Prince Harry - Spare

[Sneezyone]

Just now, stephanier.1765 said:

I've wondered why they don't downsize. Do they really need to live in a mansion that size in California. But if they want that size home, wouldn't another state be more affordable? 

I think that has more to do with 'the lifestyle to which you've become accustomed' and the COL in the places they want to live than anything else. LA is not cheap. If I packed up and moved my household to malibu, I'd easily be approaching 3-4M.

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Scripted experiences aren't indicative of a lack of 'shelter'/bubble tho. You can pay to send your kids on missions and overseas volunteerism experiences, none of which will familiarize you with the feelings of recipients. It's all smoke and mirrors/appearances.

I was thinking more of the military experience and Invictus games. That's real, not just a sanitised tour for the rich person.
 

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

This is where my bias kicks in and I can't maintain compassion.

So I'll leave it there!

(I am really sorry for him in his grief - one of my parents lost their mother at 10, and they are similarly 'frozen' at that age - it's hard to be around, and caused me physical and emotional harm all through my childhood, but I do feel for them. I really hope he can process and move on, because that's what's best for his kids. Changing generational patterns is so hard).

 

I understand. It's hard to fathom the scope. I just don't think the feelings are all that different.

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

This! I really hope his therapist didn't say, "Sure, your kids already have targets on their backs, and you have a lot of things to work through, but by all means it is wise to do a tell all that will make the unstable royal obssessers back home extra out of their minds! Go for it." I would hope he was heavily advised against it. I mean, this isn't just about HIM. Lilibet and Archie have to survive this thing, and right now, they only have the security that he and Megan can afford and what is available at that price in L.A. dreaming land where every celebrity has to hire drivers and bodyguards for their kids. If it was just Meghan and him, okay then. Do it, take the consquences. But I keep coming back to those babies, and thinking, "Henry. Do the thing your father never did. Put your kids well being first. You did it once when you left the UK."

There are some really dodgy therapists out there.

Security is why I'm very cross with the publisher as well - they should have removed the kill number. It's terrible that they didn't.

The more I think about it, the sorrier I feel for them both. Which is ironic, given I don't think Harry would give a peasant like me a second thought!

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

I think that has more to do with 'the lifestyle to which you've become accustomed' and the COL in the places they want to live than anything else. LA is not cheap. If I packed up and moved my household to malibu, I'd easily be approaching 3-4M.

There seems to be a logical disconnect where he both wants and doesn't want what he grew up with.  I find this another example of immaturity.  (And maybe it's his wife who is doing the wanting, I wouldn't know.  But you can't have it both ways.)

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

I was thinking more of the military experience and Invictus games. That's real, not just a sanitised tour for the rich person.
 

True but even that was sanitized/scripted. No regular military personnel would get the press coverage/attention he did. The US military would use that high-profile to the fullest. Are Brits different?

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

There are some really dodgy therapists out there.

Security is why I'm very cross with the publisher as well - they should have removed the kill number. It's terrible that they didn't.

The more I think about it, the sorrier I feel for them both. Which is ironic, given I don't think Harry would give a peasant like me a second thought!

What's a kill number?

[Sneezyone]

Just now, SKL said:

What's a kill number?

The number of persons a soldier has killed.

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

True but even that was sanitized/scripted. No regular military personnel would get the press coverage/attention he did. The US military would use that high-profile to the fullest. Are Brits different?

I think that not only was he likely to receive exceptional protection in the military, but he was also probably protected against being reported when he did stupid things in the military.  Just based on things I've read about other political people in the British military.  But I wasn't there so I don't know.

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, SKL said:

What's a kill number?

Giving the number of people you've killed.

H claims to have killed 25 Taliban.

In terms of security, it seems unwise to draw attention to this in such a concrete way.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, SKL said:

I think that not only was he likely to receive exceptional protection in the military, but he was also probably protected against being reported when he did stupid things in the military.  Just based on things I've read about other political people in the British military.  But I wasn't there so I don't know.

I think you're wrong on this. Sorry. Extra eyeballs, sure. Extra cushy duty, no.

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, stephanier.1765 said:

I've wondered why they don't downsize. Do they really need to live in a mansion that size in California. But if they want that size home, wouldn't another state be more affordable? 

