SoCal Sandra Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I will be attending a Classical Conversations information meeting and plan to invite my friends. Before I invite my Catholic homeschool friends, I would like to know if they would find anything objectionable in the materials that CC uses or in the CC program itself. I have one Catholic friend who uses Sonlight and another who thinks it's objectionable, so I realize opinions differ among individuals. I know that CC uses the Veritas Press history cards and I seem to recall differing opinions on those. I'd appreciate any comments on the VP cards as well as CC in general. Also, I plan to invite some homeschool families that are Messianic Jews. Is there anything about CC that they might find objectionable? TIA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhsmommy Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 No, I would not be offended in any way at all. I had a "Christian" friend look shocked that I covered Middle Ages/Martin Luther with my children. I know what our family believes in and feel our children have a firm foundation. I am also open to thoughts and conversations. We use the classical format but also include Rod & Staff, Apologia along with Seton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laylamcb Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 We participated in CC one year, and there were a couple of Catholic families in our group. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinLover Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I have not personally seen the Veritas Press history cards, but I do know some Catholic families who will not use VP materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockala Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 but i am unfamilar with the product. maybe if you can fill me in I can help. We find ourselves moving toward a more hebrew style as MJ and so for us prefer not the greek method of teaching. We are usually more community based and getting back to our bibilical roots. Kathy:001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessMcG Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 If they are interested, they should check it out. I was raised Catholic and I have not come across anything offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laylamcb Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I have not personally seen the Veritas Press history cards, but I do know some Catholic families who will not use VP materials. I certainly understand that, but in CC the kids only memorize what is written on the front of the cards. I'm trying to remember, but I don't think that there's anything objectionable on the front of the cards. Now you could certainly quibble over what topics/people/events are chosen for a card, I suppose (that is, one might disagree that something is worthy of emphasis).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 For the Messianic family I think there are a few things, but it is really up to the individual family and what they are willing to put up with. If there are any holidays like Christmas and Easter celebrated they may find that to be objectionable and studies of Martin Luther may be an issue since most messianics are aware of the horrible things he wrote about the Jews and how his writings helped influence the holocaust. I would still invite them and just say you don't know what, if anything, would be objectionable. I think they could make a decision on their own. They would know what they are. I'm sure they are used to watching out for things. It really wouldn't be any different than stuff they would have to watch out for when they purchase regular Christian materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueinNC Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 The material itself is not objectionable (except if you go into the VP cards in depth which is not done in any of the groups I attended). But, in our first group, one mom made the statement that Catholics are not Christians during her devotion time. Her devotional topic was about the Russian Dolls that stack. That was my first wake-up call on how some non Catholic Christians feel about Catholics in the homeschool community. We had a wonderful director who talked to each class individually about the comments made by that mom. Had the mom that made the statement not have been the only mom that thought that way, it would have been very uncomfortable to stay with that group. Will the other members in your group welcome Catholics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimnactmom Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I was shocked to find out that MANY in the Southeast do not consider Catholics to be Christian. I had never heard of such a thing until we moved down here. I thought all Protestants and Catholics fell under the umbrella of Christianity, thereby making all Christians. Reactions to having Catholics and Messianic Jews included in your group may depend on where people are from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayt ul-Hikmah Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 If your friends are at all like me, I doubt they would find an invitation so such an event offensive or objectionable. As a Muslim in the US, I am often invited to things that I don't think are appropriate for me to attend. However, I always appreciate the invitation. If it were me, I'd invite them. Give them a heads-up about the content (a website or brochure they could preview?) and maybe the crowd, but definitely invite them. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 If you want to offend Jews calling people who believe Jesus was the Messiah (and are therefore "Christians") "Messianic Jews" is an outstanding way to accomplish the task. