Designers, people who think outside the box - updated with pics and dimensions

[Liz CA]

Scroll down for pics in 10th post.

Need input on window / screen / shutter options for what we call the "patio room." We have a room with pony walls and cruddy old windows above which was probably an open patio in its former life.

We'd like to fix it up nicely. This is non-conditioned space and will remain so. We will sit there in the evening (once it's cool enough), have meals, play games, etc. I need specific thoughts on:

Solid windows

Jalousie windows

No glass, only screens

Screens with shutters / plantation style only (like some Hawaiian styles).

Anything else you can think about. 

The rest is beams on the ceiling and tongue in groove slats, fully roofed on outside. The walls (above the pony wall) are in dh's words: "slapped together plywood" which he will correct. The plan at the moment is to paint off white / cream. 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Liz CA

[Pen]

Can you do screens for summer and windows that open upwards and outwards, either with a modern crank or just hinges and something to keep them up to give a rain awning when needed?   And then windows can close in winter.

[Melissa in Australia]

Louver windows 

[wintermom]

I wish I had a space like that!  Before making any suggestions there is so much information that's obvious to you but completely unknown to us. Things like: is there a spectacular view outside you want to enjoy, insects, shade/direct sunlight coming into the room, seasonal temperatures, day/night temp differences, humidity, wind flow/breezes, privacy from neighbours, noise from roads/neighbours, etc.

Also, do you expect to use this space year-round or just particular seasons.

Edited June 20, 2020 by wintermom

[Liz CA]

54 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I wish I had a space like that!  Before making any suggestions there is so much information that's obvious to you but completely unknown to us. Things like: is there a spectacular view outside you want to enjoy, insects, shade/direct sunlight coming into the room, seasonal temperatures, day/night temp differences, humidity, wind flow/breezes, privacy from neighbours, noise from roads/neighbours, etc.

Also, do you expect to use this space year-round or just particular seasons.

 

Thanks for asking. I couldn't picture what additional info would be helpful.

1. The view is our backyard - nice but perhaps not spectacular

2. It is facing west, however, there is a large Elm tree at the edge of the property that shades this room after 4-430pm from October to May and after 6-630pm in midsummer. 

3. Summer highs are F95+ during daytime. Night time can be anywhere from F65-75. Humidity is very low here. There is an occasional breeze from the river delta but not every day.

4. It is completely private from neighbors.  No noise issues.

[lmrich]

I love screen porches so I vote for screening it. When we had one, I was always on the porch. I especially love sitting on the screen porch when a storm was coming. 

Can you get electricity out there? If so, put in a ceiling fan and add floor fans to keep the air moving. In the winter, I plugged in an electric blanket to keep my cozy. Best place to read a book in the fall evenings. 

Man, I miss my screen porch!

[wintermom]

39 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

Thanks for asking. I couldn't picture what additional info would be helpful.

1. The view is our backyard - nice but perhaps not spectacular

2. It is facing west, however, there is a large Elm tree at the edge of the property that shades this room after 4-430pm from October to May and after 6-630pm in midsummer. 

3. Summer highs are F95+ during daytime. Night time can be anywhere from F65-75. Humidity is very low here. There is an occasional breeze from the river delta but not every day.

4. It is completely private from neighbors.  No noise issues.

This is helpful. A photo would also be great. What are the dimensions of the space? How high up do the pony walls go? 

With a private, shaded, low-humidity space, I'd want to have a really bright space with lots of natural light and a feeling of being outdoors. I'd consider taking down the walls and putting floor to ceiling screens. Put potted plants inside and a herbaceous border along the outside of the patio, depending on how high off the ground it is. Could you use a floor fan to help keep the space cool so you can extend the season it's comfortable to use? You can add lanterns and lighting to use the space in the cool evenings. 

