Pressure Cookers for Poor People

[Pen]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

I grew up at 2500 feet and live at about 500. I’ve never noticed a difference between cooking at my house or my mom’s. My brother, who moved to Colorado, reports a big difference in cooking there. I just assumed you had to get out of the hills and into actual mountains before you had to learn to cook “at altitude.” 

 

I am doubtful that the altitude is the main cause for the troubles @Hunter is having.  I think at 2500 feet it may be a bit slower than at 100 feet all else being equal. But I suspect other factors are more significant. I suspect a poor stove is probably most responsible for big fuel consumption and poor cooking results. Plus not being used to hard water. 

Though description of tea leaves being turned to mush and breaking kettles could mean something beyond just normal hard mineral containing water. Highly corrosive water perhaps. 

It might be interesting for @Hunter to see if there’s any information about severe water problems known in the area

 

this is related to why trying to heat milk in a kettle can break it — perhaps the water there has some similar issue 

[Pen]

https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/84310/why-would-boiling-milk-in-an-electric-kettle-break-the-kettle/84325#84325

 

[Pen]

4 hours ago, Hunter said:

Water was a success.

I am going to go buy some potatoes for the next trial run. I like to cook potatoes in bulk the day I buy them. The roaches are too bad to store any food in the cabinets and I keep everything in the fridge. Potatoes starch changes in the fridge, so I don't like to store uncooked potatoes at home. I eat a fair amount of boiled potatoes dipped in ketchup.

Some good videos come up if you google "Hawkins pressure cooker." The Hawkins 1.5 liter seems to be popular with RVers and cruisers and some other interesting people. 

I have watched some baking videos from India, and I can see that an old stove top pressure cooker without gasket of the pressure thingy will always make a good stovetop oven. Also it is always still an insulated pot that will use less fuel, even without pressure. Stove top models are a good long-term investment.

I have been watching quite a few IP videos too, especially the baking and creative ones.

You really can do a lot with just a 2 burner stove and a cast-iron frying pan and pressure cooker.

 

 

I hope the potatoes come out good and cook much faster than usual!

 

[KungFuPanda]

29 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I hope the potatoes come out good and cook much faster than usual!

 

I’m also interested in the results. As I’m currently without a pressure cooker I’m living vicariously through @Hunter’s adventure. I’m kinda glad someone is experiencing the joy of cooking potatoes in five minutes, even if it’s not me right now. 😂

[Pen]

I like things I have made from following Urvashi Pitre  (even if I don’t have quite the right ingredients) - you can probably do them on stove top as well as IP.   A lot are Indian food recipes, but many are other things. 

Probably you can also find pressure cooker recipes that would suit Arizona foods (hot peppers and polenta and beans and so forth) ...

 

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I’m also interested in the results. As I’m currently without a pressure cooker I’m living vicariously through @Hunter’s adventure. I’m kinda glad someone is experiencing the joy of cooking potatoes in five minutes, even if it’s not me right now. 😂

 

If you cut them up in little pieces they can boil fast for making smashed potatoes. 😊

so glad this just came up—I think I may have potatoes to harvest

 

[Pen]

5 hours ago, Hunter said:

 

What are some of the main brands of stove-top cookers in the USA and overseas?

Imusa

Hawkins

Universal

Prestige

 

The one of my childhood was called Presto iirc.

that film with the steam spewing reminds me of why it used to scare me.

 

[Hunter]

I have a vicious migraine. I fell asleep after I bought the chicken, and when I got up, I just was not well enough to mess around.  I still don't have a vegetable peeler and scraping carrots with a cheap knife from the dollar store splatters orange liguid in my face and into the air. I just cooked almost 5 pounds of chicken pieces with 2 cups of water and focused on getting it into an edible state.

Fifteen minutes at pressure was enough to cook it as long as I let it sit and thermal cook for another hour. That is a huge fuel saving!

Now I have all the chicken and potatoes that I could want for a couple days and more in the freezer. Total cost for ingredients was less than $5.00 and I would guess I spent less than $1.00 on fuel for the stove and hot water to clean up the mess.

I don't have any real knives, but I want some winter squash or pumpkin. If I can just hack a hard-skinned gourd into a couple large pieces, the pressure cooker should be able to take care of things from there.