Potentially. But in most places, the only neighborhoods with gated communities, and the opportunity to hire significant security is in uber wealthy areas. I mean, they can come to my neck of the woods of Michigan. They can build a palace way cheaper than L.A. However the most security they will be able to find are a couple of guys who got rejected from police academy for super obvious reasons, who got their P.I. licenses only to discover no one out here needs a P.I. Police force is beyond limited. If the paparazzi or some obsessed stalker followed them here, there would be little protection available. I guess dh could run over to the mansion with the air gun he uses to dispatch ground hogs.

Mostly, I think they would have to settle in areas with the kind of people who need security. Palm Beach, New York City, Georgetown or wherever a lot of wealthy politicians congregate, etc. and I don't think it would be considerably cheaper.

 

[SKL]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

Giving the number of people you've killed.

H claims to have killed 25 Taliban.

In terms of security, it seems unwise to draw attention to this in such a concrete way.

I see what you mean.

He really should have thought of that himself also.

So now if he gets death threats because of that, I suppose the argument will be made that he deserves more millions of annual dollars for protection.

Again, was anyone thinking of his children at all ....

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

I see what you mean.

He really should have thought of that himself also.

So now if he gets death threats because of that, I suppose the argument will be made that he deserves more millions of annual dollars for protection.

Again, was anyone thinking of his children at all ....

His intention is to make as much money to provide for his family as possible. That is my DH's ethos, no question. It's the military norm. You work/provide until you die. DH would happily accept death threats if it saved our kids. I have zero doubts that he's thinking of his kids. His calculus is just different from yours.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

Potentially. But in most places, the only neighborhoods with gated communities, and the opportunity to hire significant security is in uber wealthy areas. I mean, they can come to my neck of the woods of Michigan. They can build a palace way cheaper than L.A. However the most security they will be able to find are a couple of guys who got rejected from police academy for super obvious reasons, who got their P.I. licenses only to discover no one out here needs a P.I. Police force is beyond limited. If the paparazzi or some obsessed stalker followed them here, there would be little protection available. I guess dh could run over to the mansion with the air gun he uses to dispatch ground hogs.

Mostly, I think they would have to settle in areas with the kind of people who need security. Palm Beach, New York City, Georgetown or wherever a lot of wealthy politicians congregate, etc. and I don't think it would be considerably cheaper.

 

This is why royals in need of protection tend to live on the royal estates with existing protection.

 

Just now, SKL said:

I see what you mean.

He really should have thought of that himself also.

So now if he gets death threats because of that, I suppose the argument will be made that he deserves more millions of annual dollars for protection.

Again, was anyone thinking of his children at all ....

I think he believes he is thinking of his children.

The publishers were thinking of the bottom line.

[Faith-manor]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

 

 

I think he believes he is thinking of his children.

The publishers were thinking of the bottom line.

This right here. We can all be deluded into thinking we are doing what is best. Hindsight often proves us wrong.

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

His intention is to make as much money to provide for his family as possible. That is my DH's ethos, no question. It's the military norm. You work/provide until you die. DH would happily accept death threats if it saved our kids. I have zero doubts that he's thinking of his kids. His calculus is just different from yours.

OK but if the Taliban comes after me, they're coming after my whole family.  My kids are definitely not safer if the Taliban is after me ... unless we are living far apart.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, SKL said:

OK but if the Taliban comes after me, they're coming after my whole family.  My kids are definitely not safer if the Taliban is after me ... unless we are living far apart.

LOL. The Taliban isn't coming after you anymore than they came after DH when we lived in Bahrain. This is so irrelevant...I can't.

[SKL]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

LOL. The Taliban isn't coming after you anymore than they came after DH when we lived in Bahrain. This is so irrelevant...I can't.

It's relevant because (per prior poster) the book states that he killed dozens of Taliban.

[Melissa Louise]

I'm just listening to the radio (sick in bed) and the item is about the extreme rise in demand at food banks. So that really puts a lot of this in perspective. Life is hard, often, for many.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Melissa Louise
typo

[Sneezyone]

33 minutes ago, SKL said:

It's relevant because (per prior poster) the book states that he killed dozens of Taliban.

So did DH. Missles on foreheads. That's the crass version. My kids and I aren't a target. For Harry, not an ideal/welcome reference, the risk to families who reveal death counts is minimal. The primary risks aren't from the Taliban. The risks are from those who value symbolic wins (domestic and foreign). H&M are symbolic targets and will always be so. His 'kill number' is a minor blip.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Sneezyone

[SKL]

14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

So did DH. Missles on foreheads. That's the crass version. My kids and I aren't a target. For him, not ideal to reference, but not because families like yours are a threat. The primary threats aren't Taliban in nature. They're symbolic. He's a symbol and will always be so.

