Early Marriage

[TexasProud]

9 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

This is what I’ve been seeing for years now. Most don’t marry young but they are choosing to live together at the same “too young for marriage” ages.  So I don’t really understand the hoopla over “young” marriages. Most are living together and not deciding to get married until they have decided they want to get pregnant.

 

9 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

This is what I’ve been seeing for years now. Most don’t marry young but they are choosing to live together at the same “too young for marriage” ages.  So I don’t really understand the hoopla over “young” marriages. Most are living together and not deciding to get married until they have decided they want to get pregnant.

Well I am equally aghast at this as young marriage. 

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

 

Well I am equally aghast at this as young marriage. 

Why are you against young marriage (assuming they are of age and self supporting) ?  Just curious. 

[hippymamato3]

My parents got married at 18 and just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary. Not from a religious family. I don't think it's a new thing or a new trend. Sometimes people do...and sometimes people don't. 

[TexasProud]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Why are you against young marriage (assuming they are of age and self supporting) ?  Just curious. 

 

1 minute ago, hippymamato3 said:

My parents got married at 18 and just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary. Not from a religious family. I don't think it's a new thing or a new trend. Sometimes people do...and sometimes people don't. 

Yes, 50 years ago it was much more common. I think it might be ok in a few cases, but at least in my area, 10 kids getting engaged immediately after graduation just feels like egging each other on.  I think it is a very, very rare couple that are mature enough in this day and age to be married. Not impossible, but rare.  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

 

Yes, 50 years ago it was much more common. I think it might be ok in a few cases, but at least in my area, 10 kids getting engaged immediately after graduation just feels like egging each other on.  I think it is a very, very rare couple that are mature enough in this day and age to be married. Not impossible, but rare.  

My issue is not with someone getting married at 18.  But chances are they have been dating for a couple of years....starting when they were still in school, under parental control, etc.  I think you need a minute after graduation to figure out who you are, what you want etc.  I have friends who knew each other well for many years....but did not start dating until she was 19 and had lived on her own for a year.  They were married within 6 months.  I think they have a wonderful little family now.  

So it really just depends on the situation, the two people involved etc.  I think it is unwise to assume every young marriage is foolish.  

[TexasProud]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

My issue is not with someone getting married at 18.  But chances are they have been dating for a couple of years....starting when they were still in school, under parental control, etc.  I think you need a minute after graduation to figure out who you are, what you want etc.  I have friends who knew each other well for many years....but did not start dating until she was 19 and had lived on her own for a year.  They were married within 6 months.  I think they have a wonderful little family now.  

So it really just depends on the situation, the two people involved etc.  I think it is unwise to assume every young marriage is foolish.  

Perhaps, but 10 such marriages. That feels foolish.

[RootAnn]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

  I think you need a minute after graduation to figure out who you are, what you want etc.

My mom felt this way about me needing to be on my own after graduation, but it was college graduation she was referring to.

She didn't trust that I was ready or that I already knew myself and what I wanted. I hope I trust my kids more than she thought of me.

Of course, she wanted all of us kids to wait until we were 35 to get married. SMH.

[catz]

There are some pretty clear statistics on people who marrying young being more likely to divorce.  I know that we have a statistical representation of people who married young here who are happy many years later.  There is some merit to getting your education, establishing a career, getting some adulting and independence skills, gaining maturity, understanding yourself and your priorities, etc IMO.  That doesn't mean there aren't young marriages that are happy long term or older marriages that lead to divorce.  

I have no problem if people think their young adults are marriage ready.  But I personally have always encouraged my kids that education/career building, etc was the next step after high school.  I think especially young women should have a means and path to support themselves and possibly kids.  I know plenty of aspiring SAHMs that had to go to work for one reason or another.  Or felt trapped in a bad situation because they didn't know how to get out.  