This rocks for buying food in bulk and getting the basic ingredients edible and/or ready to be assembled into a quick recipe. I don't need to worry about issues of acid or any of that, If I am not making recipes in the cooker. 

I will try beans later this week when I am well enough to walk to the store. Right now, I am so dizzy that I am falling over just walking in the apartment. With the beans, I am almost sure the primary issue is the water. If I just had to cook the beans in water, I might buy water for beans, but dried beans require BOTH soaking in water, and draining that water off and adding water AGAIN.

The extra half-mile of elevation makes research more difficult, because I am now combining issues that are easier to research and compensate independently. Especially because elevation affects boiling more than dry heat, and the water is the primary issue.

The stove costs money to run, but I have no trouble making it work well enough to cook food. The stove works; I just cannot afford to use anything that is not efficient. I can view how much electricity I use everyday online, and estimate the cost of doing things.

All these issues together creates a cluster-muck. So far, it looks like the pressure cooker is going to be exactly what I need. Thanks everyone! If I was successful at all, It would have been a lot harder to figure this all out on my own. And lonelier. Thanks!

[Hunter]

On 10/17/2020 at 11:52 AM, regentrude said:

How high is your elevation? Altitude adds a lot of cooking time and alters the texture of dishes.

The ladies with baking blogs that live in the gated communities with water filters talk about this. They say that once they get used to it, they can make things better, sometimes. I have noticed that the pancakes are fluffier.

[prairiewindmomma]

@Hunter, I don’t need to soak beans when I pressure cook them.

I use an instant pot, but my recipe is 2 c.   (1lb) dried black beans + 6 c. water, at pressure for 25 min. It will yield 6 cups cooked beans.

The leftover water is Aquafaba and can be used to thicken soups, etc. 

Now, whether that is worth 6 c of water is subjective—you are putting a lot of labor into hauling it. 

[Hunter]

On 10/17/2020 at 2:44 PM, Pen said:

IME split peas don’t sprout - peas (any such seeds) have to be whole.  

Let me know what you find on sprouts toxicity.

I think alfalfa sprouts have had Canav anine issues. 

If you sprout normal legume foods you would be cooking and then still cook them —not eat as raw sproyluts— (like garbanzo beans) I think it both reduces cooking time hugely and also increases nutrition , while the cooking helps kill microbes that might have started growing. 

Please do share what you learn on that. 

 

 

I have not researched this in awhile, and need to. Sprouting is so awesome; why does there need to be a problem with it? I find it challenging wherever I live to find a good source of alfalfa seeds.

[Hunter]

5 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

@Hunter, I don’t need to soak beans when I pressure cook them.

I use an instant pot, but my recipe is 2 c.   (1lb) dried black beans + 6 c. water, at pressure for 25 min. It will yield 6 cups cooked beans.

The leftover water is Aquafaba and can be used to thicken soups, etc. 

Now, whether that is worth 6 c of water is subjective—you are putting a lot of labor into hauling it. 

Adding water once, combined with a pressure cooker, might work. The affordable canned beans need to be carried a half mile too. Cans are heavy! But water twice plus extended cooking times was not worth it.

[Hunter]

On 10/17/2020 at 5:32 PM, KungFuPanda said:

Woot! Congratulations! It's tricky to find recipes because Instant Pot recipes have taken over the internet.  I either google "stovetop pressure cooker recipes" or I just go by the cook times listed after it comes up to pressure.  Having a pressure cooker means that your chicken bones can live a second life at bone broth!

Bone broth research and practice is a great winter activity. It is on the list now.

[ktgrok]

I highly advise looking into a solar cooker as well - would be free to bake and roast things in! An in the desert I'd think you get plenty of sun for it. I know here in florida we certainly can heat and bake things in them - even just silly ones made half hearted with tin foil and a shoebox. 

https://www.instructables.com/The-5-6-Solar-Oven/

Edited October 19, 2020 by ktgrok

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Hunter said:

I have a vicious migraine. I fell asleep after I bought the chicken, and when I got up, I just was not well enough to mess around.  I still don't have a vegetable peeler and scraping carrots with a cheap knife from the dollar store splatters orange liguid in my face and into the air.

 

I clean them well cut off ends and any bad looking spot, but leave skins

 

2 hours ago, Hunter said:

I just cooked almost 5 pounds of chicken pieces with 2 cups of water and focused on getting it into an edible state.

