Raised garden bed question

[Kanin]

I got permission to put a raised bed in my yard (we rent). I've gardened before, but never in a raised bed, and always with tons of space. So far I'm planning to just get some boards and make a 4x8 rectangle. Our local gardening store delivers soil, mulch, and plants. Do I need to dig up the grass underneath the bed, or will filling the bed with soil/mulch be enough to squelch the grass? And does 4x8 sound like a good size? On my list are green beans, beets, spinach, lettuce, chard, basil (lots!), parsley, and some zucchinis that can hang off the edge and trail onto the grass. 

[MEmama]

Yeah, you’ll need to smother the grass. A thick layer of cardboard (like an Amazon box) should do the trick for a season, but after that it will break down. I haven’t had any luck with landscape fabric preventing tree roots from just popping through. 
 

I actually don’t have any luck with any bed here that isn’t literally off the ground so roots from the soil don’t take over; even pots need to be raised on bricks or something in my yard or they will get rootbound from below. It’s crazy. My go to now is City Picker boxes; no more unwanted roots and the most robust harvests I’ve ever had. I just bought three more yesterday in anticipation of getting an earlier start this year. 
 

Have fun—it seems like it’s going to be a good growing year. Would you mind sharing the name of the nursery that delivers seedlings? I’m starting a few seeds now, but I’ll have to start with actual tomato and pepper plants (etc) and I’ve been wondering how to acquire them this year.
 

 

[vonbon]

Just my $0.02...  I agree...  If I were going to the trouble + time to build a raised bed, even one that would be eventually left or torn down (rental), I'd put down pieces of cardboard to smother the grass.  If you have the $ and are able to get to the hardware store, you might check into weed blocker (fabric / material), though cardboard might work just as well and is certainly cheaper.    

We had a lot of gopher problems when we put in our raised beds, so we attached gopher wire (smaller and stronger than chicken wire) to the bottom of each bed.  Hopefully you don't have that problem! 

[Melissa in Australia]

We have invasive kikuyu grass. Nothing stops it no weed mat or anything like that. What I do is spray the ground with weed killer, then cover with either several layers of newspaper, overlapped well or cardboard, then cover with a very thick layer of compost. Then plant in the compost. After that I only need to do weed control around the perimeter. 
 

if you don’t have kikuyu then just cardboard then compost works beautifully. There is a YouTube market gardener I watch from England, Charles Dowding, he promotes the no dig gardening method and has some very instructive videos on gardening with this method.

i garden fully with the no dig method

[gstharr]

Back when the 9th grader was in 1st grade, we grew pumpkins in a similar set up.  We got 5 pumpkins us to 110 lbs.  takes a lot of water and fertilizer. 

[Pen]

Bigger, I think would be better.  

There are some corner brackets meant to hold wood if you don’t want it permanent.  I wish Id done that even as an owner just to give myself ease of movement of beds, replacement of gopher wire etc.  

our grass can be smothered out by a layer of cardboard or even by thick soil (though blackberries are hard to do that with and invasive plums impossible).   I’d prefer some grass below to weed killer.  (I aim for all organic). 

Another option —harder work—but can make a really good start is to “double dig” your lower layer .  And hey you can’t go to a gym so may as well have a garden work out, right?

https://modernfarmer.com/2016/03/double-digging/

 

We once did a double dug vs not experiment and the double dug really was better.   But so much harder I don’t do it anymore. 

I also highly recommend a layer of wire of some type at bottom 

[HS Mom in NC]

I agree on the cardboard, but I would say two layers of it, and make sure it extends out farther than the wooden sides.  You want to kill the grass around the raised bed by at least 6-8 inches. Some grasses are crazy invasive and will work their way up and under the bed later. Guess how I know?

[City Mouse]

That seems like a lot for one 4’x8’ bed. Two zucchini plants (and you will need at least two) could fill up the entire thing.  I did discover from trial and error that 4ft beds need to be accessible from all sides. 4’ doesn’t sound very wide, but when you have to stretch all the way across to pick something, it can get difficult.

[Spy Car]

This week I made two 8x3 raised beds.

I had some homemade compost ready--but not enough to fill the beds and have much (if any) left for other areas where I intend to plant.

And I did not want to purchase compost due to both exposure or economy.

