in your opinion, best math progression from Pre-Calc if pursuing IT or Computer Science

[cintinative]

I am way ahead of myself but would appreciate some help thinking this through, because it might affect just how deeply I go into our text this year.

My oldest is a rising junior. We are going to do Pre-Calc at home this year.  So his sequence through the end of his junior year (this coming school year) will be:

• Dolciani Algebra I (complete text)
• Jurgensen Geometry (complete)
• Dolciani Algebra II with Trigonometry (complete text except chapter on matrices)
• plan for this year:  Brown's Precalculus with Discrete Mathematics.  My plan is to use the accelerated precalc schedule AND add in some of the discrete math sections. He will cover matrices. While there is some repetition from the Alg II/Trig text, it is a deeper dive, and the discrete math includes some new content.  If I include the discrete math, we will probably be working right up until the fall 2023 term starts. If I thought we were covering Pre-Calc again after this, I might adjust the plan somewhat. 

So, what next after this year (junior year)?

IF he goes into IT/digital media, it looks like he will need college Pre-Calc.  While he could have taken that this year, I thought we needed another year at home before we pursued math at the college pacing.  We tend to go slowly.  IF he pursues computer science, Calculus is in the line up. I honestly don't know which one he will pursue. He is really interested in the design end of things but he does like coding so far. 

Next year, we have multiple options. 

1. We would take Pre-Calc again, this time at the local university, for credit through the dual enrollment program.  This would count toward a degree in IT in state if he decides to go that way.  It's a required course for both local colleges I have looked at and should transfer anywhere in state.   It could perhaps be good to have an experience of a different teacher and the pacing of a college course using material that would be familiar. If we end up out of state somehow, I guess there is the risk it won't transfer, and then he will have to take it again or CLEP out.

2.  We could CLEP out of Pre-Calc and take Calculus at home via Derek Owens or Blue Tent or something like that.  I'm not 100% on him taking Calculus yet. I really will have to see how he does with this year of Precalc. If he does this, then I would assume he would take Calculus again at the college level at the university, unless the major doesn't require it. 

3. We could CLEP out of PreCalc and take Statistics. 

4. Some other option I likely haven't thought of.  😃

Thanks hive!

[Clarita]

My kids are young so take what I say with a grain of salt. I would pursue as if he were going into Computer Science. According to my husband (who is a Computer Science major) it would be the "harder" major so if you go for that and decide to do IT/digital media it would be an easier switch.

[Lilaclady]

I think it depends on where he is likely to go to college.
For my dd that is a CS major, her sequence was alg1, geo, alg 2, precalc, AP calc BC, multivariable calc etc.

 she also did a lot of AOPS courses but that’s the main sequence. I don’t know why he will need to take college precalc when he will already have precalc from junior year. If he needs to go slow, I will advice taking Ap calc AB. Computer science in most colleges is quite competitive so you want to give him any competitive edge that he can get. Taking college precalc in senior year will not be an advantage after taking it in junior year. 

[Farrar]

If he's going to go for even somewhat competitive schools for CS, calculus is something he would really, really benefit from having in order to be competitive as an applicant. So with that in mind, I think you should aim for any options (whether CLEP, taking pre-calc in the summer since it'll be a repeat, finding out if he can exempt, etc.) that allow him to get that calc credit senior year.

[EKS]

Whatever you do, you want to make sure his precalculus is solid.  

The DO calculus course is actually pretty easy to go through quickly, and it's excellent. 

I agree with Farrar that having calculus in high school may be a good thing.  There is nothing wrong with retaking it in college.  Both of my kids chose to do this. 

 

[Farrar]

Yeah, it's like @EKS is saying about how it's about what (if anything) to retake. And you want the retake to be calculus just so the timing works out in his favor for admissions.

[Denise in IN]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

If he's going to go for even somewhat competitive schools for CS, calculus is something he would really, really benefit from having in order to be competitive as an applicant. So with that in mind, I think you should aim for any options (whether CLEP, taking pre-calc in the summer since it'll be a repeat, finding out if he can exempt, etc.) that allow him to get that calc credit senior year.

Yes, this for sure. My son (incoming Computer Science major at Purdue) did a solid Pre-Cal in junior year and then did dual credit Calc 1 & 2 at a local university his senior year.  Two benefits:  having Calc 1 on his transcript made him a more competitive applicant, and now he's entering with Calc 1 & 2 done.  (Bonus, doesn't have to take those at Purdue!  Purdue Calc classes are monsters. 🤪)

It will not hurt your son to have the Calculus regardless of what major he chooses to pursue.

[regentrude]

13 hours ago, cintinative said:

IF he goes into IT/digital media, it looks like he will need college Pre-Calc. 

1. We would take Pre-Calc again, this time at the local university, for credit through the dual enrollment program.  This would count toward a degree in IT in state if he decides to go that way.  It's a required course for both local colleges I have looked at

Your title mentions computer science. For comp sci, at many colleges precalculus is considered remedial, and only calc 1 and up count towards the degree. So I don't see why for-credit-precalc would be needed.

