Socialization-related ponderings...

[OhM]

Has anyone else encountered this situation? Dd11 has homeschooled since 2nd grade, after 2 years in the small local elementary school. She participates in girl scouts, cheerleading, 4-H with some of the local school kids, as well as swim team with kids from other districts. She also participates in miscellaneous homeschool events and offerings. She's friends with many people, and close friends (in this case, meaning spending the night, visiting each other's houses, etc.) with 4-5 girls. That would probably be more if I would make more time in our schedule to have friends over.

 

So lately, several of her friends' moms (literally - 3 specifically, and 2 others more obtusely) have asked, in one way or another, if dd is returning to school next year, because it would be great if her daughter could have a "good friend like A" at school.

 

As I ponder this, I really feel that their daughters *wouldn't* have "a good friend like A" at school if she went to school. If she went to school, she'd probably get right into the "game" that is the reason these girls *don't* have good friends who they can count on and trust at school. We've talked extensively about how to be a friend, what makes a good friend, about how discounting or excluding people just because others think they're "weird" could cause you miss out on knowing a really great person, etc., but I still think that if she found herself in the midst of that battle, the pressure would be great to conform, and I'm not sure she could withstand it.

 

So that's led me to really ponder this whole "socialization" thing. Really, it's sounding more and more to me like a "socialization myth". The myth that a child needs to be in school to learn to get along with people and make friends. The reality is dd has more friends of different backgrounds, ages, and even generations that she'd have if she were limited to the small, segregated, closed group at school.

 

I know others here struggle with friends for kids, especially if you're somewhat isolated. But has anyone else come to the same conclusion I'm heading toward? David Guterson makes a similar point in "Family Matters" - why is segregating kids in groups of 20-30 or their peers for years at a time with limited and contrived interaction with other generations a natural way for kids to be "socialized"?

[sagira]

:iagree:

 

Yesterday I was pondering the socialization issue too, as I watched ds (5) interacting with a rather large group of (traditional school) kids at a baseball game. I was watching him closely, as before he turned 4/5 years old, he wasn't very sociable and got nervous around big groups of children. Now he was playing with them, talking and getting along well with the older boys too, and in the end got to hold a snake one of the older boys caught -- twice! Yet I also noticed and remarked to dh that he seemed to be autonomous and did whatever he felt like instead of relying on the group too much.

[TXMomof4]

Amen! That is the one thing I am confident of in my hsing journey. My children are able to go into virtually any situation and find someone to talk to, to play with, to spend time with. They have their good friends, but aren't limited to only those friends because someone else may not be "cool". I watch all 3 girls play with children older than themselves, take on 'watching' toddlers at the playground (not in an intrusive way, just making sure they are alright) sitting with friends of their grandparents and carrying on intelligent conversations - it is amazing to watch. It has also protected me from so much of the socialization comments so many people feel compelled to make. If we learn nothing else in our hsing journey, my kids will know how to relate to people in all situations.

[Mom In Missouri]

I agree with the idea of the 'socialization myth.' Our daughters have been home schooled from the beginning and struggle with comments from other mothers asking if they'd like to go to school with their daughter (most often same age) so that they'd have a 'good friend.' Our dd's are young--but its already happening in the same way.

 

Most often, its a comparison that the other mother is engaging in--by asking for our daughters to enroll in school so that 'there would be a good influence' on the class is comical to me. But my heart also aches for her since she notices something is not quite right but is unsure (maybe?) in how to solve the problem.

 

I'm enjoying this age when our daughters are learning more and more about how to interact with others independently from me and use what they know now to engage people in a conversation. But at the same time, I know its going to bring about more of this type of comments.

[lllll]

..

[Samiam]

Yes, I do agree the so-called "socialization" in public schools is a myth, as well as a travesty.

1. Alot of the socialization is not something that I would want my children participating in, ie name calling (I heard 1st graders in our neighborhood calling someone "gay"), peer pressure.

2. Socialization is often squashed in PS, due to the large amount of children....ie, children labeled as "they talk to much"....when my DS went to PS in 1st grade for 3 weeks, my DH went to the school to eat lunch with him...the teachers turned the lights out in the lunchroom because there was "too much talking"...everyone had to be silent and eat until they turned the lights back on.