Fifteen minutes at pressure was enough to cook it as long as I let it sit and thermal cook for another hour. That is a huge fuel saving!

Yay!

2 hours ago, Hunter said:

Now I have all the chicken and potatoes that I could want for a couple days and more in the freezer. Total cost for ingredients was less than $5.00 and I would guess I spent less than $1.00 on fuel for the stove and hot water to clean up the mess.

I don't have any real knives, but I want some winter squash or pumpkin. If I can just hack a hard-skinned gourd into a couple large pieces, the pressure cooker should be able to take care of things from there.

 

Maybe you can get small ones that will fit inside whole? 

 

2 hours ago, Hunter said:

This rocks for buying food in bulk and getting the basic ingredients edible and/or ready to be assembled into a quick recipe. I don't need to worry about issues of acid or any of that, If I am not making recipes in the cooker. 

I will try beans later this week when I am well enough to walk to the store. Right now, I am so dizzy that I am falling over just walking in the apartment.

I hope you feel better soon.

 

2 hours ago, Hunter said:

 

With the beans, I am almost sure the primary issue is the water. If I just had to cook the beans in water, I might buy water for beans, but dried beans require BOTH soaking in water, and draining that water off and adding water AGAIN.

 

At least once in bought water as experiment might help determine that with good water and pressure the beans will cook right. 

And/or 

How about a 24 hour soak in tap water, and then drain off, maybe  a second 24 hour soak in tap water and drain, and then a final cook in bought water? 

What type beans are you using? 

 

 

Do you have a freezer, with room for a 1-2 quart or so bowl of water or jar of water? And do you have a bowl or jar?  (It might work in a former milk carton, but I have only done it in canning jars or food bowls — 

If so I can possibly tell you a small batch way I have used to reduce some minerals in very minerally water. 

Basically the water and minerally part of water have different freeze profiles so that the first part frozen may have much less mineral in the ice crystals lattice. So if you catch it before completely frozen and remove to frozen part or drain the remaining water out from under frozen top, the ice when then melted should be less full of minerals.     Conversely if you miss that point you may be able to melt off or chip off the last part of the ice to have frozen leaving the less mineral laden part to use.   You can probably harvest about 3/4 of starting water amount and can even do it twice to get rid of more minerals. It may be more work than carrying water from store however.  Works easiest IME with a flat area in freezer for a bowl so that ice forms as a large surface layer fairly easy to chip a hole and drain rest.  The remainder can be used for something where minerals aren’t a problem. 

 

Aside from cooking issues and taste if only problem with water is high magnesium and calcium it may be extra healthy. Like your own mineral water! 

 

 

There are some permaculture approaches to water harvest that might be of some help too. Maybe. 

 

 

 

[Hunter]

Efficiency is all about management of resources. Sometimes saving in one area leads to even greater expenditures in another.

I think spending $22.00 on large pressure cooker was worth it. I was slow to act, because ... that is $22.00 that I could have spent on fuel or already prepared food or something else entirely.

I have some extra wiggle room for time, but time is still limited.

Poverty is such a juggling act. And to survive it, one must NOT pinch every penny, or it will cost dollars to fix the mess.

Sometimes it is hard to know what to do.

[Pen]

54 minutes ago, Hunter said:

Efficiency is all about management of resources. Sometimes saving in one area leads to even greater expenditures in another.

I think spending $22.00 on large pressure cooker was worth it. I was slow to act, because ... that is $22.00 that I could have spent on fuel or already prepared food or something else entirely.

I have some extra wiggle room for time, but time is still limited.

Poverty is such a juggling act. And to survive it, one must NOT pinch every penny, or it will cost dollars to fix the mess.

Sometimes it is hard to know what to do.

It is hard to Know ahead of time if an expenditure will turn out being worth it or not.

It sounds like the pressure cooker will be very much worth it. Better food for sure. And possibly pay for itself eventually through fuel cost reduction.

 

I think carrot peels left on carrotsvin soups, stews, or baked add nutrients and save time

 

I would not recommend buying any stuff for the batch water system, but if u already have freezer, etc  - or even maybe someone could give you a clean 1/2 gallon milk carton to do a trial, it might be worth a test to see if you can do a Home demineralization of a limited amount of water.  For special uses.  

