alongside Life of Fred Chemistry woot!)

 

 

[Maleka]

Thank you everyone for your input!  I have an additional question.  Our son is going into 4th grade and is currently doing Saxon 6/5.  Due to the advanced difficulty of Singapore and his placement scores we will back up some.  My question is do I need the teachers guide?  Will I be able to do the program with just the textbook, workbook and HIG?  The TG is quite expensive and I don't mind spending the money (especially in higher grades) but I'm a CPA by trade and am thinking I can save a few dollars?  Any thoughts?

[Ad astra]

Oh no, you don't need the Teacher's Guide. I believe that's for the school teachers teaching in classroom setting. What homeschoolers use is the HIG.

[Jane Elliot]

There is a teachers guide for 6ab, but I have heard that there is a lot of review in 6, so I am hoping to do without. I did purchase workbooks for each level for my younger two just in case they discontinue standards.

 

I was wary of the tg for 6ab standards because it was written by a different author and seemed to be aimed at classroom teachers. The price tag is insanely prohibitive, especially considering that it seems SM is showing every indication it will be discontinuing standards anyway. I'm not one who usually worries about price tag much, but if the tg is not as user friendly as the hig's and the workbooks won't be available by the time my younger two need them, then that's a lot of money to sink.

 

I think I'll go ahead and use 6ab primary edition (eta: I mean U.S. edition) since the tg that goes with it is written by the same person who wrote the hig's for standards. When I've used 6ab primary in the past, I've had to enlist dh for help, but I didn't have the tg back then. (I can't remember why. It may not have been available then.)

 

And I think I'll do what you did and purchase workbooks for my youngest two because I do think standards will be discontinued before I'm finished with them.

 

 

 

[shortcake3000]

I used the Standard Edition for 2nd grade, the US Edition for 3rd grade.  I preferred the Standard Edition and will be switching back this year. I just htought it was organized better between the HIG and the student books.

[gardening momma]

Thank you everyone for your input!  I have an additional question.  Our son is going into 4th grade and is currently doing Saxon 6/5.  Due to the advanced difficulty of Singapore and his placement scores we will back up some.  My question is do I need the teachers guide?  Will I be able to do the program with just the textbook, workbook and HIG?  The TG is quite expensive and I don't mind spending the money (especially in higher grades) but I'm a CPA by trade and am thinking I can save a few dollars?  Any thoughts?

I use U.S. edition & no teacher's guide. I work through the problems with my kids if they need help, or if they are able to do it without me, I work through them--mentally or on paper, as needed--when I check their work. I don't really know what's in the teacher's guide besides answers, but I figure I need to do the work myself anyway--my math has gotten very rusty. I plan to do the same all the way through high school--I do occasionally check answers at the back of the book (for books that have answers). I just got Lial's Prealgebra & Introductory Algebra (one book) to use after SM 6 a & b. I started working on it myself last night.

 

Life without answer keys... http://homeschoolmath.blogspot.com/2006/07/life-without-answer-keys.html

[gardening momma]

 

I think I'll go ahead and use 6ab primary edition since the tg that goes with it is written by the same person who wrote the hig's for standards. When I've used 6ab primary in the past, I've had to enlist dh for help, but I didn't have the tg back then. (I can't remember why. It may not have been available then.)

 

And I think I'll do what you did and purchase workbooks for my youngest two because I do think standards will be discontinued before I'm finished with them.

Primary? All 3 editions are Primary Mathematics. Did you mean U.S. Edition? (there is also Standards and Common Core Ed.)

[Jane Elliot]

Primary? All 3 editions are Primary Mathematics. Did you mean U.S. Edition? (there is also Standards and Common Core Ed.)

 

Yes, I meant the U.S. edition.

 

[aprilleigh]

My understanding, from those who have gone through all six levels of the Standards Edition, is that the missing HIG for 6A/6B turned out to be less of a problem than they were expecting, because they were used to the Singapore way of doing things by then. I hope they're right, because I'm determined to finish the series with DS.

 

Someone recommended reading Elementary Mathematics for Teachers (Parker and Baldridge) as a good way to immerse yourself in the Singapore method so you wouldn't really need the HIGs. The best part is it's only $29.00 - less than the price of HIGs for one year.

[Heathermomster]

Someone recommended reading Elementary Mathematics for Teachers (Parker and Bald ridge) as a good way to immerse yourself in the Singapore method so you wouldn't really need the HIGs. The best part is it's only $29.00 - less than the price of HIGs for one year.

Did you read the book? If so, please share your opinion.

[skueppers]

I use the U.S. Edition. I used Math in Focus for 3B because I happened to get it nearly free from another homeschooler, but have gone back to the U.S. edition this year.

 

I seriously considered the Common Core edition, but decided to stick with the U.S. edition. (And no, as far as I could tell, the Common Core edition wasn't "dumbed down.")

 

Honestly, the main reason I went with the U.S. Edition was because I wanted answer keys, and didn't want to buy any form of teacher's guide. I was tired of solving all of my kids' math problems every time I checked large amounts of their work on Sunday evenings. Which I realize is lazy of me, but it was particularly irritating on the days when I solved the same problem more than once because I forgot what the answer was the first time.

 

I did seriously consider creating my own answer key for the CC edition...

 

As a side bonus, I get to re-use my daughter's US Edition textbooks with my son this year.

[meena]

I started with US and switched to Standards, I much prefer standards, the layout, the reviews and the HIG are a better fit for us. We also use a bit of Challenging Word Problems and Intensive Practice.

:iagree:  This is my exact experience.

 

As far as going through high school, it seems like from what I've gleaned reading on these boards that not many people use/like DM. I could be wrong and will gladly take correction. It seems that many depart from SM after 6.

[ElizabethB]

I use the Standards edition because the HIGs are better and there is more review.

 

I bought the teachers manuals for 6a and 6b but they were worthless, the previous HIGs were much better. The teachers manuals were really long and did not explain very much at all about how to teach the math, just classroom activities for the most part. When I had questions, I went back to my 5a and 5b HIGs or ahead to the corresponding section in my Dolciani Pre-Algebra book. Once I had to Google a good explanation.

 

I like Singapore's upper level math if you are sure you plan to homeschool through high school. But, we might not homeschool high school so I switched to the American math sequence in case we did not homeschool high school. Singapore's upper level math combines Algebra and Geometry in a different sequence that does not align with the American math sequence. You get it all done by the end, but the sequencing is different.

[aprilleigh]

I haven't read the book, but the description on the website explains why it was recommended for that purpose. I will likely purchase it with the next set of books for DS if i haven't found a library copy before then.