How important is it for 13yo ds to show his work in math?

[Julpost]

We're using Saxon 8/7 and he tends to get some answers correct but gets there in this mixed up way, following his explanation is like being in a maze. I've been having him write the problem in an equation and then solving it. He's having a VERY difficult time doing this. He can explain how he got the answer but when he needs to write in down in a logical, step by step manner, he flounders. I don't know if it's because he doesn't know how to use the concept that the book is teaching and so thinks of the answer using easier concepts or what. I'm confused and wondering if I should continue making him follow through on the steps or should I let him work it out in his head and as long as the answer is correct, let it be. I hope this makes sense because I'm getting confused just explaining it!

[A.J. at J.A.]

We're using Saxon 8/7 and he tends to get some answers correct but gets there in this mixed up way, following his explanation is like being in a maze. I've been having him write the problem in an equation and then solving it. He's having a VERY difficult time doing this. He can explain how he got the answer but when he needs to write in down in a logical, step by step manner, he flounders. I don't know if it's because he doesn't know how to use the concept that the book is teaching and so thinks of the answer using easier concepts or what. I'm confused and wondering if I should continue making him follow through on the steps or should I let him work it out in his head and as long as the answer is correct, let it be. I hope this makes sense because I'm getting confused just explaining it!

 

As a former college Statistics instructor I say...MAKE HIM SHOW HIS WORK! It will benefit him far in the long run if he can show how he arrived at an answer. It forces him to slow down and organize his thoughts, it will also allow an instructor down the road (thinking college), to see where he got off track and give partial credit or better instruction where needed. My boys are in 2nd & 4th grade and I even make them show their work. :D Yes, they don't always like it, but they will appreciate it when they're grown.

 

Blessings,

Angela

[Pamela H in Texas]

I also agree that pre-algebra is the time to get in the habit of using normal algorithms and write out steps (though certain reasonable ones could be combined (such as combining X's AND numbers while on the same line).

 

Some kids will always find math more intuitive (I have two like that), but it does eventually catch up with most people. Also, they need to be able to use typical algorithms and show whatever level of problem solving a professor will later want.

 

Anyway, if I were to have another kid (not likely), I might even start earlier. I definitely won't ever wait again though. Pre-Algebra would be the year we focused on this.

[Melinda in VT]

If you think there is even a chance he'll take math at a public school at some point, I'd make him show his work. My son's math teachers are very strict about this, and they lose points for not showing their work even if the answer is correct. If I remember correctly, my college calculus prof was the same way.

[Night Elf]

We've been going through the same thing with our children. They are so used to doing mental math that they both think showing their work is juvenile. I left them alone for the longest time. But now ds12 has started Algebra and DH has him showing the work that involves multiple steps. The math is only going to get more complicated and DH has taken enough advanced math courses in high school and college to know that showing work is extremely important to the learning process. It's also a great method for rechecking incorrect answers. DH has insisted that dd11 begin showing all her work too. It's been good for both of them so far.

 

My dd11, for example, was furious when she was absolutely positive that she had the correct answer and her textbook didn't agree. We were able to go back and figure out she had the division problem wrong because she had the numerator and denominator reversed. :tongue_smilie:

[WTMindy]

high school math teacher weighing in here....make them show it! Not because you want them to do busy work, but because you are laying a foundation for solving equations that you CAN'T do in your head. You HAVE to get the steps down, and you have to do them neatly and consistently to get them right when they are more complicated. When my kids get to pre-alg/alg I make a deal with them. They no longer have to do the arithmatic by hand (writing out the multiplication or division) they can use a calculator for those, but they have to write out all the steps in solving equations.

[lynn]

I think they should show work for if there is an error in the answer you can follow the work to see what went wrong and why. Is is something simple liking adding instead of multiplying or is there a concept missed along the way.

[LisaKinVA]

I started requiring "shown" work at 5th grade math (well, anything that was worth showing... long multiplication/division/fractions/decimals...) There were a few things he could do "answers only" (makes it easier for correcting too... I can find the error in seconds!)

