Prince Harry - Spare

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

Not really a bold statement. I think the details about his family are salacious enough to get the money flowing. I doubt many people bought the book to hear about his Taliban kill number. 

So, essentially, you're assuming they can pay in perpetuity for their security? Did anyone suggest that people were buying the book for the kill number? That was a tangent/aside.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

No, and neither does Harry. Further, I think it’s a sign of immaturity to do so. 

You don't know this. None of us can.

[Mom_to3]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

It's seriously not an issue, just a talking point. By far, the primary risk is as a result of his connection to the British royal family. There are hundreds of military personnel in the U.S. who may/may not ID a bigger number with lower risk.

Releasing the kill number so publicly by a member of the RF is precisely the risk. He is not just one of many military who've killed people in service.

 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Mom_to3 said:

Releasing the kill number so publicly by a member of the RF is precisely the risk. He is not just one of many military who've killed people in service.

 

His risk profile can't possibly be exacerbated by this #. His risk profile is primarily based on his parentage/connection to power, not his own deeds.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

So, essentially, you're assuming they can pay in perpetuity for their security?

Not getting where you’re getting that… I think the details about his military service are not the major selling point of the book. I’m not drawing a link to his security expenses. 

[Alte Veste Academy]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

His risk profile can't possibly be exacerbated by this #. His risk profile is primarily based on his parentage/connection to power, not his own deeds.

LOL You’re making my point. His book profits are primarily based on his parentage/connection to power, not his own (military service) deeds. 

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

Not really a bold statement. I think the details about his family are salacious enough to get the money flowing. I doubt many people bought the book to hear about his Taliban kill number. 

Doesn't answer my question. What evidence do you have to support that their security needs can be met without book sales/profits? What's your evidence that the kill number is driving book sales/criticism?

[Alte Veste Academy]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

Doesn't answer my question. What evidence do you have to support that their security needs can be met without book sales/profits? What's your evidence that the kill number is driving book sales/criticism?

The same evidence you have to support that Harry’s risk profile can’t possibly be exacerbated by his kill #? So zero?

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Alte Veste Academy said:

LOL You’re making my point. His book profits are primarily based on his parentage/connection to power, not his own (military service) deeds. 

His risk profile is based on his family/connection to power. Those expenses don't decrease because he steps back. The only stuff he has to sell to protect his family/meet their security needs is information.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

The same evidence you have to support that Harry’s risk profile can’t possibly be exacerbated by his kill #? So zero?

Riggghhhtt...sure. Whatever you say. And your connection to high-profile military/public personnel is?? There have been enough high-profile reports (books and otherwise) to demonstrate that his 'kill number' is a minor issue. No one's been killed or targeted over a 'kill number'.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Alte Veste Academy]

I find this bizarrely aggressive, so I’m out. 🙂

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Alte Veste Academy said:

I find this bizarrely aggressive, so I’m out. 🙂

Do engage with honesty and positive intentions next time? So confused by this sidetrack.

[Alte Veste Academy]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Do engage with honesty and positive intentions next time? So confused by this sidetrack.

You’re accusing me of being dishonest? And not having positive intentions? I’m offended, but mostly confused, by your accusations here. 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Alte Veste Academy said:

You’re accusing me of being dishonest? And not having positive intentions? I’m offended, but mostly confused, by your accusations here. 

Seriously. STAHP. We all were engaging in perfectly pleasant dialogue.

[katilac]

5 hours ago, Mom_to3 said:

 The other thing I don't understand - if they had simply wanted out, if they had left, moved to California or elsewhere even less glamorous, and stayed out of the public limelight, by now there would be much less need for expensive security - as people just wouldn't care. And they'd just be able to live close to normal upper class lives living off of their savings or taking some regular jobs. Am I wrong in that?

I think you are vastly underestimating the time it would take for people to just not care. He is not just the royal spare, but Princess Diana's son. The 25th anniversary of her death received large amounts of global attention. 

