Why mask?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Pre-Covid, when I masked (which I did during flu season because of immune issues), people assumed that I had cancer.  Now they assume my politics.  SMH

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, BeachGal said:

We should have had enough masks for at least our HCWs in our strategic national stockpile. Huge failing.

We should have accepted Israel's offer to buy their washable, copper-embedded mask/material but we didn't. They offered this first to the US for a fair price and we didn't accept them.

Both not *just* about science and were totally feasible.

And we should have immediately ramped up domestic production when the sole US producer of N95s warned the administration, before we even had our first case, that they were getting huge orders from other countries and would not have any available for domestic use unless the government placed their own order immediately, and he sent a detailed proposal asking for government help in getting unused manufacturing capacity back online, showing how many millions of masks he could produce by X date. The administration totally ignored the warnings and allowed him to sell his total production of masks to other countries, and then a few months later they were stealing shipments from other countries and confiscating masks that individual states had ordered for themselves, while healthcare workers were reusing surgical masks for days at a time. It was a total cluster@#&*, and totally preventable.

[Corraleno]

My state had a very long-lasting mask mandate, with nearly 100% compliance in my area, and now that masks are no longer required, I probably see an average of around ~20% of people masking in stores, although it varies a lot by location (like 5-10% in Home Depot vs 30-35% in Whole Foods, and 100% for medical/dental appointments). Although maskers are a minority, I've never gotten so much as a dirty look, let alone outright hostility. 

I'm sure we'll catch it at some point, but I'm very grateful that so far my kids and I have dodged the bullet. We are all fully vaxed and boosted, and all still masking (although to varying degrees). I still wear a KN95 any time I'm indoors in public, I still try to do any shopping as soon as stores open, I don't eat in restaurants, and I'm not traveling at all.  DD (20) and DS (24) aren't as cautious as I am, but DD always wears a KN95 at work (busy store in the mall), and DS always wears one when traveling. And he's been traveling a crazy amount lately — in the last 4 months he's probably been on at least 20 separate flights, plus various taxis/buses/trains, plus being in crowds from all over the US at national competitions and all over the world at international competitions. In addition to extensive contact with random strangers, they've both had multiple confirmed exposures: DD has had friends and co-workers test positive soon after she was with them, and DS has had teammates and classmates test positive after close contact. I thought for sure he'd catch it with all that traveling, especially in Europe, but we've all been really lucky so far. 

 

[wathe]

15 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Yes, but the problem is that the general public doesn't care about any of that, and they don't understand it. If people had been told from the start that the virus was spread through the air and not just on surfaces or from big droplets (like if someone sneezed in your face,) they would have understood what that meant, and some of them might have behaved more sensibly and been more positive about masking.

As it was, people were told that the virus was not airborne, which led them to believe they couldn't catch it that way, or at least that it was unlikely.

This wasn't about regulatory implications. I'm talking about the information the average person was given. The government and CDC messaging to the general public was inaccurate and misleading, and people were not being told that they should be taking some basic, specific precautions in their daily lives to try to avoid catching Covid. And it's a big part of the reason we are where we are today. The messaging was terrible and inconsistent, and people stopped trusting it.

It is totally Is about regulatory implications though. Public health messaging and regulatory implications are inextricably linked. The authorities responsible for public health messaging (broadly governments, more narrowly  public health authorities ) are also responsible for regulations regarding public health in workplaces etc. public health messaging stating that the virus is spread through the air, or with a goal of having people behave as though the virus is spread through the air, no matter what kind of euphemisms or skirting language is used, means that workers in essential industries also have to behave as though the virus is spread through the air, and those workers will require  workplace  protection.  And will have the right to refuse unsafe work if they were not provided with that protection. Failing to match public health messaging with  workplace protections and health and safety regulations is impossible. Would result in oodles lawsuits and refusals of unsafe work. 

Public health messaging has to take into account regulatory implications. It’s just impossible for them not to.

