Junior year

[Roadrunner]

I wanted to get an advice if this seems heavy for a junior year or normal. Will delete details later (don’t quote please), but DS is taking 

AP English Language

AP Chem

AP Stats

AP French

DE US history

AP Micro (self study for exam, no class)

Linear Algebra

and a pre college philosophy class. 
 

He won’t budge on dropping or downgrading anything. Just wondering if this seems about normal for juniors. Or he is about to sink himself into doing too much and nothing well. 

[kirstenhill]

It's very common for Juniors at DS16's school to have a heavy AP load.  The difference might be that your son has two math classes.... though my DS did this last year with AP Stats and what was essentially two semesters of DE calculus (special program for high school students though, so it was a once a week class w/a lot of homework). 

It might depend on the amount of homework/reading for each class.  AP US History has the general reputation of being a real time sink in terms of homework and reading, but DS's teacher kept it super reasonable. 

For comparison, my junior will have

AP English

AP Physics 1 

AP Geography/ Econ (One semester each)

AP Com Sci

Data science / Robotics (?) (one semester each, but they are double period classes...I can't remember for sure if he opted for a robotics or if it was Engineering design)

DE Calc III/Linear Algebra (I think that is what they are doing...we just sign him up for "year 2" of this program he is doing, but I lost track of exactly what it covers this year). 

So, my DS has a bit easier schedule than yours, partly because he is not continuing on with a Foreign language and opted for some technical classes instead.  But he still could be taking 5 AP exams come spring! I don't think he will do all 5 exams though. Physics 1 doesn't seem very valuable in terms of credit, but they don't offer calc based at DS's school. 

[freesia]

24 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I wanted to get an advice if this seems heavy for a junior year or 

Whether it’s common or not is a relative question. No, it is not common most places. That is a very rigorous schedule and will likely be very stressful for him to manage. He may not be able to do anything else. Do some top students in some places (Bay area, NOVA, parts of Westchester, etc) attempt that type of schedule? Yes, they do. The fact it can be done, doesn’t mean it should be done. I would evaluate my total child before letting them do it. There will be a sacrifice of life balance. It may be worth it or it may not. I do know several students who were so burned out by that type of schedule that they took a gap year before college or after their freshman year. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t do it, just be aware that you are most likely in a sub culture that makes him feel like he has to do it—that everyone is doing it. They aren’t. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by freesia

[8filltheheart]

So much of the time commitment will depend on the class and ability and student motivation.  AP micro self-studied shouldn't be any more work than any avg high school class, especially if moving at yr pace vs. a semester bc it is only a semester course.  Stats isn't a difficult course.  How much busy work are the teachers going to assign.  That is really what is going to impact the his time.  Did he take Connie's chem class?  If so, AP chem should be very easy.  (My dd CLEPped out of 2 semesters of chem 2 yrs post that class with little effort and made an incredibly high score (in the 70s ETA: out of 80, in case you need context.).  The chem CLEP test only has a pass rate in the 30s% range.)  So how prepared and how much busy work matter.  His desire to take the load should make it doable in general.

Edited August 11, 2023 by 8filltheheart

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, 8filltheheart said:

So much of the time commitment will depend on the class and ability and student motivation.  AP micro self-studied shouldn't be any more work than any avg high school class, especially if moving at yr pace vs. a semester bc it is only a semester course.  Stats isn't a difficult course.  How much busy work are the teachers going to assign.  That is really what is going to impact the his time.  Did he take Connie's chem class?  If so, AP chem should be very easy.  (My dd CLEPped out of 2 semesters of chem 2 yrs post that class with little effort and made an incredibly high score (in the 70s ETA: out of 80, in case you need context.).  The chem CLEP test only has a pass rate in the 30s% range.)  So how prepared and how much busy work matter.  His desire to take the load should make it doable in general.

He is very high ability in both math and English. And yes he took Connie’s honors Chem, but it has been a couple of years. If he didn’t have a very time consuming extracurricular, I wouldn’t so so worried, but this schedule comes on top of fairly rigorous practice schedule. This is my PS kid, so I can’t control either quality or work load. Sigh. 