2 hours ago, stephanier.1765 said:

I've wondered why they don't downsize. Do they really need to live in a mansion that size in California. But if they want that size home, wouldn't another state be more affordable? 

They were/are already making massive changes in their lives. Meghan was born and raised in California, they both have friends there, and it's a state accustomed to celebrities I can understand needing to live where you want to live in their circumstances.  

And his book earnings will pay for that house several times over. 

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

I mean, I can't see any reason that a kid who grew up in a palace couldn't live in a two bedroom rental? It might feel very uncomfortable, and it might really threaten his self esteem, but there's not a literal reason he couldn't live as others do. Presumably he lived in barracks?

I think the literal reason is that they would literally have a problem with security. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by katilac

[Alte Veste Academy]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Seriously. STAHP. We all were engaging in perfectly pleasant dialogue.

As you said, “Doesn’t answer the question.” Are you seriously accusing me of being dishonest? Maybe STAHP that? 

[Mom_to3]

 I think none of us here truly know the costs of security for people like this - but I have seen no evidence that H&M are making good faith attempts at minimizing these costs. 

I also read about H complaints about IKEA furniture in crappy housing provided by the RF (and envy of W&K's home in comparison). Is that true? I think the book, Oprah interviews and Netflix shows etc may be about much more than providing security detail for their family, but saying that you want to be (super)rich just doesn't sound as good.

 

 

 

[Faith-manor]

🤐

Edited January 15, 2023 by Faith-manor

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

Off topic crazy thought. While the U.S.A. owes him exactly nothing, Meghan and the kids are US citizens, and the guy does know people, the kind of people who might be advantageous to know in a diplomatic position. The government could give him US citizenship, and then make him the Ambassador of Micronesia, Liliput, Atlantis....somewhere not too prominent. 😉. Then the family would be out of the public eye, he would have a home, diplomatic security, salary, and benefits package, and we have done a nice thing for our ally country. He would not be the least qualified person ever appointed to a diplomatic post, and if anything, has some relevant experience. We have sent some real dunderheads to our embassies as political rewards in the past, so it is hard to imagine it being a train wreck.

And why didn't the UK think of this? Take your unwanted spare with military experience and some training in diplomatic protocols, post him and family to Pickalilyronesia, and voila, security, purpose, service, and paparazzi problem solved. I mean, maybe The Sun and The Beast would follow along, but once they realize nothing interesting is going to happen, and life in Pickalily is boring, chances are they would go back to stalking royals back home. 

 

It's a good idea, in a way (though its a bit rude to to Pickalilyronesia - disrespectful to send your dunderheads to 'unimportant' places - Polynesian nations are not unimportant) but isn't the problem they didn't want that? Because it's just another way of being controlled by institutional demands?

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

1 minute ago, Faith-manor said:

Off topic crazy thought. While the U.S.A. owes him exactly nothing, Meghan and the kids are US citizens, and the guy does know people, the kind of people who might be advantageous to know in a diplomatic position. The government could give him US citizenship, and then make him the Ambassador of Micronesia, Liliput, Atlantis....somewhere not too prominent. 😉. Then the family would be out of the public eye, he would have a home, diplomatic security, salary, and benefits package, and we have done a nice thing for our ally country. He would not be the least qualified person ever appointed to a diplomatic post, and if anything, has some relevant experience. We have sent some real dunderheads to our embassies as political rewards in the past, so it is hard to imagine it being a train wreck.

And why didn't the UK think of this? Take your unwanted spare with military experience and some training in diplomatic protocols, post him and family to Pickalilyronesia, and voila, security, purpose, service, and paparazzi problem solved. I mean, maybe The Sun and The Beast would follow along, but once they realize nothing interesting is going to happen, and life in Pickalily is boring, chances are they would go back to stalking royals back home. 

 

According to his book, when the troubles first started, he and Meghan wanted to go live in South Africa.  Courtiers/Granny suggested they go be figureheads in Bermuda, where it was felt the press would be less intrusive, but for whatever reason they turned it down.

