Crazy story of the day

[PeachyDoodle]

Has anybody else seen this story from New York Magazine? It's wild!

https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/bruce-hay-paternity-trap-maria-pia-shuman-mischa-haider.html

[Corraleno]

I read that last night. I feel really sorry for the guy, and especially his family, whose lives were totally disrupted and damaged through no fault of their own. He comes across as somewhat aspie/spectrummy, and I think the combination of his extreme naivety and these incredibly vicious, manipulative con artists was like a perfect storm. I hope the women involved end up in prison for a long time.

[JustEm]

what an odd story

[Scarlett]

That’s an insane story.  

[DesertBlossom]

And this is another reason you don't sleep with people you barely know.

[Scarlett]

8 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

And this is another reason you don't sleep with people you barely know.

I know right?  In all of these scam stories there is a point where I go 'see, now there is where they went wrong.'  

[Scarlett]

Jennifer seems to be the only one in the entire mess with any common sense or judgment of motives and character.

[Janeway]

My unpopular opinion is that women so often get away with victimizing men, and using children for that, and it is the popular opinion that women can do no wrong and won't lie and are owed everything that contributed to this big time. I wish those women would be prosecuted and that poor child be placed with a decent family, but it will never happen. The media will just scream about the poor poor family that was broken a part by the terrible and mean man run society if these women got their just due and the child got a decent family to grow up in.

[PeachyDoodle]

35 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Jennifer seems to be the only one in the entire mess with any common sense or judgment of motives and character.

I thought so too. Thank goodness she had the wherewithal to have the deed to their home transferred into her own name only! How on earth did he manage to accidentally sign a contract leasing them the house (a multi-million dollar home for $1500/mo!!)?? He's a law professor, for crying out loud!

[PrincessMommy]

11 hours ago, ThatBookwormMom said:

Is anyone else horrified for the kids of these people? They're all I could think about!

I kept wondering about them too.  What an awful situation to grow up in.  Awful.

My random thoughts....

I agree that the guy's an idiot.  He gave his passwords to these women?!?!  Doesn't Harvard Law school teach critical thinking? 

I would not be a happy parent spending money on Harvard tuition for my kids to be taught by him.  

OTOH,  I have a family member who is currently a victim of elder fraud.  We cannot get her away because she refuses to believe her family.  It is tragic to watch it all unfold.   She has lost so much money.  

My father is totally gullible, like this man, and he's not on the spectrum.  The only reason he has not become a victim, since my mom died, is that he has no money (thank God for small mercies).. He's a very devout man who I would hope would keep it in his pocket.  Otherwise, I'm sure he'd be preyed upon.    

[Chris in VA]

That was way too long for me--can someone give me a three sentence summary?😊

[PrincessMommy]

8 minutes ago, Chris in VA said:

That was way too long for me--can someone give me a three sentence summary?😊

It's way too complicated for 3 sentences.

I recommend reading the first paragraph and then the last 3-4 paragraphs.  🙂  

 

 

[JustEm]

43 minutes ago, Chris in VA said:

That was way too long for me--can someone give me a three sentence summary?😊

Two women con a man into thinking he is the father of one of their children(that has yet to be proved, he waited 2 years to ask for a paternity test.) They con this man for many years trying to get him leave his long-term partner and their children for them. Eventually his partner finds out and starts putting up safe guards to protect herself and her kids, in the meantime they trick him into signing a lease for them to move into his other families home and they file a sexual harassment complaint to Harvard. his work place. 

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Chris in VA said:

That was way too long for me--can someone give me a three sentence summary?😊

 

Basically two women ran a very long con on a very naive, possibly Aspie Harvard professor who was divorced but lived in the same house with his ex-wife and kids. One of the women seduced him, then lied that he had impregnated her (even though he never ejaculated — he was extremely naive). She pulled the same scam on multiple men, seducing them and then claiming after a one-night-stand that she was pregnant and they needed to pay for the baby. She did have a baby, but has refused to take a paternity test. The two women lived together and were raising the child together, and they sucked this professor into their lives, urging him to move out of his house and move in with them. All this time he believed the child was his and did not want to be cut out of the child's life, and he was also naive enough to believe that the women really cared about him. They were very very manipulative and gaslighting. Eventually they tricked him into giving them his passwords and signing some documents without reading them, then while the family were out of town, the women rented a moving truck, moved all the family's furniture out of the house, moved their own stuff in, and when the family returned from vacation, they were locked out of their own house. When police were called, the women produced the lease agreement they had tricked the professor into signing, and the family spent months getting them evicted. The women sent incredibly vicious and threatening emails and texts to the guy whenever he didn't do what they wanted. The one who is not the mother of the baby is a grad student at Harvard, and in retaliation she filed a sexual harassment complaint with Harvard, claiming he raped and abused her. The guy hasn't been able to teach for the last 2 years while the investigation proceeds.