Edited August 16, 2021 by FuzzyCatz

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

There are some pretty clear statistics on people who marrying young being more likely to divorce.  I know that we have a statistical representation of people who married young here who are happy many years later.  There is some merit to getting your education, establishing a career, getting some adulting and independence skills, gaining maturity, understanding yourself and your priorities, etc IMO.  That doesn't mean there aren't young marriages that are happy long term or older marriages that lead to divorce.  

 

I agree.  What I disagree with is when the waiting to marry part is coupled with being romantically involved with a person.  If you don't think you are ready to marry then you probably are not ready to date.  JMO of course.

[regentrude]

31 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I agree.  What I disagree with is when the waiting to marry part is coupled with being romantically involved with a person.  If you don't think you are ready to marry then you probably are not ready to date.  JMO of course.

When do you consider a person is "ready to marry"?
When they can support a family? When they are in a stable location? Then most people pursuing post-graduate education shouldn't be dating until they are close to thirty?

For the people I know, "ready to marry" isn't an abstract concept - it's tied to a specific person. They may be ready to marry one specific person after they have spent sufficient time living with this person to know it is the right choice. (But then, they don't adhere to a religion that dangles sex as the reward for entering a legally binding union)

Edited August 16, 2021 by regentrude

[catz]

31 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I agree.  What I disagree with is when the waiting to marry part is coupled with being romantically involved with a person.  If you don't think you are ready to marry then you probably are not ready to date.  JMO of course.

Meh, well agree to disagree there.  I dated through high school until I married at 29.  I do regret wasting too much unhealthy emotional energy on some of those earliest relationships but really, not too many regrets about the whole thing and I don't really care if my kids want to date.  That said, my youngest is 17 and it really hasn't been a big focus or thing here to this point.  Each of my kids has done things in friend groups and had a couple passing crushes (or vice versa) and that's it.  

My response to them wanting to live with someone or wanting to marry would just depend on the circumstances of the young adult in front of me.  In general, I want to be my kid's cheerleaders and support them when they've made a decision that they seem solid on.  

[regentrude]

In my area, young marriages are common in religious circles where the girls are not pursuing an education after high school. Often they get pressure from the families to start having babies right away. (A young woman very close to me is from such a family, and it caused a big rift that she refused and wanted an education instead.)

Among my college students, very few are married. It is quite common to get married after college graduation. Our graduates usually have good jobs in hand.

[TexasProud]

43 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I agree.  What I disagree with is when the waiting to marry part is coupled with being romantically involved with a person.  If you don't think you are ready to marry then you probably are not ready to date.  JMO of course.

Yeah, I completely disagree with this. I was not ready to marry...until I was.  I just knew this was the person. My previous dates/boyfriends, the thought of marrying them gave me the willies. I was probably ready to marry for quite awhile before I did, but not until I met the right person, which I wouldn't know until I dated them.  If I had to decide whether I was ready to marry before I went on a date...yeah, just no. 

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, regentrude said:

In my area, young marriages are common in religious circles where the girls are not pursuing an education after high school. Often they get pressure from the families to start having babies right away. (A young woman very close to me is from such a family, and it caused a big rift that she refused and wanted an education instead.)

Among my college students, very few are married. It is quite common to get married after college graduation. Our graduates usually have good jobs in hand.

Yeah, I think this is the pattern I am seeing in this particular group.  My daughter has no intention of getting married until her career is ready.  Now she would like to date, if only Covid would make it possible.  GRRR.

[Sneezyone]

People routinely living together/marrying at 16-19? Where do you live? This isn't a thing for the people in my circle. I have family members who lived together in their 20s/college age before marrying and relatives who married in the late 60s/early 70s in their early 20s/late teens but no one in my family has married before 21 since 1980. I was practically a pariah for marrying DH at 23 (he was 18). My stepmom's family (generational poverty there) have routinely had kids and married before 20 but that's not something my maternal/paternal family has ever encouraged/condoned (and they are all quite conservative).