 

[Rosie_0801]

On 10/18/2020 at 8:59 AM, Pen said:

ETA: There’s a preview of a National Geographic of Gordon Ramsey learning about Vikings and Sami cooking that shows multiple uses of same stock. (And stock pot going along with more and more added has been a tradition in many northern cultures—)

My brother has been using the same stock for everything he's cooked for weeks now and I saw a video the other week about a restaurant in China that's been using the same stock for 50 YEARS.

[Rosie_0801]

5 hours ago, Hunter said:

I have not researched this in awhile, and need to. Sprouting is so awesome; why does there need to be a problem with it? I find it challenging wherever I live to find a good source of alfalfa seeds.

I don't know where to get alfalfa, but an Indian grocer would have mung beans and fenugreek.

[Pen]

You might want to try organic raw chia seeds — you can get a jar from Amazon .  

Or a big bag of raw organic sunflower seeds.  (Someone told me shelled don’t sprout, but IME they do!) 

alfalfa is tasty but what has had most issues afaik

I’d tend to just go for something like this:

BetterBody Foods Organic Chia Seeds with Omega-3, Non-GMO (2 Pound) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MPQ5ZOS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_xgHJFb0GJT230

2 pounds of little seeds for under $7  - can make lots of sprouts  - or can be sprinkled on your soups salads etc

 

[Pen]

Chia can also make gel water which may be better than regular water

 

[prairiewindmomma]

31 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I don't know where to get alfalfa, but an Indian grocer would have mung beans and fenugreek.

Oh, bless you Rosie....THAT's why I bought mung beans.  I had a whole jar of them deep in my pantry and had forgotten why I had gotten them. Thanks for that side comment.

[Rosie_0801]

8 minutes ago, Pen said:

Or a big bag of raw organic sunflower seeds.  (Someone told me shelled don’t sprout, but IME they do!)

Sunflower seeds are cheaper from a stockfeed shop.

[KungFuPanda]

If you can swing it, put a piece of salt pork or fatback in your freezer. One piece can flavor 2-3 lbs of beans and it makes a huge difference in flavor. I grew up eating bean soup and cornbread and it’s still a comfort food for me. It’s also cheap, filling, and satisfying. 
 

Chasing down Hillbilly Housewife online might be worth the effort. Years ago she has some seriously cheap tips and survival menus. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by KungFuPanda

[Pen]

https://preparednessmama.com/growing-and-using-chia-sprouts/

they use less water to sprout than most sprouts which could also help

[ashfern]

You should be able to use any of the InstantPot specific recipes for your stovetop cooker as well.

https://www.pressurecookingtoday.com/

https://www.hippressurecooking.com/

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Sunflower seeds are cheaper from a stockfeed shop.

 

If  @Hunter has access to one with untreated seeds that will sprout, that’s probably true.

if there’s no nearby stock feed store, it might not be much $ savings once factoring in travel expense or walk distance or shipping costs

A lot of seed here intended for animals is treated not to sprout. 

 

 Also Here, sunflower seeds intended for feed usually are in shells, which IME slows sprouting and can mean having extra labor to pick the shells out of the finished sprouts.  Also shells have to be figured in the price per pound.  (Might be $1/pound for animals in shells, which maybe would be like $3 per pound if unshelled, but if it does not sprout it would be a waste, and at $11 for two pounds the ease of already sprouted, clean for human consumption seems considerable to me.) 

I also tend to be wary of seed intended for animal consumption...  and here some of it is treated in various ways that might not be healthy unless certified organic 

 

$ 10.99 for 2 pounds (1kg ~ 2.2 pounds) sunflower seeds as part of an order with free shipping can probably arrive and probably be turned into quite a lot of 5 cm or so nutritious sprouts .   (I have had sprout success with this company’s seeds.) 

 

Terrasoul Superfoods Organic Hulled Sunflower Seeds, 2 Pounds https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SRMA4U4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_fyIJFbZ2N3NQX

Edited October 19, 2020 by Pen

[ktgrok]

Ooh...I wonder if you could demineralize the water with evaporation and collection - make your own solar desalinization set up?

[Spy Car]

@Hunter Posts touched on it earlier, but if you are looking to be frugal then cooking (pressure cooking) the bones after stripping the cooked meat would make for nice stock (assuming the water is OK).

Is there any inexpensive way to filter the water?