ETA: The professor also suffers from mental health issues, and that is one of the ways he bonded with the women, who also claimed to deal with depression and anxiety. In the beginning he felt like they "really understood him," in a way that his very successful ex-wife might not have. And as things deteriorated and they began acting more and more unstable, he excused a lot of their behavior on the grounds that they were dealing with mental illness. It was a case of "boiling the frog slowly," to the extent that he never realized he was being boiled until they tried to steal his house.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Corraleno

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

 

The guy hasn't been able to teach for the last 2 years while the investigation proceeds.

The guy who teaches a Harvard law class on "Judgement and Decision making" who has such poor "Judgement" and "Decision making" should not be allowed to teach that course forever. The parents who paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to Harvard for their kids to study under this professor should ask for their money back! And the newspaper writer is stupid to give this man a forum to portray himself as a victim and talk all this BS about his sexual activities and his gullibility and the prospect that he could "be on the spectrum" etc - this professor does not want to lose his job and is trying to create sympathy with the public as a "possible man on the spectrum" taken advantage of by ruthless con artists in order to influence the investigation at Harvard. I find it hard to believe that this guy who is a law professor at an Ivy and is living with an Assistant US Attorney and has knowingly continued relationships with these women after being cautioned by his partner is a victim.

This is a smart man and there is a reason that he did this interview where he intentionally comes across as a pathetic/vulnerable/possible aspie with mental health issues - there is probably more to this story and I am a cynic - I don't believe what he is saying in its entirety though there may be parts of it that are true.

Edited July 31, 2019 by mathnerd

[Scarlett]

31 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

The guy who teaches a Harvard law class on "Judgement and Decision making" who has such poor "Judgement" and "Decision making" should not be allowed to teach that course forever. The parents who paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to Harvard for their kids to study under this professor should ask for their money back! And the newspaper writer is stupid to give this man a forum to portray himself as a victim and talk all this BS about his sexual activities and his gullibility and the prospect that he could "be on the spectrum" etc - this professor does not want to lose his job and is trying to create sympathy with the public as a "possible man on the spectrum" taken advantage of by ruthless con artists in order to influence the investigation at Harvard. This guy is a law professor at an Ivy and is living with an Assistant US Attorney and has knowingly cultivated relationships with the con-artists over a span of years and suddenly talks about being a victim. I am a cynic and don't believe his story in its entirety though there may be parts of it that are true.

I for sure don't think he is a total victim.....there was just so much that wasn't adding up...and Jennifer kept telling him....but I am not sure what parts aren't true. I think he was just delusional.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Scarlett

[Corraleno]

24 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

The guy who teaches a Harvard law class on "Judgement and Decision making" who has such poor "Judgement" and "Decision making" should not be allowed to teach that course forever. The parents who paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to Harvard for their kids to study under this professor should ask for their money back! And the newspaper writer is stupid to give this man a forum to portray himself as a victim and talk all this BS about his sexual activities and his gullibility and the prospect that he could "be on the spectrum" etc - this professor does not want to lose his job and is trying to create sympathy with the public as a "possible man on the spectrum" taken advantage of by ruthless con artists in order to influence the investigation at Harvard. I find it hard to believe that this guy who is a law professor at an Ivy and is living with an Assistant US Attorney and has knowingly continued relationships with these women after being cautioned by his partner is a victim.

This is a smart man and there is a reason that he did this interview where he intentionally comes across as a pathetic/vulnerable/possible aspie with mental health issues - there is probably more to this story and I am a cynic - I don't believe what he is saying in its entirety though there may be parts of it that are true.

Having a high IQ does not protect people from being used, scammed, and gaslighted. I know an Aspie with an extremely high IQ who was exactly as naive as this guy, who very nearly lost his house and all his money to a woman who convinced him that he was the love of her life, no one ever understood her the way he did, they were soulmates, blah blah blah. Several people tried to warn him, but she convinced him the naysayers were just jealous. The only thing that saved him in the end was that the con artist found an older, richer guy and dumped him before he'd cleaned out his bank accounts and put her on the deed to his house.

