Would these things cause red flags for you?

[mrsanniep]

I'm wondering what's the latest on Red Flag Church Man?

[Hillary in KS]

I've been wondering how yesterday went as well. Do you have an update?

[Karen sn]

Remember when we could post anon and only the computer geeks could find us - and they were mum?

I would post anon if I could right now.

But I can't.

 

So, here I go.

 

I am scared and sickened by men like this man at Bess' church.

No matter his intentions, flashing lights go off when I hear about people WHO CAN NOT RESPECT BOUNDARY'S.

 

And I thought I had it rough because I grew up without my alcoholic dad.

Only to find out later that so many of my friends in college had been molested by their own dads.

 

It is sickening to me what some people are capable of doing.

And I would be such a female dog if ANYONE - ANYWHERE - EVER

caused me concern over the welfare of my child.

 

 

Screw manners!

Call the inner dog/wolf/bear mother that is in you and stop this man from touching your kid.

Ewww. I get grossed out by some people and I have no problem keeping my baby out of their arms.

 

It takes 5 seconds.

He's already had that when he ran outside "to talk on his cell phone"

and then had the NERVE to tell the child's OWN FATHER "it's ok, I've got her"

as his little attempt to control the situation.

And kiss her!!!

 

I don't think so.

 

 

Oh - to the poster who asked for the update:

She did post saying, if I recall correctly, that he asked for a kiss???!!!??

Anyone remember that?

Edited April 27, 2009 by Karen sn
spelling

[PineFarmMom]

Upon reading the OP from before, I checked out the book from the library "Protecting the Gift." I can't tell you the number of lights that went off in my head of the NUMBER OF TIMES someone has come in contact with myself or one of my children and I had those "run" feelings. It was like looking through an old photo album or something.

 

I went for a walk a month ago, in my rural neighborhood, and a friend had just called me on my cell. I had the phone to my ear and a man pulled up and asked how to get out of the neighborhood...there is only one way out, and I told him, so he had to turn around to get out. As soon as he pulled away from me, I thought about his eyes and I felt sick to my stomach and told my friend on the phone that I was going to give her a license plate # and I wanted her to write it down. I then took a nudging within myself to scoot way away from the road, off into the grassy area, as he would be heading back towards me with his driver's side door right beside me. I told my friend the # and sure enough, he pulled back up, close to me (like on the wrong side of the road), asked if I was married, and I told him yes and he said, "Oh, you are very pretty." I just bolted as quickly as I could. He saw me on the phone, so I think that helped. I called the police and gave them the make, model and license plate. The guy knew him...he had arrested him a week before for dwi.

 

That is just to say that I know those warnings from the Lord that go off in my head...I think we all know them. I remember getting them as a small child and them being right. That book, though, really explains the warnings in detail and what the person is doing to get try to get the advantage.

[Nakia]

Remember when we could post anon and only the computer geeks could find us - and they were mum?

I would post anon if I could right now.

But I can't.

 

So, here I go.

 

I am scared and sickened by men like this man at Bess' church.

No matter his intentions, flashing lights go off when I hear about people WHO CAN NOT RESPECT BOUNDARY'S.

 

And I thought I had it rough because I grew up without my alcoholic dad.

Only to find out later that so many of my friends in college had been molested by their own dads.

 

It is sickening to me what some people are capable of doing.

And I would be such a female dog if ANYONE - ANYWHERE - EVER

caused me concern over the welfare of my child.

 

 

Screw manners!

Call the inner dog/wolf/bear mother that is in you and stop this man from touching your kid.

Ewww. I get grossed out by some people and I have no problem keeping my baby out of their arms.

 

It takes 5 seconds.

He's already had that when he ran outside "to talk on his cell phone"

and then had the NERVE to tell the child's OWN FATHER "it's ok, I've got her"

as his little attempt to control the situation.

And kiss her!!!

 

I don't think so.

 

 

Oh - to the poster who asked for the update:

She did post saying, if I recall correctly, that he asked for a kiss???!!!??

Anyone remember that?

 

I agree with everything you said, down to the alcoholic father!!!! Mama bear would have come out long ago. And honestly, I just don't get why any father would let it go on either. My husband would have had a talk with him the first time it happened. I hope Bess has been able to get the situation under control.

[Bess]

I've been wondering how yesterday went as well. Do you have an update?

