Help with fostering kittens - meaning not being a foster failure

[Selkie]

The mama cat looks incredibly stressed, which is understandable. Her fear is probably interfering with her mothering abilities. My guess is she doesn’t want to lie on her side because that makes her more vulnerable and unable to quickly escape from danger.  I hope you are able to find a rescue or someone with experience who can work with her to help her become more comfortable with humans.

[happi duck]

When we have fostered for a shelter we've either bottle-fed kittens when mama died or got the kittens for socializing after they weaned.

When we took in a pregnant stray she did not want us taking the kittens away.  She would literally take them back from anyone holding them.

I am concerned that this is a very stressful situation for this kitty family.

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, happi duck said:

When we have fostered for a shelter we've either bottle-fed kittens when mama died or got the kittens for socializing after they weaned.

When we took in a pregnant stray she did not want us taking the kittens away.  She would literally take them back from anyone holding them.

I am concerned that this is a very stressful situation for this kitty family.

It definitely sounds like mama is incredibly stressed, but I'm not sure what the right thing to do is.  One kitten already died.  The others are smaller than they should be for their age.  I mean, I guess it's possible if they were ignored, that she'd take better care of them, but it also is possible that she isn't maternal; that certainly does happen sometimes.  But I definitely feel very sorry for mama.  I hope she can be spayed and freed once the kittens are weaned.  

[saraha]

I’m sorry you are having a rough time. Our split faced momma, she is not overly maternal. She is a bare minimum kind of girl even with the second litter. The new momma on the other hand is super attentive if her kitten and even Let’s one of the older kittens nurse on her.  I really hope you are at least enjoying the kittens, it’s so good for you. And If I were you, I wouldn’t worry about kitten socialization, you guys are doing great!

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Selkie said:

The mama cat looks incredibly stressed, which is understandable. Her fear is probably interfering with her mothering abilities. My guess is she doesn’t want to lie on her side because that makes her more vulnerable and unable to quickly escape from danger.  I hope you are able to find a rescue or someone with experience who can work with her to help her become more comfortable with humans.

I think that’s a good guess of why she doesn’t want to lie on her side. Wondering if there’s an alternate space not in the house where she could be more relaxed with her kittens. Do you have any secure out buildings where she couldn’t escape? Just thinking she might relax and be able to mother more if she wasn’t feeling stressed by having people around. 
 

eta: this site has very detailed instructions on a set up for a feral mom indoors with kittens. Their first recommendation is actually not to bring feral mom and kittens inside until it’s time for the kittens to be separated, but since that’s already been done, a set up like this might help. Seems like the mom needs somewhere that she can hide in there and feel secure.  In addition to a little carrier or some thing inside for her, perhaps you could hang a sheet or shower curtain outside your little enclosure so it feels safe when you’re not around?

https://feralcatfocus.org/colony-management-feral-cat-set-up-long-term-fosters/

Edited May 28, 2022 by KSera

[saraha]

I’m sorry this has been so difficult 😞 but it sounds like your family is doing a great job with the kittens!

[stephanier.1765]

What about putting blankets on the cage? That might give her more of a den feel. I've noticed when the feral cats around her have kittens that they try to find a small out of the way spot and the blankets might give her that secure feeling. Good luck! I know how stressful this can be.

[shawthorne44]

When I just now looked in on the kittens, the mama was actually on her side!    With all 5 kittens on her tummy!   

They are actually fairly away from us.   We come by to check on them and to snag some kittens, but otherwise mama doesn't even see people.   The mudroom is in the addition which is under construction.   That is included within the house at the moment, so it has HVAC and electricity.  I live in the Texas, and the heat might have been a stressor for them.    Between the mudroom and the part of the house we live in is another 15' deep of addition that will eventually be an extension on the living room.   It is filled with construction supplies.   So, we don't really use it except to navigate around the obstacle course to get to the kittens.   DH is working on the other side of the house getting the house cat-ready.    The plan is to put the litter-thingy in the master bathroom with a cat pass-through opening from DD's room.  

Daughter just snagged Sunshine and one of the other orange ones.    The gray tabbies were in the back and the mama was eating near the front with the other orange one near her, so I left them alone.    I want to love on all the kittens equally, but the orange ones are more brave.  