[RoundAbout]

This seems pretty heavy, but I agree that it depends on the student's background and temperment. We hate APs because  the pressure to work towards the test (DS did AP Calc BC and AP Stat last year, AP Chem 9th grade) but some students love them. Linear algebra is great because it looks impressive but usually isn't that hard. AP Chem isn't bad if they already had the background, and I imagine the same with foreign languages.

My rising junior is high-performing but does not like to be overloaded so he would absolutely balk at a schedule like this. He also wants to spend his junior year focused on his special interests (contest math, linguistics, and creative writing) and ditch the APs. Here's his junior year:

Honors BioChem (Clover Valley)

Olympiad Math (AoPS WOOT plus proof writing)

Spanish 2 (after 4 years of Lukeion Ancient Greek)

Creative Writing

Integrated 20th century US History/Literature

Data science programming/linguistics project

Edited August 11, 2023 by RoundAbout

[chiguirre]

What do his high-achieving classmates' schedules look like? If they're similar, he doesn't really have a choice if he's shooting for highly selective schools. If he does have some wiggle room and finds it's too much:

-deep six the Micro self-study first, it's not on his record and he can just do the CLEP the summer after high school if he wants to place out and he's attending a school that will accept it (or can get it transcripted at a community college and then transfer that credit)

-if it's still too much, I'd ditch the philosophy class. He can read on his own over the summer.

-if it's still too much, I'd drop the AP Stat class. This class will only work for the first semester of business statistics or for a social science statistics class. It won't exempt you from Engineering Statistics, so depending on his prospective major this class won't yield usable credit.

Good luck! High school is such a rat race if your student is shooting for lottery schools.

[vonfirmath]

2 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I wanted to get an advice if this seems heavy for a junior year or normal. Will delete details later (don’t quote please), but DS is taking 

AP English Language

AP Chem

AP Stats

AP French

DE US history

AP Micro (self study for exam, no class)

Linear Algebra

and a pre college philosophy class. 
 

He won’t budge on dropping or downgrading anything. Just wondering if this seems about normal for juniors. Or he is about to sink himself into doing too much and nothing well. 

That seems heavy to me -- though I do know some of our school's 11th graders are doing 4 AP tests this year.

My son is a 11th grader this year and it would be too much (in fact he was originally going to do AP Seminar and AP English and dropped both so his only APs will be Science and Math related

[Roadrunner]

@chiguirreso economics and philosophy is interest driven and he won’t negotiate it. Those are the only things he is looking forward to actually learning. I was really hoping he would drop French and take French 4 instead, but he won’t listen. What he really doesn’t want is AP Chem. But all strong students are expected in that class. 

[8filltheheart]

I suspect that history, philosophy, and French are going to be the determining factors in his time.  Econ is just not going to be a big deal.  I don't know anyone who has taken stats through a PS, but stats isn't normally much a time suck.  I suspect that with Connie's class as a base, AP chem is going to not be more than a refresher course with maybe the occasional need for more effort.  

What I would recommend to him is that he allow himself to pace the philosophy and econ courses in such a way that after he finishes the DE history course (which I am assuming is a single semester?) he can commit more time to them.  

 

[bibiche]

Could you not just have him take the DELF to demonstrate his level in French and skip the AP to free up his schedule?

[Roadrunner]

14 hours ago, bibiche said:

Could you not just have him take the DELF to demonstrate his level in French and skip the AP to free up his schedule?

You would think, but the closest location to us (2.5 hours away) no longer offers it unless you are taking classes through them. So we would have to drive into Los Angeles for that exam and that’s really, really far. I am skeptical of AP French since kids in the class are very weak and either the class is going to not prepare him for the exam or she will really want to push them and give a ton of work to compensate. Either way, it’s a mess. 
 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Roadrunner
spelling

[8filltheheart]

23 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

You would think, the the closest location to us (2.5 hours away) no longer offers it unless you are taking classes through them. So we would have to drive into Los Angeles for that exam and that’s really, really far. I am skeptical of AP French since kids in the class are very weak and either the class is going to not prepared him for the exam or she will really want to push them and give a tin of work to compensate. Either way, it’s a mess. 
 