Edited August 16, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Scarlett]

32 minutes ago, regentrude said:

When do you consider a person is "ready to marry"?
When they can support a family? When they are in a stable location? Then most people pursuing post-graduate education shouldn't be dating until they are close to thirty?

For the people I know, "ready to marry" isn't an abstract concept - it's tied to a specific person. They may be ready to marry one specific person after they have spent sufficient time living with this person to know it is the right choice. (But then, they don't adhere to a religion that dangles sex as the reward for entering a legally binding union)

I guess everyone has their own 'ready' point.  So whatever that is. And specifically I was referring to people who are striving to remain chaste.

[regentrude]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I guess everyone has their own 'ready' point.  So whatever that is. And specifically I was referring to people who are striving to remain chaste.

But - even for those people - is there a point when they are just ready to marry  - irrespective of  having a specific partner in mind?
I can't imagine these two things being de-coupled. (Unless I guess they are so desperate for intimate relations or for a baby that the partner doesn't matter.)

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by regentrude

[Scarlett]

21 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah, I completely disagree with this. I was not ready to marry...until I was.  I just knew this was the person. My previous dates/boyfriends, the thought of marrying them gave me the willies. I was probably ready to marry for quite awhile before I did, but not until I met the right person, which I wouldn't know until I dated them.  If I had to decide whether I was ready to marry before I went on a date...yeah, just no. 

What?  I am not suggesting you make the decision you are going to marry a man before you go on a date with him. 

And I hope you didn't keep dating anyone who gave you the willies.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, regentrude said:

But - even for those people - is there a point when they are just ready to marry  - irrespective of  having a specific partner in mind?
I can't imagine these two things being de-coupled. (Unless I guess they are so desperate for intimate relations or for a baby that the partner doesn't matter.)

 

OMG.  I feel like I am speaking a foreign language. You think a person has to be desperate for sex or a baby to decide they want to get married IF they find a suitable partner?

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

 

And I hope you didn't keep dating anyone who gave you the willies.  

They didn't give me the willies, but the THOUGHT of being married gave me with willies. I had way too much to do to be married. I just wanted to have a good time. That's it.  And yes, I remained chaste if that matters. 

[TexasProud]

Just now, Scarlett said:

OMG.  I feel like I am speaking a foreign language. You think a person has to be desperate for sex or a baby to decide they want to get married IF they find a suitable partner?

No she makes perfect sense. I didn't want to be married...until I did.  To say...well, are you ready for marriage....  I would have said no. So i am not supposed to date?

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

They didn't give me the willies, but the THOUGHT of being married gave me with willies. I had way too much to do to be married. I just wanted to have a good time. That's it.  And yes, I remained chaste if that matters. 

So you definitely did not want to be married.  I see. 

[regentrude]

Just now, Scarlett said:

OMG.  I feel like I am speaking a foreign language. You think a person has to be desperate for sex or a baby to decide they want to get married IF they find a suitable partner?

I can't fathom deciding "I want to get married and thus I will start to date" because to me, the decision to want to get married did not come until many years of knowing the specific person I would like to get married to.
So no, the idea to go on a quest for a suitable person because I want to get married seems completely backwards to me. It's also not like my kids operate either.
YMMV.

[Scarlett]

Just now, TexasProud said:

No she makes perfect sense. I didn't want to be married...until I did.  To say...well, are you ready for marriage....  I would have said no. So i am not supposed to date?

You can do whatever you please.  LOL.  I just said, for ME it makes sense to not date if I am not wanting to get married.  I don't see dating as recreation. 

[TexasProud]

Just now, regentrude said:

I can't fathom deciding "I want to get married and thus I will start to date" because to me, the decision to want to get married did not come until many years of knowing the specific person I would like to get married to.
So no, the idea to go on a quest for a suitable person because I want to get married seems completely backwards to me. It's also not like my kids operate either.
YMMV.

EXACTLY THIS!!!

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

So you definitely did not want to be married.  I see. 