[Moonhawk]

We have removable windows for our screened porch. The "windows" are just a thick plastic thing put into a wood frame cut to the size to insert into the screen part, and then there are little pieces of wood to hold it in from falling out. Ours are not not nicely finished or high-tech, but it could be 🙂 

Let me know if it makes sense or if a photo would help

[Liz CA]

Okay here are very large pics:

Dh trophy and dartboard wall. This wall has to be preserved. It is the north side.

 

This is the West facing wall into the backyard.

 

West and South corner.

 

Right now a catch all area but hopefully soon to be a little cozy outdoor seating area.

Dimensions are 11 x 17 feet.

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Liz CA

[matrips]

Not screen only- too much dust, rain, bugs come in.  We Had a screen only porch and it just always seemed dirty and unwelcoming since it was a ground level screened patio.  

I would open up the west wall and have it mostly French doors (with a non moving glass panel on each side of the two French doors).  or sliders, with screens.  So 12’ of that wall.  You could do internal blinds if you have sun that streams in and you might want to block.

[Melissa in Australia]

Ohh French doors would look lovely and they could be fully opened in hot weather for a breeze

[Liz CA]

4 minutes ago, matrips said:

Not screen only- too much dust, rain, bugs come in.  We Had a screen only porch and it just always seemed dirty and unwelcoming since it was a ground level screened patio.  

I would open up the west wall and have it mostly French doors (with a non moving glass panel on each side of the two French doors).  or sliders, with screens.  So 12’ of that wall.  You could do internal blinds if you have sun that streams in and you might want to block.

 

1 minute ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Ohh French doors would look lovely and they could be fully opened in hot weather for a breeze

 

We are thinking French Door as well. The West-South Corner will have a patio table with chairs. (That's the pic with the dog bed on the floor). There is electricity and dh just installed a light fixture today.

[Liz CA]

6 minutes ago, matrips said:

Not screen only- too much dust, rain, bugs come in.  We Had a screen only porch and it just always seemed dirty and unwelcoming since it was a ground level screened patio.  

I would open up the west wall and have it mostly French doors (with a non moving glass panel on each side of the two French doors).  or sliders, with screens.  So 12’ of that wall.  You could do internal blinds if you have sun that streams in and you might want to block.

 

This is my thought as well - but screens with jalousie windows (no glass) might reduce dust a little. It is completely ground floor as you can see and dirt does get tracked in. The floor is painted concrete and I can sweep it easily.

[PeterPan]

9 hours ago, Liz CA said:

It is completely ground floor as you can see and dirt does get tracked in.

The trick to stopping dirt from coming in is a series of rugs. My dh works construction, so we always have DIRT with capital D, lol. Does this space function as the entry to the house (like coming from the car after you grocery shop) or is it a back porch that you only go through if you want to sit there or go enjoy the back yard?  You could also put in a small tray or shoe rack and have people change shoes there.

I slept on a porch like this one summer, so I'm with you on how cozy and pleasant it can be. How much are you wanting to spend? And are you able to do the work yourself or are you hiring it out? You could maybe have a couple visions, depending on your budget. What you might do is find a handyman, someone who would be able to do the work and talk through a quote with you, and that could get you a number for if you're doing those window changes. There's some asymmetry and things they could tidy. But if the budget doesn't allow for the structural changes *and* the furniture, you might want a plan B option that involves just paint and new furniture and rugs. You can probably find an online room simulator/decorator and put all the dimensions in and see what this what look like. I would make models of both ways, both with the window/door changes and with just furniture and then just see what your budget gets you and what you prefer. 

I'm *not* a builder, haha, but it's pretty obvious they didn't put in the extra window because they needed supports. So you've got some framing there and tidying. You could have questions about code or things that need permit. If you're doing all that, you may realize you want to put in wiring. Being able to run a fan, floor lamp, water feature, whatever could be nice. My mother's porch like this has baseboard heaters, making it 3 season. 