Another option might be to investigate whether the Us he is interested in allow credit by dept exam.  If they do, would he be willing to drop down to French 4 and then take the U exam?

[ScoutTN]

My Dd took the French CLEP and got placement and credit the same as she would have for the AP. Agree that many schools will do the same with their internal placement exams. 

[Porridge]

10 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

He is very high ability in both math and English. And yes he took Connie’s honors Chem, but it has been a couple of years. If he didn’t have a very time consuming extracurricular, I wouldn’t so so worried, but this schedule comes on top of fairly rigorous practice schedule. This is my PS kid, so I can’t control either quality or work load. Sigh. 

DD said AP Chem test was "exactly like Ms. Connie's homework" when she walked out of the exam. She did the Adv Honors Track, but I think that might have been the honors track a few years ago?  So hopefully he will be well prepared, even if he's a little rusty.

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

My Dd took the French CLEP and got placement and credit the same as she would have for the AP. Agree that many schools will do the same with their internal placement exams. 

We aren’t worried so much about credits. It’s more a matter of “having completed four years of French with the highest course offered.” He is skipping over French 4 to go straight to AP with his teacher’s encouragement. I keep telling him to take it slow and get an easy A and pace out APs. 

[vonfirmath]

5 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

I suspect that history, philosophy, and French are going to be the determining factors in his time.  Econ is just not going to be a big deal.  I don't know anyone who has taken stats through a PS, but stats isn't normally much a time suck.  I suspect that with Connie's class as a base, AP chem is going to not be more than a refresher course with maybe the occasional need for more effort.  

What I would recommend to him is that he allow himself to pace the philosophy and econ courses in such a way that after he finishes the DE history course (which I am assuming is a single semester?) he can commit more time to them.  

 

My son took AP Stats last year.  It has had the most math homework of any math class he has been in yet.

 

[Roadrunner]

16 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

My son took AP Stats last year.  It has had the most math homework of any math class he has been in yet.

 

PAH class? 
 

I know when my older boy took PAH class it was a lot of work, and he felt he could have self studied for a 5 in just two-three months tops. 

[vonfirmath]

11 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

PAH class? 
 

I know when my older boy took PAH class it was a lot of work, and he felt he could have self studied for a 5 in just two-three months tops. 

No. Public School. He took AP Stats as a 10th grader because he'd already taken through geometry and I wanted to give him another year of math before going into calculus. 

[Roadrunner]

49 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

No. Public School. He took AP Stats as a 10th grader because he'd already taken through geometry and I wanted to give him another year of math before going into calculus. 

We were told to expect a tsunami of homework from AP English and AP Chem. 

[teachermom2834]

It will be school/instructor dependent on the amount of homework and busywork but that isn’t an outrageous schedule for high achievers. The general population would say “that’s nuts!” but there is a cohort in most schools doing that sort of schedule and many of the kids are even playing sports/doing theatre, etc so it isn’t totally outrageous depending on the kid. 
 

My dd’s school has kids taking 8 credits with one being a required religion course. A few kids every year manage to stack the other 7 slots with APs and de and are still really active in school and do well. It’s not for most kids but some can do it for sure. And her school isn’t even one of the really competitive ones. 
 

But most kids would melt. But lots of kids we talk about on here aren’t most kids!

[vonfirmath]

11 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

We were told to expect a tsunami of homework from AP English and AP Chem. 

My son pulled back to regular English this year because he's been struggling in Advanced English already so decided to try to focus his attention in subjects he could be more successful in.  Writing is not something that comes easily to him though he LOVES to read.

He is taking AP physics this year.

I took AP chemistry in HS -- it was my second chemistry year and I remember LOVING it. The chemical equations was like puzzles and so much fun.