Well my point was intended to be taken more broadly.  Putting things out there in a book is not the way to protect your kids IMO.  It seems illogical that he needs to write a book make money to pay for the heightened security his kids are gonna need because he is writing a book.

Well anyhoo, I'm not a fan of "why I hate my family" books, regardless of who writes them.  I don't see how they can ever be helpful to anyone connected to the writer (except maybe the publisher).

[Roadrunner]

Information about his kill number isn’t new and has been out for years. 
 

So what do people think he did in Afghanistan? Baked pies? 

[Sneezyone]

14 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well my point was intended to be taken more broadly.  Putting things out there in a book is not the way to protect your kids IMO.  It seems illogical that he needs to write a book make money to pay for the heightened security his kids are gonna need because he is writing a book.

Well anyhoo, I'm not a fan of "why I hate my family" books, regardless of who writes them.  I don't see how they can ever be helpful to anyone connected to the writer (except maybe the publisher).

Illogical and yet true. You could attach a 'kill number' to any number of generals. He was a soldier. He killed people. It's part/parcel of the job and (I haven't read it) a minor reference in his book. Very few people would pay to read my 'why I dislike my family' book but it's a profit-making opportunity for him. I may disagree with his family analysis/behavior but, at the end of the day, he has kids to support in a HCOL and needs security on a level neither you nor I can fathom. I have no intention of funding his endeavors but he needs money to provide for them and is working all his angles.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Roadrunner said:

Information about his kill number isn’t new and has been out for years. 
 

So what do people think he did in Afghanistan? Baked pies? 

Some military people in the UK spoke out against use of the number, both as a 'not done' thing and a 'stupid to do so' thing.

I guess it was always known that he flew helicopters over there, but I don't think anyone much though 'oh, how many people did Harry kill?'

Anyway, good to know it's a blip in terms of security.

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well my point was intended to be taken more broadly.  Putting things out there in a book is not the way to protect your kids IMO.  It seems illogical that he needs to write a book make money to pay for the heightened security his kids are gonna need because he is writing a book.

Well anyhoo, I'm not a fan of "why I hate my family" books, regardless of who writes them.  I don't see how they can ever be helpful to anyone connected to the writer (except maybe the publisher).

It isn't a hate his family book.  It's a book about love and grief and pointing out one particular dysfunction that endangers his family and asks for change.  And in the process ears enough money to protect his family for years.

I have trouble believing anyone knows people who've been active duty who don't speak about it exactly like Harry does.  Nothing about it was shocking to military families except that he obviously actually served instead of being kept protected.

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Some military people in the UK spoke out against use of the number, both as a 'not done' thing and a 'stupid to do so' thing.

I guess it was always known that he flew helicopters over there, but I don't think anyone much though 'oh, how many people did Harry kill?'

Anyway, good to know it's a blip in terms of security.

Sure, but it’s not a new information. It’s been released 7 years ago or something like that. I am curious where was the outrage then? 

[Melissa Louise]

I've read a lot of reviews of the book from different people over the last few days, because I'm sick and bed-bound and bored. It seems to me that the book functions as a bit of a Rorschach test, because there are wildly differing views of the book (and no, I don't read the Daily Mail :))

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

I have trouble believing anyone knows people who've been active duty who don't speak about it exactly like Harry does.  Nothing about it was shocking to military families except that he obviously actually served instead of being kept protected.

I know lots of veterans who say very little about their military service, and never ever about how many people they killed.  The only time I've heard someone mention how many people he killed, it was a guy with serious personality problems / possible mental illness.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, SKL said:

I know lots of veterans who say very little about their military service, and never ever about how many people they killed.  The only time I've heard someone mention how many people he killed, it was a guy with serious personality problems / possible mental illness.

Are they over/under 60? 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Roadrunner said:

Sure, but it’s not a new information. It’s been released 7 years ago or something like that. I am curious where was the outrage then? 

I don't think the number itself was released? But I know nothing about the military in the UK, and really have only been following what I've seen on twitter from people in the UK military. So no clue, really, and I'm glad it's considered a blip and non-consequential from those who know more in the US, where the family now live.

[Katy]

Just now, SKL said:

I know lots of veterans who say very little about their military service, and never ever about how many people they killed.  The only time I've heard someone mention how many people he killed, it was a guy with serious personality problems / possible mental illness.