[mathnerd]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

If someone confronts you in an aggressive manner, tell them you're wearing a mask because you have been hacking up a lung for days and you think you might be contagious... 😉 

I have said on occasion to people who try to persuade me to get rid of my mask and I don’t want to be confrontational, that I have a sore throat and suspect that it might be a Covid symptom and they leave me alone. It is very easy to fake Covid symptoms if it would make someone more comfortable in a social setting to be the only person wearing a mask.

[BeachGal]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

And we should have immediately ramped up domestic production when the sole US producer of N95s warned the administration, before we even had our first case, that they were getting huge orders from other countries and would not have any available for domestic use unless the government placed their own order immediately, and he sent a detailed proposal asking for government help in getting unused manufacturing capacity back online, showing how many millions of masks he could produce by X date. The administration totally ignored the warnings and allowed him to sell his total production of masks to other countries, and then a few months later they were stealing shipments from other countries and confiscating masks that individual states had ordered for themselves, while healthcare workers were reusing surgical masks for days at a time. It was a total cluster@#&*, and totally preventable.

100% agree.

Satellite images of China’s hospital parking lots filling up in early fall of 2019 should have been enough of a warning as well.

They had just carried out a trial run, Event 201, to better prepare for a future pandemic also. Ridiculous.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by BeachGal

[BeachGal]

I am following this preprint that some of you might have seen but if not, I think it’s worth a look. It’s just a preprint as of yet but the data is interesting.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.07.29.502055v1

Since the initial emergence of SARS-CoV-2 Omicron BA.1, several Omicron sublineages have emerged, leading to BA.5 as the current dominant sublineage. Here we report the neutralization of different Omicron sublineages by human sera collected from individuals who had distinct mRNA vaccination and/or BA.1 infection. Four-dose-vaccine sera neutralize the original USA-WA1/2020, Omicron BA.1, BA.2, BA.212.1, BA.3, and BA.4/5 viruses with geometric mean titers (GMTs) of 1554, 357, 236, 236, 165, and 95, respectively; 2-dose-vaccine-plus-BA.1-infection sera exhibit GMTs of 2114, 1705, 730, 961, 813, and 274, respectively; and 3-dose-vaccine-plus-BA.1-infection sera show GMTs of 2962, 2038, 983, 1190, 1019, and 297, respectively. Thus, 4-dose-vaccine elicits the lowest neutralization against BA.5; 2-dose-vaccine-plus-BA.1-infection elicits significantly higher GMTs against Omicron sublineages than 4-dose-vaccine; and 3-dose-vaccine-plus-BA.1-infection elicits slightly higher GMTs (statistically insignificant) than the 2-dose-vaccine-plus-BA.1-infection. Our results support the inclusion of the BA.5 spike for future vaccine booster doses.

Edited August 3, 2022 by BeachGal
added info

[marbel]

1 hour ago, mathnerd said:

I have said on occasion to people who try to persuade me to get rid of my mask and I don’t want to be confrontational, that I have a sore throat and suspect that it might be a Covid symptom and they leave me alone. It is very easy to fake Covid symptoms if it would make someone more comfortable in a social setting to be the only person wearing a mask.

I find this puzzling? Because I think if I was in a social setting with someone who was exhibiting covid symptoms, I would wonder why the heck they were there if they are sick. Maybe I'm misunderstanding?

I've never been confronted when wearing a mask, and if I was I would be so taken by surprise I probably wouldn't be able to respond, but now that I'm thinking about it, I think I'd like my response to be a very simple and calm "why does my masking matter to you?" while looking straight at the person.  Maybe just maybe it would stop someone from confronting others in the future? Maybe just maybe it would make someone think about the attitudes? (I doubt it, but I can dream, right?)

[mathnerd]

29 minutes ago, marbel said:

I find this puzzling? Because I think if I was in a social setting with someone who was exhibiting covid symptoms, I would wonder why the heck they were there if they are sick. Maybe I'm misunderstanding?