Bill

 

[itsheresomewhere]

For the winter type of squash-  I don’t cut mine up if they fit.  Just pressure cook them for a few minutes.  The outside just falls off and then just scoop the seeds. If you time it right, they can be cut with a cheap knife just fine.  If you do it a bit longer, then they can be mashed.  

[Pen]

Also squash / pumpkin seed is very nutritious. 

Might want to add it to chicken bones to cook down till soft. 

A country I spent time in turned seeds into a sort of breakfast cereal (cooked - kinda like oat meal  but not) . 

[Hunter]

Only expensive water filters remove minerals. The portable ones are still about $200.00 and the companies that sell them at that price don't stay in business to replace the filters, even if the filter machinery lasts that long. No one that rents here installs filters. Filters are for homeowners. Homes are cheap in prices and quality and lot so of people own homes and have full-size filters. But renters and the poor are mucked.

For heathy active people that are sweating, the minerals are critical to us not dying with entire weeks at a time of summer temperatures over 110 every day. Unsweetened Gatorade is good stuff to replace sweat. It just isn't so nice when it needs to chemically react with things like soap, beans, and tea leaves.

Thanks for all the tips. I got two books from the library today, but have not read them yet.

[Pen]

49 minutes ago, Hunter said:

Only expensive water filters remove minerals. The portable ones are still about $200.00 and the companies that sell them at that price don't stay in business to replace the filters, even if the filter machinery lasts that long. No one that rents here installs filters. Filters are for homeowners. Homes are cheap in prices and quality and lot so of people own homes and have full-size filters. But renters and the poor are mucked.

For heathy active people that are sweating, the minerals are critical to us not dying with entire weeks at a time of summer temperatures over 110 every day. Unsweetened Gatorade is good stuff to replace sweat. It just isn't so nice when it needs to chemically react with things like soap, beans, and tea leaves.

Thanks for all the tips. I got two books from the library today, but have not read them yet.

 

Thinking outside the commercial box:

 

1)

youtube video showing freezing to purify water as I tried to describe in words in a post above   IME this does work and is not $ 200 assuming your apartment has a working freezer. 

https://youtu.be/fMFOpIXywOA

 

———

2)

diy solar distiller

 

https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/home/how-to-make-a-solar-still-ze0z1209zsch

 

 

———

3)

Air water harvesting: 

Harvesting Water From Thin Air

 

Today nearly two people in ten have no source of safe drinking water according to the U.N. Millions of people, most of them children, die from diseases associated with inadequate water supply, sanitation, and hygiene each year. But in some desert areas, where there is very little rain, fog and dew are abundant sources of humidity that are being harvested to produce fresh water.

Fog or dew collection is an ancient practice. Archaeologists have found evidence in Israel of low circular walls that were built around plants and vines to collect moisture from condensation. In South America’s Atacama Desert and in Egypt, piles of stones were arranged so that condensation could trickle down the inside walls where it was collected and then stored

 

—————-

4) 

https://youtu.be/-AhtVcnktOM

Simple distilled water on stove - this may take too much fuel to be cost effective 

———-

 

 

 

[wathe]

I wonder if you could be even more fuel efficient by combining your pressure cooker with haybox cooking techniques - doesn't have to be actual hay, I have read about hayboxes made from coolers and old blankets, garbage cans and sleeping bags, basket and old clothes etc..  Even wrapping the pot in towels might work.

[Hunter]

Opening the fridge takes energy. Fuel takes money. I feel like I get stuck on a merry go round when I try and cut expenses.

The problem is the neglect of those in power. There is injustice here. There should be free government supplied water. This is so RIDICULOUS. Just the amount of garbage this produces is insane. I walk to get the water at the mill not just to save money, but to reduce trash and fuel spent on shipping. But at the very least, I should have some sort of government issued ID that I could swipe and get the water for free, or better yet, can we have open taps every couple streets with free water? Why? Why are we doing this? Third world countries have community water in the village centers. Ancient people had community wells. This is so mucked up!

So I just stop and pull back and hit the biggest issues that are easiest to fix and most immediate. This is not permanent. This is my Covid-bunker. I am meant to be here to see and experience this personally. It is going somewhere; I don't know where. 

[Hunter]

14 minutes ago, wathe said:

I wonder if you could be even more fuel efficient by combining your pressure cooker with haybox cooking techniques - doesn't have to be actual hay, I have read about hayboxes made from coolers and old blankets, garbage cans and sleeping bags, basket and old clothes etc..  Even wrapping the pot in towels might work.

