Effects of the pandemic / pandemic response on today and the future

[SKL]

I think this is an intriguing and important topic, but it always seems to get caught up in politics.  Can we have a completely non-political discussion, now that the past is the past?

What are the results of the pandemic and pandemic response (long shutdowns, etc.), in these or other categories ... and what can we do about them now?

• Child development - specific to age groups.
• Educational gaps / delays.
• Additional learning / awareness that wouldn't have otherwise occurred.
• Mental health issues.
• Long term changes to the economy (good or bad).
• The way we view our fellow humans.
• The way we view ourselves.

I have a lot of thoughts in various stages of development.  What are your thoughts?  Any interesting, non-political research?

[vonfirmath]

I know our district is seeing a drop of about 2% in average daily attendance. (from 98% to 96 -- does not sound like much but since Texas pays on ADA, it means millions of dollars to the district)

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by vonfirmath

[prairiewindmomma]

I think we learned several things:

1. Our poor health generally, and our poor access to social supports made us fair badly as a nation compared to similar ones: https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/excess-deaths-gap-widened-us-europe

2. Learning delays were worldwide, and hit disproportionately against already disadvantaged peoples in every community: https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/education/our-insights/how-covid-19-caused-a-global-learning-crisis

3. Science matters, and proper access to healthcare is vital

4. Viral exposure continues to be linked to ongoing autoimmune dysfunction in a shocking % of people—not only is COVID “not done”, but long-COVID is going to continue to affect a significant portion of working age people for a long, long time if not forever. It’s not only a quality of life issue, it’s also an economic one

Our schools have been doing social learning focuses that are trauma informed, have been providing extra tutoring, and have been funding activity buses (transport home from after school activities) to try to lessen some of the impact. We aren’t far enough out to see testing results yet (just finished spring testing) but I am interested to see them. Unfortunately it is difficult to determine what % of current student stress is “leftover” COVID stress and how much of it is due to other crisis issues.

[Clemsondana]

I think that rhetoric did a lot of damage to how people view each other.  In many instances, instead of the discussion being 'I don't think the cost-benefit on this policy makes this a worthwhile policy' and the response being 'I think that the policy is worthwhile for reason X, supported by data Y' with similar back and forth, it devolved to 'you're killing people' and 'you don't care about people'.  These can be applied to both sides of many policies - this isn't meant to be partisan.  But, statements like these are hard to come back from on a relationship level, and ultimately relationships are what makes society work.  I know people who left organizations that they had been a part of for decades, not over disagreement, but over how people talked to each other. 

People also lost the ability to 'work in groups' and some seem to be unable to turn off the 'must protect my family' mentality that they developed.  With covid policy being less of an issue, that intensity is being directed at anybody who disagrees with them on anything, anywhere.  People who run groups locally are struggling to deal with the extent to which people want everything individualized.  It's been interesting to watch.  Here, the least disrupted thing was kids athletics.  And, the place where I'm seeing the least change in behavior is kid athletics.  It's like...people never got out of the groove of how to do this, so they're trucking along like it's 2019, while other aspects of life that were more disrupted are struggling more. 

I think we also developed an understanding that the fact that our various groups and activities don't just spontaneously happen.  I think that people have been shocked at how hard it has been to rebuild groups that were once very important to people.  All it takes is a little turnover and you have an entirely different thing.  

I think we're going to see odd effects in the future because different places handled things so differently.  The learning gaps aren't just going to be economic, they'll be geographic.  Schools in some areas were closed for 2 months in spring of 2020, while others were closed for a year.  Even within some states there were huge differences.  I don't know how that will affect future college classes and employment situations.  

I think we're in a weird situation where we simultaneously realized that we need to get healthier while instead we got less healthy.  We aren't good at fixing this long-term problem, but hopefully as individuals people will try to move towards better health.  

 

 

[kristin0713]

(Edit - these are just personal things that I have noticed in our own lives)

DD started 9th grade in fall 2020. She is now entering her senior year and I think the pandemic completely changed the trajectory of her life. I feel like she missed out on prime time for mature growth and she is still recovering socially. It also took a huge toll on her mental health.  