I have noticed that her aggression really comes forwards in regards to food.  Even returning the food bowl filled causes an attack.   I also hope that being well-fed, with fresh water, a clean litterbox and mostly left alone maybe her milk supply will improve.   

DH and I discussed what to do with the mama.  Someone had been worried we'd release her as is, that isn't an option.  Last thing I want is for her to add more unwanted kittens to the world.   I also don't want to release her neutered around our house because we have chickens and she's mean.   True, there are cats around outside already, but she might be different.   Unlike the other cats around who I suspect are being fed, she has always had to hunt.   We suspect our friends wouldn't mind her around if she was neutered.   They have dogs that protect their chickens, sheep, etc.   So, at the moment that is the leading plan.  

We are really really enjoying the kittens.   Of the two dark orange cats one likes to sleep in the crook of my elbow.  Batman seems to prefer sleeping at the back of DH's neck.   Sunshine just has us all charmed.   Last night, DH was home alone and he had Sunshine out and set him on the floor while he ran around the room doing things.   Sunshine kept following him around.   DH is one who has never liked cats.   So, when he suggested we keep them all, that is saying something.  So, we may end up being a foster failure after all.   

Covering the cage with a blanket sounds like a good idea.   I really want her to feel secure, yet I also want to deny her the chance to withhold milk from the kittens.  Blanket on top might help her feel secure.  
 

Edited May 28, 2022 by shawthorne44

[shawthorne44]

Another update on the kittens.   Everyone is doing well.   The kittens using less formula when we offer a bottle.   So, either the mama is nursing more or they are eating the kitten food.   Either way, non-hungry kittens are good.   Mama seems hungry and we've already gone through a bag of the kitten food.  Non-hungry mama is also good.  

They do know how to use the litter box.   I'd thought they could or maybe they were just playing in there.  They would always pause in the litter box on the way to the door to us.   We have to leave the litter box just inside the door so that we can clean it without being mauled.   

They do clean themselves a bit.  I haven't seen anyone do a complete clean but they do lick their paws, or our chin.   Two of them needed another bath yesterday.    One accidentally pooped on the paw of another one while they were playfighting and then they continued to playfight.   Boys!   

We suspect that they are all boys. 

At yesterday's weight check they were between 8-12 oz.   So, much improvement.   

DH and I were talking about the cats and how they were at our friends.   Our theory is that her being a bad mom did help them to not be feral when we got them.  She left them in the cabinet where she gave birth rather than taking them to where she was hiding.   This allowed the kids on the farm to play with them starting when they were first found.  So, they been handled starting when their eyes were still closed.  

 

[shawthorne44]

Do you guys have a recommendation for clumping cat litter?   
Shortly before my last cat died, my favorite litter was bought out by one of the inferior brands and then removed.  

Kittens are gaining weight.   We didn't write down their weights when we first got them.   But the biggest starting weight was 7.4 oz last Monday and Dumpling was 15+oz last night.   Dumpling has always been the biggest.   

ETA:   The mama's mothering is much improved.   She regularly lays on her side and she goes into attack mode when she thinks she needs to defend a kitten.  

We are naming the other darker orange kitten Lexxie as a nickname for Alexander since he wants to explore and conquer.  

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by shawthorne44

[stephanier.1765]

2 hours ago, shawthorne44 said:

Do you guys have a recommendation for clumping cat litter?   
Shortly before my last cat died, my favorite litter was bought out by one of the inferior brands and then removed.  

Kittens are gaining weight.   We didn't write down their weights when we first got them.   But the biggest starting weight was 7.4 oz last Monday and Dumpling was 15+oz last night.   Dumpling has always been the biggest.   

ETA:   The mama's mothering is much improved.   She regularly lays on her side and she goes into attack mode when she thinks she needs to defend a kitten.  

We are naming the other darker orange kitten Lexxie as a nickname for Alexander since he wants to explore and conquer.  

 

Cute names! My favorite clumping litter is Dr. Elsey's but when our kittens were little we used a paper litter instead. We were afraid of the little ones eating the clumping stuff but I don't know if that's a real issue or not.  Hopefully somebody smarter than me will reply

[shawthorne44]

We've been watching them closely, and they don't seem to do that.     Kittens can play in anything so we were watching to see if they were playing or using the litter.  