 

Well, yesterday he once again came up to my dh and dd and scooted his face down to my dd and said, "give me some sugar". My dh literally backed away as quick as he could and said, "Actually..." and the guy cut him off asking, "what, is she sick?". My dh then went on to tell him that one of the things we are training her on is not going to people outside the family, including giving hugs/kisses and that she needs to learn boundaries for her own safety, etc. The guy just responded, "oh, okay". And then my dh left. Sooooo, I'm really really glad my dh decided to rehearse what to say and actually did it.

[LBC]

Well, yesterday he once again came up to my dh and dd and scooted his face down to my dd and said, "give me some sugar". My dh literally backed away as quick as he could and said, "Actually..." and the guy cut him off asking, "what, is she sick?". My dh then went on to tell him that one of the things we are training her on is not going to people outside the family, including giving hugs/kisses and that she needs to learn boundaries for her own safety, etc. The guy just responded, "oh, okay". And then my dh left. Sooooo, I'm really really glad my dh decided to rehearse what to say and actually did it.

 

Tell your dh he gets a gold star for handling this situation so well.:thumbup1:

I was getting totally creeped out reading this thread until I read that your dh handled it so well. I once had to tell someone (a woman at church) to stop touching my dc, and she totally freaked out on me, and made all kinds of "what kind of a Christian are you..." types of accusations.:crying: It was so awful, but it had to be done. She was emotionally unstable, and I felt so uncomfortable that she was paying so much attention to my kids.

 

Lori

[LaxMom]

...

I went for a walk a month ago, in my rural neighborhood, and a friend had just called me on my cell. I had the phone to my ear and a man pulled up and asked how to get out of the neighborhood......

 

Ew. EW, EW, EW, EW!!!!!! Good acting on that instinct!

 

Well, yesterday he once again came up to my dh and dd and scooted his face down to my dd and said, "give me some sugar". My dh literally backed away as quick as he could and said, "Actually..." and the guy cut him off asking, "what, is she sick?". My dh then went on to tell him that one of the things we are training her on is not going to people outside the family, including giving hugs/kisses and that she needs to learn boundaries for her own safety, etc. The guy just responded, "oh, okay". And then my dh left. Sooooo, I'm really really glad my dh decided to rehearse what to say and actually did it.

 

And good for your husband. This guy really needs to learn some manners, at the very least.

[mom4him]

Well, yesterday he once again came up to my dh and dd and scooted his face down to my dd and said, "give me some sugar". My dh literally backed away as quick as he could and said, "Actually..." and the guy cut him off asking, "what, is she sick?". My dh then went on to tell him that one of the things we are training her on is not going to people outside the family, including giving hugs/kisses and that she needs to learn boundaries for her own safety, etc. The guy just responded, "oh, okay". And then my dh left. Sooooo, I'm really really glad my dh decided to rehearse what to say and actually did it.

:hurray::hurray::hurray: GOOD JOB, DAD :hurray::hurray::hurray:

Don't be surprised if he tries it again next week though. Your dh will need to be consistent. If he doesn't totally give it up in a couple more week I would talk to the leadership if you haven't before.

[Harriet Vane]

:hurray::hurray::hurray: GOOD JOB, DAD :hurray::hurray::hurray:

Don't be surprised if he tries it again next week though. Your dh will need to be consistent. If he doesn't totally give it up in a couple more week I would talk to the leadership if you haven't before.

 

:iagree:

[Ginevra]

Sidebar: During the sermon yesterday, our pastor pointed out that our church is die-hard vigilant on protecting the children. He mentioned how extensive the security is, even making a few jokes about how they still have a few kids that have never been picked up. He said the leadership is trained to confront any situation that could be harmful to a child. I thought of this thread. And I thought :thumbup: I LOVE THIS CHURCH!

[mom4him]

Sidebar: During the sermon yesterday, our pastor pointed out that our church is die-hard vigilant on protecting the children. He mentioned how extensive the security is, even making a few jokes about how they still have a few kids that have never been picked up. He said the leadership is trained to confront any situation that could be harmful to a child. I thought of this thread. And I thought :thumbup: I LOVE THIS CHURCH!

