I REALLY need help. dd's are at each other's throats.

[snickelfritz]

If you could have seen the wrestling slam my 5 year old put on my 3 year old yesterday...yowsa....

 

Typical scenario...

A dd (usually 5 year old, but sometimes the 3 year old) is doing something. Other dd comes over and takes it away, or stomps it, or marks on it, etc... First dd tries to grab it back, pushes the other one, yells at her, hits her over the head with the object, etc....

 

Each episode escalates quickly and this is the point where I can usually get over to them. I separate them, they apologize, hug, ask for forgiveness, I put the object up, and usually put them both in timeout. It happened in a play area at the bookstore, today.:tongue_smilie: They had to clean up their mess and they had to leave early. Next time we go in, they will not be able to play (I was planning a trip there tomorrow just to emphasize it.)

 

It's not helping. The episodes are escalating in frequency, not diminishing. Any ideas on how to handle this in a different way?

[lollie010]

Any ideas on how to handle this in a different way?

 

 

No, but with a 5 yo and 3 yo of my own I can certainly sympathize. Each day I begin with a new resolve to teach them how to work out their differences in a calm and reasonable manner. Some days it works (yesterday) and some days it doesn't (today).

 

When they are working/playing well together I do not want to interrupt them, but I have learned to listen for the cues that someone is getting frustrated and step in before a brawl begins.

 

I will be diligently watching this thread.

 

Laurel T.

[Ali in OR]

I guess the strategy that I revert to most is that if they do not play well together, if there is any screaming, if they are disturbing my peace, then all of a sudden it is chore time. Time to clean up their room, clean up their messes around the house, etc. We all hate it. They don't really want to stop playing and I don't really want to stand over them to make them work. So sometimes it's enough to make them cooperate and get along. And sometimes it's not. Strategy number 2 is me commenting that they must not be getting enough sleep if they are acting like this and bedtimes get moved a half hour earlier. And I think there is some truth to it--they really do have more problems if they've been up too late or got up too early.

[Mari]

and go buy this book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Have-New-Kid-Friday-Character/dp/0800719026/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231394842&sr=8-2

 

It will change your life.

 

--Mari

[snickelfritz]

I'll see if I can find that book.

 

And they definitely do better if I can stay RIGHT there. We did a lot of that yesterday and it was better. But, we still had the incident at the park and the bookstore.

 

It is worse if they are low on sleep. The younger as recently dropped her nap. So, I think she's running a bit grumpy. She really needs about a 15 minute catnap to keep her happy, but that's hard to orchestrate.

[Melinda in VT]

Can you get them to work together? Maybe reward them with a star or a point or a token for every X amount of time they interact appropriately and then give them a joint reward (movie or special snack or outing) when they have earned X number of points?

 

My brother and I did not get along for oh, about a decade or so, and I remember that right before we became friends we would sometimes collaborate to get a special treat. (Usually, we would decide we wanted to go out to eat or to a movie that night, so we would work together to clean the house before our parents got home from work.)

[laylamcb]

Dear, I've got nothin' for you except hope: I have one sister, two years younger just like your girls, and we fought constantly. Over everything. Little. Big. Silly. Stupid. Everything.

 

As different as we are (introvert v. extrovert), we are the very, very best of friends now. She's...she's the other me; I can't imagine life without her. And really, it didn't take us THAT long to get there: As soon as I graduated from high school, the tension was over. (Yes, I know that seems like a LONG time from now for you, but really, it'll fly by.)

 

So I've got no solutions for you except to say that there's HOPE, Mama. :grouphug: :001_smile:

[Pamela H in Texas]

IMO, you need to become proactive, rather than reactive.

 

First thing I'd do is practice thinking/problem solving skills with them over time. Role playing, games, practicing helps A LOT. If you don't know where to start, check out Raising a Thinking Child by Myrna Shure from the library. It was tested in childcare centers with preschoolers. It works!

 

My guess is that most of this behavior is simply attention getting or trying to get their way. They simply don't yet have the skills to do so appropriately so they do so inappropriately. Teach them to do it right and it'll be a lot better.

 

Second thing I'd do is implement stricter supervision ASAP. A lot of people just let too loose too early. You can't train kiddos if you're not right there to anticipate what is about to happen, stop it and redirect it. Coaching is VERY helpful with these young ages! This is one area where I think Godly Tomatoes got it right. Also, they are much less likely to do something they know is naughty when you are right there.

 

Third thing I'd implement is "blessing one another." If they are looking for, a couple times per day, a way to do something extra nice for their sibling, then they will have that more on their mind than bugging their sibling. For extra grins, they also learn to be self-sacrificing, kind, generous, etc.

[5knights3maidens]

I'm trying to figure out my 5 and 3 yr. old dds. they are always wrestling, slamming, hitting, except for this moment. They are happy and content with each other. They are more physical than my boys ever were! :confused:

[Blessedfamily]

You have a situation similar to mine. A three year old can't be expected to have the same self-control as a five year old (At least not the ones I deal with). They will be able to do some, but for my dd there was a big jump in maturity from 3 to 5.

 

I have a 5yo and a 1 yo and that point is very vivid around here. The older has to share, etc and of course the 1 yr old doesn't understand that. Frustrating for the 5yo, but I explain it to her and we work it out. It's just that the baby ALWAYS wants what she has. We have to redirect a lot.

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't expect anything from a 3yr, but you have to remind the 5yo that 3yo is a little less mature(in whatever way you phrase it).