 

[Katy]

3 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

 I think none of us here truly know the costs of security for people like this - but I have seen no evidence that H&M are making good faith attempts at minimizing these costs. 

I also read about H complaints about IKEA furniture in crappy housing provided by the RF (and envy of W&K's home in comparison). Is that true? I think the book, Oprah interviews and Netflix shows etc may be about much more than providing security detail for their family, but saying that you want to be (super)rich just doesn't sound as good.

I know enough about it to think $6 million is reasonable.  Every single security guard is going to get paid in excess of $100k.  Most of them are former military special forces and they are putting their lives on the line.  You need many at one time, with 3 shifts 7 days per week. Plus you need supervisors and management and cameras and computer servers and possibly armored vehicles. And benefits or paying a 3rd party company to manage & give them benefits. And training and ongoing training and weapons.

[Sneezyone]

11 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

 I think none of us here truly know the costs of security for people like this - but I have seen no evidence that H&M are making good faith attempts at minimizing these costs. 

I also read about H complaints about IKEA furniture in crappy housing provided by the RF (and envy of W&K's home in comparison). Is that true? I think the book, Oprah interviews and Netflix shows etc may be about much more than providing security detail for their family, but saying that you want to be (super)rich just doesn't sound as good.

 

 

 

Goodness, as a MilFam, I have LOTS of complaints about military housing, so much so that we lived in military housing for 8 months in 15 years, four years in 25 years. LOL. Everybody complains. DH used to say, a complaining sailor is a happy sailor. The ones you need to worry about are the ones who stop talking.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Melissa Louise]

I'm so confused about why they need 24/7 security.

Most of the other royals don't have 24/7.

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

It's a good idea, in a way (though its a bit rude to to Pickalilyronesia - disrespectful to send your dunderheads to 'unimportant' places - Polynesian nations are not unimportant) but isn't the problem they didn't want that? Because it's just another way of being controlled by institutional demands?

I didn't mean it that way. I don't think he is a dunderhead to begin with, and the US, sorry to everyone out there, has sent some real morons into diplomatic assignments which should not happen. I was just being lighthearted and trying to say that a country without the media presence owe have, somewhere rather unlikely to raise scrutiny, might be on option for them to live safely. Micronesia does NOT deserve an idiot from the US. However, I do not view Prince Henry that way. I actually think he could be good at it. I will delete my other post.

[Sneezyone]

9 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Off topic crazy thought. While the U.S.A. owes him exactly nothing, Meghan and the kids are US citizens, and the guy does know people, the kind of people who might be advantageous to know in a diplomatic position. The government could give him US citizenship, and then make him the Ambassador of Micronesia, Liliput, Atlantis....somewhere not too prominent. 😉. Then the family would be out of the public eye, he would have a home, diplomatic security, salary, and benefits package, and we have done a nice thing for our ally country. He would not be the least qualified person ever appointed to a diplomatic post, and if anything, has some relevant experience. We have sent some real dunderheads to our embassies as political rewards in the past, so it is hard to imagine it being a train wreck.

And why didn't the UK think of this? Take your unwanted spare with military experience and some training in diplomatic protocols, post him and family to Pickalilyronesia, and voila, security, purpose, service, and paparazzi problem solved. I mean, maybe The Sun and The Beast would follow along, but once they realize nothing interesting is going to happen, and life in Pickalily is boring, chances are they would go back to stalking royals back home. 

 

Interesting. I suspect he talks to much. The rest of us talk/complain in relative obscurity.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

I didn't mean it that way. I don't think he is a dunderhead to begin with, and the US, sorry to everyone out there, has sent some real morons into diplomatic assignments which should not happen. I was just being lighthearted and trying to say that a country without the media presence owe have, somewhere rather unlikely to raise scrutiny, might be on option for them to live safely. Micronesia does NOT deserve an idiot from the US. However, I do not view Prince Henry that way. I actually think he could be good at it. I will delete my other post.

No, no, no need to delete!

I think they were offered something like that, but didn't want it, that's all.