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 (edited) As a side note: Wow, I must hide under rocks. What did Martin Luther write about Jewish people that influenced the holocaust? But, Bill, aren't they Jews by heritage? Messianic Christian Jews? After all, the early church would have had many Messianic Jews who were Christians..... Thus...."Jews for Jesus"??? And, since these are Messianic Jews, I'm not thinking that Christmas or Easter would be a problem for them. To answer the Catholic part of the question: VP would not usually be something that an observant Catholic would want to support $$$ wise. Vp sees the Reformation as positive. Perhaps if the Catholic likes the Reformation...that wouldn't be a problem. The fronts of the card, really only has that part as a "problem", I think. I also know that there are varying beliefs in CC about Catholics and their beliefs...and how they line up with Christianity. SO, perhaps it's not that each person is thought of as "not a Christian" but rather that some of the Church's beliefs don't match up with a Protestant's understanding of Scripture. I, for one, would be fine having Catholics in our group. We have many different beliefs...denominations...and political views represented in our group. Carrie:-) Edited May 4, 2009 by NayfiesMama Saw Bill's comment:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehogs4 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 (edited) we're heading into our third year of CC, and from my perspective, CC is very christian, and identifies key historical splits and major historical events that lead to the rise of protestantism, but they are just facts...not things that should be "offensive" to catholics. they are important for all christians to know, whether they are catholic or protestant in their theology. if they are looking for catholic theology, cc is not the place to, but it does not de-emphasize or invalidate catholocism. i cannot see how a messianic jew would be offended by CC's curriculum. their motto is "to know god and make him known." what is offensive about that? i will add that our group had a non-christian family join our group this year primarily because of the classical model, and they didn't make it two months in the program. by november they had decided that the heavy emphasis on the christian perspective was not palatable to them and the left the group. i would pray and discern, as well as talk to your friends and let it be known where CC stands. my mama always said, "it never hurts to ask" and let them decide for themselves. Edited May 4, 2009 by Hedgehogs4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveBaby Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 And, since these are Messianic Jews, I'm not thinking that Christmas or Easter would be a problem for them. Actually, the few Messianic Jews that I know of do not celebrate Christmas or Easter. It's not part of God's plan outlined in Leviticus or Deuteronomy as commanded high or holy days, so it wouldn't be part of their Holy Day calendar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Messianics do not celebrate Christmas or Easter because of the pagan origins of the holidays. Most believe that Jesus was born around the time of the Feast of Tabernacles in the fall and not at Christmas and they observe his resurrection during Passover which isn't always in line with Easter. Most people don't know about Luther's later writings. Hitler got his writings and basically followed them. His work is entitled On Jews and Their Lies. Here is a copy of it: http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm If you don't want to read it here is a synopsis on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Oh and if your friends are christian Jews then they will not have a problem with being called Messianic Jews. Non christian Jews are the ones who find it offensive. If you would like to know why you can go to here and listen to these lectures. They are very informative. http://torahanytime.com/rabbi_singer.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Actually, the few Messianic Jews that I know of do not celebrate Christmas or Easter. It's not part of God's plan outlined in Leviticus or Deuteronomy as commanded high or holy days, so it wouldn't be part of their Holy Day calendar. I was not meaning to say that I know they would celebrate the holidays, but rather that they would be willing to acknowledge the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus. (Yeshua) Carrie:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2abcd Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 We had a family who called themselves Messianic Jews with us in CC and they had no problems with the content. They also celebrate Christmas and Easter (Christians are in a new covenant relationship and celebrate the fulfillment of the OT prophecies.... including the day of Resurrection and the birth of the Savior.) As far as Luther-- he wasn't perfect and never claimed to be:o) But he did have some wonderful insights that have helped countless people over the years. Luther never intended to start a new church, but wanted to help the Catholic church. I think most people who categorize themselves as you've said wouldn't have issues with CC. It's worth an invitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pammy Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I am used to discussing the differences in Reformed Theology since I have used TOG for so long. I don't have a problem with celebrating the birth or resurrection of Yeshua, but we don't do Santa and easter bunnies. So basically, from my POV, I am a Christian who happens to be married to a Jew who was radically saved and we celebrate the traditions of the early Christians (who were Jews)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pammy Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Messianics do not celebrate Christmas or Easter because of the pagan origins of the holidays. Most believe that Jesus was born around the time of the Feast of Tabernacles in the fall and not at Christmas and they observe his resurrection during Passover which isn't always in line with Easter. Most people don't know about Luther's later writings. Hitler got his writings and basically followed them. His work is entitled On Jews and Their Lies. Here is a copy of it:" BUT there are many Messianics who do observe Christmas and Resurrection Sunday ( I don't call it Easter), in terms of what they mean as Christians. We do acknowledge the history of the pagan roots and how the church tried to keep these holidays from being secularized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I was involved in the messianic movement for 7 yrs and most messianics that I knew didn't celebrate Christmas and Easter. But I was also involved in a congregation that had more Messianic Israel Alliance leanings and those that I met in that absolutely did not celebrate