:iagree:This is the way it should be but isn't in most churchs. When I was director of the nursery and implamented some safe guards with the babies I got all sorts of guff from staff AND parents if you can believe. I insisted that they sign their child in, was given a card with that childs name on it and no one could pick the child up unless they had the card. What a fuss it made. I also didn't let just anyone come into the nursery. It had to be an approved nursery worker. There is a cry room for parents that wanted to hold their child. Another big fuss.:001_huh: I was totally confused by it.

[keptwoman]

Please Bess. PLEASE be sure to speak to your Pastor about this. When this guy realises your family is not a good target he WILL move on to someone else. Other people may not have the same wariness as you. You have a duty to every child in that church to talk to church leadership about this so that they are aware of it. Imagine if you say nothing and he abuses another child!

[Ginevra]

This is the way it should be but isn't in most churchs. When I was director of the nursery and implamented some safe guards with the babies I got all sorts of guff from staff AND parents if you can believe. I insisted that they sign their child in, was given a card with that childs name on it and no one could pick the child up unless they had the card. What a fuss it made. I also didn't let just anyone come into the nursery. It had to be an approved nursery worker. There is a cry room for parents that wanted to hold their child. Another big fuss.:001_huh: I was totally confused by it.

 

Yeah, that's really wierd! We have that type of system - you MUST have the return ticket to pick up the child. They told us from the beginning, "You MUST have it or you'll have to go through fingerprinting and other i.d. stuff to get your child. Seriously. Don't misplace it. We don't release any child to a parent without the return ticket." I love a cry room. I wasn't in a church that had one when it was relevant to my life.

 

When I was a teenager, a child was kidnapped from the church nursery by the non-custodial parent. I remember that so vividly. There was no security procedure and, I assume, the child went readily to the dad, though the dad was not supposed to have the child. :angelsad2: I've never forgotten watching the distraught mom give the police report.

[FO4UR]

I agree. When my dh came home and told me about the kiss thing, I was shocked that he just stood there and let him do that! After confronting dh about it, he got defensive and told me that since I didn't grow up in the South, I don't realize that that is a very southern thing to do. (the guy is southern) Exuse me, we've lived in the south for our whole adult lives, and I do not remember even *one* instance of a man asking for a kiss from our young daughter like that! I still can't believe he was trying to defend the situation... but it's probably because I came on strong about his allowance of it. I guess you could say my dh is not yet convinced like I am... he always gives people the benefit of the doubt. That's why I said before sometimes I think he just is responding to *my* alarm and not his own.

 

With all due respect for your dh, I would not let dd out of MY sight at church - EVER!!!! If mama is sick - dd stays home. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The creepy guy scares me - but your dh's response scares me more!

 

...and, my dh is slow to pick up those clues sometimes too...and he has down-played some things that I totally *RED FLAGGED* on - and was right about...(like being approached in a parking lot...then seeing on the news that a woman was abducted/raped/murdered from a parking lot in the area within a couple weeks of my incident....dh thought I was over-reacting:001_huh:) I learned from that - that while I trust, love and follow my dh - I sometimes have to draw a hard and fast line, even with him. He can chalk it up to appeasing his overprotective wife and we are both happy:D

 

Men are sometimes prone to having a pride issue over not sensing the danger that momma senses - you HAVE TO PUT THAT FOOT DOWN!!!!!! Don't raise your voice, don't cry, just simply refuse to let dd out of your sight. Refuse to let dd go to church w/o YOU there!

 

Well, yesterday he once again came up to my dh and dd and scooted his face down to my dd and said, "give me some sugar". My dh literally backed away as quick as he could and said, "Actually..." and the guy cut him off asking, "what, is she sick?". My dh then went on to tell him that one of the things we are training her on is not going to people outside the family, including giving hugs/kisses and that she needs to learn boundaries for her own safety, etc. The guy just responded, "oh, okay". And then my dh left. Sooooo, I'm really really glad my dh decided to rehearse what to say and actually did it.

 

 

Whew!!! Hopefully, my previous advise won't be needed.

 

Still, I think this guy needs to know you are watching him like a hawk and will make a good fuss if you see him grooming another child in the church.

 

Really - take a pic of him and take it to the police station. I don't like the thought of him just jumping to another church. It makes me sick to think of any child being harmed - mine or yours or any other child!!!