Edited January 8, 2009 by Blessedfamily

[kewb]

When mine really go at it I make them hold hands. They have to do everything together (except the bathroom-the other has to sit outside the door). They really hate when I make them do that and I have not had to do it in years.

 

If they hit each other they know that increases their time together.

[dirty ethel rackham]

IMO, you need to become proactive, rather than reactive.

 

I was thinking the same thing. Another book recommendation is Siblings Without Rivalry. That book gave me lots of tips on creating peaceful relationships within my household.

[Joanne]

I separate them, they apologize, hug, ask for forgiveness, I put the object up, and usually put them both in timeout.

 

Honestly, I'd drop the apologies, hugs and forgiveness. They are insincere and, for the most part, ideas about feelings that are too sophisticated for young children. It's also imposing a feeling they don't feel (especially the hug part).

 

Let them *feel* how they feel. Teach them you expect them to *behave* appropriately regardless of feelings. "You may be angry, but you may not tackle". "You want to play with the toy, but you may not grab."

 

Related consequences:

 

If you misbehave in a public, child centered activity, you leave.

If you take something someone else has, you don't get to play with it at all.

If you constantly create problems, you play alone.

 

We have a "no touch play" policy here because I've discovered in most cases, allowing wrestling and touch and physical playfulness almost always results in kids who can't stop themselves from expressing their mixed feelings about their siblings.

[Storm Bay]

You're 5 yo sounds very physical--is your 3 yo, too? How to Really Love Your Child has some good advice. I'd be sure to give lots of hugs, etc, to your dds (but NOT when they've been fighting.) I'd give her some good physical outlets to help her spend her energy. I'd separate them for separate play sometimes, and not only as a consequence for disobedience. I'm a firm believer in teaching dc how to spend time alone as well as with others. Also, some kids just NEED that down time, whether or not they realize it themselves.

 

I'd also be right on it. Proactive in teaching, and teaching everytime they do this. Consequences are requisite, of course. But some kids just take a long time to get it. I have a wrestler among my 3--my 10 yo, and she can hold her own even with boys her age that outweigh her. But I don't allow her to pin my 8 yo if he isn't having fun, too.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Honestly, I'd drop the apologies, hugs and forgiveness.

 

I disagree about the apologies. Years ago, I would have agreed, but I truly believe we apologize when we wrong someone regardless of how we feel about it. It's just good manners. Sure, IDEALLY you'd really be sorry when you apologized, but an apology does not always mean you are truly sorry you wronged the person. It could mean a few things. But I think it's inappropriate to not teach this good manner to a child.

 

For example, many people don't really "feel" the "excuse me" either but we teach our burping, tooting, sneezing, etc kids to say it anyway. It's good manners even if we'd rather do or say nothing or something else entirely.

 

Hugs are a bit much. And they'll forgive each other easily enough anyway, but I don't think they can truly give forgiveness in the moment at 5yrs old.

[coralloyd]

I make sure that my 6 and 4 yr. old dds, hear often, often, often how blessed they are to have a sister to be thier best friend; also how it makes me, and Jesus feel when they are kind (and when they are mean) to each other. I coach them how to handle things the next time, " If your sister is bothering you, what should you do?" They answer,"Talk to her calmly, and if she doesn't listen come and ask Mamma for help."

Most likely they both wronged each other, there is rarely one innocent party ;). I seperate them immediately, a looong time (in kid time that is:)).

I always have my girls hug, kiss, look the other in the eye and apologize; but only after they have had time to cool off in thier own corners, and can tell me what they have done wrong. They must apologize to me and Jesus also. I even have my 2 yr. old apologize, hug and kiss me :); after I have sent him to the corner, for throwing a fit. This practice help them learn that the person they offended needs to KNOW that they are sorry. You know when your child is truely sorry or not. If they apologize in a flipant way, they oviously need more time to reflect on what they did wrong and how they made the other person feel. When they realize the hurt they've caused, their sorry.

If they hit, they have to sit on their hands while in the corner. Hugging afterwards is important because if they hurt with their hands they should do something loving with their hands, to mend that.

[Mari]

I make sure that my 6 and 4 yr. old dds, hear often, often, often how blessed they are to have a sister to be thier best friend; also how it makes me, and Jesus feel when they are kind (and when they are mean) to each other.

 

This is how it is in my house, too. My kids were taught from day one that they are each other's best friend, that no other friend in the universe matters more than their brother/sister. We try to convey our belief that our family and home is the domestic church. We cling to the words of John Paul II who said, "The family finds in the plan of God the Creator and Redeemer not only its identity, what it is, but also its mission, what it can and should do." Thankfully, our children are learning that they can show God's love in their joyful service and attitude toward each other.

[Mommy22alyns]

My girls are the same ages and I can relate. It's hard when the younger one drops the nap but still really needs it. Sylvia earns that BEAR title late in the day. I've found myself telling Becca, "Don't bug your sister in the afternoons!" :001_huh:

 

If they fight over a toy, they lose it altogether. I will separate them physically (as in, separate rooms) if they can't get along. Most of the time they come back out and start playing together again. I've taught Becca a lot about compromising and she's actually come up with some very mature, ingenious solutions to problems they have.

[Starr]

One thing that helped us was an hour or so when both children had time in their rooms resting or reading. If they share use two different rooms. We all loved the quiet time as everyone got used to it.