How many of them served since 9/11?

Vietnam vets had trauma from the way they were treated coming home.  They don't talk about it unless they trust you because they don't want people to scream that they're murderers or baby killers.  They'll talk about it with family though.

WWII vets didn't have the same sort of basic training and many of them couldn't pull a trigger at all.  It was a completely different culture, and they lacked psychological support.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

I don't think the number itself was released? But I know nothing about the military in the UK, and really have only been following what I've seen on twitter from people in the UK military. So no clue, really, and I'm glad it's considered a blip and non-consequential from those who know more in the US, where the family now live.

It's seriously not an issue, just a talking point. By far, the primary risk is as a result of his connection to the British royal family. There are hundreds of military personnel in the U.S. who may/may not ID a bigger number with lower risk.

[Roadrunner]

To me there is no question they were badly treated and no question RF and press relationship is toxic. I mean wasn’t it Camilla having lunch with a person who wanted to parade Meagan naked?

I wonder if I were publicly vilified daily if I would want to set the record straight in public. Maybe yes? Maybe no? All I can tell you is when I feel I am being treated unjustly, I can’t shut up about it.

I also think there is no question one of the reason this book is published is to earn income. What else do they have really to sell? It’s not like Harry is going to start high tech companies or go back serving in the military. I mean does anybody really think a kid who grew up in palaces is going to live in a two bedroom rental? I won’t even get started on security. They made some money now and need to think about what more productive they can do in the figure. I wish them good luck. 
 

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Are they over/under 60? 

Both.

[Melissa Louise]

I mean, I can't see any reason that a kid who grew up in a palace couldn't live in a two bedroom rental? It might feel very uncomfortable, and it might really threaten his self esteem, but there's not a literal reason he couldn't live as others do. Presumably he lived in barracks?

This is where I have a real problem with the discussion (and actually, upon thinking about it, where the reviews all converge). He really was a traumatized child. He has struggled horrendously in some ways.

But he is also a very privileged man. I don't believe in royalty. So I don't believe that some people 'can't' live as others do.  They all could manage, because they are humans, and humans manage in far worse conditions.

 

 

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

Both.

I wish them peace.

[Melissa Louise]

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It's seriously not an issue, just a talking point. By far, the primary risk is as a result of his connection to the British royal family. There are hundreds of military personnel in the U.S. who may/may not ID a bigger number with lower risk.

Thanks. This is good to know.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

I mean, I can't see any reason that a kid who grew up in a palace couldn't live in a two bedroom rental? It might feel very uncomfortable, and it might really threaten his self esteem, but there's not a literal reason he couldn't live as others do. Presumably he lived in barracks?

This is where I have a real problem with the discussion (and actually, upon thinking about it, where the reviews all converge). He really was a traumatized child. He has struggled horrendously in some ways.

But he is also a very privileged man. I don't believe in royalty. So I don't believe that some people 'can't' live as others do.  They all could manage, because they are humans, and humans manage in far worse conditions.

 

 

I do not disagree but I am pseudo-parenting an adult raised in privilege who cannot contemplate downsizing without a complete breakdown, emotional and otherwise. The trauma is real.

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

I do not disagree but I am pseudo-parenting an adult raised in privilege who cannot contemplate downsizing without a complete breakdown, emotional and otherwise. The trauma is real.

That's my can't even.

We have a severe housing crisis here.

People are living in tents at showgrounds, or in their cars, or on the beach. Working people, with families. I would be a very, very bad support to such a person as you describe.

I would happily ask every single royal to go live in a tent with only unemployment to sustain them, and only when they then would look upon a 2 bedroom rental as a luxury, return them to their homes.

The main problem I have with the reception of this book is not the critique of the media, the institution or the grief, but with the idea that there are 'good' royals ie ones who deserve all the good things. None of them deserve it, and that includes Harry. Ugh. Sorry. I'll turn off my computer for a bit so I don't get het up!

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

I mean, I can't see any reason that a kid who grew up in a palace couldn't live in a two bedroom rental? It might feel very uncomfortable, and it might really threaten his self esteem, but there's not a literal reason he couldn't live as others do. Presumably he lived in barracks?

This is where I have a real problem with the discussion (and actually, upon thinking about it, where the reviews all converge). He really was a traumatized child. He has struggled horrendously in some ways.