For both of my kids, they were virtually screen-free prior to the pandemic. Then it all went out the window and there was no turning back. I absolutely believe that video games have been bad for my DS (15)'s ADHD. He has not taken as much of a hit in maturity and he is thriving now socially, but I do wish we never went down the path of video games. It was pretty much for survival during covid. 

It seems that so many businesses are still suffering due to staff shortages. 

On a positive note, I think there are more online options for everything now, from education to ordering food, and I like that. 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by kristin0713

[SKL]

On the practical level, I think kids who were "online schooled" lost a year of math, of not more (on average).  It seems that schools are expecting kids to have caught up by now, somehow, without having any additional help.  Not sure how this is going to translate into college admissions and classes.

Working together less as adults ... I think it has both negatives and positives.  (It's hard for me to evaluate since I have always been happiest working alone.)  It's probably good that we have less need for new office buildings etc.  But real "face time" has value too.  Maybe we can get that back but with fewer physical walls....

[Carol in Cal.]

In my case, radical pruning of outside commitments is an ongoing thing.  I developed a habit of testing activities and invitations against the question of ‘Is this worth my life?’ And while I don’t continue that dramatically, I am more likely to tilt toward zoom meetings when in person travel is inconvenient, and reserve in person commitments for things that are truly crucial.  

Also, I was confirmed in my ‘have a larder’ POV, particularly with respect to medicines and medicinal nutrients.

And, I will never take being able to go to church for granted again.  What a gift!

[SKL]

11 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

(Edit - these are just personal things that I have noticed in our own lives)

DD started 9th grade in fall 2020. She is now entering her senior year and I think the pandemic completely changed the trajectory of her life. I feel like she missed out on prime time for mature growth and she is still recovering socially. It also took a huge toll on her mental health.  

For both of my kids, they were virtually screen-free prior to the pandemic. Then it all went out the window and there was no turning back. I absolutely believe that video games have been bad for my DS (15)'s ADHD. He has not taken as much of a hit in maturity and he is thriving now socially, but I do wish we never went down the path of video games. It was pretty much for survival during covid. 

It seems that so many businesses are still suffering due to staff shortages. 

On a positive note, I think there are more online options for everything now, from education to ordering food, and I like that. 

 

My kids also went into 9th in fall 2020.

On the personal side for us, the list of regrets and setbacks is too long to write.  Some highlights / lowlights:

• We all went into such a funk in 2020.  I think the kids are OK now, but I think I'm still personally not where I was before.
  • Both of my kids had counseling / therapy.  Not sure whether or not that would have been needed absent the shutdown.
• Any athletic competitiveness / drive was pretty much lost forever.  We also never really got back to church and several other once-valued activities.
  • Arguably they were doing too much before the pandemic, so dropping some things was good, but not everything all at once.
• Accountability.  The teachers let pretty much everything slide for at least 2 years.  This was the age when our kids were supposed to be learning how to study and how to manage higher learning.  For that matter, I let too much slide at home (re kids' responsibilities).  Nobody bothers to cook or clean or take care of the dog at an age-appropriate level.  Nobody eats healthy.
• Socially, everything was electronic, meaning relatively untrustworthy, and again, a lot less accountable.
  • On the positive side, connections to real people were not lost, and they do get together in person now.
  • Another offshoot of this is that kids don't talk to us to learn about things.  I haven't had nearly enough talks with them about important big picture things.
• My kids hardly know my folks at this point.  😞  For that matter, I hardly have any friends as far as they know.
• I think we got a warped sense of personal and community finance.  Like, is the cost of home delivery worth it?  Health/safety measures were not paid for in real time, so I feel this gave young people a distorted understanding of cost/benefit.
• Getting their first job was relatively easy, so that was good.
• I think kids learned more about biology and technology.  Though I'm not sure how well they understand that "it's on the internet" doesn't mean "it's true."  Or "I got x likes/views" doesn't mean "people do/don't value me as a person."
• I also feel there was hidden anxiety whenever anyone was sick, even though nobody we know was lost or permanently sickened by Covid.  I can't imagine that not having lasting effects.

