s/o how to handle a a situation in a job interview? (Please don't quote)

[Halftime Hope]

I've been working as an executive assistant to CEOs for the past almost-10 years, and I was laid off in a very painful cost-cutting measure, along with several others who would also be considered critical-position people; it wasn't due to poor performance.

So I had an interview and was offered a job, but I had some concern about good fit in the organization. I asked for a second interview to ask appropriate questions. It turns out that both of my concerns were spot on, and the job offer was rescinded. (Ouch.)

One of the areas of concern was unique to that situation; I don't expect it to carry over to any other job.

My second area of concern related to expectations and performance, and the reason is because I've had the worst of all bosses on communicating expectations, and I've also had the best. I was in the "worst" for three times as long, and I don't want a repeat. (I went for many years with a boss who was entirely dysfunctional in areas of communication and any kind of normal collaboration -- he would sneak in and out of the office and hide from the office staff. Feedback and performance reviews, which were part of that organization's yearly process, were completely out of the question.) So in this new job situation I asked, "How will I know that I'm meeting your expectations for me?" "How do you communicate with direct reports, so they can be on the same page with what you are thinking?"

They asked why I asked that question, and I said that it was important to me to be aligned with their goals and expectations; I needed feedback to be on the same page with them. When pushed by their questioning a bit more, I also said that in one of my employment situations, I had not had good feedback, and it kept me from really supporting a boss as well as I could have. (Clearly that was a mistake...I won't make it again. I'll say that I know that my ability to be on target hinges on communication or something like that...suggestions are welcome.) 

After my second interview, the people that offered the job phoned me and rescinded the offer; they said it was because they would not be able to provide the feedback and structure I wanted. They needed someone who could work independently. Sheesh. They completely mis-understood that. (Or I didn't communicate clearly, but the words I used were clear.) The vast majority of my work was independent, self-directed work, aside from the requests to schedule this, or book that. They had, however, made up their minds. 

So, that sad tale aside, can you help me with how to address this need? I need good communication to be able to succeed, but I need to be able to communicate that need as a benefit to the boss.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Halftime Hope

[Guest]

Honestly, it sounds like it *wouldn't* have been a good fit and they do want something different from what you want. 
 

I am not sure if this addresses it in the right way for you, but I told my former boss that I strongly believe in direct communication and asking questions. I said something like, “I am not at all too proud to ask questions and one thing I *wont ever* do is pretend I know what I’m doing when I don’t. I’m going to ask questions *until* I am clear.” Part of why I said that is because it became apparent my predecessor did not ask questions and buried things when she didn’t understand them. (Which is a crucially bad practice (malpractice) in the field of law. He was literally one month shy of potential malpractice in one case because my predecessor filed a Complaint with the court and it was rejected. She buried that in the file and did nothing!) 

So I’m not sure if going from that angle will help you? 

[Grace Hopper]

Sigh, I am sorry it is a challenge for prospective employers to hear that question. After an interaction(s) last week I was grumbling about how inefficient it was for me to have to send repeated clarifying emails to a supervisor because she didn’t answer all the questions I asked in her first reply. My dh runs into it, too, and we believe it’s a widespread problem. 
 

I’m not sure how to communicate it clearly in the the job search process though. Maybe some phrasing around the word efficient?

I’m sorry the layoff put you back in the job hunt. 

[Katy]

Something like, “How would you evaluate yourself on communication skills? Have your communication skills been criticized in the past by people in this position?”

And, “What is the most common frustration in this job?”

Edited March 15, 2023 by Katy

[JennyD]

When you interview for these positions, are you interviewing with the CEO for whom you'd be an assistant?  Or with gatekeepers (e.g., HR people)?

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

You have to trust that it wasn't the right fit. If they are nervous about hiring the right person then they probably misread your questions to mean you expect or need a lot of hand holding or that you are drawing from a past negative experience where you were fired for not meeting expectations. It happens, you are doing the right thing to seek to learn from it, but ultimately trust that what is meant for you will not be so complicated. 