[Dianne-TX]

I agree with all the replies here -- stand your ground. I also wanted to suggest that even though you may have searched some sex offender databases, you may not know exactly what this man's aliases are and/or exactly what states he may have had any previous convictions. (I'm a criminal lawyer who deals with these types of cases all the time.) Go with your instincts -- it is always better to be safe than sorry. There is no need to apologize to anyone for protecting your child.

 

I've always said that I'm not as concerned about the ones that are registered (of course I'm concerned, but I know who they are), but I'm more concerned about the ones who haven't been caught! I can't remember where I read the statistic, but I remember hearing or reading that a child sexual predator can have 60 something victims before they are caught. Don't let your guard down and encourage your husband to do the same. If he is up to something, he'll keep trying to be stronger than you and husband until he sees his open door. You're having these feelings for a reason! I had a close relative that taught in the prison system for several years and she said it was amazing seeing how they operated. They are clever and their job is to outsmart you and break you down. Answer to your feelings. I know you are.

[Peek a Boo]

Really - take a pic of him and take it to the police station. I don't like the thought of him just jumping to another church. I

 

This is a VERY good piece of advice.

[SwimmyKids]

I didn't read all the replies, but:

 

Search his name in sex offender registries. Find out where he came from and search there as well.

[lorilou]

Good job Dad!

[KayT]

Please Bess. PLEASE be sure to speak to your Pastor about this. When this guy realises your family is not a good target he WILL move on to someone else. Other people may not have the same wariness as you. You have a duty to every child in that church to talk to church leadership about this so that they are aware of it. Imagine if you say nothing and he abuses another child!

 

I so agree with this and I hope that you have done this Bess. I may have missed that it has already been taken care of...but if not just hoping that you will!!!:001_smile:

[Michele B]

If you feel your "Spidy Senses" tingling (remember that?), there's a problem. You have God-given mothering instinct. Protecting your children is more important than hurting a grown man's feelings, in my opinion. He may be a really nice guy who loves kids and misses his own. But why risk it? If you are uncomfortable, keep your kids away. I have a friend whose young boys were molested at a family member's home by a young family member. She told me she felt that something was wrong, but told herself they were just in the bedroom playing video games, how could anything be wrong? Trust your instincts!

[gevs4him]

Bess,

It is wonderful that your Dh spoke up :hurray: - I know it might not be easy at times , but after reading Protecting the Gift -ooohhh! one needs to really be alert to their mommy vibes :)

Blessings

Lisa

Dd 18 and Ds 6

[sunshine]

Yes it would, and I would find it really annoying because the guy should be innocent until proven guilty, and I wouldn't be able to do him that courtesy.

 

Rosie

:iagree::glare:

 

If there were not so many sickos in the world we wouldn't have to worry about this. Ban Pornography. that is my stance. It wouldn't cure it but it would prevent new converts in many cases.

[Jumping In Puddles]

How has it been at church lately? Has Red Flag Guy tried again or did he move on to a new family?

[Elizabeth Conley]

In a general sense, I don't think most men who like to hold babies or toddlers are perverts.

 

This man makes you uncomfortable. That's all that needs to be considered. To me, the red flag is that your instincts are telling something's wrong. When your instincts are telling you something's wrong, you should listen.

 

I know several wonderful, decent men who can't resist babies and tots. I also know a baby girl who is a particular favorite with baby adoring people of both genders. In general, there's nothing wrong with a baby adoring man wanting to pay homage to a particularly charming tot.

 

On the other hand, even when someone doesn't present any overt threat whatsoever, you should trust your instincts.

[jujsky]

That sounds pretty creepy to me! Trust your Mommy-instinct.

[WiseOwlKnits]

I just saw this since it was bumped and was wondering about an update too? I hope he's leaving you all alone now!

[Catwoman]

I've been wondering how things are going, too. I hope all is well.

 

Cat

[Elizabeth Conley]

Excellent book on this subject:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Socially-Skilled-Child-Molester-Differentiating/dp/0789028050/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 

This book explains how the most common and prolific type of child molester operates. That is, the "groomer". Most serial child molesters insinuate themselves into the community and establish an unassailable reputation as an "incredibly nice guy", before they start molesting kids. Because of this strategy, they operate for a long time, even after children have started to report the abuse. The first couple of children to come forward are not believed, and suffer terribly for speaking out.

 

This book speaks to the part of child molestation prevention that is the family and the community's job to execute, not the child's. If you want to know how you can protect your children and the other children in your community, read this book.