But he is also a very privileged man. I don't believe in royalty. So I don't believe that some people 'can't' live as others do.  They all could manage, because they are humans, and humans manage in far worse conditions.

 

 

He could, but I can’t imagine that would last successfully long term. They have done studies on things like that. 
how we cope with losing wealth or not having it at all dependents on what is around us and what we had before. It’s not absolute but relative. Humans are weird. 

Having grown up poor (meat was rare on a table), I certainly don’t think they are entitled to anything that we aren’t. I am saying it’s not surprising that he would want to stay as close to his “normal” as possible and attempt to give his kids what he must consider “a proper” upbringing by his standards, including security and certain standard of living. 

[Sneezyone]

21 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

That's my can't even.

We have a severe housing crisis here.

People are living in tents at showgrounds, or in their cars, or on the beach. Working people, with families. I would be a very, very bad support to such a person as you describe.

I would happily ask every single royal to go live in a tent with only unemployment to sustain them, and only when they then would look upon a 2 bedroom rental as a luxury, return them to their homes.

The main problem I have with the reception of this book is not the critique of the media, the institution or the grief, but with the idea that there are 'good' royals ie ones who deserve all the good things. None of them deserve it, and that includes Harry. Ugh. Sorry. I'll turn off my computer for a bit so I don't get het up!

Understood. Going from a 3/4BR home (that you irregularly pay rent on) to a 1BR apartment that you do pay for (subsidized), with a single child, is destabilizing for some. My family dynamic, minus a zero or three, is remarkably similar. I am having a hard time being supportive myself. IJS.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Alte Veste Academy]

52 minutes ago, Katy said:

I have trouble believing anyone knows people who've been active duty who don't speak about it exactly like Harry does.  Nothing about it was shocking to military families except that he obviously actually served instead of being kept protected.

Are you referring to him discussing the number he killed here? Because as a retired army wife and retired army daughter, I knew/know no one who does throw numbers or specifics out in anything other than a small group of trusted friends who have been through the same. 

Like Harry, DH is an Apache pilot, and he served 3 tours in Iraq. He is retired now, but still works with active duty Apache pilots and and recent retirees, and says he knows no one who talks like this.

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

Are you referring to him discussing the number he killed here? Because as a retired army wife and retired army daughter, I knew/know no one who does throw numbers or specifics out in anything other than a small group of trusted friends who have been through the same. 

Like Harry, DH is an Apache pilot, and he served 3 tours in Iraq. He is retired now, but still works with active duty Apache pilots and and recent retirees, and says he knows no one who talks like this.

It was the whole section. He sounded exactly like my ex. I have the audiobook. And not dissimilar to my brother and BIL. The number wasn’t a large focus in the book and the whole thing was taken out of context to infuriate people.

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

Are you referring to him discussing the number he killed here? Because as a retired army wife and retired army daughter, I knew/know no one who does throw numbers or specifics out in anything other than a small group of trusted friends who have been through the same. 

Like Harry, DH is an Apache pilot, and he served 3 tours in Iraq. He is retired now, but still works with active duty Apache pilots and and recent retirees, and says he knows no one who talks like this.

Do they need to (like those involved in the UBA raid) tell all to make a buck? Apparently, yes.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Mom_to3]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

It's seriously not an issue, just a talking point. By far, the primary risk is as a result of his connection to the British royal family. There are hundreds of military personnel in the U.S. who may/may not ID a bigger number with lower risk.

Releasing the kill number so publicly by a member of the RF is precisely the risk. He is not just one of many military who've killed people in service.

 

[Alte Veste Academy]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Do they need to (like those involved in the UBA raid) to make a buck?

No, and neither does Harry. Further, I think it’s a sign of immaturity to do so. 

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

Releasing the kill number so publicly by a member of the RF is precisely the risk. He is not just one of many military who've killed people in service.

 

Fairly sure the folks who were part of the UBL kill squad are as much or more significant than Harry. Yet, they did write books/articles and the U.S. gov't approved them. It's not a major issue in their overall security profile/assessment.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

No, and neither does Harry. Further, I think it’s a sign of immaturity to do so. 

What evidence do you have to support that their security needs can be met/paid for without book sales/profits? That's a very bold statement.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Alte Veste Academy]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

What evidence do you have to support that their security needs can be met without book sales/profits? That's a very bold statement.

Not really a bold statement. I think the details about his family are salacious enough to get the money flowing. I doubt many people bought the book to hear about his Taliban kill number.