[Wheres Toto]

I worked as an Executive Assistant for over 20 years and I don't see anything wrong with your reply.  Unfortunately, you never know how something you say is going to be (mis)interpreted.  I once interviewed for a job and said something about liking to see project through to completion and they decided it meant I couldn't multi-task.   HR in that case did send me to interview with another department and I ended up in an absolutely amazing position until the company was sold.  

Maybe try ask the person you will be supporting directly how they like to be contacted to answer questions about a project and see what they answer.  Something super vague or dismissive may indicate a problem in that area. 

[Halftime Hope]

2 hours ago, JennyD said:

When you interview for these positions, are you interviewing with the CEO for whom you'd be an assistant?  Or with gatekeepers (e.g., HR people)?

 

Not with gatekeepers.  You just never know how people are going to interpret something, that's why I'm asking for feedback.  Thank you!

 

[Clarita]

Honestly I would have thought the first question was a good clear question to address this. When I worked for companies that were good in this area, I'd probably just answer your question. Like the response might be bi-annual/annual reviews in addition our company emphasizes regular meetings between managers and subordinates those happen biweekly/monthly/quarterly. That's where you would address blah blah blah.

The fact that they needed clarification may mean that they really aren't doing that, because the person fielding you question doesn't know what enough communication/feedback looks like. In terms of their response to you I wouldn't think too deeply about it. If for example the manager doesn't ever show up to work they won't rescind the offer and say "Well this is not going be a good fit because your manager spends the bulk of his time golfing and will just blame everything on you." Instead they will say "Oh I don't think we'll be a good fit because we can't provide the communication you need." (I'm purposefully being outlandish. ) 

[JennyD]

25 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

Not with gatekeepers.  You just never know how people are going to interpret something, that's why I'm asking for feedback.  Thank you!

 

So you are interviewing directly with the CEO for whom you would be an assistant?  

I'm asking because I think that the best way to get at the information you want is different depending on whether you are interviewing with the CEO him/herself, or whether you're interviewing with someone who has been tasked by the CEO to hire an executive assistant.  

Edited March 15, 2023 by JennyD

[kbutton]

5 hours ago, Halftime Hope said:

They needed someone who could work independently.

They really might mean that they want you to read their minds. My poor husband had a change of leadership at one job where they went from having important meetings to expecting people to figure things out at the water cooler, but it wasn't a water cooler kind of job at all. Then they said awesome things about him in his review, which was also a two-second long, "Here, sign this" process and then told him later that they had given him feedback about things he needed to fix. They didn't. At some point, the group lost their contract. Many people were rehired, but I guess things really went into the ground.

It was really a blessing that he ended up in his new job before everyone else ended up jumping ship later! Another non-rehire works there and is likewise happy to have dodged that bullet.

I swear that dysfunctional people like the people around them to be compatibly dysfunctional because they don't want to have to change what they do.

3 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

After an interaction(s) last week I was grumbling about how inefficient it was for me to have to send repeated clarifying emails to a supervisor because she didn’t answer all the questions I asked in her first reply. My dh runs into it, too, and we believe it’s a widespread problem. 

Yep!

I think that you might not know how communication will be at any job until you start working there. I hate that, but I think it's true. 

[Halftime Hope]

2 hours ago, JennyD said:

So you are interviewing directly with the CEO for whom you would be an assistant?  

Yes. It's an appropriate question: to do my job well, I want to know that the boss person communicates well with direct reports, and I clearly expressed the reason: I needed it to do my job well. 

I asked the very same question at another job interview, got a completely different but entirely reasonable answer, and there was no offense for asking.  That's how it should be.

I must have triggered something in this person, so that's why I'm thinking this over. How do I ask this in a non-threatening way?

Thanks!

Edited March 16, 2023 by Halftime Hope

[Halftime Hope]

12 minutes ago, kbutton said:

They really might mean that they want you to read their minds. My poor husband had a change of leadership at one job where they went from having important meetings to expecting people to figure things out at the water cooler, but it wasn't a water cooler kind of job at all. Then they said awesome things about him in his review, which was also a two-second long, "Here, sign this" process and then told him later that they had given him feedback about things he needed to fix. They didn't. At some point, the group lost their contract. Many people were rehired, but I guess things really went into the ground.

It was really a blessing that he ended up in his new job before everyone else ended up jumping ship later! Another non-rehire works there and is likewise happy to have dodged that bullet.