[Sneezyone]

9 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

According to his book, when the troubles first started, he and Meghan wanted to go live in South Africa.  Courtiers/Granny suggested they go be figureheads in Bermuda, where it was felt the press would be less intrusive, but for whatever reason they turned it down.

 

Schools, activities, amenities, culture? Lots of reasons why that was a horrible idea for young adults.

[Melissa Louise]

Weird Bermuda fact that I know though ppl I know who moved there - there's a Montessori school there - might have been a nice environment for the young 'uns.

 

 

[SKL]

Where do people get the idea that our ambassadors have sufficient security?

[Roadrunner]

18 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I'm so confused about why they need 24/7 security.

Most of the other royals don't have 24/7.

Don’t they all live in royal compounds (castles) mostly so their homes are 24/7 security? In addition to whatever security they get when they are out?

I saw a piece saying threats against them were very real. I don’t really know obviously how security works,  it if I had enough people wanting to kill me, I would want somebody capable around 24/7.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/30/uk/meghan-sussex-threats-intl-scli/index.html

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I went and looked it up, and it was actually Camilla who suggested that. Which is probably why it went nowhere. If anyone other than the press and paparazzi comes off as the enemy in the book, it’s definitely Camilla.

I knew someone who lived in Bermuda for a few years and loved it.  But she wasn’t the type who needed a lot of amenities. I think she eventually wound up living in a primitive treehouse in Costa Rica with no running water, so whatever Bermuda offered was probably fine for her. 

[Melissa Louise]

17 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Don’t they all live in royal compounds (castles) mostly so their homes are 24/7 security? In addition to whatever security they get when they are out?

I saw a piece saying threats against them were very real. I don’t really know obviously how security works,  it if I had enough people wanting to kill me, I would want somebody capable around 24/7.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/30/uk/meghan-sussex-threats-intl-scli/index.html

Honestly, I don't know. Only the monarch and heir get 24/7 though, I think.

What a mess.

Royal protection is tax payer funded, I think.

I understand why  tax payers in the UK may not wish to pay for non-working royals.

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Honestly, I don't know. Only the monarch and heir get 24/7 though, I think.

What a mess.

Royal protection is tax payer funded, I think.

I understand why  tax payers in the UK may not wish to pay for non-working royals.

Oh yes, not the taxpayer, but imagine your kid and your grandkid facing these sorts of threats and needing protection and you being among the richest people on earth not tapping into your private pocket and paying for it. At least until they settled and began earning some funds. 
As a parent, I have no words. 

[Faith-manor]

6 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Oh yes, not the taxpayer, but imagine your kid and your grandkid facing these sorts of threats and needing protection and you being among the richest people on earth not tapping into your private pocket and paying for it. At least until they settled and began earning some funds. 
As a parent, I have no words. 

This is where I fall. I just can't imagine it. It is another reason I truly believe Charles does not care about Archie and Lilibet. Sure. Have a beef with your son. But don't make two innocent grandkids your sacrificial pawns. Charles and Camilla both give me the vibe that if something horrible happened, they would not be able to muster a tear in false grief much less anything real. I guess that is what happens when you are willing to spend years not giving a rip about how your actions affect your minor children, and actively ripping apart their mother. Cold. 

 

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, Faith-manor said:

This is where I fall. I just can't imagine it. It is another reason I truly believe Charles does not care about Archie and Lilibet. Sure. Have a beef with your son. But don't make two innocent grandkids your sacrificial pawns. Charles and Camilla both give me the vibe that if something horrible happened, they would not be able to muster a tear in false grief much less anything real. I guess that is what happens when you are willing to spend years not giving a rip about how your actions affect your minor children, and actively ripping apart their mother. Cold. 

 

I don't agree with this, and from what I've heard about the book, this isn't quite how Harry sees it either. 

 

[SKL]

41 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Oh yes, not the taxpayer, but imagine your kid and your grandkid facing these sorts of threats and needing protection and you being among the richest people on earth not tapping into your private pocket and paying for it. At least until they settled and began earning some funds. 
As a parent, I have no words. 