 

 

Also, I do believe introvert/extrovert is a born-personality trait that CAN NOT be changed, regardless of what situations you put the child in. They can be overcome, but not changed. It only does the introvert more harm by forcing them into situations they are not comfortable with, and often, especially in PS, the introvert is labeled as "weird" or outcast, ie the wallflower.

 

Case in point: My DS10 went to daycare from 10 weeks old, while I worked full-time. From age 4, he attended a private school for K4 and K5. This was a small, wonderful private school, 13 children in his class, same ones for two years. Point is, he "went to school" and was "socialized" from very early on his life. He is extremely shy, would never iniate a conversation with another child, and often "hangs in the background". Started HSing in the 1st grade (after those three horrible weeks in PS). I have presented him and enrolled him in numerous classes, and opportunities to meet children and "socialize". Ever so slowly, I can see him coming just a wee bit out of his shyness, in certain environments. He will always be shy, but he is learning, as his self-confidence grows, to overcome it.

 

My DS6 is a complete extrovert. He has never attending daycare, or school. He has been home with me since Day one. He makes friends whereever he goes. Children always know his name, always saying hi to him. He walks up to a crowd of children at the playground and is instantly immersed in whatever game they are playing.

 

I feel sad that some parents think they are socializing their child by droppign them off at PS for 8 hours a day. Not judging, but just sad that they do not know they have better options.

[KJB]

So that's led me to really ponder this whole "socialization" thing. Really, it's sounding more and more to me like a "socialization myth". The myth that a child needs to be in school to learn to get along with people and make friends. The reality is dd has more friends of different backgrounds, ages, and even generations that she'd have if she were limited to the small, segregated, closed group at school.

 

 

I'm not sure your definition of socialization is complete.

 

I think the socialization goes beyond a child needing school in order to learn to get along with people and make friends. I think the socialization concern includes this idea, but also holds the idea that a child needs school in order to learn to function in a group. Also, school socialization includes learning to take turns, learning to take instruction from someone other than a parent, learning to sit quietly when required and to be respectful, learning to wait to get a glass of milk or use the bathroom until the appropriate time, etc.

 

I only mention this because I think we need to be vigilant to remember that to be "socialized" according to those that would look askance, a child needs to do more than have friends. A child needs to be able to work in a group environment without being disruptive and to fit in with appropriate behavior.

 

I've seen a lot of home school kids who doubtlessly got along great on the playground, but couldn't function in a small group educational setting.

 

I only bring this up because I'm not sure the "socialization myth" is a myth. People need to be taught and to practice group dynamics. You can achieve this in a number of non-school group settings (Sunday school, sports, etc.) but a *group* is required. This type of interaction becomes especially important for older children and teenagers who are college bound. IMO.

[ConnieB]

 

 

So that's led me to really ponder this whole "socialization" thing. Really, it's sounding more and more to me like a "socialization myth". The myth that a child needs to be in school to learn to get along with people and make friends. The reality is dd has more friends of different backgrounds, ages, and even generations that she'd have if she were limited to the small, segregated, closed group at school.

 

 

 

My dear, you have taken the first step towards understanding. Let it sink in, and then prepare to spout it out a million times over the next 10 years of your child's homeschool adventure!

[lllll]

..

[TXMomof4]

I'm not sure your definition of socialization is complete.

 

I think the socialization goes beyond a child needing school in order to learn to get along with people and make friends. I think the socialization concern includes this idea, but also holds the idea that a child needs school in order to learn to function in a group. Also, school socialization includes learning to take turns, learning to take instruction from someone other than a parent, learning to sit quietly when required and to be respectful, learning to wait to get a glass of milk or use the bathroom until the appropriate time, etc.

 

I only mention this because I think we need to be vigilant to remember that to be "socialized" according to those that would look askance, a child needs to do more than have friends. A child needs to be able to work in a group environment without being disruptive and to fit in with appropriate behavior.

 

I've seen a lot of home school kids who doubtlessly got along great on the playground, but couldn't function in a small group educational setting.