[AuntieM]

Makes it possible to give partial credit and it's easier to figure out where one went wrong.

 

I remember having teachers that would take points off for not showing work, even if the answer was correct. I have chosen to follow that pattern of grading as well, it has been helpful for my kids to train them this way.

[Tap]

Showing work is also important to make sure they are learning what the text is teaching, in the way they are teaching it, so it can be graded with the use of a textbook answer key. So, when the text starts using the different parts that it taught in lesson 20, 30 and 35, and combine it into an algebraic problem in lesson 50, they know how to do it, in the way the book will show the solution.

 

It is hard to figure out how someone got to an answer if there are multiple steps, and they did part of the steps in their head.

 

I don't expect to see simple multiplication, but I want to see the big steps to material the student should know easily, and all steps in new concepts.

[Impish]

I make Diva show her work, that way I can figure out where she's goofed if the answers are wrong (a rare thing, but can happen). As others have pointed out, math just gets more complicated with higher grades, so its a good habit to get into.

[Kathy in MD]

I also insist on ds showing his work, and that it be neat. I don't require that it be done as the solution book shows it, because there are often more than one way to tackle a problem, but the work has to be logical and valid.

[AnnetteW]

:iagree:Have him show the work even if it is different than how Saxon teaches it. There are usually multiple to get to the right answers. Those students that can use different methods will have it over those that almost "memorize" how to solve a problem.

 

I feel that they really understand "conceptually" what is going on.

 

My 2 cents worth,

 

Annette

[Miss Marple]

My oldest ds, in college, has had a hard lesson in the "show your work" arena of life. His physics and calculus 2 teachers give credit only for shown work. He's a great "mental math" guy and often skips steps - only to be docked points even if he got the right answer.

 

He came home last week with this admonition to his brothers: LEARN TO SHOW YOUR WORK!!!!!

[elegantlion]

I am going to show this thread to my ds so he doesn't think I'm such a mean mommy math teacher. :D

[ereks mom]

As others have pointed out:

1) If he shows his work, the teacher can see *exactly* where he went wrong if he gets the wrong answer to a problem. If there is a pattern to his mistakes, this can be "diagnosed" and then "treated".

2) Also, most teachers will give partial credit for getting the work right up to a certain point.

If the work has been done mentally, though, there's no way to know at what point he went wrong, so there's no way to find out where his misunderstanding lies, and no way to give partial credit.

[mcconnellboys]

Sorry, he sounds like my VERY right-brained older son. I struggled through algebra work with him, allowing him to get away with not showing work many times as long as he was consistently getting the correct answer. If he could not, we backed up and made him do at least a couple of problems showing his work.... How is he with geometry work? If it's effortless for him, that would reinforce right-brained thinking in my mind....

 

My son did go back to private school and has had some tussle with his teachers about showing his work as well, but more and more teachers are beginning to understand that some very right-brained people find this nearly impossible. All in all, he's done fine with his maths. The more complex the problems, the simpler they are for him - and you may find this true for your son, as well....

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I go back and forth on this too, especially since my kids who are finishing 7/6 tend to have an instinctive grasp of many of the concepts. So I try to be a little lenient.

 

But I do lower the boom on them when they get the question wrong and either 1) I can see that it is because they made a simple error because they were trying to hold it all in their head (say not carrying something correctly or converting a fraction incorrectly) or 2) I can't tell from what is on the paper where they made the mistake at all. I would also say that from my kids, an inability to explain the problem would indicate that they didn't really understand what they were doing (Dividing fractions is a good example. They often remember that they're supposed to do something with a reciprical but not what or why).

 

I like to give partial credit on tests but if there is no work, I won't give any credit at all for a wrong answer. I've also been known to assign extra supplemental problems if they are getting wrong answers and the work isn't shown. I will work one out for them to show the level of detail that I think they should have. The extra work is part practice and part penance.

 

I also like to use the example of scientists working things out but needing to share it with other scientists or engineers. It's not ok to just have the problem and then the answer. The other scientists and engineers need to be able to see their train of thought in order to share the insight or to critique it.

