NM...? Thx for the thoughts (ETA: A little happy update)

[Farrar]

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. That was useful for me supporting her.

(ETA: Update at the bottom if you remember this one...)

Edited March 29, 2023 by Farrar

[lauraw4321]

Why would a lawyer allow that deal? A couple of ideas come to mind:

1) he has assets she doesn’t know about. 
2) He’s desperate to get remarried so needs the divorce finalized asap.

[Farrar]

Just now, lauraw4321 said:

Why would a lawyer allow that deal? A couple of ideas come to mind:

1) he has assets she doesn’t know about. 
2) He’s desperate to get remarried so needs the divorce finalized asap.

Outside assets are highly unlikely. But remarriage seems very possible.

[Scarlett]

Once in a while I see an at fault party admit it fully and the offer reflects that. 
 

is this house offer in lieu of alimony?  What about child support?

[Grace Hopper]

Doesn’t seem too late for her to get a lawyer, at least to look over the proposed settlement and point out any red flags. 

[thatfirstsip]

His lawyer's responsibility is to protect his client's interests; the client (the STBX) may have various motivations for having interests that don't seem aligned with what makes sense for him financially, and if the lawyer hasn't been able to talk him out of these things, he can still file the paperwork his client wants.

 

[Scarlett]

And if he has a girlfriend he may just be in the honeymoon stage of the affair. In which case she should sign quickly because it will pass.. 

[Farrar]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Once in a while I see an at fault party admit it fully and the offer reflects that. 
 

is this house offer in lieu of alimony?  What about child support?

There's an additional lump sum payment in lieu of alimony. She is okay with that. No child support needed. Kids are adults. There are some tuition payments, but it's mostly worked out - small stuff in the grand scheme. Kids are fine.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Grace Hopper said:

Doesn’t seem too late for her to get a lawyer, at least to look over the proposed settlement and point out any red flags. 

That's what I'd go with. Have a lawyer take a look, just in case. 

It's possible he's genuinely feeling guilty, though. People aren't always total jerks even when they were at fault. And yes, the idea of remarriage is a very plausible one. 

[Farrar]

3 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Doesn’t seem too late for her to get a lawyer, at least to look over the proposed settlement and point out any red flags. 

She definitely will. She refused to put anyone on retainer, but she picked someone for that purpose (finally). She'll also have close family who are lawyers look at it.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Farrar said:

There's an additional lump sum payment in lieu of alimony. She is okay with that. No child support needed. Kids are adults. There are some tuition payments, but it's mostly worked out - small stuff in the grand scheme. Kids are fine.

Sounds like she should count  her blessings and sign and run.

[Farrar]

NM

Edited January 22, 2023 by Farrar

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Farrar said:

If he was doing a better job reaching out to his kids and apologizing or at least trying to re-establish relationships, then I think I'd accept the "it shows his guilt" thesis more easily. But he's really not. 

Well... giving money is a lot easier than being consistently contrite... plus, am I reading between the lines correctly? There was infidelity? 

[Farrar]

It's the most stereotypical husband leaving his wife situation you can possibly imagine. The timing, the midlife crisis elements, the causes, the things he did. It's just so... banal. 

[Faith-manor]

21 minutes ago, thatfirstsip said:

His lawyer's responsibility is to protect his client's interests; the client (the STBX) may have various motivations for having interests that don't seem aligned with what makes sense for him financially, and if the lawyer hasn't been able to talk him out of these things, he can still file the paperwork his client wants.

 

This. My sister in law's second husband wanted out of his first marriage pretty badly in order to marry mistress sister in law. 

People make decisions against their own self interest all the time.

[Not_a_Number]

13 minutes ago, Farrar said:

It's the most stereotypical husband leaving his wife situation you can possibly imagine. The timing, the midlife crisis elements, the causes, the things he did. It's just so... banal. 

I guess these things become banal because the psychological forces behind them are real and common 😕 . 

How's your friend doing, Farrar? This sounds like a shattering kind of situation, especially if she didn't expect it. 

[Farrar]

She's resilient. It's funny when something happens in such a way that's so basic that if you wrote it in a novel people would complain that it was too stereotypical, you know?

[Scarlett]

It is difficult to have a relationship with your kids when the reason for the estrangement is on going. 

