Jump to content

Menu
Giving You and Your Child a Road Map to the Best Possible Education
The Well-Trained Mind Community

So SpyCar [AKA Bill]

newlifemom
 Share

Recommended Posts

newlifemom

newlifemom

Posted
Posted

Would you care to explain [in small words so the rest of us can understand :tongue_smilie:] just what the code is in your sig line. Please know, I studied history in college and actually went back to the community college where my "you must be an idiot to not know this math" course was completed b/c I couldn't pass the math test to the state college. Thank you very much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, when you are done explaining would you also mind moving up to Oregon to do all my kid's higher level math?:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted (edited)
Would you care to explain [in small words so the rest of us can understand :tongue_smilie:] just what the code is in your sig line. Please know, I studied history in college and actually went back to the community college where my "you must be an idiot to not know this math" course was completed b/c I couldn't pass the math test to the state college. Thank you very much.

 

BTW, when you are done explaining would you also mind moving up to Oregon to do all my kid's higher level math?:D

 

OK, I've been "cagey" long enough.

 

The code in the sig is a "mini-computer", and is component of the Comprehensive School Mathematics Program. The mini-computer was developed by a Belgian mathematician Georges Papy in the 1950's

 

Here's a link to the wiki article on CSMP.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_School_Mathematics_Program'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_School_Mathematics_Program'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_School_Mathematics_Program'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_School_Mathematics_Program

 

The CSMP program is now maintained by volunteers. The full curriculum is available online of free download. Being the nut that I am, and enjoying throwing new things at the wee one for him to gobble up greedily, I've been "stealing" some fun ideas from CSMP.

 

Because the "colors" of the code match rods Cuisenaire rods by son (4.8) got the concept straight away. I's not so hard once you understand the values (but incomprehensible other-wise).

 

Here's a link to the full programs

http://ceure.buffalostate.edu/~csmp/CSMP%20Program/index.html

 

Here's a link to a book on how to use the mini-computer of games and lessons as a stand alone.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_School_Mathematics_Program

 

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
Link to comment
Share on other sites
DarlaS

DarlaS

Posted
Posted (edited)
Because the "colors" of the code match rods Cuisenaire rods by son (4.8) got the concept straight away.

 

Cuisinaire rods! I don't have any of those, but I knew I must have been overthinking it. :lol:

 

Just last night I was looking at this again, and asked my computer geek son what it was (and if the colors could have had anything to do with it because I did notice they were in a pattern). He didn't know--just that it couldn't be binary.

 

ETA: Thanks for the link to that math program. I've got a mathy 5 yo here and it pains me to think of putting him through a traditional approach. I'm using Singapore with him now but this is looking pretty cool.

Edited by darlasowders
Link to comment
Share on other sites
DarlaS

DarlaS

Posted
Posted

It's sort of binary-esque in the positioning of the dots. Check out this lesson booklet (if you haven't seen it already). It is usable even without the rest of the program:

 

http://ceure.buffalostate.edu/~csmp/CSMP%20Program/String%20Games%20and%20MiniComputer/Minicomputer.pdf

 

 

I just ordered Cuisenaire rods. never gave them much of a passing thought as I always associated them with Miquon--and I don't get Miquon. This, I get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted
Cuisinaire rods! I don't have any of those, but I knew I must have been overthinking it. :lol:

 

Just last night I was looking at this again, and asked my computer geek son what it was (and if the colors could have had anything to do with it because I did notice they were in a pattern). He didn't know--just that it couldn't be binary.

 

ETA: Thanks for the link to that math program. I've got a mathy 5 yo here and it pains me to think of putting him through a traditional approach. I'm using Singapore with him now but this is looking pretty cool.

 

Of all the things I've ever done introducing Cuisinaire rods to my son when he was young, and letting him find number value relationships via Miquon and Miquon-like activities of my own creation, stands (in my mind) as one of the best decisions I've ever made.