The idea that the professor is making all this up to influence the investigation at Harvard is bizarre considering that these same women have tried to run similar scams on multiple men, there are emails and texts showing them threatening to file the complaint in retaliation for not doing what they wanted, and there is no evidence whatsoever for the "abuse" claimed in the Title IX complaint.

 

[mathnerd]

1 minute ago, Corraleno said:

Having a high IQ does not protect people from being used, scammed, and gaslighted. I know an Aspie with an extremely high IQ who was exactly as naive as this guy, who very nearly lost his house and all his money to a woman who convinced him that he was the love of her life, no one ever understood her the way he did, they were soulmates, blah blah blah. Several people tried to warn him, but she convinced him the naysayers were just jealous. The only thing that saved him in the end was that the con artist found an older, richer guy and dumped him before he'd cleaned out his bank accounts and put her on the deed to his house.

The idea that the professor is making all this up to influence the investigation at Harvard is bizarre considering that these same women have tried to run similar scams on multiple men, there are emails and texts showing them threatening to file the complaint in retaliation for not doing what they wanted, and there is no evidence whatsoever for the "abuse" claimed in the Title IX complaint.

 

A lot of the story does not add up. This man probably knew that they were scammers but probably was OK with the setup because he was happy with them. Which is why he did not ask for a paternity test nor did he heed the warnings of his Assistant US Attorney partner and which might also be why he transferred the title of his house to her name and then continued his liaisons with those 2 women. We are just going by his word that he was conned and that he "might be an aspie" now when he is under investigation. I do not question his high IQ. I actually think that there is more to this than meets the eye because nothing is adding up, in my opinion. Harvard has not concluded that there is no evidence of "abuse" in the Title IX complaint, yet. We just know what the professor told the journalist.

[Corraleno]

Just now, mathnerd said:

A lot of the story does not add up. This man probably knew that they were scammers but probably was OK with the setup because he was happy with them. Which is why he did not ask for a paternity test nor did he heed the warnings of his Assistant US Attorney partner and which might also be why he transferred the title of his house to her name and then continued his liaisons with those 2 women. We are just going by his word that he was conned and that he "might be an aspie" now when he is under investigation. I do not question his high IQ. I actually think that there is more to this than meets the eye because nothing is adding up, in my opinion. Harvard has not concluded that there is no evidence of "abuse" in the Title IX complaint, yet. We just know what the professor told the journalist.

The story may not "add up" to someone who has never been scammed or gaslighted, but to those who have watched otherwise intelligent people get scammed, it is not far-fetched at all. In every story you read about people being cat-fished or scammed like this, there are always big red flags that everyone but the victim can see plain as day, and there are always friends or family warning them. And the con artist always claims those people are just jealous, or they don't understand, or they just don't want you to be happy, etc. — in fact, they often use those warnings as a way to further cut off the victim from the sane people around him, and make the victim further dependent on the con artist. 

There are emails in which they blatantly threaten to file the Title IX complaint as retaliation. They tried to steal his house, they rammed his car, they tried to run the same scam on at least three other men (and there could be more).  I think the chances this guy actually sexually assaulted either of these grifters is nil. 

[PrincessMommy]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I for sure don't think he is a total victim.....there was just so much that wasn't adding up...and Jennifer kept telling him....but I am not sure what parts aren't true. I think he was just delusional.

Certainly, he was not using his brain when making decisions.  😉

 

I know he had trouble brewing tEA because of meds, but they were stroking his ego too. 

[PrincessMommy]

3 hours ago, Corraleno said:

The story may not "add up" to someone who has never been scammed or gaslighted, but to those who have watched otherwise intelligent people get scammed, it is not far-fetched at all. In every story you read about people being cat-fished or scammed like this, there are always big red flags that everyone but the victim can see plain as day, and there are always friends or family warning them. And the con artist always claims those people are just jealous, or they don't understand, or they just don't want you to be happy, etc. — in fact, they often use those warnings as a way to further cut off the victim from the sane people around him, and make the victim further dependent on the con artist. 