We have been using some litter that we kept around for home uses.    DH asked me which one to get at the store.   I had to say I had no idea.   

DH keeps trying to stick with Loaf and Toast which were "Temporary Names" that he gave them.   DD and I aren't having it.    I also pointed out that you can't say something was a temporary name and then insist it sticks.   DH and DD watch One Piece and they've expanded the name of Sunny to something like, "1000 Sunnies" after the boat in the show.  

[happi duck]

We were always told clay for kittens.  I think clumping can stick to fur and be ingested when grooming.  Their little digestive tracks can't handle the clumping.

[Selkie]

1 hour ago, happi duck said:

We were always told clay for kittens.  I think clumping can stick to fur and be ingested when grooming.  Their little digestive tracks can't handle the clumping.

Agree - clumping litters are not safe for kittens. 

[livetoread]

Cat rescue kid works for says no clumping for kitten fosters. Once they are old enough (don't know when that is) Wirecutter rates Dr. Elsey's as best. I just use unscented Fresh Step which works fine, but if there was an unscented one that gets tracked less, I'd like that.

[shawthorne44]

Clay for the babies.   OK.   When they are big enough to climb into the litter-thingy I'll switch to clumping.   
I do prefer unscented.    

[shawthorne44]

Update for anyone curious.  

The momma has really settled down.   She's even given me the blinkie-look a few times.  Cat people know what I'm talking about.   But, she still attacks my oven mitt hand when I add water and hisses regularly.    We also see her on her side much more often.   That is the important part.    The other day we had all few kittens out of the cage for several hours and then she started to howl.    We figured out that she was full of milk.    So, we put the two smallest kittens in with her.   She seems happiest when she only has 2-3 kittens.   So, we leave her at least two for most of the day, swapping them out.   Then all 5 kittens at night.  

The first vet appointment was Monday and the vet mentioned when I made the appointment that they might be too small.    So, I called and we postponed the appointment to when we get back from vacation.  The kittens weigh between 15.5 and 22.5 oz.   They were found May 8th with their eyes open.  The vet said that feral kittens open their eyes earlier.   So, the kittens might be younger than we originally thought.  
 

[shawthorne44]

Small add.  

I like to have a birthdate for my pets.   Even for our rescued dog we assigned a birthdate.   They said she was 3 years old, so we assigned 3 years before the day we got her.   

They were found on May 8th.   Since they probably opened their eyes earlier than normal, we assigned May 4th.    As Star Wars nerds that appeals to us.   When the first time I told DH that I loved him he said, "I know."    I'm also Episcopalian so the "May the force be with you" "And also with you" tickles me.   

[shawthorne44]

We are now without Mrs. Grinch.   It really is a relief.   The kittens had started to notice her growling and hissing at us.  

The kittens have really discovered their purring.   I just love it when you pick them up and they start purring.  They also sleep in our beds.   

DD is going to an Electronics camps in the mornings this week.   This morning was the first that they've been alone in the house since we got them.   Well, I think we went out to eat once.  We had to leave super early in this morning, and DH who was trying to sleep said that they stampeded up and down the hallway looking for DD or I.   Then he did some work in the attic for a few hours and when he came down they were all over him.   

We haven't told DD that we are keeping them all.   We want her to develop some favorites and she's picked Randolph and Sunny.   I'm a cat-person by nature, and I'm old which makes me restful.   And when I'm working from home, I also provide a comfy lap all day.  So it will be natural for the cats to prefer me.  Our hope is that this way, if Lexxie crawls into my lap her feelings won't be hurt.   
 

[Catwoman]

10 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

We are now without Mrs. Grinch.   It really is a relief.   The kittens had started to notice her growling and hissing at us.  

The kittens have really discovered their purring.   I just love it when you pick them up and they start purring.  They also sleep in our beds.   

DD is going to an Electronics camps in the mornings this week.   This morning was the first that they've been alone in the house since we got them.   Well, I think we went out to eat once.  We had to leave super early in this morning, and DH who was trying to sleep said that they stampeded up and down the hallway looking for DD or I.   Then he did some work in the attic for a few hours and when he came down they were all over him.   

