More Michigan School shooting updates, one good, one bad. I will lead with the good.

[Forget-Me-Not]

8 hours ago, Corraleno said:

More info here: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2021/12/04/james-jennifer-crumbley-oxford-school-shooting-suspect/8865574002/

The owner of the building where they parked noticed the car around 11:50 PM and knew it didn't belong there. Went to investigate, saw the car and plate matched the description released by police, and called 911. He said he saw a woman smoking a cigarette near the car, who walked away when he went over to inspect the car. They were arrested just before 2:00 AM.

It would seem these people are either really stupid or have a vastly overblown sense of their own invincibility.  Their 15-yo kid is in custody and they RUN to save their own butts? They just made things a thousand times worse for themselves, and probably him too. 

[Farrar]

I'm always wary of the whole line that we can prevent school shootings by profiling unhappy loner kids. Like, having known a lot of unhappy loner kids over the years, I don't think coming under suspicion that they're inevitably at risk to shoot up the school is particularly a helpful mentality. And the idea that in a society where guns are super freely available that we can prevent school shootings by just focusing on the "weird" kids is so offensive and straight up incorrect.

BUT... BUT. THIS particular school shooting probably could have been 100% prevented by that. Because we can both be critical of the narrative that "we can stop school shootings" that way and we can show some common bleeping sense when kids are actually crying out for help and/or have extra easy access to weapons.

[Pam in CT]

Re not-always-helpful mental health trope, as a general default... vs particular circumstances of this particular very-sad incident

23 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'm always wary of the whole line that we can prevent school shootings by profiling unhappy loner kids. Like, having known a lot of unhappy loner kids over the years, I don't think coming under suspicion that they're inevitably at risk to shoot up the school is particularly a helpful mentality. And the idea that in a society where guns are super freely available that we can prevent school shootings by just focusing on the "weird" kids is so offensive and straight up incorrect.

BUT... BUT. THIS particular school shooting probably could have been 100% prevented by that. Because we can both be critical of the narrative that "we can stop school shootings" that way and we can show some common bleeping sense when kids are actually crying out for help and/or have extra easy access to weapons.

Yes, this is exactly how I'm receiving this.

As a general, societal matter towards a more perfect union... I'm all for public policy measures that increases insurance coverage for mental health services, and increases accessibility to such services, and decreases stigma about utilization of such services, and channeling such services toward adolescents specifically, including in schools and including enabling adolescents who want such services *even if their own parents resist such services* because parents' sense of resistance/ shame/ stigma /etc.  I'm all for training teachers and administrators on how to recognize red flags and providing meaningful channels of referral for them when/if they see such red flags.  Enabling adolescents who need and want mental health services is a good until itself; and is, also, a necessary element to reducing adolescent violence.

And at the same time: not sufficient to stop adolescent violence. 

And not only do I share the concern you're raising -- a very great number of adolescents struggle with "mental health"; and tarring them all as inclined to turn around and massacre their peers is neither helpful in reducing shootings as a systemic issue nor helpful in helping the kids one by one -- but I also note that "Mental Health!!" has emerged as a sort of repeated counter on the part of 2A absolutists to the repeated calls on the part of gun safety advocates in the uniquely American ritual call-and-response in the aftermath of yet another school shooting.

 

But.

In this case.

This poor under-parented, then literally-abandoned kid. His poor teachers, who noticed and were unable either to stop him or save him.

And the kids he left dead, and also the ones who survived with their memories and what they now walk around with.

 

[Corraleno]

Judge set bail for the parents at $500,000 each, with the conditions of wearing GPS monitors and surrendering all weapons (although I think the police already confiscated all their guns when they searched the house after the shooting). Police say that the Crumbleys had help accessing the building where they were hiding, and that the person who let them in may also face charges.

Their lawyers are still lying that they planned to turn themselves in and weren't on the run, despite the fact that they no-showed the arraignment, withdrew $4000 from their bank account, and were caught at 2 :00 AM hiding in the basement of a commercial building in Detroit. The lawyers are also claiming that the gun was locked up, which may contradict what the dad told 911 when he called to report it missing and what the police found when they searched the house, because police have been saying it was in an unlocked drawer from the very beginning. Makes me wonder if these claims are really just a cynical ploy for fund-raising purposes, hoping to spur the 2A crowd to start a gofundme to cover the legal costs of this poor couple who are being persecuted by an anti-gun prosecutor. Without a gofundme, I don't know where the Crumbleys are going to get $100K in cash to bond out plus the money to pay these lawyers. 

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Corraleno

[goldberry]

I feel so bad for the teachers who kept reporting only to watch nothing be done.

[Pam in CT]

10 minutes ago, goldberry said:

I feel so bad for the teachers who kept reporting only to watch nothing be done.

Yeah.  They did what they could, but I'm sure those four dead kids weigh heavily upon them.