either of those holidays. We talked about Jesus' birth during tabernacles and we celebrated Hanukkah and we observed his resurrection during Passover which in some years fell a month after Easter because it was calculated using the 14th of Nisan and Easter uses the ancient pagan fertility festival calculations based on the vernal equinox. Also the messianics that I know do not believe he resurrected on Sunday but on Saturday instead. I just brought these up as possible issues since she was concerned. I would still invite them, but I just wanted to make her aware of some issues that they might have. If they don't care about the things mentioned, then I'm sure they'll enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Non christian Jews are the ones who find it offensive. Hugely offensive. So offensive that it makes mild-mannered people enraged when they hear it said. I can't begin to tell you all how badly this use is taken by Jews. Frankly, I can not believe I keep seeing the term used here on the WTM when it causes such deep and understandable offense and shows our Jewish brothers and sisters a complete lack of respect. If a person believes Jesus was divine he or she is a Christian. Fine. No problem. But said person is no longer practicing the Jewish faith, and to call such people Messianic Jews is deeply insulting to practicing Jews (who are themselves "messianic"). Bill Edited May 5, 2009 by Spy Car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in VA Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Hugely offensive. So offensive that it makes mild-mannered people enraged when they hear it said. I can't begin to tell you all how badly this use is taken by Jews. Frankly, I can not believe I keep seeing the term used here on the WTM when it causes such deep and understandable offense and shows our Jewish brothers and sisters a complete lack of respect. If a person believes Jesus was divine he or she is a Christian. Fine. No problem. But said person is no longer practicing the Jewish faith, and to call such people Messianic Jews is deeply insulting to practicing Jews (who are themselves "messianic"). Bill Deep and understandable offense, Bill? Is there any topic that you won't post about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Bill I understand how offensive it is to Jews. I just recently found that out. That is why I posted that link to Rabbi tovia Singer because he explains why it is offensive. But that being said Messianic Judaism is a christian denomination just like baptist, methodist etc. That is what they call themselves and that is why she called them that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimnactmom Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Hugely offensive. So offensive that it makes mild-mannered people enraged when they hear it said. I can't begin to tell you how badly this use is taken by Jews. Frankly, I can not believe I keep seeing the term used here on the WTM when it causes such deep and understandable offense and shows our Jewish brothers and sisters a complete lack of respect. If a person believes Jesus was divine he or she is a Christian. Fine. No problem. But said person is no longer practicing the Jewish faith, and to call such people Messianic Jews is deeply insulting to practicing Jews (who are themselves "messianic"). Bill Bill, I understand that many Jews are deeply offended by the Jews for Jesus movement because believing Jesus is the messiah is a Christian belief. However, I don't think that people calling themselves Messianic Jews, here on the WTM, should be prohibited. In fact, I think these boards, although overwhelmingly Christian influenced, are open to all people and it's made for a lovely place to exchange ideas about home schooling. I just think it's unreasonable to ask Messianic Jews to call themselves something else here on WTM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Bill I understand how offensive it is to Jews. I just recently found that out. That is why I posted that link to Rabbi tovia Singer because he explains why it is offensive. But that being said Messianic Judaism is a christian denomination just like baptist, methodist etc. That is what they call themselves and that is why she called them that. I should have noted that my comments were not "aimed" at you. I realize you understand the offense this term gives and appreciated the link. I'm sorry for any misimpression I caused, I didn't intend to suggest you were somehow in the wrong here. Mea Culpa. These groups should just start calling themselves Messianic Christians and the problems would end. I just know very well living in a heavily Jewish neighborhood with many Jewish friends that this term causes blood to boil. A Christian, I'm sure, would feel the same way if some group started calling themselves "Christians" but their "Christ" was someone other than Jesus. KWIM? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Bill, I understand that many Jews are deeply offended by the Jews for Jesus movement because believing Jesus is the messiah is a Christian belief. However, I don't think that people calling themselves Messianic Jews, here on the WTM, should be prohibited. In fact, I think these boards, although overwhelmingly Christian influenced, are open to all people and it's made for a lovely place to exchange ideas about home schooling. I just think it's unreasonable to ask Messianic Jews to call themselves something else here on WTM. Groups that call themselves Messianic Jews are fully aware of the grave offense they cause in the Jewish community. It is an outrage, and a deliberate provocation. I don't make the rules, but there are standards of human decency, and this usage crosses the line/ Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pammy Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 and coming to faith in Yeshua should not have anything to do with their Jewish roots? Did you know that it is a commandment for all Jews to celebrate the feasts? I understand why non Christian Jews would be offended, but it is simply because they don't realize that a Jew can become a Christian and yet still remain a Jew. It is just a matter of what they are taught. They are not allowed to read Isaiah 53 during the annual Torah readings because of the Messianic prophecy. If they did read it, and study history about how Yeshua was crucified, then