Sometimes, mostly I imagine, people aren't ready to to be married to any random person but to a *specific* person. In the absence of the desire to couple with that *specific* person, the concept of marriage is significantly less appealing. I could not imagine marrying anyone other than my DH when I did.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Sneezyone

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

 I don't see dating as recreation. 

Yeah, that is the difference. It is just fun to get to know different people. 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I can't fathom deciding "I want to get married and thus I will start to date" because to me, the decision to want to get married did not come until many years of knowing the specific person I would like to get married to.
So no, the idea to go on a quest for a suitable person because I want to get married seems completely backwards to me. It's also not like my kids operate either.
YMMV.

I would assume a lot of people know their mate for many years and know them very well before dating them with a view to marriage.  

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah, that is the difference. It is just fun to get to know different people. 

Dating is so much less pressured than it used to be too. It's mostly just hanging out. No need to pair off unless/until you want to explore something more in depth. Most of the teens I know aren't doing that.

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Sometimes, mostly I imagine, people aren't ready to to be married to any random person but to a *specific* person. In the absence of the desire to couple with that *specific* person, the concept of marriage is significantly less appealing. I could not imagine marrying anyone other than my DH when I did.

Well, same here.  I think at the point you decide to marry someone that is the way it should be.  

I am not suggesting 1) decide you want to get married 2) marrying some random person.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well, same here.  I think at the point you decide to marry someone that is the way it should be.  

I am not suggesting 1) decide you want to get married 2) marrying some random person.

It's just rarely so clean/simple as 1) decide you want to get married 2) marrying a *specific* person. Often, usually in my family, it's *MEET* a specific person, 2) get to know *specific* person, 3) decide to marry *specific* person b/c they make marriage so appealing. VS 1) decide you're ready to marry 2) start seeking *specific* person. The people I know who've chosen that trajectory are still single, 30-40 yo women.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I can't fathom deciding "I want to get married and thus I will start to date" because to me, the decision to want to get married did not come until many years of knowing the specific person I would like to get married to.
So no, the idea to go on a quest for a suitable person because I want to get married seems completely backwards to me. It's also not like my kids operate either.
YMMV.

I think you could decide you want to be married and then be open to dating if you meet someone you are interested in.  

[Scarlett]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

It's just rarely so clean/simple as 1) decide you want to get married 2) marrying a *specific* person. Often, usually in my family, it's *MEET* a specific person, get to know *specific* person, 3) decide to marry *specific* person b/c they make marriage so appealing.

Oh I agree it is rarely so clean/simple.  Most people let their emotions decide things for them....not saying you did and not saying everyone does.  But especially very young people date a person/become attached to that person decide to marry that person and the logic of why or why not this person might be a good match for you goes out the window.

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah, that is the difference. It is just fun to get to know different people. 

A person can get to know a lot of people without dating.  That seems strange to me....that in order to have fun and meet people you would need to date.  

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

I think you could decide you want to be married and then be open to dating if you meet someone you are interested in.  

I hear what you are saying, and I don't doubt there are more people who approach it like this.
It's just a very alien idea to me that I only encounter in older people who find themselves single in midlife. Not in the young people I know.

[TexasProud]

And yeah, Scarlett, I do get what you are saying. I have one regret. I started dating a boy my senior year of high school. He loved me dearly. I thought I was in love as well. He followed me to college, which was a bad idea. He couldn't handle the rigor. Flunked out. Stayed the next year to go to a community college near there to be near me.  One day, a dear friend talked to me and said, "You know, I just didn't see you marrying someone like that."  To be honest, we hadn't talked about marriage. But I thought, "Yeah, he's right. I could never marry him. I could date him forever, but there were qualities he had that I didn't want in a mate." So poor guy, I broke up with him the next day out of the blue. No fight. He tried for 6 months to get me back, always having a new plan for passing classes or actually following through on goals or whatever I wanted him to do. Nope. Stood firm. Actually, when I realized that, it was like a switch went off.  I had never thought about dating as preparation for marriage.  It was just fun.  I wish I had broken up with him before I graduated from high school, so he could have gone to the university of his choice. Though, to be honest, he probably would have flunked out there as well.  He had no self-discipline, which is a huge no, no for me in marriage. Love is fine, but it doesn't necessarily make a good marriage. There are certain qualities the person needs.