 

I wish I could find one of the articles I saw years ago about cruisers wrapping pressure cookers in blankets for hours after getting them to pressure.

[Pen]

26 minutes ago, Hunter said:

Opening the fridge takes energy. Fuel takes money. I feel like I get stuck on a merry go round when I try and cut expenses.

The problem is the neglect of those in power. There is injustice here. There should be free government supplied water. This is so RIDICULOUS. Just the amount of garbage this produces is insane. I walk to get the water at the mill not just to save money, but to reduce trash and fuel spent on shipping. But at the very least, I should have some sort of government issued ID that I could swipe and get the water for free, or better yet, can we have open taps every couple streets with free water? Why? Why are we doing this? Third world countries have community water in the village centers. Ancient people had community wells. This is so mucked up!

So I just stop and pull back and hit the biggest issues that are easiest to fix and most immediate. This is not permanent. This is my Covid-bunker. I am meant to be here to see and experience this personally. It is going somewhere; I don't know where. 

 

 

What / where does the water you do have actually come from?

 

I doubt that many if any ancient desert dwellers at 2500 feet elevation have had  community water wells .

 

  I think location of water was a primary determiner of where people could and did live successfully. So a settlement might grow up around an oasis with potable water. 

Think about towns named Springfield   — a Spring was a big deal!

or Riverdale or Brookline  will be by a river or brook with fresh water so will be a Cambridge, Oxford, and  Eton, Blackwell, Waterford  will all probably have some water. 

and similar in other languages.  

 

Or in some very arid regions people may have learned to get water needs met in a primitive way from plants and dew on plants.

 

This is a several hundred dollar approach for community water that perhaps you could work with others in your area to achieve if you were to be staying for awhile:

 

https://africageographic.com/stories/warka-water-capturing-dew-in-the-desert/

 

 

[Pen]

Water in Kalahari

https://youtu.be/BgX3ZTr2_mM

but uSA Arizona desert is probably even more arid. Probably can’t grow the type plants the Kalahari can

[regentrude]

10 hours ago, Hunter said:

Only expensive water filters remove minerals. The portable ones are still about $200.00 .

Which minerals? I do not believe the bolded is true. You can filter out many harmful minerals with a portable pitcher type filter (Pur or Brita) which are much less expensive. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by regentrude

[regentrude]

8 hours ago, Hunter said:

But at the very least, I should have some sort of government issued ID that I could swipe and get the water for free, or better yet, can we have open taps every couple streets with free water? Why? Why are we doing this?

Because there is no such thing as "free". There may be "free at point of service", but the well has to be dug, the water purified, the pipes maintained - either by communal labor, or by an entity that receives compensation for doing so, either from the individual household (as is the case in most of the country where we pay a utility company to do it for us), or, in your model, by the community through taxes ("the government" does not have money by itself. "Government money" =taxes paid by the citizens). "Free" does not exist. It also does not exist elsewhere in the world and never has.

Now I am totally with you that every human should have access to clean water. That should be a basic human right. But it cannot possibly be "free".

Edited October 20, 2020 by regentrude

[Pen]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

Which minerals? I do not believe the bolded is true. You can filter out many harmful minerals with a portable pitcher type filter (Pur or Brita) which are much less expensive. 

 

I don’t think they will remove dissolved solids like magnesium and calcium that @Hunter says is a problem for cooking in her water. 

However, I am doubtful that that’s the significant problem keeping her beans from cooking well as our water has extremely high tds without significantly affecting cooking ability. 

It does affect taste of plain water, coffee, tea etc.    

 

[Pen]

10 hours ago, Hunter said:

Opening the fridge takes energy. Fuel takes money. I feel like I get stuck on a merry go round when I try and cut expenses.

The problem is the neglect of those in power. There is injustice here. There should be free government supplied water. This is so RIDICULOUS. Just the amount of garbage this produces is insane. I walk to get the water at the mill not just to save money, but to reduce trash and fuel spent on shipping. But at the very least, I should have some sort of government issued ID that I could swipe and get the water for free, or better yet, can we have open taps every couple streets with free water?

 

What @regentrude said. Nothing is free.

 

This is a way to get water in deserts that can be done by community members working together pooling labor and resources.  A lot people in 3rd world countries work on projects to achieve their water needs.