they might convert. I am not meaning to offend anyone, and I feel that I have a right to say these things as a person who loves Israel and has Jewish family members who were killed in the Holocaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in VA Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Groups that call themselves Messianic Jews are fully aware of the grave offense they cause in the Jewish community. It is an outrage, and a deliberate provocation. I don't make the rules, but there are standards of human decency, and this usage crosses the line/ Bill To the OP, I'm sorry this has veered so far off track. Bill, "standards of humany decency, and this usage crosses the line"? I find it amusing that you find the term Messianic Jew so offensive. Of all the things to get your panties in a wad over... you choose this??? Give me a break.:glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 A lot depends on the the diversity of the group and how it's managed. We have several Catholics in our group including one tutor, and it's been fine. We belong to a Conservative Christian group that does not celebrate Christmas and Easter, and of course we had to explain but there was nothing negative back. Not starting a debate here, but we also had some Christians who voted for Barrack Obama, and that DID cause some problems. IMHO the director allowed too much politicizing. Every group is going to be different, but the materials themselves should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in MO Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Messianics do not celebrate Christmas or Easter because of the pagan origins of the holidays. Most believe that Jesus was born around the time of the Feast of Tabernacles in the fall and not at Christmas and they observe his resurrection during Passover which isn't always in line with Easter. Most people don't know about Luther's later writings. Hitler got his writings and basically followed them. His work is entitled On Jews and Their Lies. Here is a copy of it: http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm If you don't want to read it here is a synopsis on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies Slight correction here: Hitler culled his anti-Semitic ravings from a wide variety of sources; I wouldn't say that this writing from Luther was his primary source. Anti-Semitism was fairly well-ingrained in Europe. I honestly don't see how the term "Messianic Jew" is so offensive. The term "Christian" was first applied to Jews who believed in Christ by other people at Antioch, which probably occurred at least ten years after the death of Christ: Acts 11:25-26 25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch. Up until that point, they simply called themselves "followers of the Way" and identified themselves as believers in the Messiah. The early Church was completely Jewish in origin; it took a revelation from God to show Peter that Gentiles could even become believers (Acts 10). Edited May 5, 2009 by Michelle in MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawneinfl Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I am a CC director in FL. Each individual CC community will have it's own nuances but we all operate under the same statement of faith which can be found on the CC website. Your local director should also have this at the info meeting. All directors and tutors must agree with this statement of faith but member families do not fall under this requirement. As far as Christmas and Easter go, there is no emphasis on these holidays in the curriculum. Our fall session ends in November and we don't have any kind of "Christmas Party". As well, in spring, my group tries to finish up before Easter. YMMV in each community. CC is a wonderful program and a great place to find homeschool families who want an excellent education for their children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southmetromom Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 ...and the overall response I received, from the 3 or 4 ladies who had attended CC, was that it WOULD offend most serious Catholics. I might be able to retrieve the thread if you need it. (Just e-mail me: sandy dot ramlet at gmail dot com I also have looked at the Veritas Press materials and they are anti-Catholic, particularly in reference to the Reformation. I don't mean to inflame anyone, I'm just calling it as I see it. I was seriously considering CC but decided against it based on the experience of my Catholic friends. Of course, it depends on the specific CC group and demographics -- so perhaps you will have a more ecumenical group. HTH, Sandy in CO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I was shocked to find out that MANY in the Southeast do not consider Catholics to be Christian. I had never heard of such a thing until we moved down here. This is true of most non-Catholic Christians, not just in the Southeast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaNY Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 If you want to offend Jews calling people who believe Jesus was the Messiah (and are therefore "Christians") "Messianic Jews" is an outstanding way to accomplish the task. Bill I am surrounded by Jews who believe that Yeshua is the Messiah, and they do NOT call themselves Christians. They are still Jewish, and wish to be referred to as Jewish *believers* in Yeshua as Messiah. As Michelle in MO aptly pointed out, it is directly referenced in Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I am surrounded by Jews who believe that Yeshua is the Messiah, and they do NOT call themselves Christians. They are still Jewish, and wish to be referred to as Jewish *believers* in Yeshua as Messiah. As Michelle in MO aptly pointed out, it is directly referenced in Scripture. And as you friend admitted this causes a terrible affront in the Jewish community. If you believe Jesus is divine, to not call yourself a Christian is perverse and is a direct and purposeful attempt (a successful one) to inflame Jews whose faith is negated by such use. You know this, and the people you are surrounded know this full well. What is hateful to yourself, do not do to others. That's the essence of Judaism according to Rabbi Hillel. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I think it depends on the group. I was very anxious to participate in CC about 5 years ago with my son. There was a new group beginning and I was told by the leader that she would allow me to join even though I am Catholic as long as I realize that Jesus was the only way to salvation -- not good works. Well, I wasn't even really practicing any religion at the time, so I didn't even know what she was talking about. Anyway, I attended for a couple of sessions and then dropped it for a number of reasons. The fact that I did not fit in with this very strongly evangelical group was part of it though. So, I think a lot is going to depend on who the people are that are participating. Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Sandra Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 Thank you for all the thoughtful responses to my original question. I'm sorry if it led to a discussion that upset some of you. I asked the question to avoid offense, not to cause it. Bill, please let me assure you that the particular families I know do not call themselves Messianic Jews in order to provoke or offend. They are gentle, loving people. I'm sorry that you are hurt--especially since you're a fellow Angeleno. We live in a great city, Bill. By the time my sons were only three years old they were acquainted with people from dozens of differing religious, ethnic, and racial backgrounds. No curriculum can provide that kind of lesson in respect and tolerance. While I'm sure that every group has its offensive individuals, most people I encounter choose the words they use to describe themselves merely to let people know who they are and what they believe, not to attack what other people believe. When I lived in Westwood I met many people who told me they were Messianic Jews. The same was true when I lived in BH. I'm in the Valley now, and I've met people here who use the same words to describe themselves. I can tell that you are sensitive to the feelings of others so I want to let you know that these particular families are also considerate of others and mean no offense to you. L.A. is a great city, but not an easy city to live in. We homeschoolers should be comrades, not enemies. Will you accept my family's sincere offer of friendship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomOfOneFunOne Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Hello, All! I just want to pop in to anwer the original question. I am Catholic and had a brief and troublesome acquaintance with CC. I do not believe that a faithful Catholic should have anything to do with CC. The so-called statement of faith is not appropriate for Catholics (imnsho). I was asked to tutor and and was "required" to sign it. However, I wouldn't and didn't and eventhough they said it was required, they never asked for it after I started tutoring for them. The VP cards are an abomination to any Catholic, again, in my opinion. The argument that they are just on the back and you don't have to read it just plain silly. If for no other reason, money from a Catholic family would be funding outrageousy, infamously anti-catholic material. There is also a lot of, "you're the parents and whatever you choose to teach is appropriate and you don't have to do anything you don't want or choose to do" kind of talk but as it turns out, it isnt' true. In the very begining the kids memorize a statement that includes the phrase "the Church split . . ." Well, this just isn't as big a deal for us as you might think but at the time we were learning a verse from the Bible about "even the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" and I gave my daughter the option of memorizing the statement as it was or modifying it. We discussed this with a couple of priests and my spiritual advisor and she decided that she could go either way but would perfer to modify the statement. They wouldn't let her. It was their way or the highway if she wanted to be able to do something at the end of the year for a prize or something. In addition to that, my daughter, from the very begining felt that she was being treated differently. I was tutoring so couldn't be there to see for myself. Finally, when the above occured, I called the tutor and asked. My oh my . . . I cannot believe the attitude she had about my kid! Man, what a hatefulness. I complained to the director, a self-professed Catholic herself, to no avail. In fact, she had us all three sit together to discuss the matter but it was really just the two of them telling me how wrong I was to be upset. The director said while she's not a prophet herself she's been given a gift like a prophet and knows I was wrong. Yes, she really did say that. The tutor said she was sorry that I felt the way I felt. I told her that she couldn't be sorry for that. I felt that she needed to apologize for her own actions not my feelings. For that I was castigated and that was pretty much the end of it all. Until the director called my house. My husband had been telling me that I should continue with our involvement b/c he wanted a group learning environment for my daughter. After the director called me at home and he heard the truly offensive things she said, he forbade me to have any more to do with them or her. I had really been struggling with obedience to my husband in his desire for us to remain affiliated with that group and I felt that we were headed for a serious conflict. However, when that woman called being hateful and name-calling, my husband heard for himself and I was greatly relieved that it didn't come to a conflict b/t us. On a positive note, we met friends there that we are still friends with to this day. In sum, no, I do not believe that a Catholic in good conscience could be involved with CC. She must read their "statement of faith" and the cards for herself and I really believe that she will come to the same conclusion. In addition, she must also consider that people who really believe that trash will be teaching her children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Sandra Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 I think I will first attend the meeting to learn more about CC and to find out what this particular CC Community will be like. Then I'll have a better sense about whom to invite and how to present the invitation. Thanks everyone for the helpful information, links and opinions. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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