I've never been confronted when wearing a mask, and if I was I would be so taken by surprise I probably wouldn't be able to respond, but now that I'm thinking about it, I think I'd like my response to be a very simple and calm "why does my masking matter to you?" while looking straight at the person.  Maybe just maybe it would stop someone from confronting others in the future? Maybe just maybe it would make someone think about the attitudes? (I doubt it, but I can dream, right?)

Hypothetically, if I had ultra social in-laws and if I “had” to be present at their boisterous party (none with masks, with some who are unvaccinated), if I am the only person wearing a mask, sitting 10 ft away, and an aggressive in-law asks me why I wore a mask and if I thought that they were sick and going to infect me (true story!) and if I didn’t  want to be confrontational, I just lie and say “it’s not you, it’s me who has a sore throat and I am not sure if I am coming down with something, maybe Covid!?”. It has multiple uses: gets them off my case, I don’t have to hear sermons, they stay away from me.

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, wathe said:

It is totally Is about regulatory implications though. Public health messaging and regulatory implications are inextricably linked. The authorities responsible for public health messaging (broadly governments, more narrowly  public health authorities ) are also responsible for regulations regarding public health in workplaces etc. public health messaging stating that the virus is spread through the air, or with a goal of having people behave as though the virus is spread through the air, no matter what kind of euphemisms or skirting language is used, means that workers in essential industries also have to behave as though the virus is spread through the air, and those workers will require  workplace  protection.  And will have the right to refuse unsafe work if they were not provided with that protection. Failing to match public health messaging with  workplace protections and health and safety regulations is impossible. Would result in oodles lawsuits and refusals of unsafe work. 

Public health messaging has to take into account regulatory implications. It’s just impossible for them not to.

I would normally agree with this, but hopefully without getting too political, I want to remind everyone of the absolutely ludicrous daily "public health messaging" we were receiving from the top of the food chain back in 2020. There was zero concern about the accuracy of the information or about any regulatory implications of the incredibly inaccurate messaging that was being spouted at that time. 

[Ting Tang]

5 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Pre-Covid, when I masked (which I did during flu season because of immune issues), people assumed that I had cancer.  Now they assume my politics.  SMH

Oh yes, I totally agree with this.  The main reason I mentioned political stereotypes is because now nobody by me is wearing one, but since I do wear one, I must be a certain way. But now I think everyone just assumes I had Covid.  

[I talk to the trees]

8 hours ago, BeachGal said:

We haven't been masking much lately, either. One son went to Paris and southern France and only masked on the plane. Another went on a cruise and then ran an overnight ultramarathon afterward. My husband and I have travelled a lot and have been eating and shopping in enclosed restaurants and stores. We all live in different multi unit apartments and condos in cities where we share elevators, laundry, etc. with other people. None of us are getting sick or testing positive (cruise requires negative test).

We do use Xlear nasal spray and take a few supplements that I think might be helpful.

We all have had two doses of vaccine, Pfizer, and had omicron infection (most likely) in late winter and spring.

If you are worried and prefer to mask but would like more protection, you could try adding a layer of material soaked in salt that has been allowed to dry. Salt is able to physically destruct viruses which could reduce viral load. There are how-to directions on the internet.

Ultimately, Fauci’s advice about masking led to a lot of this confusion. If you go back and read the transcripts or watch his videos, you can see that his message wasn’t consistent.

That poor man was trapped between the devil and the deep blue sea! He had to walk such  a fine line between reaching and helping as many people as he could, and losing his job for speaking truthfully. Remember what happened with toilet paper for crying out loud? Can you imagine what would have happened if he had dared to suggest that n95s were the best option? The limited supply of n95s that (rightly, imo) went to our nation's HCWs would have wound up sitting in Billy Bob's basement, to either be the object of price-gouging on the Amazon marketplace, or to rot away and never be used. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by I talk to the trees
To bold the part of the quote I was responding to.

[BeachGal]

37 minutes ago, I talk to the trees said:

That poor man was trapped between the devil and the deep blue sea! He had to walk such  a fine line between reaching and helping as many people as he could, and losing his job for speaking truthfully. Remember what happened with toilet paper for crying out loud? Can you imagine what would have happened if he had dared to suggest that n95s were the best option? The limited supply of n95s that (rightly, imo) went to our nation's HCWs would have wound up sitting in Billy Bob's basement, to either be the object of price-gouging on the Amazon marketplace, or to rot away and never be used. 