It sounds like you see the need and have passion about it—I recommend you consider starting a project like this for your community.  It could be life transforming for a lot of people:

 

This is a several hundred dollar approach for community water that perhaps you could work with others in your area to achieve if you were to be staying for awhile:

 

https://africageographic.com/stories/warka-water-capturing-dew-in-the-desert/

 

[Pen]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

Because there is no such thing as "free". There may be "free at point of service", but the well has to be dug, the water purified, the pipes maintained - either by communal labor, or by an entity that receives compensation for doing so, either from the individual household (as is the case in most of the country where we pay a utility company to do it for us), or, in your model, by the community through taxes ("the government" does not have money by itself. "Government money" =taxes paid by the citizens). "Free" does not exist. It also does not exist elsewhere in the world and never has.

Now I am totally with you that every human should have access to clean water. That should be a basic human right. But it cannot possibly be "free".

 

This.

 

 

A lot of USA geographically does not even have water from utility companies as an option. 

Instead people usually use other methods like springs, wells, or roof catchment and cisterns. 

Deserts are especially tricky and usually through human history they don’t have large populations because there is not enough water to sustain many human lives.   And especially not in a modern high water consumption lifestyle way. 

 

 

 

 

[Hunter]

Reducing calcium and magnesium levels requires reverse osmosis filtering. You cannot soften ocean water or use a cheap Brita filter, and those methods don't work on Gatorade, or my water either.

Gatorade is "safe, and so is Diet Coke, but they are not safe as the only beverage for humans.

This is not the 1800s or even the 1930s anymore. There is no excuse for the widening DISPARITY in access to things listed in the Declaration of Human rights. The widespread efforts to narrow the disparity and care for the most vulnerable that began in the 1940s ushered in prosperity that everyone enjoyed. I strongly doubt that increased access to water has never weakened a society, the working poor, the middle class, or more than a handful of the rich.

More and more things that sustained the poor and acted as band-aids are being taken away. Mail forwarding is not entirely free after 2 months, and in the middle of this pandemic, if you want full forwarding, you have to pay for it. The people who need forwarding the most are the ones least able to pay for it.

I don't have babies and am still young enough to carry water a half mile, and I at least have running Gatorade. Today, I was able to take a shower, wash my dishes, and wash some clothes in a bucket and hang them to dry.

And as for my mail: things are such a mess already with no proper ID and without full documentation of residency: whatever.

Rationing water and discontinuing the Post Office is not going to make this country stronger. If that is what people want to do, I am resigned to watching this all implode.

When I was barely 21 years old, I sat on my hospital bed looking at my surviving children, a toddler and infant, and had just been told that it was impossible that I would live long enough to get them into Kindergarten. I was not terrified to die; I was terrified that no one outside "the family" would be keeping tabs on these children and that they would be alone. My only goal was to somehow do the impossible and get them into school where people would see them. I got so much more than that. I live every day still in the context of that terror. I am so grateful.

But the things I see are unnecessary and help no one. I understand rape, but I don't understand this. The rapist gets what he wants. No one gets what they want from this. In the long-run, taxpayers do not pay higher taxes because people have water and all the other stuff in the Declaration of Human Rights. If we want 1950's prosperity, maybe we need to look at how people made that happen.

I have been on borrowed time for so long and through some miracle got two of my children to adulthood alive. I need nothing more. But ... other resourceless moms: I worry about them.

But whatever. If this is the country people want, they are about to get it. If some of us go back to the 1930's and the 1800's we all go back together. Sounds fun to me. Bring it on.

[Hunter]

On 10/20/2020 at 7:41 AM, Pen said:

 

What @regentrude said. Nothing is free.

 

This is a way to get water in deserts that can be done by community members working together pooling labor and resources.  A lot people in 3rd world countries work on projects to achieve their water needs.

It sounds like you see the need and have passion about it—I recommend you consider starting a project like this for your community.  It could be life transforming for a lot of people:

 

This is a several hundred dollar approach for community water that perhaps you could work with others in your area to achieve if you were to be staying for awhile:

 

https://africageographic.com/stories/warka-water-capturing-dew-in-the-desert/

 

Thank you for this. And there is a time and place for this type of thing. But not in a city where water is running down the streets from unmaintained underground sprinklers that leak. They leak, because for SOME people, it is cheaper to waste the water, than fix the sprinkler. These people use underground sprinklers, because it is the trend of those that can afford it to live in make-pretend gated communities that MANDATE that residents maintain imported plants that cannot survive with out underground sprinklers.