[Harriet Vane]

Setting logistics aside, one thing I would say is that a long, drawn-out legal process serves no one but the lawyers. For that reason, I would say to do what is necessary to get on with life. Especially since your friend is beyond the child-rearing years.

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

She's resilient. It's funny when something happens in such a way that's so basic that if you wrote it in a novel people would complain that it was too stereotypical, you know?

Well then she definitely should sell the house and start fresh in a new place. Because according to Hallmark there’s an ideal situation and a happily ever after just waiting for her. 
 

I jest, but honestly do think if there aren’t kids at home, a fresh start in a new place could be a healthy option. She may be even able to purchase (lease, rent, whatever) something that is more maintenance free so she’ll reduce the un-fun responsibilities of home ownership. If she were my friend I’d encourage her to be forward thinking and look towards the future with its new opportunities. Hope that seems too good to be true settlement is authentic and quickly executed. 

[Farrar]

(removed)

Gosh, I'm in awe of those of you who have negotiated this. This is the closest I've been to someone in this particular sort of divorce situation. Thanks for your thoughts. I just felt like I must have been missing something as it was such a bad deal for him.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Farrar

[Rosie_0801]

3 hours ago, Farrar said:

If he was doing a better job reaching out to his kids and apologizing or at least trying to re-establish relationships, then I think I'd accept the "it shows his guilt" thesis more easily. But he's really not. 

Some blokes have no clue at all how to do this, and the last people they want to learn from are their kids and their kids' mother.

 

I'm getting kind of woozy reading how lucky your friend has been. Quick! Sign papers before he changes his mind and never think of him again!

[SKL]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Once in a while I see an at fault party admit it fully and the offer reflects that. 
 

is this house offer in lieu of alimony?  What about child support?

These were my first thoughts too.

Though you can't get out of child support, alimony is another story.

I know the OP said there probably aren't hidden assets, that could still be a possibility.  He needs to sign a paper swearing that there aren't other assets that could legally be brought into the settlement.

A good lawyer needs to go over the settlement with a fine toothed comb IMO.

I have a friend who trusted her husband's lawyer.  She missed the fine print where it said (a) she got the house ... but only if she paid ex like $1M cash [a lot in her geographic area] within X years, and (b) she kept the debt even if he ended up with the house.  Or something like that.  The way it was hidden cutely by his fancy lawyer ... and also totally ignored the fact that her business income bought the house in the first place.  I told her about unconscionable contracts and she hired a lawyer then.  Hopefully she ends up with a fair deal in the end, but yeah, don't trust your ex's lawyer!

[Dmmetler]

One of my friends got a similar settlement, where in lieu of alimony, she gets the house, he makes mortgage payments on it for 5 more years until the youngest kid is out of high school, and then she can either keeo making payments, or sell it and keep the proceeds. They also had a second house which had been rented out, which he gets free and clear.  (She's getting the more expensive property of the two). 

 

The primary reason he agreed is that it lets the kids stay in the same neighborhood, school, etc, and he's trying to be a good guy to them-and they really don't want anything to do with him. 

 

There's a major income discrepancy, where he makes well over 5x what he does, so it may well be that the mortgage plus child support is less than he might have had to pay otherwise. It also didn't hurt any that there were people willing to back her up (folks like his co-workers) that he had wanted her at home full time, and saw that as a positive in his career, but it meant that when the marriage failed, she was very limited in her options (she works in a child care center, where her parenting skills are valued, but it simply isn't a high paying field).

[madteaparty]

It has not been my experience that the “ guilty” party (this has no legal significance in most states i’m familiar with, btw) acts charitably owing to guilt. If anything, there is an odd sense of entitlement and “I’m owed this” that leads them to act in a pretty vengeful manner. Some sort of cognitive dissonance how it has to be okay for them to do this etc. anyway without paging dr Freud here I agree this is fishy and I’d have it looked over and then March it to in front of judge to have dusted. Because I’m my experience these guys are very eager to start their new best life but also need the funds to do so…

it could be he’s getting bad advice. There’s a ton of shitty lawyers to be honest. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by madteaparty
Shitty lawyer who also can’t spell

[Not_a_Number]

As a slightly underhanded thing… do they have a mutual friend that could talk to the husband but report to your friend? That may be a good gauge of mental state.