I considered having "upraised" raised beds.

Then it struck me (heavy labor alert) to use Hügelkultur.

What I did (with the help of forced child labor) was to dig out the beds deeply, like shallow graves. Then I filled the bottoms with branches and twigs (of which I had many thanks to the tree trimmers who came to cut a long tall hedge out of the power lines). I had been "irked" by the mess the tree trimmers left behind, but it turned into a godsend.

After the logs and twigs, we piled up leaves. Then raked up a lot of near-compost and natural compost from neglected corners of our property. Near compost went in next. Natural compost was mixed in with the mountain of natural soil and we started filling. Nearer the top I brought in compost from my pile.

I was able to fill the beds and have soil left over to incorporate in other areas.

Yes, we were both sore from hard work. But it feels good to do something that makes one feel more self-sufficient.

Bill  

 

[BlsdMama]

My garden exists of a 30’ x 100’ rectangle with raised beds distributed throughout and then mulched paths between. 
 

My lumber is UNTREATED 2x6x8.   We chose untreated because I’m okay with replacing lumber but I’m not okay with the chemicals. In a single layer - 6” deep, we dug up the base layer of sod and removed it.  But in the deeper beds? We took the sod, placed it face down, then put soil and compost on top of it. Some of these beds are two layers and some are three. It worked well.  Truth is with gardening comes much weeding.  However, raised beds work great for me - the soil is less compacted and the walk areas are well defined. 
 

It should be mentioned zucchini is ill behaved. A 4x8 bed is quite small for a zucchini if it’s a shared bed. Perhaps trellis it? We use welded wire fence to trellis peas and climbing beans. 

[BlsdMama]

23 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

This week I made two 8x3 raised beds.

I had some homemade compost ready--but not enough to fill the beds and have much (if any) left for other areas where I intend to plant.

And I did not want to purchase compost due to both exposure or economy.

I considered having "upraised" raised beds.

Then it struck me (heavy labor alert) to use Hügelkultur.

What I did (with the help of forced child labor) was to dig out the beds deeply, like shallow graves. Then I filled the bottoms with branches and twigs (of which I had many thanks to the tree trimmers who came to cut a long tall hedge out of the power lines). I had been "irked" by the mess the tree trimmers left behind, but it turned into a godsend.

After the logs and twigs, we piled up leaves. Then raked up a lot of near-compost and natural compost from neglected corners of our property. Near compost went in next. Natural compost was mixed in with the mountain of natural soil and we started filling. Nearer the top I brought in compost from my pile.

I was able to fill the beds and have soil left over to incorporate in other areas.

Yes, we were both sore from hard work. But it feels good to do something that makes one feel more self-sufficient.

Bill  

 

Bill, I’ve made a very large hugelkulture bed here, approximately 400 square feet. Initially it was for raspberries. She’d need a fair bit of resources in terms of wood, leaves, etc. I did not have spare soil after mine because of the mounding and how the soil settled between materials. 
 

I think if you’ve gardened before and love it? Hugelkultur and the concept behind it has great value. I also think there is value in keeping it simple. Complexity can inhibit effectiveness.  The easier it is, the more likely you are to do it.  Definitely feel good about taking that first step and feel free to ramp up in successive years. I have gardened with family since I was tiny and we’ve had a garden our married life for about 18 years and we really just ramped it up in the last five years, but I have an insane amount of helpers who are very gardening competent. 

[HS Mom in NC]

Adding a vertical gardening structure to your bed could give you more growing space for more plants in one bed. Here are images of different options: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/217439488233458912/

I have fence post and fencing vertical structures on my wood plank beds, the sheet much beds, and on my keyhole shaped hugulkulture.

 

[Kanin]

On 4/8/2020 at 11:07 AM, MEmama said:

Yeah, you’ll need to smother the grass. A thick layer of cardboard (like an Amazon box) should do the trick for a season, but after that it will break down. I haven’t had any luck with landscape fabric preventing tree roots from just popping through. 
 

I actually don’t have any luck with any bed here that isn’t literally off the ground so roots from the soil don’t take over; even pots need to be raised on bricks or something in my yard or they will get rootbound from below. It’s crazy. My go to now is City Picker boxes; no more unwanted roots and the most robust harvests I’ve ever had. I just bought three more yesterday in anticipation of getting an earlier start this year. 
 