Ok, I'll just ask. On the trophy/darts wall, what's the flex there? Is that the side where you're morning sun comes in? Or is an unflattering view with little contribution of light? If you're going to take the time to install windows, you'd like to improve symmetry and balance in the room and increase light. It would be easy to move the dart board or rehang it once the structural issues are addressed, seems to me. 

If you like to keep the guitar out there, then windows to control humidity somewhat could be nice. 

Do you know people with jalousie windows in your area who like them? I have relatives who had them on a lake house for a similar situation, 3 season porch, and they recently replaced them for regular vinyl windows. If they're common in your area, economical, and meet your security needs, they might make sense. However when you're pulling things out and doing structural work and doing new, I guess look and see if they're common in your area. I would probably prefer windows with screens, just me.

Ooo, I'm just seeing you have electricity and put in a light fixture. Awesome! You currently have functional windows, right? Screens, no screens? I would probably paint the whole thing for cohesion, get the door, and put your money into area rug and furniture. Target has awesome indoor/outdoor area rugs this time of year. I'd move that heavy book case cubby thing onto that odd wall and balance the room with the weight of furniture on the other side. I'd figure out the dart board after the furniture is right, since it's an easy thing to hang anywhere. If it doesn't have a door, I'd definitely do the door.

If you track where the light is coming from, you might find it's a good room to have some plants. Green would perk the space up immensely. African violets aren't terribly picky and grow like made. Cacti are really good because they thrive on indirect light and being forgotten. 

[Liz CA]

13 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

We have removable windows for our screened porch. The "windows" are just a thick plastic thing put into a wood frame cut to the size to insert into the screen part, and then there are little pieces of wood to hold it in from falling out. Ours are not not nicely finished or high-tech, but it could be 🙂 

Let me know if it makes sense or if a photo would help

 

If you can post a photo that would be great!

[Liz CA]

@PeterPan

Answers to your thoughtful questions and some contemplation  

 

The trick to stopping dirt from coming in is a series of rugs. My dh works construction, so we always have DIRT with capital D, lol. Does this space function as the entry to the house (like coming from the car after you grocery shop) or is it a back porch that you only go through if you want to sit there or go enjoy the back yard?  You could also put in a small tray or shoe rack and have people change shoes there. Outdoor area rugs sound like a fabulous idea. Never thought of it and I can just pick them up and shake them out outside.

I slept on a porch like this one summer, so I'm with you on how cozy and pleasant it can be. How much are you wanting to spend? And are you able to do the work yourself or are you hiring it out? You could maybe have a couple visions, depending on your budget. What you might do is find a handyman, someone who would be able to do the work and talk through a quote with you, and that could get you a number for if you're doing those window changes. There's some asymmetry and things they could tidy. But if the budget doesn't allow for the structural changes *and* the furniture, you might want a plan B option that involves just paint and new furniture and rugs. You can probably find an online room simulator/decorator and put all the dimensions in and see what this what look like. I would make models of both ways, both with the window/door changes and with just furniture and then just see what your budget gets you and what you prefer. We do things like these in phases so every couple of weeks we tackle a new thing. We want it to look nice even if it takes a while to spread the expenses out. DH (carpenter in his former life) will do all the work. I can help with painting though I am not great at it. The South West corner pic with dog bed on floor is where dh will put the stud where it used to be before previous owner put a window there. All plywood stuff will be ripped out. Last night we were going over it and think we may want to go with screens on the outside and put plantation shutters on the inside so it looks a little nicer than just screens and can keep rain and and too much sun out. I will buy a patio table with chairs and spend a little on it so I can get a comfortable set with nice cushions. I won't have to worry that we remember to bring it inside when it suddenly rains. Never thought of online room simulator. WE have to experiment with this!