 

I truly don't know if "mathy" children are born or "made", but I do think the expose to interesting math approaches from the git-go (Cuisinaire rods prime among them) set the stage for a life-time of math being a "native language".

 

If you have not seen (or heard of) the The Mathematics Enhancement Programme (MEP) I'd urge you to take a look. It is a highly interesting program based on the Hungarian math model, that promotes a critical thinking approach to math that I can't say enough positive things about.

 

I intend to use MEP in conjunction with Singapore, as I'm finding them complimentary, but different enough to keep a young ones mind really churning. All the feed-back form the growing number of MEP users here on WTM is that their children really like it, althought it can cause them to say: my brain hurts. :lol:

 

http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm

 

Incidentally, there is no charge to down-load the full program: workbooks, lesson plans, and additional teacher aids. But the no cost/low cost aspect of MEP is not where the value of this program lies. It is simply something very special for a parent and child who want to go far beyond a "traditional approach". Take a look, I have a feeling you will love this :001_smile:

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted
Bill, I just have to say that I really miss your old pic, with the frowny and smiley faces. I always got such a lift when I saw it.

 

Tara

 

Someone suggested the "inequalities" symbol looked like a smilie on its side. Maybe if you look at it that way it could get you "over the hump" :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted
colorful, yes but I just have to say that the brown with the purple bugs me.

 

I think it would look so much better if it were red/purple, orange/purple or even green/purple. But brown..I just don't know.

:tongue_smilie:

 

Blame the Belgians :tongue_smilie:

 

I'm not sure that I don't agree with you :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jg_puppy

jg_puppy

Posted
Posted
Of all the things I've ever done introducing Cuisinaire rods to my son when he was young, and letting him find number value relationships via Miquon and Miquon-like activities of my own creation, stands (in my mind) as one of the best decisions I've ever made.

 

If you have not seen (or heard of) the The Mathematics Enhancement Programme (MEP) I'd urge you to take a look. It is a highly interesting program based on the Hungarian math model, that promotes a critical thinking approach to math that I can't say enough positive things about.

 

I intend to use MEP in conjunction with Singapore, as I'm finding them complimentary, but different enough to keep a young ones mind really churning. All the feed-back form the growing number of MEP users here on WTM is that their children really like it, althought it can cause them to say: my brain hurts. :lol:

Bill

 

So you recommend MEP over this program and Miquon for a mathy kid. My son is 6 and he has been playing around with Cuisinaire rods since he was probably 4. He really gets numbers. I am amazed at things that he figures out on his own. I keep going back and forth trying to figure out what math program to use with him. So far Singapore, Miquon, and MEP are at the top of the list. The one mentioned in this thread looks interesting as well.

 

Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted (edited)

I mentioned this in another thread, so at the risk of repeating myself, I was refereed to CSMP by "Kathy in Richmond" and spent a long night up down-loading and reading the CSMP materials.

 

The next morning over coffee, I started drawing a mini-computer block. My son got intrigued, and my wife and mother-in-law (who'd come for a sleep over) were giving me that quizzical look to which I've become increasingly accustomed :D

 

When I was done, I put down a coin on the purple square and asked my son: What's that?

 

Without a moments hesitation, he said Four!

 

Even I was a little surprised he got it but there was glee in my heart as two two ladies started looking at each other out of the corners of their eyes :D

 

Then, Red?: Two!

White? One

Brown? Eight

Red, White and Purple? Seven

 

By this point jaws had hit the table, and to say the wife and MIL were bewildered would be a supreme understatement.

 

Then the not yet 5 year oln patiently explained it too them. It was too funny :lol:

 

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
Link to comment
Share on other sites
stripe

stripe

Posted
Posted
Binary would be two parts, on or off, one or zero. Base-2.