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Dating is so much less pressured than it used to be too. It's mostly just hanging out. No need to pair off unless/until you want to explore something more in depth. Most of the teens I know aren't doing that.

And that is considered dating?

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

And that is considered dating?

Yes.

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Most people let their emotions decide things for them....not saying you did and not saying everyone does.  But especially very young people date a person/become attached to that person decide to marry that person and the logic of why or why not this person might be a good match for you goes out the window.

LOL I totally let my emotions decide. I fell in love wit DH, and after 6 years felt very strongly that we were a good match who could have a harmonious marriage.

That's exactly why living together for several years before making the decision is so valuable: the first swooning excitement has passed, you have experienced the partner in daily life, seen their weaknesses, have a better idea how a marriage can work out. 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

And yeah, Scarlett, I do get what you are saying. I have one regret. I started dating a boy my senior year of high school. He loved me dearly. I thought I was in love as well. He followed me to college, which was a bad idea. He couldn't handle the rigor. Flunked out. Stayed the next year to go to a community college near there to be near me.  One day, a dear friend talked to me and said, "You know, I just didn't see you marrying someone like that."  To be honest, we hadn't talked about marriage. But I thought, "Yeah, he's right. I could never marry him. I could date him forever, but there were qualities he had that I didn't want in a mate." So poor guy, I broke up with him the next day out of the blue. No fight. He tried for 6 months to get me back, always having a new plan for passing classes or actually following through on goals or whatever I wanted him to do. Nope. Stood firm. Actually, when I realized that, it was like a switch went off.  I had never thought about dating as preparation for marriage.  It was just fun.  I wish I had broken up with him before I graduated from high school, so he could have gone to the university of his choice. Though, to be honest, he probably would have flunked out there as well.  He had no self-discipline, which is a huge no, no for me in marriage. Love is fine, but it doesn't necessarily make a good marriage. There are certain qualities the person needs.

This is one example of how things can go wrong when dating for fun.  My sister was the best at figuring out quickly if she wanted to continue dating someone or not.  One or two dates usually.  Then she would just tell them, 'We are not a good match.'  No hard feelings...but not a bunch of wasted time either.

[catz]

6 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

  I wish I had broken up with him before I graduated from high school, so he could have gone to the university of his choice. Though, to be honest, he probably would have flunked out there as well.  He had no self-discipline, which is a huge no, no for me in marriage. Love is fine, but it doesn't necessarily make a good marriage. There are certain qualities the person needs.

Well to be fair, those brain cells are fusing a lot longer than that especially in males.  No self discipline at 18/19 doesn't always mean no self discipline at 27 or 32.  Another fine reason to maybe think hard before marrying as a late teen. I actually think this is a valuable lesson to learn at this age as someone dating (ETA - what you consider important in a partner).  It was probably/hopefully beneficial for him too and hopefully he realized he had some work to do before he was ready to marry.  

Edited August 16, 2021 by FuzzyCatz

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

And that is considered dating?

Yes.

[Scarlett]

11 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Yes.

Well, then darn this entire thread is for nothing.  LOL......I edited to add LOL Because I am laughing now.

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Scarlett

[TexasProud]

3 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Well to be fair, those brain cells are fusing a lot longer than that especially in males.  No self discipline at 18/19 doesn't always mean no self discipline at 27 or 32.  Another fine reason to maybe think hard before marrying as a late teen. I actually think this is a valuable lesson to learn at this age as someone dating (ETA - what you consider important in a partner).  It was probably/hopefully beneficial for him too and hopefully he realized he had some work to do before he was ready to marry.  