There's probably a lot more that isn't coming to me now.  (I should be working ....)

[Clarita]

Well, my eldest had hours long tantrums many times a week (3 at the onset of pandemic lockdowns). There's evidence pandemic was traumatic for him and caused anxiety and depression. My youngest didn't know how to make and have friends (not quite 2 at the onset of pandemic lockdowns) until about last weekend.

Getting back to normal finally this past school year has seen great improvements in my children. 

For context we live in CA and in an area where pandemic was taken very seriously. Some "rules" that were in place at various points (I'm not sure how truly enforceable these were although these are the ones that were largely followed), one family member allowed to visit store at a time, 8pm curfew, closures of parks and play structures (some people absolutely for good reason hopped the barricades with their kids), in-person dining bans, shelter-in-place mandates/requests, library/museum/zoo closures, no in-person anything including outdoor sports for at least a year, and mask requirements for all in-person activities/gatherings/public or semi-public spaces. I name these because it seems other places may not have been as strict.   

[Dmmetler]

One benefit for me was that I've realized that getting sick IS a lot more under my control. Running HEPA filters in my studio and enforcing "if you're sick, or someone in your family is sick, stay home, I have two weeks for makeups built into the calendar" policies and masking in crowded situations, on planes, and in other high exposure situations are things I'm never giving up. 

 

And I really hope that one lesson we take from this as a society is that-that HEPA filters and open windows are cheaper than missing work and school, and that being IN school at at work and living life with masks is better than being at home without them. 

 

 

[Clarita]

Just now, Dmmetler said:

One benefit for me was that I've realized that getting sick IS a lot more under my control. Running HEPA filters in my studio and enforcing "if you're sick, or someone in your family is sick, stay home, I have two weeks for makeups built into the calendar" policies and masking in crowded situations, on planes, and in other high exposure situations are things I'm never giving up. 

I do appreciate some of these changes with regards to children's activities. There is less show up to classes no matter what policies and more please stay home if you are sick (also compliance from parents on that front too). 

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Clarita said:

I do appreciate some of these changes with regards to children's activities. There is less show up to classes no matter what policies and more please stay home if you are sick (also compliance from parents on that front too). 

 

I too am glad that parents can decide to keep kids home without having to prove anything, and policies are less punitive.  Before, the absence and make-up policies were so draconian that it was often better to send kids to school sick.  I hope this change is permanent ... but it probably won't be....

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

I think that rhetoric did a lot of damage to how people view each other.  In many instances, instead of the discussion being 'I don't think the cost-benefit on this policy makes this a worthwhile policy' and the response being 'I think that the policy is worthwhile for reason X, supported by data Y' with similar back and forth, it devolved to 'you're killing people' and 'you don't care about people'.  These can be applied to both sides of many policies - this isn't meant to be partisan.  But, statements like these are hard to come back from on a relationship level, and ultimately relationships are what makes society work.  I know people who left organizations that they had been a part of for decades, not over disagreement, but over how people talked to each other. 

 

I think we also developed an understanding that the fact that our various groups and activities don't just spontaneously happen.  I think that people have been shocked at how hard it has been to rebuild groups that were once very important to people.  All it takes is a little turnover and you have an entirely different thing.  

1st paragraph--in some places, this was rhetoric, but in others, it was reality. People here were terrible. I think of very few people as nice anymore. It's more like, "Nice as long as I don't need them to consider me a fellow human." 

Activities--this is how activities have always been for my family due to a lot of circumstantial things. Instead of understanding that getting groups to work is hard, and people often make sacrifices to be there, it seems like the pandemic reinforced that anything that made "normal" life hard for people is anathema. So, if you had hoped for some empathy about what it's like to work around an unusual circumstance, you won't get it. You are seen as an outlier and part of the problem. We're all supposed to go with the flow, and around here, that means denying all reality. 