 

The mini-computer is base-10. :lol:

 

Bill

Really? Isn't each small square a binary component? On = has a dot; off = no dot. And the configuration:

lower right => 2^0

lower left => 2^1

upper right => 2^2

upper left => 2^3

 

And what makes it base ten, anyway, since if you have a dot in each square, you'd have....2^3+2^2+2^1+2^0 = 8 + 4 + 2 + 1 = 16 , all in one space. I've never seen that in base 10. Sounds like some weird combination of hexadecimal and decimal to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted
Really? Isn't each small square a binary component? On = has a dot; off = no dot. And the configuration:

lower right => 2^0

lower left => 2^1

upper right => 2^2

upper left => 2^3

 

And what makes it base ten, anyway, since if you have a dot in each square, you'd have....2^3+2^2+2^1+2^0 = 8 + 4 + 2 + 1 = 16 , all in one space. I've never seen that in base 10. Sounds like some weird combination of hexadecimal and decimal to me.

 

Full props for a better analysis than my own :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted
So you recommend MEP over this program and Miquon for a mathy kid. My son is 6 and he has been playing around with Cuisinaire rods since he was probably 4. He really gets numbers. I am amazed at things that he figures out on his own. I keep going back and forth trying to figure out what math program to use with him. So far Singapore, Miquon, and MEP are at the top of the list. The one mentioned in this thread looks interesting as well.

 

Jan

 

I'm out the door, we'll get back to this later.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites
nmoira

nmoira

Posted
Posted
I'm thinking BEER! :D
Mmmm... a nice Belgian tripel...

 

No, I must back to school stuff, 'cause we're only halfway done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ibbygirl

Ibbygirl

Posted
Posted
Of all the things I've ever done introducing Cuisinaire rods to my son when he was young, and letting him find number value relationships via Miquon and Miquon-like activities of my own creation, stands (in my mind) as one of the best decisions I've ever made.

 

I truly don't know if "mathy" children are born or "made", but I do think the expose to interesting math approaches from the git-go (Cuisinaire rods prime among them) set the stage for a life-time of math being a "native language".

 

If you have not seen (or heard of) the The Mathematics Enhancement Programme (MEP) I'd urge you to take a look. It is a highly interesting program based on the Hungarian math model, that promotes a critical thinking approach to math that I can't say enough positive things about.

 

I intend to use MEP in conjunction with Singapore, as I'm finding them complimentary, but different enough to keep a young ones mind really churning. All the feed-back form the growing number of MEP users here on WTM is that their children really like it, althought it can cause them to say: my brain hurts. :lol:

 

http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm

 

Incidentally, there is no charge to down-load the full program: workbooks, lesson plans, and additional teacher aids. But the no cost/low cost aspect of MEP is not where the value of this program lies. It is simply something very special for a parent and child who want to go far beyond a "traditional approach". Take a look, I have a feeling you will love this :001_smile:

 

Bill

 

Thank you for this. I myself am a severely handicapped person mathematically speaking and this is the one area of homeschooling where I doubt my abilities to teach the subject effectively. Is there a point where it becomes too late for a person to develop mathematical thinking?? Am I a lost cause? Or is there some way that I can learn and become a better math teacher for my daughter's sake?

 

My daughter also, not surprisingly, is not a very mathy kid. I use Singapore with her hoping that it will help her in this respect, but is there something that you know of that an older child (11) can use to develop mathematical thinking?? Is there some sort of manipulative or something like that that will help to drive more abstract mathematical concepts home?? I will wait eagerly for your reply. :) Thank you.

 

Oh and PS, totally ot, but your avatar. The little man in it, would that be from the comic Spy vs. Spy from Mad Magazine??

 

Thx. :)

 

Jen

Link to comment
Share on other sites
nmoira

nmoira

Posted
Posted
Oh no! Not one of those super long days! I hate those!

 

You need a quadrupel!

I might need a quadrupel ;) but it's only 2:30 here and we're about to head out to Aikido. Almost everything done, so not too bad in the end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LaxMom

LaxMom

Posted
Posted
I'm out the door, we'll get back to this later.