The RF did fund their security for a while, and also, they have a ton of inheritance money at their disposal.  They also have various opportunities for ongoing earnings.

They are the ones who opted out, remember.  There were various options, but they said a great big loud "screw you."

At some point, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

[Faith-manor]

18 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I don't agree with this, and from what I've heard about the book, this isn't quite how Harry sees it either. 

 

I hope not. I don't like thinking the worst. But I truly can't understand the mentality.  

[Melissa Louise]

18 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I hope not. I don't like thinking the worst. But I truly can't understand the mentality.  

I don't really understand it all either, except that it was poorly planned out and very quickly executed, but so far as I've read, Charles, while clearly impacted by his own emotionally isolated upbringing and experience with being badly bullied, did try to be a different type of parent.  I base that on what I've read in reviews of Harry's book. Leaving little notes of affection for him on his pillow etc. Clearly, he stuffed up as a parent re Harry's complicated grief. But I don't think even Harry sees him as a movie style villain.

It sort of goes back to what I was saying about splitting - all good and all bad. C & C are products of their times, upbringing etc just as much as H is. They probably caused harm, AND they are just people, with their warmth and coldness, strengths and weaknesses, just like the rest of us.

I'm also not a huge fan of the Diana mania that underlies some of this - Harry being the 'new' Diana, victimized by the press etc.

Lots of things wrong about how she was treated, including her Spenser relatives basically pushing her into a marriage she was concerned about, but she was also a very complicated person with a traumatic childhood, who possibly wasn't able to parent as harmlessly as she might have liked. A lot of the Diana myth comes, ironically, from propaganda in the media. She did good things, don't get me wrong, but she was just a human, and had her flaws, including (apparently), parentifying her eldest child.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Melissa Louise

[Roadrunner]

17 minutes ago, SKL said:

The RF did fund their security for a while, and also, they have a ton of inheritance money at their disposal.  They also have various opportunities for ongoing earnings.

They are the ones who opted out, remember.  There were various options, but they said a great big loud "screw you."

At some point, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

Again, this is not quite true. They didn’t want to leave. They wanted a more limited role but from the looks of it were really told no. It seems to me what they were asking wasn’t unprecedented since some of the cousins have arrangements similar to what they wanted. 
Press coverage was  relentlessly vicious. Remember she couldn’t eat an avocado without being declared a murderer of sorts. With deteriorating mental health they went on vacation while hoping to work out something. I don’t see a “screw you.” I see a “screw you” when your family won’t issue corrections to the lies being published about you. That’s “screw you.” 

having your parents help you when you are facing death threats isn’t “having your cake and eating it too.” I am really shocked at these attitudes. Especially when the other kid is being given hundreds of millions? Or more? I am trying to imagine treating my two sons like that. It’s shocking to me. Really is shocking. 

[Melissa Louise]

I think the initial problem was that they wanted to trade on their royal name.

The cousins work privately, attend some events, and don't have taxpayer security.

I expect that would have been available to them - the sticking point was otherwise.

[Mom_to3]

To think that Meghan would be happy with a diplomatic post in (fill in some tiny) country. What was the limited role they were looking for? Celebrity status, the ability to make big bucks, and attend select royal events of their choosing (to cement their celebrity status)?

And Charles probably loves Archie and Lilibet in some abstract sense, but he doesn't know them *at all*. My FIL loves his great grandkids, but only talks about them when he sees them once or twice a year.

We only know one side of the story. Could it be that Charles had to consider the impact of funding H&M abroad out of his own pocket on the goodwill of the UK people towards the monarchy (with the need to explain and justify the sources of funding)?

All that said, I am not a fan of any of them, and there appear to be lots of problems in that entire family and with the monarchy itself. But H&M give me a very bad vibe. I hope they will find contentment and raise their kids with a lot of peace and happiness.

[Melissa Louise]

Who knows what the back channel negotiations were or weren't?

It's a shame, imo, that they didn't go down the some path as Beatrice and Eugenie.