 

I only bring this up because I'm not sure the "socialization myth" is a myth. People need to be taught and to practice group dynamics. You can achieve this in a number of non-school group settings (Sunday school, sports, etc.) but a *group* is required. This type of interaction becomes especially important for older children and teenagers who are college bound. IMO.

 

 

I think the point is, learning to participate in group activities, stand in line, follow directions, etc. can be and is learned in all situations. Standing in line at the grocery store patiently, working with the family as a group doing yard work, taking a lesson at the community center - all of these situations are learning situations. The idea that they can only be learned if your child is sitting in a class room 5 days a week with 20 other children is ridiculous! I have an acquaintance who is a ps teacher who beats that dead horse with me repeatedly. It absolutely drives me up the wall because her son is the one running through the church lobby knocking over old people, disrupting class with his talking and rudeness, picking on the 'uncool' kids - and she gets on my case about socialization??? If that's her definition of being well socialized, I'll pass.

[Karen sn]

David Guterson makes a similar point in "Family Matters" - why is segregating kids in groups of 20-30 or their peers for years at a time with limited and contrived interaction with other generations a natural way for kids to be "socialized"?

 

Exactly.

It's so they willingly do a going nowhere job that they hate from 9 to 5 without complaining.

[Carrie12345]

I think the point is, learning to participate in group activities, stand in line, follow directions, etc. can be and is learned in all situations. Standing in line at the grocery store patiently, working with the family as a group doing yard work, taking a lesson at the community center - all of these situations are learning situations. The idea that they can only be learned if your child is sitting in a class room 5 days a week with 20 other children is ridiculous!

 

Tell me about it. 13 years of public school and I still can't stand in line at the grocery or work well with others! ;)

[Sharon H in IL]

I've had to protect my son from well-socialized public school kids his whole life.

[LaxMom]

My dear, you have taken the first step towards understanding. Let it sink in, and then prepare to spout it out a million times over the next 10 years of your child's homeschool adventure!

Yes, and also practice stifling reflexive, hysterical laughter. You'll need that skill when your pondering is through, the understanding of the myth has set in, and you begin to be floored by the irony of the question even being posed, a la

It absolutely drives me up the wall because her son is the one running through the church lobby knocking over old people, disrupting class with his talking and rudeness, picking on the 'uncool' kids - and she gets on my case about socialization???

It can be awkward to find yourself laughing along with the "joke" and then come to the realization it was a real question.

 

Seriously, though, it really is a myth. I can attest to the ability of the children at our co-op - from toddlers through highschool aged - to join in a group learning experience. The difference in socialization that I have found is that these kids join as participants, not as a captive audience, and even the most competitive kids are willing to offer help when their classmates need or request it.

[OhM]

From my own experience (ps) and from watching our own dc (1 ps'ed + 5 hs'ed) and various others, I really believe the socialization thing is a myth.

 

When I began kindergarten at the age of 5, the teacher asked my mother if I was "retarded". From what I gathered, I wouldn't speak. Well, I have vivid memories of that class. I hated it. It was a room full of screaming, out-of-control, brats ... to my 5yo eyes. In fact, I remember seriously eyeing that door to freedom and contemplating walking out and heading home. And I was no shrinking violet, by any means. I played with boys - my 2 brothers (no sisters) and their friends - and I was taller and stronger than they were until around 8th grade. I used to beat my older brother in arm wrestling routinely. I played backyard basketball with all boys, rode motorcycles with boys, etc. Anyway, I guess my mother assured the crusty, old, loud-mouthed teacher (again, my 5yo impression of this woman) that I was indeed normal, so I was stuck. Yuk.

 

 

 

This was my dd in kindergarten! The teacher wasn't as nasty as yours sounds, but A still didn't directly address her the entire year. 1st grade was better, but she had definitely been labeled as "shy" and "backward". When I pulled her out for 2nd grade, *everyone* told me that I'd be doing her harm - she *needed* to be around other kids or she'd never "get over" her shyness. (Which, since I'm such an introvert, sounded a lot like "she'd never get over her personality"!

 

Now, after nearly 4 years, I can say the opposite has happened. She is comfortable being herself, and not nearly as reticent as she used to be. She seems to have a confidence expressing herself, and she's really a pretty wacky kid.