 

Bill

When you return and commence to waxing poetic about MEP once more, would you be so kind to tell us how one goes about getting the passwords? (I feel like a terrible impostor emailing for such things when their language is very schooly)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hathersage

Hathersage

Posted
Posted
When you return and commence to waxing poetic about MEP once more, would you be so kind to tell us how one goes about getting the passwords? (I feel like a terrible impostor emailing for such things when their language is very schooly)

 

 

You can join the yahoo group to get the password. It is in the files section.

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mep-homeschoolers/

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted
Ooh, thanks! (Interestingly, I clicked on one of the "b" student books that indicate they need a password, and it opened right up. What's up with that?:confused:)

 

There is one set of books that says a password is needed (when it isn't) but there are some that do.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted
So you recommend MEP over this program and Miquon for a mathy kid. My son is 6 and he has been playing around with Cuisinaire rods since he was probably 4. He really gets numbers. I am amazed at things that he figures out on his own. I keep going back and forth trying to figure out what math program to use with him. So far Singapore, Miquon, and MEP are at the top of the list. The one mentioned in this thread looks interesting as well.

 

Jan

 

Jan, I have just loved what the Miquon, Singapore, and MEP progression has done for my son. And how, as you've experienced with your boy, the Cuisenaire Rods help children this age understand numbers and values.

 

It is far too soon for me to evaluate the merits (or de-merits) of CSMP. I can say it has some really interesting things that are right up my alley in terms of the way I like to approach math with my son. But I'm also nearing a threshold of what I juggle. The teachers book for the first level runs something like 400 pages :lol:

 

So we will see how many concepts I can steal with out burning myself out. The little man I never over-burden, and he's happy as a clam to have something totally new every day. He thrives on it as a matter of fact.

 

There are some interesting films on the CSMP site. In addition to the mimi-computer they do a lot of interesting things with sets (they call "string game") and another activity called "arrow roads". Very interesting things.

 

So I throw out idea for those as nutty as myself :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted
Okay, I'm sitting here with the Cuisenaire rods, and I still don't get it. It's okay, though. My poor kids....

 

eta: my dd just explained it. Geez.

 

Janet

 

Hey Janet, take an Orange Rod (ordinarily a "ten" value) and lay it horizontally the on top of it stack "other ways" to make 10. Any combo you want/can think up.

 

Then take the rods and line up one of each color vertically from least to greatest (this is called "stairs"). Then greatest to least.

 

The kids will get this straight away, and eventually you'll get it too :D

 

Bill (same boat :tongue_smilie:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted
So where do I get these rods. Would my local homeschool bookstore carry them? Hmmm, please don't make me change my approach to math next year. I am already turning my world upside down.

 

What approach are you using Pam?

 

The rods I have are the plastic non-connecting 155 set made by Learning Resources. I like these a lot. Better than the wooden ones (surprisingly) as they are more regular, washable, and almost indestructible.

 

Here is a link to the set I recommend, they can be found less expensively on other sites (this is the manufacturer). Don't get the "connecting" version.

 

There are also "base-10 flats" (blue 10 x 10 x1 cm squares) that represent 100 units that are helpful for teaching (and making "concrete") number values in the 100's in combination with the rods.

 

http://www.learningresources.com/product/cuisenaire--174-+rods+small+group+set-+plastic+rods.do?search=basic&keyword=LER7513&sortby=best&asc=true&page=1

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted
Thank you for this. I myself am a severely handicapped person mathematically speaking and this is the one area of homeschooling where I doubt my abilities to teach the subject effectively. Is there a point where it becomes too late for a person to develop mathematical thinking?? Am I a lost cause? Or is there some way that I can learn and become a better math teacher for my daughter's sake?

 

My daughter also, not surprisingly, is not a very mathy kid. I use Singapore with her hoping that it will help her in this respect, but is there something that you know of that an older child (11) can use to develop mathematical thinking?? Is there some sort of manipulative or something like that that will help to drive more abstract mathematical concepts home?? I will wait eagerly for your reply. :) Thank you.