Pandemic shortages have caused permanent changes in at least some spending habits in specific industries. I'm working PT at a seasonal nursery job, and people are buying their plants so, so early. Half are pissed that we didn't put out pepper plants early (they are far more vulnerable to temp changes that tomatoes), and the other half are pissed that they can't still buy cold weather crops in May. It's unrealistic. Apparently it's gotten worse each spring since 2020. Each year, it starts earlier, and people are so mean about it. We have specific sales we run each year, and they are now at Black Friday level of nuttiness and pettiness. 

2 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

And, I will never take being able to go to church for granted again.  What a gift!

We never really shut down church here--some opted to shut down briefly. And churchgoers were the least likely to love their neighbor while loudly saying and doing mean stuff. I don't think I'll ever feel completely comfortable in church again even though we've left the church we were at. My kneejerk reaction is to be super protective around church people now. We were previously the type to never miss a chance to be there if the doors were open (although I will admit to missing parts of the big weeklong yearly event because it was always around my birthday, and I just didn't really feel like giving up my birthday every year).

[Ausmumof3]

People are still getting sick and hospitals get overwhelmed every covid wave. More money is being invested in health so hopefully that’s positive.
 

I overheard someone yesterday say they don’t think their immune system recovered post-covid. There’s still a lot of illness related absence.

I spoke to someone this week who has managed to keep the work from home arrangement they started during Covid, which they live.

People who lost their jobs or were stood aside on full pay due to not vaccinating are pretty resentful. At least one I know of has a very poor relationship with coworkers now because he feels they didn’t care about him or sympathise. 
 

For me personally, I’m still masking in risky environments and I’m definitely finding it makes new relationships hard. People who knew me pre-Covid19 don’t care but situations where I’m meeting new people haven’t been so great.

A couple of people never returned to church. They are both more vulnerable, but I’m not sure if that’s their reason.

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Ausmumof3

[bookbard]

Interestingly enough, the academic research in Australia shows that there wasn't any real 'learning loss' from the lockdowns (the worst hit state, Victoria, still ended up with the highest reading scores), and for some kids - especially kids with learning disabilities - they actually did better. The researchers don't really know why this is, except:

a) bullied kids got a real break, There was a drop in suicides (this is in the USA as well) and a lift in mental health.

b) maybe some parents got to see what their kids were doing and helped them/got online tutoring. There was govt-paid tutoring afterwards too - still is.

I wish we could have another lockdown, honestly, just for a month. The first one in 2020 actually helped a lot of people (Australian research). The stress people are under now to do everything is intense - I think people need to be given permission to take a break. 

In terms of the whole world, it's clear to me that no matter what, making money will take precedence over everything. We literally solved poverty during the pandemic by increasing income support. If they'd kept that up rather than spending trillions on submarines, the whole country would be doing so much better. Yes, we have inflation, but the recent research shows that the two major food suppliers in Australia lifted their prices not in response to inflation, but to take advantage of it. So many big businesses profiteered. 

The other thing is that there are some really dodgy scientists out there who will do anything for likes and attention. Go take a look at the book 'We Want Them Infected'. It's really frightening. 

Finally, it's 100% clear that leaders are everything. People were united, happy to wear masks, happy to be vaccinated in Australia. And now look - there's no information that covid is airborne out there unless you look for it, leaders don't mask, and in fact they don't even mention Covid. 

[kbutton]

32 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

For me personally, I’m still masking in risky environments and I’m definitely finding it makes new relationships hard. People who knew me pre-Covid19 don’t care but situations where I’m meeting new people haven’t been so great.

A couple of people never returned to church. They are both more vulnerable, but I’m not sure if that’s their reason.

I lost a ton of old friends over masking and covid in general. It's less of a problem with newer people, TBH. 

Churches here had a giant resorting, and I suspect a lot of people are still not back to attending. People who are immune-compromised mostly feel thrown under the bus at church. Our new church masked at the time, but we weren't there when that was happening. There are some other families that still mask at least some of the time at church.