[katilac]

14 hours ago, Frances said:

Do you think the parents are actually paying those lawyers? Do they have that kind of money? Or are the lawyers doing it for publicity? Or is someone else (NRA?) funding the defense?

Oakland County is in the top ten wealthiest counties in the country. 

Edited to add that the NRA keeps trying to declare bankruptcy, so probably not funding anybody's defense. I think even they would back away from this case. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by katilac

[Pawz4me]

41 minutes ago, katilac said:

Oakland County is in the top ten wealthiest counties in the country. 

 

Do you have a cite for that? Not being argumentative, but I just did a Google and can't find it anywhere on any "wealthiest counties" list. It's not even listed by one source I looked at as the wealthiest county in MI, so I have serious doubts it could be in the top ten nationally.

ETA: U.S. Census data lists the median household income in Oakland County from 2015-2019 (in 2019 dollars) as $79,698 and median home value at $242,700. No way are they anywhere near the top ten wealthiest counties in the country. Maybe you saw stats for an Oakland County in a different state?

Edited December 4, 2021 by Pawz4me

[regentrude]

43 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Do you have a cite for that? Not being argumentative, but I just did a Google and can't find it anywhere on any "wealthiest counties" list. It's not even listed by one source I looked at as the wealthiest county in MI, so I have serious doubts it could be in the top ten nationally.

ETA: U.S. Census data lists the median household income in Oakland County from 2015-2019 (in 2019 dollars) as $79,698 and median home value at $242,700. No way are they anywhere near the top ten wealthiest counties in the country. Maybe you saw stats for an Oakland County in a different state?

But in the 2010 census, Oakland County Michigan is indeed #7 on the list of wealthiest counties, with a median household income of 99k

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States

[melmichigan]

The honor walk for Justin Shilling was yesterday afternoon.  

Edited December 5, 2021 by melmichigan

[Frances]

7 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

I haven’t been in the high school, just the middle school. I’d say pretty posh is a good description with classes averaging about 18-20 kids. My kids would have gone to public if we’d have been able to afford to live there.  Very science/engineering strong with a huge pull from Delphi and Ford among other big names, basically  “the suburbs” to Auburn Hills and Troy. 

The honor walk for Justin Shilling was yesterday afternoon.  

Does anyone know what the parents do for a living?

[Pam in CT]

A case could be made this is... tone deaf... coming from a US Representative, this week, sigh.

 

And also gets to the real and serious difficulty that teachers and school officials have, in discerning the red flags they need to act upon.  This kind of JK!! all in good fun posturing/ signalling has become sufficiently normative, among adults who are supposed to be role models, that it's pretty hard to argue that a similar social media post by a high school student, flaunting weapons and musing about ammo, should be regarded as a red flag.

[katilac]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

But in the 2010 census, Oakland County Michigan is indeed #7 on the list of wealthiest counties, with a median household income of 99k

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States

Yes, it might not be completely accurate anymore, but I know for sure that there is hella money in that county. Rochester Hills, where they got money from the ATM, is an extremely wealthy area. 

I haven't seen specifically where they live or work, but presumably they live in the county the school is in. 

[Corraleno]

According to Realtor.com, they bought their house for $72K in 2018 and it's now worth ~$113K. It's a 2 BR 1 BA, around 1000 sq ft. These are not folks who are gong to be able to raise $100K cash for bail, or pay their lawyers, without some kind of fund raiser.

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Frances said:

Does anyone know what the parents do for a living?

According to this article the mother is a real estate agent. And in reference to the father it says "who has worked as a technology salesman." Which is past tense. So no idea what he does currently, or if he's unemployed.

[melmichigan]

 

1 hour ago, katilac said:

Yes, it might not be completely accurate anymore, but I know for sure that there is hella money in that county. Rochester Hills, where they got money from the ATM, is an extremely wealthy area. 

I haven't seen specifically where they live or work, but presumably they live in the county the school is in. 

Yes, the county has big money.  Oxford is more on the outskirts where you mesh small pockets of suburbs with farming.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

According to Realtor.com, they bought their house for $72K in 2018 and it's now worth ~$113K. It's a 2 BR 1 BA, around 1000 sq ft. These are not folks who are gong to be able to raise $100K cash for bail, or pay their lawyers, without some kind of fund raiser.

I’m not sure there’s a single house in my entire state that one could buy for $113k unless it is a mobile home. It’s interesting that such a wealthy area would still have homes available for around $100k.

[Corraleno]

According to his Linked In page, James Crumbley worked for a company called Monarch from Feb-July 2021; Monarch confirmed he was fired in July. After that he was listed as working for a company called Autonomous, which has been described as an office supply company.

Jennifer Crumbley had a real estate license from 2013 to 2018, but she let it lapse in 2018. In the 2016 letter/blog post to Trump she complained that she was the only breadwinner after her husband had a stroke and a back injury, and said she was only making $40K/yr.