 

Oh and PS, totally ot, but your avatar. The little man in it, would that be from the comic Spy vs. Spy from Mad Magazine??

 

Thx. :)

 

Jen

 

I don't think it's ever too late. I'm certainly surprised how much I'm enjoying teaching my son math because math was always what I considered my "weakest" spot.

 

And a big part of that I believe is the way "math" was taught. Making it dull and uninteresting (to me). Quite often in school I'd sit with a book or novel propped inside my math-book and "pretend" to be paying attention to the lessons, but actually reading something that interested me instead.

 

So part of the thing is to make learning fun, challenging and exciting. I'm getting a good handle on how to do that with a 5 year old. With an 11 year old I'd be speculating.

 

One thing I've thought of for that age is starting "The Life of Fred" series. Are you familiar with this one? It introduces math concepts with-in the context of an ongoing story and by all repots is outstanding.

 

There is also a book/course called "Russian Math 6" that interests me for that age.

 

You've seen us mention MEP I'm sure, and this (free for the down-loading) program really seems to appeal to kids. It's an interesting approach that seems to fold in nicely with Singapore.

 

And coming in May, Singapore Math will be releasing the book "The Singapore Model Method". This looks like an intriguing work to me.

 

I hope this helps a little.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spy Car

Spy Car

Posted
Posted (edited)
Bill,

 

I'm curious if you've ever looked at RightStart, and what your opinion might be of this curriculum.

 

Kelly

 

I have the book "Activities for Al Abacus" that was (from my understanding) Dr. Cotter's initial program before significantly expanding it into the full Right Start program. And also her Math Card Games book, the Al Abacus, place value cards, base-10 cards and math game cards.

 

All her materials are highly useful and (based on what I have) are really great for "buttoning up" concepts. I strongly considered RS. But at the end of the day I felt like I wanted to be kind of "eclectic" in my approach and I felt (rightly or wrongly) that Dr. Cotter had a model for teaching (a good one) that I wouldn't have felt as comfortable "messing with" as I have with Miquon, Singapore and MEP. This my have been a wrong impression on my part.

 

It also seemed RS was pretty scripted, not a big plus for me (but I can see how it would be for some) and sometimes I strain with Dr. Cotter's explanations of things when it gets down to "instructions". She seems to think like an "engineer" and I don't. The fault is likely my own but, at time, there is a "barrier" for me. On the other hand her philosophy of teaching to me is spot on.

 

Also we started with Cuisenaire Rods, rather than the abacus and my son is very at home with these. The rods lack a bit of "calculator" functionality the abacus has, but for teaching relative values in a concrete way the rods have some advantage.

 

This is a long answer for what is an ultimately less-than-fully-informed opinion on my part.

 

From all I know Right Start is one of the very best programs for young kids. It does seem to excel at teaching an orderly way of dealing with math and place value. Really making things clear. And re-enforcing math facts though games in a fun ways, rather than drill.

 

I think a child would have a very highly functional (maybe the most highly functional) math skills on a practical level of any program I'm aware of, and it has been hugely popular with parents on this board whose opinions I most trust.

 

But if there is a down-side I'm not sure that RS provokes the same deep critical thinking aspects that MEP ,and Miquon (and Singapore as you advance) do. At least not based on the materials I have. So you get exceedingly good explanations of concepts done in a "progressive" fashion, but is there an intangible missing? The thing that makes their young brains hurt? I don't know for sure.

 

But it's the small area I have doubts about, and I value the development of those deep thinking skills as much, or more, than any other aspect of math education at this point. Even if it's a little messy at times.

 

Do take it all this with a grain-of-salt because I'm convinced RS is one of the best math programs available. Peoples priorities, teaching styles, learning styles, all factor in to these decisions. Nothing is ever "perfect". If it were I wouldn't be juggling elements of 4 or 5 different programs at the moment.