We haven't told DD that we are keeping them all.   We want her to develop some favorites and she's picked Randolph and Sunny.   I'm a cat-person by nature, and I'm old which makes me restful.   And when I'm working from home, I also provide a comfy lap all day.  So it will be natural for the cats to prefer me.  Our hope is that this way, if Lexxie crawls into my lap her feelings won't be hurt.   
 

We're going to need some proof of life here.

Photos preferred. 😉 

[Terabith]

Was Mrs. Grinch the older kitten’s mama? Are all the kittens still nursing from young mama?

[saraha]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Was Mrs. Grinch the older kitten’s mama? Are all the kittens still nursing from young mama?

I think you are thinking of our kittens, we still have old momma and new momma and all five kittens.

[Terabith]

24 minutes ago, saraha said:

I think you are thinking of our kittens, we still have old momma and new momma and all five kittens.

Yes, I was.  Sorry!

[shawthorne44]

 

The Mama Cat was really really mean.   I'd be 3' feet away from the front of the Broody Jail, and she'd hiss and charge at me with teeth and claws.     So, whenever I saw her, in my head I'd sing, "You're a mean one, Mrs. Grinch."    So, eventually I just started to call her Mrs.  Grinch.    

I'll post photos soon.   I just need to connect my cell phone.   

 

[KSera]

What did you do with mama cat?

[shawthorne44]

I took her to the shelter.  I'd gone back and forth but the tipping point was that I didn't want to release her in our area.   There are outdoor cats in the neighborhood that I'd classify as semi-feral.  I am fine with those cats.   But, I worried that this one would eat our chickens and in the process teach the neighborhood cats how yummy they are.   So then I thought about maybe releasing her in the suburban (chicken-free) neighborhood we used to live in.   I could also see a kid trying to pet her, and she'd shred their face.   It also seemed bad thing to foist her on some innocent people.   

I was shocked when I went in that they'd had many kittens up for adoption.   What saddened me most was that 10 of 12 kittens looked just like the ones at home.  I always thought of kittens as quick to be adopted.  I remember one cat we got as a companion kitten to our pet cat who was in mourning.   The last half of his tail literally dragged on the ground.  If we didn't get a kitten that weekend we were worried he would literally die of sorrow.   The shelter had no kittens and we got the last kitten available in the city of 250K.  He was overjoyed.   For the first 6 months, she didn't clean herself because he cleaned her and a bit too much.   
 

 

[KSera]

4 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

I took her to the shelter.  I'd gone back and forth but the tipping point was that I didn't want to release her in our area.   There are outdoor cats in the neighborhood that I'd classify as semi-feral.  I am fine with those cats.   But, I worried that this one would eat our chickens and in the process teach the neighborhood cats how yummy they are.   So then I thought about maybe releasing her in the suburban (chicken-free) neighborhood we used to live in.   I could also see a kid trying to pet her, and she'd shred their face.   It also seemed bad thing to foist her on some innocent people.

 

Hopefully it was a no kill shelter with a feral cat program. Clearly she can’t be adopted out. I thought she was going to be spayed, tipped and released. Cats rarely kill chickens and especially not adult chickens. And a feral cat is not going to let a child ever get close enough to even try to pet it. She sounded like a normal wild cat.

[happi duck]

40 minutes ago, KSera said:

Hopefully it was a no kill shelter with a feral cat program. Clearly she can’t be adopted out. I thought she was going to be spayed, tipped and released. Cats rarely kill chickens and especially not adult chickens. And a feral cat is not going to let a child ever get close enough to even try to pet it. She sounded like a normal wild cat.

Ita!

Kitten season is so hard on shelters and the season seems to be getting longer according to people I know in shelter systems.  It is so important to spay and neuter in time and not adopt out kittens before then.  TNR is also very important.

[shawthorne44]

I was talking to a friend that volunteers at a shelter.   They said it is really really bad now.   People are saying that they can't afford pet food anymore.   

[KSera]

21 hours ago, happi duck said:

Kitten season is so hard on shelters and the season seems to be getting longer according to people I know in shelter systems.  It is so important to spay and neuter in time and not adopt out kittens before then.  TNR is also very important.

Shelters near us are seeing 4 times more kittens than a typical kitten season. I’m not sure what’s driving that. Did a lot of people get pandemic cats from neighbors who had kittens and then released them when they went back to work without spaying or neutering them?