I hope so. We dated for nearly 3 years. I have no clue what happened to him. 

But I disagree. My husband was born self-disciplined. So some can change, but most I have seen do not.

Edited August 16, 2021 by TexasProud

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

And yeah, Scarlett, I do get what you are saying. I have one regret. I started dating a boy my senior year of high school. He loved me dearly. I thought I was in love as well. He followed me to college, which was a bad idea. He couldn't handle the rigor. Flunked out. Stayed the next year to go to a community college near there to be near me.  One day, a dear friend talked to me and said, "You know, I just didn't see you marrying someone like that."  To be honest, we hadn't talked about marriage. But I thought, "Yeah, he's right. I could never marry him. I could date him forever, but there were qualities he had that I didn't want in a mate." So poor guy, I broke up with him the next day out of the blue. No fight. He tried for 6 months to get me back, always having a new plan for passing classes or actually following through on goals or whatever I wanted him to do. Nope. Stood firm. Actually, when I realized that, it was like a switch went off.  I had never thought about dating as preparation for marriage.  It was just fun.  I wish I had broken up with him before I graduated from high school, so he could have gone to the university of his choice. Though, to be honest, he probably would have flunked out there as well.  He had no self-discipline, which is a huge no, no for me in marriage. Love is fine, but it doesn't necessarily make a good marriage. There are certain qualities the person needs.

The same thing happened to me (BF didn't follow me but remained committed) but it wasn't gonna work. It was an important lesson for us both tho and I don't have any regrets about it. We wanted/needed different things and, at 17, I didn't see that. By 19, I did.

[regentrude]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

This is one example of how things can go wrong when dating for fun.  My sister was the best at figuring out quickly if she wanted to continue dating someone or not.  One or two dates usually.  Then she would just tell them, 'We are not a good match.'  No hard feelings...but not a bunch of wasted time either.

I do not consider the relationships I had before meeting DH a "waste of time". I got to spend a wonderful time with good young men, had new experiences, got introduced to thoughts/music/hobbies I would not have otherwise encountered, met their friends and families, learned a great deal about how to make relationships work. Those experiences enriched my life and helped me grow into the person I am. I think  fondly of my high school boyfriends and stayed friends with them long after I had met DH. I have met their lovely wives. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by regentrude

[Sneezyone]

10 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I hope so. We dated for nearly 3 years. I have no clue what happened to him. 

But I disagree. My husband was born self-disciplined. So some can change, but most I have seen do not.

Also, SAME. Not only was DH born that way, disciplined and ambitious, my DS has the same traits.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Sneezyone

[WildflowerMom]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well, then darn this entire thread is for nothing.  

Yeah, I don't know how in the world that is considered dating either!  🤷🏻‍♀️

[Drama Llama]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

And that is considered dating?

What do you consider dating? 

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, WildflowerMom said:

Yeah, I don't know how in the world that is considered dating either!  🤷🏻‍♀️

I went to a ton of formals in a group. I considered it a date.  In college, we did a ton of things in a group.  In fact, it did make it awkward for the rest of that sophomore year of college.  I had been good friends with my boyfriend's roommates since junior high. ( I moved right before my junior year of high school, so he didn't know them.) I spent the bulk of my time at that apartment with all the guys.  When I did break up, I rotated which guy I took to the formal.  We all had informal arrangements that if we didn't have a particular girl or guy we wanted to take, we would take each other. Heck, I went on a trip to Colorado with the group of guys, with my being the only girl. They were my brothers. One of the boys' moms asked if I was the only girl going and he replied, "Mom, she's not a girl. She's just one of the guys."  I had just started dating dh at the time I went on that trip.  But growing up, I didn't have girl friends, only guy friends. Made it hard after we all got married. We didn't stay in touch because if felt weird.  Honestly, I like guys so much better as friends and as co-workers.