 

And it is "dangerous" having too fully formed an opinion on a program you've only had exposure to in a "lite" version. I'm certain many (many) RS users will tell you (rightly) how well it has worked with their kids. So I don't want to seem negative in any way just because I went another way. And I still want the "best of RS" in our mix because it does somethings better than anything else I've seen.

 

Have I been confusing enough? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
Link to comment
Share on other sites
stripe

stripe

Posted
Posted

The rods I have are the plastic non-connecting 155 set made by Learning Resources. I like these a lot. Better than the wooden ones (surprisingly) as they are more regular, washable, and almost indestructible.

I have the same set. I can report that they do not stand a chance against the teeth of a determined human child (although I am not sure the dent is best described as destruction, exactly).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
newlifemom

newlifemom

Posted
  • Author
Posted
What approach are you using Pam?

 

The rods I have are the plastic non-connecting 155 set made by Learning Resources. I like these a lot. Better than the wooden ones (surprisingly) as they are more regular, washable, and almost indestructible.

 

Here is a link to the set I recommend, they can be found less expensively on other sites (this is the manufacturer). Don't get the "connecting" version.

 

There are also "base-10 flats" (blue 10 x 10 x1 cm squares) that represent 100 units that are helpful for teaching (and making "concrete") number values in the 100's in combination with the rods.

 

http://www.learningresources.com/product/cuisenaire--174-+rods+small+group+set-+plastic+rods.do?search=basic&keyword=LER7513&sortby=best&asc=true&page=1

 

 

I'm a Saxon girl and before anyone yells, my dh's sister didn't hs her kids iykwim. She used Saxon math for them, or rather they used it for themselves and 2 of them qualified for full scholarships to college as pre-med. That is what sold me. I know nothing about math,(as I confessed before) so I thought that Saxon was the safest way to go. I am also terribly afraid to change, b/c I have heard that jumping around with math can be very dangerous. I am going to look up these rods though as I am intrigued. I have a feeling next year is going to be very interesting. :tongue_smilie:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ibbygirl

Ibbygirl

Posted
Posted (edited)
I don't think it's ever too late. I'm certainly surprised how much I'm enjoying teaching my son math because math was always what I considered my "weakest" spot.

 

And a big part of that I believe is the way "math" was taught. Making it dull and uninteresting (to me). Quite often in school I'd sit with a book or novel propped inside my math-book and "pretend" to be paying attention to the lessons, but actually reading something that interested me instead.

 

So part of the thing is to make learning fun, challenging and exciting. I'm getting a good handle on how to do that with a 5 year old. With an 11 year old I'd be speculating.

 

One thing I've thought of for that age is starting "The Life of Fred" series. Are you familiar with this one? It introduces math concepts with-in the context of an ongoing story and by all repots is outstanding.

 

There is also a book/course called "Russian Math 6" that interests me for that age.

 

You've seen us mention MEP I'm sure, and this (free for the down-loading) program really seems to appeal to kids. It's an interesting approach that seems to fold in nicely with Singapore.

 

And coming in May, Singapore Math will be releasing the book "The Singapore Model Method". This looks like an intriguing work to me.

 

I hope this helps a little.

 

Bill

 

Thank you, Bill, for the recommendations. I will start looking into them. :) Incidentally, would those things you mentioned be considered a supplement to her full curriculum or a curriculum in itself? Thanks for your time. :)

 

*edit* I ordered LOF today. I will use it as a supplement to Singapore. thanks for the recommendation. :) Peace. :)

Edited by Ibbygirl
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ibbygirl

Ibbygirl

Posted
Posted

I started the first book of LOF today with my daughter and she LOVED IT!! We did the first two chapters and she wanted to keep on going, but I had to start cooking dinner! hehehe She wants to hurry up and eat dinner now so we can do chapter 3 afterwards. Thanks again so much for the recommendation Spy Car. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...