I'm *not* a builder, haha, but it's pretty obvious they didn't put in the extra window because they needed supports. So you've got some framing there and tidying. You could have questions about code or things that need permit. If you're doing all that, you may realize you want to put in wiring. Being able to run a fan, floor lamp, water feature, whatever could be nice. My mother's porch like this has baseboard heaters, making it 3 season. We got electricity there. Previous owner used the area as a wood shop. 

Ok, I'll just ask. On the trophy/darts wall, what's the flex there? Is that the side where you're morning sun comes in? Or is an unflattering view with little contribution of light? If you're going to take the time to install windows, you'd like to improve symmetry and balance in the room and increase light. It would be easy to move the dart board or rehang it once the structural issues are addressed, seems to me. The trophy/dart wall is the north wall, no direct sunlight. Beyond is the "utilitarian" part of the yard. Our small fishing boat and kayaks are out there, so not a "pretty" view. We are toying with the idea of framing in that window on the left completely to make it a solid wall. 

If you like to keep the guitar out there, then windows to control humidity somewhat could be nice. Dh's guitar usually "lives" in the house. However, on summer nights he likes to play out there.

Do you know people with jalousie windows in your area who like them? I have relatives who had them on a lake house for a similar situation, 3 season porch, and they recently replaced them for regular vinyl windows. If they're common in your area, economical, and meet your security needs, they might make sense. However when you're pulling things out and doing structural work and doing new, I guess look and see if they're common in your area. I would probably prefer windows with screens, just me. I thought this over and agree. It just sounded interesting for a moment because we don't see those type of windows very often in our area and they are kind of cool looking but probably more than we need. I will be perfectly happy with outdoor plantation shutters since I like that look.

Ooo, I'm just seeing you have electricity and put in a light fixture. Awesome! You currently have functional windows, right? Screens, no screens? Somewhat functional. Nasty, old aluminum with screens.  I would probably paint the whole thing for cohesion, get the door, and put your money into area rug and furniture. Target has awesome indoor/outdoor area rugs this time of year. I'd move that heavy book case cubby thing onto that odd wall and balance the room with the weight of furniture on the other side. I'd figure out the dart board after the furniture is right, since it's an easy thing to hang anywhere. If it doesn't have a door, I'd definitely do the door. That's a thought. I think the cubbies could go on the soon-to-be solid wall and may be the dartboard could move to where the cubbies are now. Dh wants to make more small shelves for the trophies and dart accessories and the countless coffee cups that accumulate out there. We are planning on a single French door where the screen door is right now.

If you track where the light is coming from, you might find it's a good room to have some plants. Green would perk the space up immensely. African violets aren't terribly picky and grow like made. Cacti are really good because they thrive on indirect light and being forgotten. I could definitely put some nice plants out there for the final touches and plants that are happily neglected (like my Pothos) are a perfect fit!  :)

 

•  

Edited June 21, 2020 by Liz CA

[Carol in Cal.]

Is this room making the one beyond it dark?  Because it looks like it would.  If so, my inclination would be to open it up as much as possible—maybe even take out some of the existing walls.  That means that the top parts of the solid walls I would want to take out and replace with more windows.  This would also improve air circulation in the room.

For windows, I don’t know if these are still being made, but there is a 1950s or 60s cabin that friends of ours own that has great windows for this.  They are arrays of wide but only maybe 3-4 inches tall pieces of window glass that turn into a joint open or closed position with cranks, similar to old shutters.  They are installed in a boxy frame that has a screen on the inside.  So you are always looking through a screen outside, and sometimes looking through the glass but sometimes looking between the glass pieces.  

I assume that it cools off at night where you are?  If so, you’d want a fan to blow the hot day air out at night.  I agree that a ceiling fan for circulation would be nice all the time, but a directional fan would also be really helpful.  I wonder how hard it would be to get one like they have in super markets that is on the roof and turns automatically when there it’s hotter inside than outside?  You can disable those in the winter and they don’t use any energy.  They are convection driven.