If he has solid precalculus, I would make sure he takes calculus 1- not necessarily for credit, but in order to have a solid foundation for calc 1 for science and engineering majors.
Discrete math is very beneficial for comp sci, but for college applications, I would make sure calc 1 is on the highschool transcript.

[Kassia]

My dd is a computer science major and did all of her upper level math as DE.  She did Calc 1 and Calc 2 in her junior year and then Linear Algebra and Discrete Math in her senior year.  We knew she'd have excellent math professors and a solid foundation so we were comfortable with this.  She didn't need to retake anything in college and was able to go directly to Discrete Math 2 already knowing much of the material.  But everyone isn't fortunate enough to have such great professors available (her DE professors were way better in general than the professors at the college she attends now - same with her older brothers who did DE and went on to a different university).

 

 

[cintinative]

Thank you everyone! This really helped.  

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm also in the camp suggesting calculus in high school, rather than a repeat of precalculus senior year. He would want to make sure his precalc skills AND work habits are solid, since the college course will be not only harder material, but probably a faster pace.

One of my kids majored in computer science in college. He mentioned that many classmates took Discrete Math over the summer at local community colleges to open up their schedule at the university. Discrete Math was a requirement for CS majors, but didn't have a proscribed place in the sequence. I wouldn't suggest that in place of calculus, but it's an idea for the summer as a college student. (Do get pre-approval from the department and university, so he knows the course he takes will be accepted for transfer credit.)

[Malam]

Assuming he performs adequately, I can't see any reason for retaking precalc senior year instead of CLEP-ing precalc (or not, most colleges will have their own math placement) and taking another math course or 2 in senior year, whether that be calculus, discrete math, or statistics.

Quote

If he does this, then I would assume he would take Calculus again at the college level at the university, unless the major doesn't require it. 

Considering that some Computer Science majors don't require math beyond discrete math and/or calculus, it's possible that if his senior year calc transfers, he won't need to take any further calculus classes.

FWIW, I'd say that discrete math will be more relevant to your son's career than calculus. Also, his math curriculum so far is plenty strong; I'd be fine with him taking calc BC if he wanted to.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Malam

[Momto6inIN]

Echoing other advice: if his pre-calc is strong, there's no real reason not to do calc and at least a couple good reasons it would be helpful.

My oldest just finished a CS degree from Purude, and his sequence going in to college was VT Alg 1 & 2 (8th), VT Geometry (9th), AoPS C&P and NT (10th), AoPS PreCalc (11th), and AoPS Calc with a self study BC AP exam (12th). He began uni at Calc 3 and it really opened up a lot of upper level coursework for him that he was excited about and might not have had time for if he'd had to do the traditional calc sequence.

CS is such a competitive major these days that I'd be nervous about an application that didn't have Calc on it somewhere, even though knowing you on these boards I'm sure he'd be a stellar applicant. They really expect to see Calc.

[Malam]

On 7/28/2022 at 5:01 PM, Momto6inIN said:

Echoing other advice: if his pre-calc is strong, there's no real reason not to do calc and at least a couple good reasons it would be helpful.

My oldest just finished a CS degree from Purude, and his sequence going in to college was VT Alg 1 & 2 (8th), VT Geometry (9th), AoPS C&P and NT (10th), AoPS PreCalc (11th), and AoPS Calc with a self study BC AP exam (12th). He began uni at Calc 3 and it really opened up a lot of upper level coursework for him that he was excited about and might not have had time for if he'd had to do the traditional calc sequence.

CS is such a competitive major these days that I'd be nervous about an application that didn't have Calc on it somewhere, even though knowing you on these boards I'm sure he'd be a stellar applicant. They really expect to see Calc.

By VT do you mean videotext? How was the transition to AoPS in 10th grade?

[Momto6inIN]

2 hours ago, Malam said:

By VT do you mean videotext? How was the transition to AoPS in 10th grade?

Yes, Video Text. The transition worked great for this particular DS because he is very mathy and flew through VT and because AoPS is just a wonderful fit for him. I wish I'd found it sooner for him, but I didn't hear about AoPS until after he was already doing Algebra and Geometry with VT.

Switching to a discovery method for my other kids after VT would not have been a great decision - they shudder just looking at the AoPS books lol! So the other 2 I've graduated so far have done Chalkdust for PreCalc.

I think AoPS in general is exceptionally great for a very certain type of student who really truly loves math and enjoys spending hours thinking about it and working on it. Lots of very bright kids who are good at math but don't love math will not like AoPS or thrive with it, imo and ime.

[mjbucks1]

Seconding the advice of many others.  Our oldest majored in CS and he took two years of Calculus in high school.  This was EXTREMELY helpful, as was having a strong physics background.  At his university, CS was in the engineering department and everyone had to take an introduction to engineering class.  The students that had previously had calculus and physics did very well.  Even though calc and physics were not pre-reqs for the class, those students that did not have those classes struggled A LOT.  So taking calculus senior year would be very helpful.