He was not.

The Strategic National Supply did not have enough masks in stock for health care workers. That was an egregious mistake that cost too many hard working HCWs their lives. Supposedly, they have them now. I hope.

We could have even bought or procured what we needed for HCWs after we realized Covid was here and we didn’t. We were offered excellent, washable masks from Israel and we didn’t accept them.

Shameful.

ETA My husband, now retired, was also a federal employee with a high position. Fauci was in no danger of losing his job, ever.

Edited August 4, 2022 by BeachGal

[TCB]

I’m still masking with at least a KN95 when I go inside anywhere and I don’t eat inside restaurants but will eat on some patios. I do find the study that long Covid is less likely with Omicron reassuring, but I’m also concerned about the cardiovascular risks post infection. I just read that it may be equivalent to uncontrolled hypertension or smoking. I would like more information on that before I risk more exposure. 
I also find it hard to really, fully understand what we really know. A study posted above on neutralizing antibodies seems to contradict another I read about, that appeared to show a 68% reduction in Omicron infection in HCWs who had had 4 vaccines. It’s all so hazy.

I have come across a number of surprisingly youngish people with cardiac issues at work recently. It seems like a lot more than we usually have. My dsil had very mild Covid, and a week or so later had some sort of weird eye thing, where some tissue detached, leaving her with a permanent hazy spot in her vision. These things may not be connected to Covid, but I would love to have more information confirming that. That is why I’m still cautious.

[Corraleno]

38 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

He was not.

The Strategic National Supply did not have enough masks in stock for health care workers. That was an egregious mistake that cost too many hard working HCWs their lives. Supposedly, they have them now. I hope.

We could have even bought or procured what we needed for HCWs after we realized Covid was here and we didn’t. We were offered excellent, washable masks from Israel and we didn’t accept them.

Shameful.

ETA My husband, now retired, was also a federal employee with a high position. Fauci was in no danger of losing his job, ever.

But Fauci had nothing to do with procurement of masks and no say in what we had in the stockpile or whether we bought mask fabric from Israel. The person who was desperately trying to get the administration to take mitigation measures seriously — including repeatedly pushing for the administration to contract with the one and only US supplier of N95s — was Rick Bright. And he did lose his job over it.

[mom2scouts]

We have not been wearing masks for awhile. We were all vaxxed and wearing masks and we all got Covid anyway. I don't care if other people want to wear masks and don't give masks wearers dirty looks or say anything. I'm just not going to wear them anymore unless I'm in a situation where I'm asked to do so. My family rarely gets sick, so preventing illness is not even much of an advantage for us.

My dh has severe hearing loss and depends on being able to read lips, so masks have made his life difficult. His clients and many of our friends aren't aware of the severity of his hearing loss and it's made it hard for him to communicate during meetings and other activities. He's relieved that most people have stopped masking in our area.

[BeachGal]

33 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

But Fauci had nothing to do with procurement of masks and no say in what we had in the stockpile or whether we bought mask fabric from Israel. The person who was desperately trying to get the administration to take mitigation measures seriously — including repeatedly pushing for the administration to contract with the one and only US supplier of N95s — was Rick Bright. And he did lose his job over it.

I did not say Fauci was directly in charge of procurement of masks; however, Fauci was not in danger of losing his job during Covid.

And Fauci did make statements about masks which led to confusion and bad decisions that harmed HCWs. You can find transcripts and videos online. I watched and transcribed one television press briefing early in 2020 and he did say that masks were unnecessary. Yes, as more was learned, he changed his advice but the truth is, we, the US, did not have them stockpiled for HCWs in the first place and that weighed into his advice that they weren’t necessary. Some HCWs believed otherwise and had their own private stash which they tried to use but were forbidden due to their hospital admin believing what Fauci said.