 

The really annoying thing is how many of her friend's moms are constantly reminding her how shy she is. They don't even notice *who* she is now!

[stripe]

It's not only the students who provide a social relationship with one's child. I have vivid memories of rather awful teachers (regular and substitutes), myself. Including many (even in grad school!) who suggested something was "wrong" with my name or decided it wasn't worth learning (yeah, I remember your name, Mr. W------, and your daily diet-coke-and-vicks-cough-drop!). Or the ones who stood by and let bullying occur.

 

Anyway, back to the original post, I find that sad. But at least those girls can spend time with your daughter outside of school.

[Peri]

Has anyone else encountered this situation? Dd11 has homeschooled since 2nd grade, after 2 years in the small local elementary school. She participates in girl scouts, cheerleading, 4-H with some of the local school kids, as well as swim team with kids from other districts. She also participates in miscellaneous homeschool events and offerings. She's friends with many people, and close friends (in this case, meaning spending the night, visiting each other's houses, etc.) with 4-5 girls. That would probably be more if I would make more time in our schedule to have friends over.

 

So lately, several of her friends' moms (literally - 3 specifically, and 2 others more obtusely) have asked, in one way or another, if dd is returning to school next year, because it would be great if her daughter could have a "good friend like A" at school.

 

As I ponder this, I really feel that their daughters *wouldn't* have "a good friend like A" at school if she went to school. If she went to school, she'd probably get right into the "game" that is the reason these girls *don't* have good friends who they can count on and trust at school. We've talked extensively about how to be a friend, what makes a good friend, about how discounting or excluding people just because others think they're "weird" could cause you miss out on knowing a really great person, etc., but I still think that if she found herself in the midst of that battle, the pressure would be great to conform, and I'm not sure she could withstand it.

 

So that's led me to really ponder this whole "socialization" thing. Really, it's sounding more and more to me like a "socialization myth". The myth that a child needs to be in school to learn to get along with people and make friends. The reality is dd has more friends of different backgrounds, ages, and even generations that she'd have if she were limited to the small, segregated, closed group at school.

 

I know others here struggle with friends for kids, especially if you're somewhat isolated. But has anyone else come to the same conclusion I'm heading toward? David Guterson makes a similar point in "Family Matters" - why is segregating kids in groups of 20-30 or their peers for years at a time with limited and contrived interaction with other generations a natural way for kids to be "socialized"?

 

This reminds me of a book I'm reading... Hold Onto Your Kids ... something like that. The book was actually recomended on this forum. I haven't gotten very far in the book yet, but it does a great job of explaining that peers actually have too much of a negative influence in our kids lives. I'm very glad I started reading the book. I have skimmed tha book a little and it talks about how to strengthen the bond between parent and child.

[sleepy]

So that's led me to really ponder this whole "socialization" thing. Really, it's sounding more and more to me like a "socialization myth". The myth that a child needs to be in school to learn to get along with people and make friends. The reality is dd has more friends of different backgrounds, ages, and even generations that she'd have if she were limited to the small, segregated, closed group at school.

 

Yup, I think you hit the nail on the head. ;)

 

I know others here struggle with friends for kids, especially if you're somewhat isolated. But has anyone else come to the same conclusion I'm heading toward? David Guterson makes a similar point in "Family Matters" - why is segregating kids in groups of 20-30 or their peers for years at a time with limited and contrived interaction with other generations a natural way for kids to be "socialized"?

 

Yes. I came to that conclusion many years ago, as a child in public school. I reject the socialization myth; I home educate my children.

[Impish]

The whole concept of Parent A asking Parent B,(or worse yet a child!) if their Suzy B would be going to school in order to provide Janey A a 'good friend' boggles my mind to be utterly frank.

[mom4him]

Socialization as our modern society sees it is a very new concept in the realm of time.

I believe a child is well socialized when they can comfortably communicate with people of all ages. They learn this best by being around their family and extended family and then other family friends.

Our children are around people from the age of toddler through ones in their seventies. Their father is in his seventies. They can sit and talk to any of these people about what is happening in their lives or play with the children their age, the toddler, interact with teens. This is socialization in my opinion.