[Grace Hopper]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

Apparently, she's going to counter to buy the house as the backup plan to selling. She'd offer what she thinks he'd walk away with now if they sold it, so that's a lot less than the amount he's offering her. She'd rather do that than sell the house apparently. That would involve a lot of entanglement as they got it ready and potentially considered offers. She'd really rather not. She especially wants him not just stopping by, which really could happen if they were selling the place together. The house literally next door was on the market for months. It's not quite as good for her financially, I think, but it's not a bad idea. He might go for it.

Gosh, I'm in awe of those of you who have negotiated this. This is the closest I've been to someone in this particular sort of divorce situation. Thanks for your thoughts. I just felt like I must have been missing something as it was such a bad deal for him.

Ah, that makes sense that she’d want to avoid having to be in communication with him throughout the house prep, marketing and sales process. 
 

Not sure if this was mentioned - and it could cloud the issue if she’s already amenable to what’s currently on the table - but if she was a stay at home parent while raising their children, she may be entitled to a portion of 401K and/or future earnings. Perhaps this is what he is trying to avoid by offering the house. Something to ask the lawyer about (a) if it hasn’t already been discussed and (b) if she’s been a homemaker and may have concerns about supporting herself going forward. 

[Farrar]

11 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

As a slightly underhanded thing… do they have a mutual friend that could talk to the husband but report to your friend? That may be a good gauge of mental state.

Not really. It seems like she got all the friends and his extended family isn't sharing info about him. 

[Farrar]

6 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Ah, that makes sense that she’d want to avoid having to be in communication with him throughout the house prep, marketing and sales process. 
 

Not sure if this was mentioned - and it could cloud the issue if she’s already amenable to what’s currently on the table - but if she was a stay at home parent while raising their children, she may be entitled to a portion of 401K and/or future earnings. Perhaps this is what he is trying to avoid by offering the house. Something to ask the lawyer about (a) if it hasn’t already been discussed and (b) if she’s been a homemaker and may have concerns about supporting herself going forward. 

She essentially was, though she also worked part time. She also helped him manage his business. The settlement does in fact say that she doesn't get any of that, but trust me when I say that this isn't that big a deal in this case.

[Carrie12345]

2 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Some blokes have no clue at all how to do this, and the last people they want to learn from are their kids and their kids' mother.

Men are dumb.

My sisters and I did work past the affair, but that moron couldn’t navigate his own discomfort with his choices in order to behave like a parent.

[madteaparty]

7 hours ago, Farrar said:

She essentially was, though she also worked part time. She also helped him manage his business. The settlement does in fact say that she doesn't get any of that, but trust me when I say that this isn't that big a deal in this case.

Future earnings are very difficult to get in real life IME. Valuation of current partnerships and business etc much more common. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by madteaparty

[Scarlett]

As fr as her not getting any of his 401k has she seen the statement?

my SIL’s soon to be ex is telling her there is no money in the 401k. But refuses to provide a copy of it. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Scarlett

[Farrar]

Hey, all, this thread was from a bit ago, but I thought it was worth updating for those who might remember it. Also, it's just a good news story (in as much as a divorce story can be). Basically, if you recall, my friend was hesitating about getting a lawyer, the jerk of a stbx had promised her all kinds of things via text, including a lot of honestly pretty stupid things that he probably wasn't going to be forced to provide. But then he lawyered up and she was refusing to. I thought it was all about to go sideways big time.

Welp. Everything is being signed today. She did eventually get a lawyer (actually, two - and I think this is a lesson in shopping around and not feeling like you're stuck - she paid one lawyer to start, but then literally got her money back when she didn't like them and found another lawyer who she very much vibed with -- meanwhile, his lawyer kept referring to him by the wrong name, lol) and she got everything she asked for. She will not keep the house, but she will take every penny he promised her from it, meaning she'll get a lot more out of it than him. Plus a bunch of other concessions, some of which were not on the original promises. Basically she won this divorce as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers! I can't say I suggest hemming and hawing instead of lawyering up when left by someone who turned toxic fast, but, hey, sometimes it apparently does all work out as well as it can. I'm going out for a drink with her to celebrate.