 

[Hunter]

Native Americans seldom chose to live in places without water. Some were banished to these barren places after their land was stolen, and some places are now barren because their rivers were diverted elsewhere.

[Pen]

8 hours ago, Hunter said:

Reducing calcium and magnesium levels requires reverse osmosis filtering. You cannot soften ocean water

 

No. 

 

This is incorrect.

 

Distillation - which could be solar, and I gave you a link to a diy system in a post above - does remove calcium and magnesium.

 

The freezing system does remove salt. 

 

 

[Pen]

8 hours ago, Hunter said:

Native Americans seldom chose to live in places without water. Some were banished to these barren places after their land was stolen, and some places are now barren because their rivers were diverted elsewhere.

 

That is certainly true in some cases, though I do not think it is your situation. Is it?

Are you in a barren spot where water was diverted away? Or are you in an area that had water diverted to your area? Or neither? 

 

There are people who do try to help with problems like water in barren areas.  

It sounds like you have a real passion for that and should get involved in that effort!

 

 

[Pen]

8 hours ago, Hunter said:

Thank you for this. And there is a time and place for this type of thing. But not in a city where water is running down the streets from unmaintained underground sprinklers that leak. They leak, because for SOME people, it is cheaper to waste the water, than fix the sprinkler. These people use underground sprinklers, because it is the trend of those that can afford it to live in make-pretend gated communities that MANDATE that residents maintain imported plants that cannot survive with out underground sprinklers.

 

 

That is a problem where I live also.

It looks plenty of wet, but people use water for “lawns” and such which isn’t actually feasible.  It is really an idea that comes from England (nobility probably) where it rained significantly year round enough to keep grass growing.  

Trying to maintain a particular plants and lawn look that doesn’t fit the ecology depletes underground aquifers and leaves us in draught conditions even with in an area that is known for its rain (Western Pacific Northwest ). 

 

I wonder what can be done about leaking sprinklers and water running down the streets? 

 

I suspect that there actually is some specific  “entity” such as a water and electric board to call about that in your area. 

If not, maybe letters to the editor, contacting local organizations, city or county boards of governance could be helpful.

 

I would probably start with what would tend to oversee that in other places I have lived namely regional water and soil conservation district (some googled links below).  If you genuinely try these and contact your County Commissioners and City Council as well as your municipal Utilities District if you are in a Utilities district area, and they are all not right “entities “ and can not any of them direct you to what is, let me know and I will try to think of something else. 

 

. 

 

Web results

Arizona Association Of Conservation Districts: Home

Arizona's Conservation Districts – made up of farmers, ranchers, and volunteers – conserve our water, soil, wildlife habitats, open spaces, and other limited natural resources.

 

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Arizona's Conservation Districts - Arizona Association Of Conservation Districts

 

 

 

Home | NRCS Arizona - USDA

Highlights. Local Working Groups · Field Office Technical Guide (EFOTG) 2 · Arizona Soil Surveys · Plants Database · Resources for Teachers and Students ...

 

[Pen]

 

 

9 hours ago, Hunter said:

More and more things that sustained the poor and acted as band-aids are being taken away. Mail forwarding is not entirely free after 2 months, and in the middle of this pandemic, if you want full forwarding, you have to pay for it. The people who need forwarding the most are the ones least able to pay for it.

 

I do not know all the details about mail forwarding.

I gather that the combination of forwarding and returning mail that can’t be forwarded or delivered back to sender costs the USPS over a billion dollars per year and that the cost for this is mostly covered by First Class Mail prices — so that all of us who buy stamps etc are helping cover the costs of forwarding.

In Canada, btw, I have heard that mail forwarding is entirely paid for by the person who needs the service, not by the General mail costs.  Idk if that is true. 

 

The USPS system is similar to a tax in distribution of the costs of forwarding mail over the whole population that uses the mail. 

 

I think the time is supposed to give most people a chance to change their addresses. Is this wrong?

“12 months

 

The majority of your mail will be forwarded for 12 months, including First Class Mail, Priority Mail, and First-Class Package services. This gives you a year to update your address with your friends, family, bank, and other businesses.Mar 2, 2016

 

USPS Mail Forwarding: What You Need to Know - Updater “