Help me think through senior year science for music kid?

[kokotg]

Trying to figure out science is going to finally kill me one of these days. I HATE it, and it never works out the way it's supposed to. Anyway. My rising senior is planning to apply as a clarinet performance major next year, and I'm fairly certain that's not going to change. So my understanding is that, generally speaking, his audition is going to matter more than anything else, and if the clarinet prof wants him he'll probably get in as long as he's reasonably academically prepared. But some of the schools are pretty to very selective, so I want to make sure we avoid any academic red flags. Vanderbilt's the one I'm most worried about with this. So--science. We did biology at home his 9th grade year and he has a decent but not incredible subject test score he can submit for that (I can't remember what it was exactly--high 600s). He took chemistry at a homeschool co-op in 10th. He's doing AP Physics 1 this year and taking the AP exam in June. It's a self-paced course that he's pretty much doing on his own, so I don't have a great idea of how that's going to go, but he seems fairly confident about the practice problems he's been doing, so I would be very surprised if he didn't get at least a 3, and if I had to guess I'd bet on a 4. 

What next? He could do another physics DE (assuming, I think, that he gets at least a 3 on the AP exam), but does he need to? He'd rather not, and I was hoping to leave his schedule next year as flexible as possible to make time for college visits, auditions, and plenty of time getting ready for auditions. college lab science classes and a flexible schedule don't go together super well, IME. Should he just do something elective-y next year instead? (what?!) His science is already relatively light (it's the only place that is, particularly: he's doing calc AB this year and will take statistics DE in the fall. He'll graduate with 4-5 social science AP classes (and that's the area he's most interested in aside from music). He has 4 spanish credits already, including 2 DE), but I'm not sure if it really matters given that he's going to major in music. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by kokotg

[BusyMom5]

DE a science for non-majors?  Maybe Biology?  Geology?  Look at what he would need for his intended major.  Or just skip science this year to focus on things he is interested in.

If you think he needs another home-taught but easy science, maybe Environmental or Earth Science?  

[Farrar]

Seconding the above advice. If he's not applying to schools that are additionally super competitive academically, then he may not need it. He's clearly got the "big three" down. He's proven his chops by taking an AP science. It may be fine. But if you want to do more, I wouldn't push it. An easy DE science or an at home "fun" elective science seem perfect.

Maybe he could even do an at home science elective on the science of music using resources like this MOOC. I'm sure there's other stuff out there as well:
https://www.coursera.org/learn/music-as-biology

[lewelma]

In April of last year when ds's university closed down, my son was taking the Symphony Orchestra for credit. All the kids fled to the remote corners of the earth, and the professor still had to make the class do *something* so it could count for credit.  What he ended up doing is turning it into a physics class on wave form and music mixing. (Only at MIT would a music class turn into a physics class. haha)  Each member of the orchestra would record at home, and then they worked by zoom to figure out how to make a mix. It was fascinating because the noise pollution was enormous because each player had a different noisy background. And some of it augmented based on wave forms.  In addition, they had to figure out how to deal with the change in quality of the sound - the tuba player couldn't get his tuba home so he play kazoo. And the timpani guy played the pots and pans. One of the bassoonists had to whistle. So with all these changes, they had to augment and change these wave forms to make them more aligned to their original depth and loudness of sound. 

Point being, why not do a class on the physics of sound mixing.  🙂 

[kokotg]

6 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

DE a science for non-majors?  Maybe Biology?  Geology?  Look at what he would need for his intended major.  Or just skip science this year to focus on things he is interested in.

If you think he needs another home-taught but easy science, maybe Environmental or Earth Science?  

Thanks! He was supposed to take a DE geology class this year, and then...pandemic. I just looked, and it doesn't seem like it's being offered DE anymore--which is too bad because he'd probably enjoy it. 

5 hours ago, Farrar said:

Seconding the above advice. If he's not applying to schools that are additionally super competitive academically, then he may not need it. He's clearly got the "big three" down. He's proven his chops by taking an AP science. It may be fine. But if you want to do more, I wouldn't push it. An easy DE science or an at home "fun" elective science seem perfect.

Maybe he could even do an at home science elective on the science of music using resources like this MOOC. I'm sure there's other stuff out there as well:
https://www.coursera.org/learn/music-as-biology

As far as academically competitive schools go, he's probably applying to Vanderbilt, and then definitely to Oberlin and Bard--I'm fairly certain he'll be fine at Oberlin and Bard and that it's the clarinet part he needs to worry about...I'm not positive how true that would be at Vanderbilt (which might actually be the easiest of the three for clarinet). I'd love to find a music-science elective--thanks for the link to that one--I hadn't seen it! A local co-op will likely be offering a physics of music class, too, but it's only 6-8 weeks and it says it assumes no previous music or physics experience, so it might well be too light. 

4 hours ago, lewelma said:

In April of last year when ds's university closed down, my son was taking the Symphony Orchestra for credit. All the kids fled to the remote corners of the earth, and the professor still had to make the class do *something* so it could count for credit.  What he ended up doing is turning it into a physics class on wave form and music mixing. (Only at MIT would a music class turn into a physics class. haha)  Each member of the orchestra would record at home, and then they worked by zoom to figure out how to make a mix. It was fascinating because the noise pollution was enormous because each player had a different noisy background. And some of it augmented based on wave forms.  In addition, they had to figure out how to deal with the change in quality of the sound - the tuba player couldn't get his tuba home so he play kazoo. And the timpani guy played the pots and pans. One of the bassoonists had to whistle. So with all these changes, they had to augment and change these wave forms to make them more aligned to their original depth and loudness of sound. 

Point being, why not do a class on the physics of sound mixing.  🙂 

That sounds awesome! I need the professor to send me a syllabus, though (or just offer to teach him over zoom 😉 )--I'd love something like that for him, but I am absolutely not up for putting it together myself! This is why science always breaks down; between me and my husband we've got humanities and math covered, languages are easy to outsource, but science always causes trouble. Every year I think I finally have it figured out, and every year something messes it up.

[Farrar]

I think it's okay to combine experiences to get a total course - so some short term different things like a local class, a couple MOOC's, a book or two, maybe a hands on project all comes together to make a single credit that's interesting and has enough rigor to look good. There are physics of sound courses at colleges. Do a search for the syllabi and you can usually find them. Many of them will have a textbook or a reading list if nothing else so that might give him a starting point.

I agree that for Vandy, he should definitely have a fourth year science with some rigor to it - and it won't hurt for Oberlin or Bard. But a single DE course might be the best route if you just want to check that box and don't want to try to do something unique.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Farrar

[Roadrunner]

How about environmental science? It would be on a lighter side but still science. 
 

Do all the schools he is applying to require an audition? I have an aspiring music major but outside of conservatories, I am finding we need a very solid academic background since there isn’t really an audition at universities, just music supplement. 

[kokotg]

29 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

 

Do all the schools he is applying to require an audition? I have an aspiring music major but outside of conservatories, I am finding we need a very solid academic background since there isn’t really an audition at universities, just music supplement. 

Everywhere he's looking he'll need to audition into the music school in addition to being admitted to the college; they're all schools that have a conservatory style music school within a college or university. 

[EKS]

I'd let him pick whatever science seems interesting.  My son did astrobiology at the CC, for example.

[kokotg]

57 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I think it's okay to combine experiences to get a total course - so some short term different things like a local class, a couple MOOC's, a book or two, maybe a hands on project all comes together to make a single credit that's interesting and has enough rigor to look good. There are physics of sound courses at colleges. Do a search for the syllabi and you can usually find them. Many of them will have a textbook or a reading list if nothing else so that might give him a starting point.

I agree that for Vandy, he should definitely have a fourth year science with some rigor to it - and it won't hurt for Oberlin or Bard. But a single DE course might be the best route if you just want to check that box and don't want to try to do something unique.

It really is mostly just time/scheduling that's holding me back from having him do more physics DE. But I need to get him to look at the course schedule for fall; mostly I'm just trying to keep everything to T/Th fall semester so we have plenty of time for travel on long weekends (and then be done with DE by spring when auditions will happen)...it might well be possible to do that and still get the lab scheduled. Another option is to do AP physics 2 at home (we used the physics-prep.com course this year, and they have the same thing for physics 2). Which he wouldn't love, but it would definitely be doable. 

[lewelma]

Here is a book called 'Physics and Music'

https://www.amazon.com/Physics-Music-Science-Musical-Sound/dp/0486779343

There are bunch of others on Amazon. Are you sure you need a syllabus?  Couldn't you just have him read a book and get a mixing system to muck around to put into practice what he reads about.

[kokotg]

2 minutes ago, EKS said:

I'd let him pick whatever science seems interesting.  My son did astrobiology at the CC, for example.

Some state legislation passed recently that limited our DE options some (at least the ones that the state will pay for)...the U where he does DE really doesn't have many options that are both open to DE students and that he has the prereqs for. I was just looking today and not seeing much at all that looked possible/appealing. 

[kokotg]

5 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Here is a book called 'Physics and Music'

https://www.amazon.com/Physics-Music-Science-Musical-Sound/dp/0486779343

There are bunch of others on Amazon. Are you sure you need a syllabus?  Couldn't you just have him read a book and get a mixing system to muck around to put into practice what he reads about.

I could...I'm just worried it wouldn't actually get done with as busy as he'll be next year. But maybe we could be very disciplined! I had very grand plans for a history of baseball elective with my last senior, and...well. We don't know much more about the history of baseball now than we did when we first started planning the class. ETA: the book looks really cool, though. And says it has projects. Fun! I WANT to be the homeschooler who designs amazing, creative classes, but in reality I seem to the kind who's good at finding fun movies to watch while we do a fairly standard history class. Also I make everyone talk about poetry way more than most kids have to.

Edited May 23, 2021 by kokotg

[lewelma]

Just now, kokotg said:

I could...I'm just worried it wouldn't actually get done with as busy as he'll be next year. But maybe we could be very disciplined! I had very grand plans for a history of baseball elective with my last senior, and...well. We don't know much more about the history of baseball now than we did when we first started planning the class. 

I guess I just wonder why someone should take science.  Yes, for breadth, but you have that.  Why not have it be a focus that would actually aid him in his career path?  Music is wave forms. That is a fact.  And so much of what is music today has to do with recording it, not just playing it live.  When you record, you are dealing with the wave form. The more you know, the more empowered you would be to either do it yourself, or oversee someone you hire. But this book also has an entire section on the acoustics of architecture, so even if your focus was only live performances, it has content that would help you evaluate halls and understand why you hear what you hear. I would think that a musical teen could be empowered to take a science that applies to their future. Have him look at the table of contents.  There is a lot there. 

[EKS]

11 minutes ago, kokotg said:

Some state legislation passed recently that limited our DE options some (at least the ones that the state will pay for)...the U where he does DE really doesn't have many options that are both open to DE students and that he has the prereqs for. I was just looking today and not seeing much at all that looked possible/appealing. 

It doesn't have to be DE.  He could do something interesting at home as well.

[kokotg]

1 minute ago, EKS said:

It doesn't have to be DE.  He could do something interesting at home as well.

It's true. I just know my own track record with trying to teach or facilitate science at home, and it's....not great. It's really just the one thing I don't want to be in charge of, and somehow I keep ending up in charge of it anyway. 

[Frances]

38 minutes ago, kokotg said:

It's true. I just know my own track record with trying to teach or facilitate science at home, and it's....not great. It's really just the one thing I don't want to be in charge of, and somehow I keep ending up in charge of it anyway. 

Do you think he might take ownership of the class himself if you found a book or books that were of high interest to him, like the one lewelma suggested?  For a science elective, my son used the book below and online resources he found to design and build a beautiful set of speakers. Besides paying for components, I was not involved at all.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Performance-Loudspeakers-Martin-Colloms/dp/0470094303

Edited May 23, 2021 by Frances

[mathnerd]

Sound Design is a great area for a music major to work on for an elective - there are software like Alchemy, Ableton and Logic Pro that are used in an introductory class on Sound Design - if your son has any interest in such a course, there are plenty of offerings online (though I have no experience with them, my son takes a local live class).

[fourisenough]

How about taking an 8-week online DE course via ASU beginning mid-August in Astronomy?

https://ea.asu.edu/courses/introduction-to-solar-systems-astronomy-ast-111/

[MamaSprout]

A local to me uni has an online 6-week nonmajor science course that might check a box? Their DE course pricing for online was really reasonable the last time I checked. We usually don't do their online classes b/c they are double-paced, but for the most part I don't think this would super intense.

[kokotg]

You guys have gotten me excited about some kind of physics of music class (perhaps despite my better judgement). When I suggested it to DS, he said, "I don't really like science." So that was encouraging 😉 But I pointed out that the choice is likely between a physics of music class or a regular old physics class, and he got slightly more interested. I need to look around a little more, but at the moment I'm leaning toward having him take the local, likely pretty basic class that's probably going to be offered in the fall and supplementing with other stuff to make it a full credit. I would like for him to be able to do some in person classes and labs, since he missed out on all of that this year. 

He sounded fairly interested in the ASU astronomy class, too @fourisenough...so we'll keep that on the list, too. Do you happen to know if it's a synchronous class or not? I couldn't figure it out from the website.

[fourisenough]

7 hours ago, kokotg said:

He sounded fairly interested in the ASU astronomy class, too @fourisenough...so we'll keep that on the list, too. Do you happen to know if it's a synchronous class or not? I couldn't figure it out from the website.

No, I really don’t know. My DD is going to do their sociology class this August, so I’ll have more insight at that point. 

[Clear Creek]

I had this online interactive physics of sound textbook bookmarked for my oldest to use, but she went a different direction her senior year.