Have fun—it seems like it’s going to be a good growing year. Would you mind sharing the name of the nursery that delivers seedlings? I’m starting a few seeds now, but I’ll have to start with actual tomato and pepper plants (etc) and I’ve been wondering how to acquire them this year.
 

 

Cardboard... genius! My mom uses it to smother weeds all the time. I didn't even think of it. 

[Kanin]

4 hours ago, City Mouse said:

That seems like a lot for one 4’x8’ bed. Two zucchini plants (and you will need at least two) could fill up the entire thing.  I did discover from trial and error that 4ft beds need to be accessible from all sides. 4’ doesn’t sound very wide, but when you have to stretch all the way across to pick something, it can get difficult.

Maybe I'll go for two beds, but narrower. I'm not great at visualizing sizes of things, so I have to go measure it out.

[Kanin]

35 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Adding a vertical gardening structure to your bed could give you more growing space for more plants in one bed. Here are images of different options: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/217439488233458912/

I have fence post and fencing vertical structures on my wood plank beds, the sheet much beds, and on my keyhole shaped hugulkulture.

 

Good idea! I'm looking at hugulkulture now... that's a new word for me 🙂

 

[MEmama]

20 minutes ago, Mainer said:

Maybe I'll go for two beds, but narrower. I'm not great at visualizing sizes of things, so I have to go measure it out.

4 feet is pretty standard as long as you can access the bed from both sides so you can reach the middle comfortably. 
That width keeps buying the lumber simple too. 3 8 foot pieces, only one cut in half. Usually the big hardware stores will do a simple cut like that for no charge. 👍

[Spy Car]

6 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

Bill, I’ve made a very large hugelkulture bed here, approximately 400 square feet. Initially it was for raspberries. She’d need a fair bit of resources in terms of wood, leaves, etc. I did not have spare soil after mine because of the mounding and how the soil settled between materials. 
 

I think if you’ve gardened before and love it? Hugelkultur and the concept behind it has great value. I also think there is value in keeping it simple. Complexity can inhibit effectiveness.  The easier it is, the more likely you are to do it.  Definitely feel good about taking that first step and feel free to ramp up in successive years. I have gardened with family since I was tiny and we’ve had a garden our married life for about 18 years and we really just ramped it up in the last five years, but I have an insane amount of helpers who are very gardening competent. 

400 square feet? Do you have a tractor? Or hand dug by the insane number of helpers? Impressive!

I've been doing a lot of gardening in recent years, trying to beautify out home after ripping out all the grass. I've got something special started. Still much to do.

But aside from my "dream" herb garden, mostly not edibles. 

We've had light rain over the past few days. Started right after we planted a large bed of greens and lettuces. Perfect timing. Small 6-pack starters are exploding.

Never employed Hügelkultur before, but it killed two birds with one stone. I got rig of unwanted yard debris and I got my raised beds filled for zero dollars. Win, win.

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BlsdMama]

21 hours ago, Spy Car said:

400 square feet? Do you have a tractor? Or hand dug by the insane number of helpers? Impressive!

I've been doing a lot of gardening in recent years, trying to beautify out home after ripping out all the grass. I've got something special started. Still much to do.

But aside from my "dream" herb garden, mostly not edibles. 

We've had light rain over the past few days. Started right after we planted a large bed of greens and lettuces. Perfect timing. Small 6-pack starters are exploding.

Never employed Hügelkultur before, but it killed two birds with one stone. I got rig of unwanted yard debris and I got my raised beds filled for zero dollars. Win, win.

Bill

Oh geez! That should have been FORTY! 4-0.  My garden is huge, (100' x 30') but this bed was approximately 20-25 long and then 2-2.5 wide. 😛 
Honestly? It might rank up there in my biggest gardening disappointment to date.  I've tried everything to make raspberries happy and I've finally utterly given up.  We converted into a place for the aronia bushes. 😛

Bill, what did you plant in it if you don't mind my asking?  I did it because raspberries don't like wet feet.  Initially I made a narrow and long bed mixed with sand, but they dried out too quickly.  So then I tried this - still a no go.  I think I needed to baby them more than I did.  I'm great at the beginning of a project, the follow up kills me (or the plant) if it's fussy.