I swear that dysfunctional people like the people around them to be compatibly dysfunctional because they don't want to have to change what they do.

Yep!

I think that you might not know how communication will be at any job until you start working there. I hate that, but I think it's true. 

Oh, gosh. I'd hate to go back to that. It's extremely difficult when a boss makes information a power trip.

[Katy]

25 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

Yes. It's an appropriate question: to do my job well, I want to know that person communicates with direct reports, with the clearly expressed intent to do my job well. 

I asked the very same question at another job interview, got a completely different but entirely reasonable answer, and there was no offense for asking.  I must have triggered something in this person, so that's why I'm thinking this over. How do I ask this in a non-threatening way?

Thanks!

If someone is sensitive about it, it will be triggering. That’s okay. 

[footballmom]

IMHO, you asked your question professionally and appropriately and used the right words. And the person heard the right words and put together that their vision of a dysfunctional working relationship would not be supported by you 😂 this was a blessing, 

I would continue to ask critical questions to pre-screen yourself out of miserable work situations. The right opportunity that gives you the feedback lop you need to be effective will emerge a clear choice. 

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, Halftime Hope said:

Oh, gosh. I'd hate to go back to that. It's extremely difficult when a boss makes information a power trip.

Ah, I once worked for a Personal Power Person. It was extraordinarily frustrating and I finally did leave that job after one too many he said/she said debates (which are no fun at all when a power imbalance is involved).

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, Halftime Hope said:

Oh, gosh. I'd hate to go back to that. It's extremely difficult when a boss makes information a power trip.

I mean in the job that was rescinded--as in, you probably dodged bullet.

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Grace Hopper said:

Ah, I once worked for a Personal Power Person. It was extraordinarily frustrating and I finally did leave that job after one too many he said/she said debates (which are no fun at all when a power imbalance is involved).

Me too. I was contracted to the office, so he wasn't my direct boss, but still. He was fine with MEN having independence (unless he was doing a project for them), but not women. On the one hand, if you had a crisis, he was very happy to be needed, but he would all but precipitate a crisis sometimes to get there. I found ways to get around him being the person everything went through, and he did not like it even though he liked that I (and a male co-worker) streamlined a lot of things about the position to make it more valuable in some ways. But then, he would also get his people great parking spaces ("inside the gate," so not in timbuktu in the dark if you were working late, etc.). It was very complicated. He liked to pick fights with me, and then tell me I liked having the last word...like, just change what I was saying so that I had to say it again. He also liked to fight with his wife, and his educated adult daughter was highly, highly dependent on him. Even his hobbies required a fair amount of drama and last minute flurrying about.

[Halftime Hope]

40 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Me too. I was contracted to the office, so he wasn't my direct boss, but still. He was fine with MEN having independence (unless he was doing a project for them), but not women. On the one hand, if you had a crisis, he was very happy to be needed, but he would all but precipitate a crisis sometimes to get there. I found ways to get around him being the person everything went through, and he did not like it even though he liked that I (and a male co-worker) streamlined a lot of things about the position to make it more valuable in some ways. But then, he would also get his people great parking spaces ("inside the gate," so not in timbuktu in the dark if you were working late, etc.). It was very complicated. He liked to pick fights with me, and then tell me I liked having the last word...like, just change what I was saying so that I had to say it again. He also liked to fight with his wife, and his educated adult daughter was highly, highly dependent on him. Even his hobbies required a fair amount of drama and last minute flurrying about.

I'm so sorry!

[kbutton]

12 hours ago, Halftime Hope said:

I'm so sorry!

It was a long time ago! I was able to move on after a few months--new department in the same place and then a whole other job.

[Danae]

The only possible issue I see in what you said is that if you used the words “didn’t get good feedback” they might have interpreted that to mean that you were receiving negative feedback on your work rather than that the other person wasn’t communicating well. So you might want to be careful of your phrasing.  
 

 

[sassenach]

21 hours ago, Halftime Hope said:

I must have triggered something in this person, so that's why I'm thinking this over. How do I ask this in a non-threatening way?

I think you did ask it in a non-threatening way. You dodged a bullet, friend!

Edited March 16, 2023 by sassenach