I see many children/young people who can converse with ones their age but are lost if they are given the charge of a 1 1/2 yr old for 10 minutes or if a 60/70/80 yr old comes into their presents. To me they are not well socialized.

[stripe]

Socialization as our modern society sees it is a very new concept in the realm of time.

I believe a child is well socialized when they can comfortably communicate with people of all ages. They learn this best by being around their family and extended family and then other family friends.

Our children are around people from the age of toddler through ones in their seventies. Their father is in his seventies. They can sit and talk to any of these people about what is happening in their lives or play with the children their age, the toddler, interact with teens. This is socialization in my opinion.

I see many children/young people who can converse with ones their age but are lost if they are given the charge of a 1 1/2 yr old for 10 minutes or if a 60/70/80 yr old comes into their presents. To me they are not well socialized.

I agree. And I have observed different abilities to be around people of different ages in different cultures, such as teenaged boys interacting with elderly ladies, is often more natural, and new parents are not quite so bewildered by their new baby because they've actually seen a baby before.

[OhM]

... new parents are not quite so bewildered by their new baby because they've actually seen a baby before.

 

Yeah - I for one could have used this experience at *some point* before oldest dd was born!! I'm always happy to see dd's carrying around our friends' children because of my experience.

[The Girls' Mom]

So lately, several of her friends' moms (literally - 3 specifically, and 2 others more obtusely) have asked, in one way or another, if dd is returning to school next year, because it would be great if her daughter could have a "good friend like A" at school.

 

 

I've had this thrown at me by my dd's PS teachers when I pulled her out. It floors me that people think that I would be willing to sacrifice my child's needs just so she can be the good influence for those kids in a failing system. All the while my child (the good influence) is being torn down by all those around her who are NOT good influences.

[KJB]

The thing is, everyone who has posted so far seems to have their own (seemingly shared) definition of what it means to be socialized.

 

However. When "they" (meaning the non-home school crowd) bring up the "socialization myth" they're not asking how will your 6 year old learn to speak with a 70 year old or interact with a baby. They're not even necessarily wondering how your child will learn to stand in line or do one of a number of obvious social constructs that people can learn just by visiting the market.

 

"They" are asking, how will your 6 year old learn to function in a group. How will your 6 year old learn to be part of a team. How will your 6 year old learn to wait his turn to speak, to share with strangers, to not monopolize a boss or teacher's attention, to accept instruction from someone other than a parent, to be productive in a group, to value other people's solutions without dominating the group or otoh be willing to share ideas in a group without getting cold feet, to give presentations to strangers, to stand up to a group of people you don't know very well and lead them to do the right thing, and so on....

 

If you plan to send your child on to college, and you don't plan to teach at the college, these are valid concerns. If you plan to send your child to the workforce, and you don't plan to be the employer, these are valid concerns.

 

And, imo, these socialization issues are ones that home schoolers need to go out of their way to address.

 

It's my job to make sure my children have the chance to learn these skills.

 

Of course, I believe they can learn these skills outside a public school classroom, but I don't think the idea that "socialization is a myth" rings true. I think home schoolers are knee-jerk defensive about one of our own secret fears. IMO, we don't lose anything by admitting that socialization by the definition "they" are referring to is something we have to make an effort to provide.

[OhM]

The thing is, everyone who has posted so far seems to have their own (seemingly shared) definition of what it means to be socialized.

 

However. When "they" (meaning the non-home school crowd) bring up the "socialization myth" they're not asking how will your 6 year old learn to speak with a 70 year old or interact with a baby. They're not even necessarily wondering how your child will learn to stand in line or do one of a number of obvious social constructs that people can learn just by visiting the market.

 

"They" are asking, how will your 6 year old learn to function in a group. How will your 6 year old learn to be part of a team. How will your 6 year old learn to wait his turn to speak, to share with strangers, to not monopolize a boss or teacher's attention, to accept instruction from someone other than a parent, to be productive in a group, to value other people's solutions without dominating the group or otoh be willing to share ideas in a group without getting cold feet, to give presentations to strangers, to stand up to a group of people you don't know very well and lead them to do the right thing, and so on....

 

If you plan to send your child on to college, and you don't plan to teach at the college, these are valid concerns. If you plan to send your child to the workforce, and you don't plan to be the employer, these are valid concerns.