[WagsWife]

I do things a bit differently. DD *hated math. She was not bad at it...she just hated it. One day I happened to let her use a small white board to work her problems on, and she LOVED it! Now, she works the problem on the white board, then writes the answer on her answer sheet. If she gets a problem wrong, I have her use the big white board to rework the problem, telling me her thought process as she goes.

 

Example:

36/3= 12

 

She works the problem while telling me:

"3 goes into 3 one time.

1 times 3 is 3.

3 minus 3 is 0

bring down the 6

3 goes into 6 two times

2 times 3 is 6

6 minus 6 is 0"

 

Even when I was having her show her work on paper I would have her rework any missed problems in the above way, because it was easier for me to see where she went wrong with her thought process.

 

Is this going to totally mess her up??? Serious question here :)

[Melissa in Australia]

my son is in Saxon algebra 2, he does all of his math without showing his workings. He always works the problem out, and then works it backwards and makes sure he has the wright answer. he gets around 99% with his math. I know that it is preferable to show workings.

he has Dyslexia and finds it impossible to show workings. if I make him show workings he can no longer get his math right. I have read somewhere that this happens often with dyslexic people, it is the way they visualize in their head.

[LoriM]

I do things a bit differently. DD *hated math. She was not bad at it...she just hated it. One day I happened to let her use a small white board to work her problems on, and she LOVED it! Now, she works the problem on the white board, then writes the answer on her answer sheet. If she gets a problem wrong, I have her use the big white board to rework the problem, telling me her thought process as she goes.

 

Even when I was having her show her work on paper I would have her rework any missed problems in the above way, because it was easier for me to see where she went wrong with her thought process.

 

Is this going to totally mess her up??? Serious question here :)

 

I think it sounds like you are doing things perfectly. I'm teaching fulltime in the classroom again this year, and we use a whiteboard for our students in our school in 4th and 5th grades.

 

The way you are doing it sounds ideal in both camps. First, she has the opportunity to do her work in a fun way, and then if she makes mistakes, she gets immediate feedback from an instructor. Do you have her grade her own answers? I would, absolutely, give her access to the answers after she's completed her exercise set. If you find yourself in a situation where you don't have time to observe her solutions on a white board, then I'd have her do her "best handwritten" version of the solutions for those problems she missed.

 

The only other caveat I'd add is that I'd have her write the PRACTICE problems on paper (the 5-10 problems that relate to the new material), using the methods taught in the lesson. Then file that in her notebook for math for the year, followed by the answers she's graded and corrected from her daily work. Then you have good math records.

[LoriM]

my son is in Saxon algebra 2, he does all of his math without showing his workings. He always works the problem out, and then works it backwards and makes sure he has the wright answer. he gets around 99% with his math. I know that it is preferable to show workings.

he has Dyslexia and finds it impossible to show workings. if I make him show workings he can no longer get his math right. I have read somewhere that this happens often with dyslexic people, it is the way they visualize in their head.

 

My best friend in college (also a math major) was severely dyslexic. She found that she had to show her work, but that her methods were incomprehensible to most of us (even the fellow mathematicians). So, she got used to copying the problem, and copying one or two key steps, plus her final answer in *extremely* neat handwriting with a nice box around the answer. Then attaching a crazy, chicken-scratched piece of scrap paper from where she'd *actually* worked the problem. If her answers were accurate, instructors rarely ventured into the realm of decoding her scratch work (grin), but gave her full credit for showing her work.

 

It was a good compensation technique. :)

[Melissa in Australia]

My best friend in college (also a math major) was severely dyslexic. She found that she had to show her work, but that her methods were incomprehensible to most of us (even the fellow mathematicians). So, she got used to copying the problem, and copying one or two key steps, plus her final answer in *extremely* neat handwriting with a nice box around the answer. Then attaching a crazy, chicken-scratched piece of scrap paper from where she'd *actually* worked the problem. If her answers were accurate, instructors rarely ventured into the realm of decoding her scratch work (grin), but gave her full credit for showing her work.

 

It was a good compensation technique. :)

 

Thank you very much. very helpful:001_smile: