ktgrok Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Though this might be interesting reading for some today. (play nice, y'all!) https://theweek.com/articles/759441/4-competing-theories-theological-meaning-easter 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) Very interesting! I have been taught Christus Victor, and I’ve run into people who have been taught penal substitution. When those two theologies mix, there can be confusion. They are two very different views on the nature of God. This clears up some confusing conversations I’ve had in the past here on the boards. Edited April 4, 2021 by Garga 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Interesting. My problem with all of these “competing theories” is a bit like my problem with philosophy itself. None of them are complete. They’re just analogies and in different cultures different analogies will have greater appeal. But we see through the glass darkly and I think that’s on purpose. I’m not sure we’re capable of understanding. Thank you for posting Katie. Happy Easter! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 This is one of those areas where, growing up in evangelical churches, I always assumed that mainline protestants believed all the same stuff, they just sort of believed it less intensely somehow. It was a revelation as I got older to realize that it's not that other Christians don't understand about being born again or about penal substitution: they just think they're wrong. Anyway, I find it all fascinating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasProud Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 There are actually a few more theories. Spring 2020 I was taking soteriology and I had to write some short essays on the different ones. Then at the end of the class, we write what we believed about soteriology. That included Calvinism, Arminianism, etc. ( Predestination...or not) A wide variety of beliefs existed in the classroom. We had some fun discussions while we met in person. Harder to do when the class had to go virtual because of the pandemic. But yes, there is much more to soteriology ( doctrine of salvation) than I ever realized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Interesting, Katie, thanks! I grew up with the courtroom analogy of penal substitution, and it never satisfied me, somehow. I feel like Christus Victor rings most true to me, both in light of what I know about God and in light of Scripture. Happy Easter! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, MercyA said: Interesting, Katie, thanks! I grew up with the courtroom analogy of penal substitution, and it never satisfied me, somehow. I feel like Christus Victor rings most true to me, both in light of what I know about God and in light of Scripture. Happy Easter! Same! Today had a nice conversation with the kids about it and it was lovely. I do think there are bits of each (and others) that are likely right...I'm sure it isn't all or nothing and equally sure none are exactly right. Becuase what is that saying, if you can understand it, it isn't God? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) Yeah, I once stood up in the middle of a sermon and told the pastor that the theology of penal substitutionary atonement turned God into a capricious, sadistic b*stard unworthy of worship. I have strong feelings on the matter. Strongly in favor of Christus Victor (which is actually a much older theology). Edited April 4, 2021 by Terabith 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drama Llama Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Terabith said: Yeah, I once stood up in the middle of a sermon and told the pastor that the theology of penal substitutionary atonement turned God into a capricious, sadistic b*stard unworthy of worship. I have strong feelings on the matter. Strongly in favor of Christus Victor (which is actually a much older theology). I really wish I could have been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Just now, BaseballandHockey said: I really wish I could have been there. Well, his whole train of thought led from penal substitutionary atonement to the holiness of God being unable to stomach dealing with us wretched humans and then onto homophobia. It was pretty bad, honestly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drama Llama Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 I don’t doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyD Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Fascinating, thanks so much for posting this. I am Jewish and find Christian theology really opaque. These explanations are great. Happy Easter to all who are celebrating!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 19 minutes ago, JennyD said: Fascinating, thanks so much for posting this. I am Jewish and find Christian theology really opaque. These explanations are great. Happy Easter to all who are celebrating!!! Western Christianity has spent a LOT of time overthinking certain things, and ignoring other things. It's confusing to us, too, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa Louise Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Huh. I think moral exemplar is closest to what I got out of my post-Vatican II Catholic upbringing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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