 

And, imo, these socialization issues are ones that home schoolers need to go out of their way to address.

 

It's my job to make sure my children have the chance to learn these skills.

 

Of course, I believe they can learn these skills outside a public school classroom, but I don't think the idea that "socialization is a myth" rings true. I think home schoolers are knee-jerk defensive about one of our own secret fears. IMO, we don't lose anything by admitting that socialization by the definition "they" are referring to is something we have to make an effort to provide.

 

I agree with all you have said. Perhaps I would do well to revise my short-cut "socialization is a myth" statement to "It's a myth that public schools are adequately and correctly 'socializing' our children, and that homeschoolers can't be properly 'socialized'".

 

And this makes me curious - maybe deserves a s/o - do most people find this a great concern, that you "need to go out of your way to address"?

 

Maybe it's a function of the activities we're involved with, but it's been fairly effortless for my two dd's. That's not to say it's without issue, but the issues are part of the learning process, I've always believed.

 

I've always felt that the opportunity to practice the group skills that you mention with the larger variety of groups hs'ers have access to is preferable to the ps'ers experience with the closed, same-age peer group that they're exposed to year after year, and the stagnant roles and relationships that develop after a time.

[lllll]

..

Edited March 23, 2013 by 3kt68

[lionfamily1999]

My ds has become more outgoing, more self-confident, and better at handling social situations since we started homeschooling a few months ago. In school he was considered anti-social and everything I signed him up for, t-ball, scouts, etc. were huge struggles because he didn't want to talk to anyone and he hated being forced to do things infront of people. Now, he could've just bloomed, coincidentally, just now... or, it could be that a removal from the 'socialization' at school has allowed him to gain the confidence he needed to socialize. He's actually REQUESTED to join some sports for the spring and summer and he officially loves scouts.

 

It's funny, because my family does not use the 'socialization issue' when worried about our homeschooling anymore. Now, they focus on whether or not I'm good enough to teach him :tongue_smilie:.

[KJB]

I disagree that these are issues of character.

 

I think if given the right opportunities, a child in a home school environment can develop, skillfully even, the abilities I spelled out. However, if a child is denied the opportunity to lead a group, for example, I don't think their lack of leadership skills are a character flaw. Instead, I think the deficiency is from a lack of opportunity. You learn by doing.

 

And to me, it follows, that you don't know if you're child has the ability to function well in a group outside the family unless he has the opportunity. Family dynamics are not the same as a group dynamics with non-relatives, imo.

[stripe]

Well, first of all, if someone asks you to keep your child in school so their child can have a friend, it looks to me like the social problem is occurring at school. Second, someone with concerns about homeschooled children's socialization is a different person than the mother of a daughter's friend, so I guess this thread has morphed.

 

I do think the issues of being able to work with others and handle group situations is a different ones than being friendly and so forth, and KJB makes an excellent point that we should seriously examine to what degree our children will be able to function in an other-than-tiny group setting, and how we can equip our children to deal with that aspect of life.

 

I don't really think they're character issues. It's not as if these are issues of being immoral, when you're socially clueless. You can be compassionate and courteous and not know quite what to do when giving a presentation to a group. It's almost like being an immigrant -- you have to learn the social mores of a different group than you're used to.

[Janet in WA]

Our daughters have been home schooled from the beginning and struggle with comments from other mothers asking if they'd like to go to school with their daughter (most often same age) so that they'd have a 'good friend.' Our dd's are young--but its already happening in the same way.

 

Most often, its a comparison that the other mother is engaging in--by asking for our daughters to enroll in school so that 'there would be a good influence' on the class is comical to me. But my heart also aches for her since she notices something is not quite right but is unsure (maybe?) in how to solve the problem.

 

Our sons faced the same stuff. Each handled it in his own way. But our youngest, who is very self confident and outgoing, always made me smile. When he was asked by an adult at church, "How can you have friends if you don't go to school?", my son replied, "YOU don't go to school -- you mean YOU don't have friends?" This same adult asked him if he wouldn't like to "try school" to "experience something different", my son asked him if he intended to "try homeschooling" his own ps daughter so she could "experience something different."