God, I despise myself for chatting all day about royalty! I think the emotional response (on both the pro and anti H&M side) is out of all proportion, and yet, here I am, adding to it.

My only excuse is growing up in the monarchy, and imbibing a heck of a lot of info over the 80's and 90's without even wanting to. Di and Charles etc were huge celebrities at the time.

[Roadrunner]

I think all really begins and ends with press. It seems to me they would have stayed and done their duty had the press attacks not been so vicious against them. Meagan seems to have really wanted to make it work. The attacks didn’t even stop when they moved. I think that’s the difference with cousins. Press let them be. 
 

 

[Roadrunner]

I can’t imagine anybody normal begrudging a father spending private money to keep his son safe. 

[Melissa Louise]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I think all really begins and ends with press. It seems to me they would have stayed and done their duty had the press attacks not been so vicious against them. Meagan seems to have really wanted to make it work. The attacks didn’t even stop when they moved. I think that’s the difference with cousins. Press let them be. 
 

 

I have zero problem making Murdoch the villain of the piece!

[SKL]

Pretty ironic though the way they're acting now if the press is supposedly their enemy.

[Faith-manor]

8 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

 

I'm also not a huge fan of the Diana mania that underlies some of this - Harry being the 'new' Diana, victimized by the press etc.

Lots of things wrong about how she was treated, including her Spenser relatives basically pushing her into a marriage she was concerned about, but she was also a very complicated person with a traumatic childhood, who possibly wasn't able to parent as harmlessly as she might have liked. A lot of the Diana myth comes, ironically, from propaganda in the media. She did good things, don't get me wrong, but she was just a human, and had her flaws, including (apparently), parentifying her eldest child.

 

 

 

 

 

100% agree. It is truly weird, and not helpful for this family at all. The woman had some pretty big issues.

It is an epic cluster eff of dysfunction for sure, so it really should not be shocking to anyone that it is finally being played out in a pretty public and bizarre way. Eventually, volcanos erupt, and this crap had been boiling under the surface for so long, it was bound to make its way out with force.

[Roadrunner]

8 hours ago, SKL said:

Pretty ironic though the way they're acting now if the press is supposedly their enemy.

I should have been more specific. British tabloid press is their enemy. You don’t see them giving interviews to them. I don’t think they have anything against the likes of BBC, CNN, or CBS or what we call normal, non tabloid press. 

Also fascinating is there was a targeted social media campaign against her. Makes you wonder who/why.

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/27/meghan-target-of-co-ordinated-twitter-hate-campaign-report-finds

 

“This campaign comes from people who know how to manipulate the algorithms, manipulate Twitter, stay under the wire to avoid detection and suspension. This level of complexity comes from people who know how to do this stuff, who are paid to do this stuff.”

Edited January 15, 2023 by Roadrunner

[SKL]

Did Meagan and Camilla ever have a chance, given that Harry hated Camilla so much?

It's kinda sad - Camilla and Meagan might have enough in common that they could be friends if Harry wasn't in the middle.

But in the big picture ... I think that if things had been done right in the first place, Diana never would have married Charles (he would have married Camilla younger), and there would be no Harry; or if Diana did marry Charles, Camilla would have left Charles alone, Diana could have matured into her roles, and there would have been no fatal crash.  Of course nobody asked my opinion then and nobody wants it now.  😛

[Faith-manor]

38 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I should have been more specific. British tabloid press is their enemy. You don’t see them giving interviews to them. I don’t think they have anything against the likes of BBC, CNN, or CBS or what we call normal, non tabloid press. 

Also fascinating is there was a targeted social media campaign against her. Makes you wonder who/why.

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/27/meghan-target-of-co-ordinated-twitter-hate-campaign-report-finds

 

“This campaign comes from people who know how to manipulate the algorithms, manipulate Twitter, stay under the wire to avoid detection and suspension. This level of complexity comes from people who know how to do this stuff, who are paid to do this stuff.”

Which begs the question, "Who paid for this?"