[BlsdMama]

On 4/9/2020 at 12:11 PM, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Adding a vertical gardening structure to your bed could give you more growing space for more plants in one bed. Here are images of different options: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/217439488233458912/

I have fence post and fencing vertical structures on my wood plank beds, the sheet much beds, and on my keyhole shaped hugulkulture.

 

You have me curious - is there reasoning behind the shape?  Or just for aesthetic interest? What did you plant in that bed?

[HS Mom in NC]

10 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

You have me curious - is there reasoning behind the shape?  Or just for aesthetic interest? What did you plant in that bed?

Keyhole gardening: https://www.hgtv.com/outdoors/gardens/garden-styles-and-types/keyhole-gardening-tips

I have melons and Nasturtiums planted in it.  The smaller melons are planted on the outer edge against the fencing material trellis so they can grow vertically, and the watermelons are planted in the middle of raised bed so they can grown across and down the bed.

Mine is made of cardboard on the bottom and then brows/greens largest parts to smallest parts hugelkulture assembly of the ornamental Cleveland pear tree we cut down because its roots were threatening our septic tank.  We didn't dig a trench for this one, we just directly layered on the existing soil.  On top of those layers is compost. my neighbor's chicken coop litter, and a thick layer of fall leaves from all over the property.

[kiwik]

If you are renting I would buy the kitset version.  My neighbours have one they brought with them from a previous rental.  

[Spy Car]

2 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

Oh geez! That should have been FORTY! 4-0.  My garden is huge, (100' x 30') but this bed was approximately 20-25 long and then 2-2.5 wide. 😛 
Honestly? It might rank up there in my biggest gardening disappointment to date.  I've tried everything to make raspberries happy and I've finally utterly given up.  We converted into a place for the aronia bushes. 😛

Bill, what did you plant in it if you don't mind my asking?  I did it because raspberries don't like wet feet.  Initially I made a narrow and long bed mixed with sand, but they dried out too quickly.  So then I tried this - still a no go.  I think I needed to baby them more than I did.  I'm great at the beginning of a project, the follow up kills me (or the plant) if it's fussy.

40 not 400? LOL. Thank goodness. I was really feeling like a piker.

Since we finished the beds it has been raining. Rare for Los Angeles. So my starter plants are still in flats. I'm going to put in zucchini, cucumbers, basil, garlic, etc. The first two I will try to grow up on supports. Not getting too exotic. Easy stuff.

Bill

 

 

[Kanin]

On 4/9/2020 at 2:09 PM, MEmama said:

4 feet is pretty standard as long as you can access the bed from both sides so you can reach the middle comfortably. 
That width keeps buying the lumber simple too. 3 8 foot pieces, only one cut in half. Usually the big hardware stores will do a simple cut like that for no charge. 👍

Yes! I"ll post a picture once I get it sorted. 

[ElizabethB]

On 4/9/2020 at 10:20 AM, Spy Car said:

 

What I did (with the help of forced child labor) was to dig out the beds deeply, like shallow graves. Then I filled the bottoms with branches and twigs (of which I had many thanks to the tree trimmers who came to cut a long tall hedge out of the power lines). I had been "irked" by the mess the tree trimmers left behind, but it turned into a godsend.

After the logs and twigs, we piled up leaves. Then raked up a lot of near-compost and natural compost from neglected corners of our property. Near compost went in next. Natural compost was mixed in with the mountain of natural soil and we started filling. Nearer the top I brought in compost from my pile.

I was able to fill the beds and have soil left over to incorporate in other areas.

Yes, we were both sore from hard work. But it feels good to do something that makes one feel more self-sufficient.

Bill  

 

My husband made a garden box plot with forced child labor as well.  Afterwards, they tried to burn down the backyard by trying out a branding iron we got as a going away present (it's in the shape of a C-130) and branding some of our wood furniture after a test board.  We still have a house and a backyard and the furniture looks surprisingly good. My daughter and I were hiding inside.

It is supposed to freeze this weekend so our little plantlings are being driven in and out of the garage in a little wagon, to be planted after the last bit of snow melts on the tops of the nearby visible mountains, which the locals say is a sign for when to plant.