 

The problem with having a son like this is that I couldn't outthink him either.

 

Edited to add: Our oldest son was not homeschooled. He was the least happy and socially well-adjusted of the 3. And that's putting it mildly. If I could have a "do over" with him, I'd homeschool him and never look back.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Janet in WA

[KJB]

I've always felt that the opportunity to practice the group skills that you mention with the larger variety of groups hs'ers have access to is preferable to the ps'ers experience with the closed, same-age peer group that they're exposed to year after year, and the stagnant roles and relationships that develop after a time.

 

Well, I don't know. I was repeatedly offered opportunities to be the master of ceremonies at school productions during both grammar and middle school. I was a competitive debater and traveled the country when I was in high school thanks to my public school. I was active in the National Forensics League and participated in extemporaneous speaking and oratory. I participated in an optimist oratorical contest in 7th grade that was county wide. And these opportunities were given to me in multiple different school districts nationwide since my family moved frequently.

 

I think the school environment does address the need for kids to have opportunities to be leaders and to be active group participants and team members. If you're not going to take the easy road by sending them to school, I think it's on you as a parent to provide. IMO. :D

 

(And I'll add, to me this is just a friendly discussion in case my tone is difficult to read. I know socialization is a touchy subject. Just enjoying putting my 2 cents in the wishing well. (0: )

[OhM]

Well, I don't know. I was repeatedly offered opportunities to be the master of ceremonies at school productions during both grammar and middle school. I was a competitive debater and traveled the country when I was in high school thanks to my public school. I was active in the National Forensics League and participated in extemporaneous speaking and oratory. I participated in an optimist oratorical contest in 7th grade that was county wide. And these opportunities were given to me in multiple different school districts nationwide since my family moved frequently.

 

 

 

Would you say your experience was typical of all of your school mates? In my ps experiences (my own and my dd's) these types of opportunities are often afforded the top 5-10%. Which is fantastic - for them. But what about the other 90-95%? This has been oldest dd's experience since she returned to school. In fact, she's had to seek out other opportunities that aren't school-sponsored (NHD - entering as an individual since the school doesn't participate, and 4-H, to name two) just so she has a chance to participate.

 

In my own ps experience, I was fortunate to experience some great opportunities, too. And still I was and am quite introverted and backward. I still hate working with a group, and can't enter a conversation in an unfamiliar social situation to save my life! In fact, in the course of this discussion, I've marveled at how much I've come out of my shell since starting hsing! Maybe I'm finally being "socialized", too!

 

(Thanks for the disclaimer on your tone, but no worries. And the same disclaimer goes for me. :D)

[Rosy]

I agree that there is more to socialization than being able to get along with people and make friends, but I don't think ps is the answer. I do hope that my kids learn to work collaboratively with people in and out of their family, take direction from people they don't agree with, manage other people fairly, etc. I think some of that can be learned at home, but not all of it. Though I do believe that they learn the character to do all of these things well at home.

 

To the OP--the fact that your daughter is such a good friend to many girls her age speaks well of her. :) Hopefully she'll be able to continue to nurture those friendships.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

So lately, several of her friends' moms (literally - 3 specifically, and 2 others more obtusely) have asked, in one way or another, if dd is returning to school next year, because it would be great if her daughter could have a "good friend like A" at school.

 

 

 

In a way, it is an indication that the other moms realize that these years are filled with anxiety and less than forthright friendships. What a great complement to dd and you that they think having your dd around their dds more would be great.

 

Is this year marking a change in schools in your area (like from elementary to middle school)? I remember being incredibly nervous about starting Jr High. There were all sorts of stories about getting locked inside lockers or thrown in the quad (a bush filled area).

 

It sounds like these moms are inquiring in part to see if they can reassure their daughters that there would be a stalwart friend around.

[OhM]

Is this year marking a change in schools in your area (like from elementary to middle school)? I remember being incredibly nervous about starting Jr High. There were all sorts of stories about getting locked inside lockers or thrown in the quad (a bush filled area).

 

 

 

How astute you are! They're moving to the middle school next year - and though it's only two small rural schools coming together (and most of the kids have played intramural sports together already) there is a high level of general "angst" about all the "new kids". Didn't even consider this possibility!