[Liz CA]

This patio room is actually not impacting any other room in terms of light. It connects to the garage on the East wall with a single wide door. A door from the living room leads out into the patio room so you don't have to walk through the garage to get there. 

I think those windows you describe are what people call jalousie windows? Do they look similar to this:

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/exhaust-fans/exhaust-and-supply/shutter-24-exhaust-fans?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KCQjwirz3BRD_ARIsAImf7LOO5VgPo39jfCfXgE46EtjYyLzJhUBRxEdGupka5MVf2OktCJ32qggaAuZoEALw_wcB

I think in this example the slats are aluminum but I have seen glass ones online as well. 

[Carol in Cal.]

19 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

This patio room is actually not impacting any other room in terms of light. It connects to the garage on the East wall with a single wide door. A door from the living room leads out into the patio room so you don't have to walk through the garage to get there. 

I think those windows you describe are what people call jalousie windows? Do they look similar to this:

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/exhaust-fans/exhaust-and-supply/shutter-24-exhaust-fans?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KCQjwirz3BRD_ARIsAImf7LOO5VgPo39jfCfXgE46EtjYyLzJhUBRxEdGupka5MVf2OktCJ32qggaAuZoEALw_wcB

I think in this example the slats are aluminum but I have seen glass ones online as well. 

Yes, very much like this but with glass slats, and also with screens.  They are awesome!

[Melissa in Australia]

2 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Is this room making the one beyond it dark?  Because it looks like it would.  If so, my inclination would be to open it up as much as possible—maybe even take out some of the existing walls.  That means that the top parts of the solid walls I would want to take out and replace with more windows.  This would also improve air circulation in the room.

For windows, I don’t know if these are still being made, but there is a 1950s or 60s cabin that friends of ours own that has great windows for this.  They are arrays of wide but only maybe 3-4 inches tall pieces of window glass that turn into a joint open or closed position with cranks, similar to old shutters.  They are installed in a boxy frame that has a screen on the inside.  So you are always looking through a screen outside, and sometimes looking through the glass but sometimes looking between the glass pieces.  

I assume that it cools off at night where you are?  If so, you’d want a fan to blow the hot day air out at night.  I agree that a ceiling fan for circulation would be nice all the time, but a directional fan would also be really helpful.  I wonder how hard it would be to get one like they have in super markets that is on the roof and turns automatically when there it’s hotter inside than outside?  You can disable those in the winter and they don’t use any energy.  They are convection driven.

Sounds like louver windows

I tried posting a link, but I don't know how to post one on my phone. If you google louver windows many images come up. They are pretty common in Australia for enclosed veranda type rooms, also most bathrooms have them with frosted glass. 

You can open them at all angles to get Max breeze, or have opened a little to still get some air while it is raining. 

I feel the room needs way more light, way more windows

Edited June 21, 2020 by Melissa in Australia

[BusyMom5]

My parents have a similar type room.  I think the long wall facing the yard should be all open- slider door and just boxed, vinyl windows. Keep the pony wall about where it is and frame out for the windows.  The dart board wall I would put 1 regular window on that wall for circulation, but if it isn't in the budget you could leave it off.  I would add a ceiling fan, probably 2- one toward each side.  For the floor, that kind of depends on how you plan to use it.  My parents have put a cheaper indoor outdoor carpet in theirs in years past- the kind like you see in banks- thin berber.  If you dont want it permanent,  paint the concrete and use big area rugs.  If you have it all enclosed, it can be a flex space.   You could choose to hear or cool it for a party or time you need it.  I've heard them called 3 season porches.  My parents had a very small window AC unit that they ran when they needed it.  It's the spill space for grandkids!  They had a space heater for cooler days, too.  We live in a place with 4 seasons, and it was perfect for most times, especially for kids!  They eventually remodeled and made it a conditioned space- adding it to a new HVAC system, removing the doors between it and the rest of the house, finishing sheetrock, and getting real carpeting.   It's my favorite room in their house 😉