There are emails in which they blatantly threaten to file the Title IX complaint as retaliation. They tried to steal his house, they rammed his car, they tried to run the same scam on at least three other men (and there could be more).  I think the chances this guy actually sexually assaulted either of these grifters is nil. 

exactly!  We see this with my MIL.  

 

It does make me wonder if Stupid Professor has some kind of dementia (or other brain issue) coming on that is still it's early days.  That can cause otherwise intelligent people to lose their critical thinking skills.    This is why elderly are easy targets.  Their brains do not function as well as when they were younger. 

[ktgrok]

9 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Lesson from this?  Don’t sleep with women who aren’t your wife, and be careful who you allow into your inner sphere.  Yikes.  They were obviously crazy, but that wasn’t what solely created the mess he ended up in. This sounds victim blame-y, but at some point there does need to be some lessons drawn out of the experience for anyone else who could potentially be targeted by such grifters.

Also, don't court crazy. (there is a less gentrified version of that statement that is also true)

Seriously some people are drawn to drama - they like the emotional rush. But what drama gets you is this crap. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I agree with the ego thing. That’s why I think Con-Lesbian’s ploy is an important aspect to the story. He didn’t just do all of this with what he thought was a hetero woman- had that been the case this would have never made the news. No. He, with all of his “intellect”, went for the “you’re the only man manly enough to turn me from lesbianism” trope. 

Yeah, I imagine that's the depression/self esteem issues at play. The whole "savior" thing, the idea that you are special. 

It's the same type of need that drives girls who love bad boys, etc. 

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Yeah, I imagine that's the depression/self esteem issues at play. The whole "savior" thing, the idea that you are special. 

It's the same type of need that drives girls who love bad boys, etc. 

 

I don't even think it needs to go that deep.  An awkward man will usually accept sex from an attractive woman.  Even an unattractive woman.  If he also happens to be a "good" guy he'll take her at face value.  They've probably tried it hundreds of times and only had it work a few.

[ktgrok]

11 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

I don't even think it needs to go that deep.  An awkward man will usually accept sex from an attractive woman.  Even an unattractive woman.  If he also happens to be a "good" guy he'll take her at face value.  They've probably tried it hundreds of times and only had it work a few.

Yeah, but he was deep in this mess for YEARS, and only had sex with her twice. And he never had sex with the second woman, and still spend hours upon hours with her nearly daily. It was about a lot more than sex, it was about needing to feel needed. 

[ktgrok]

26 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

That's if you assume what he's saying is the full and accurate version of the story.  Not sure I'm willing to assume that. You don't get to be a tenured professor at Harvard Law by being an absent minded, bumbling, innocent guy who was simply too naive to ask intelligent questions. 

No, but plenty of smart people love drama and being needed. 

[PrincessMommy]

3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

No, but plenty of smart people love drama and being needed. 

This is SO true.  Especially if you add loneliness into the mix. 

[ktgrok]

28 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

OMG but he had an entire FAMILY - actual children - who presumably needed their Dad, who was off playing footsies under the table with a pair of grifters.

No free passes from me on 'being needed'. Imagine if I went and endangered my kids, my ex, their home, because I felt 'needed'...anyone gonna give Mama a pass on that behaviour ? I think not.

This wasn't some relationship-deprived maladjusted person - this man had children, a co-parent, colleagues, students....

OH, I don't mean it as an excuse or a free pass! I mean it in the sense that he has deep seated psychological issues and that is why he fell for this. 

As a former enabler, who stayed in a drama filled, way messed up relationship with someone who was NOT mentally healthy, I get what that can look and feel like. It is NOT healthy. But I thought I could save this person. Sigh. That didn't speak to altruism as much as a need to be needed. Counseling helped me tremendously, and I got over it, lol. Of course, I was 17 when we got together and I think a lot of teen girls have that kind of mindset, and then outgrow it. This dude never did. 

[Corraleno]

17 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

I agree with the ego thing. That’s why I think Con-Lesbian’s ploy is an important aspect to the story. He didn’t just do all of this with what he thought was a hetero woman- had that been the case this would have never made the news. No. He, with all of his “intellect”, went for the “you’re the only man manly enough to turn me from lesbianism” trope. Makes me gag. It speaks a lot to his “enlightenment” level too. 🙄 And what’s more interesting is that it was a scheme that worked with multiple men!! What the cons did was lousy. But there is clearly a lot missing from his story, and he knowingly entered into a great deal of this and chose to stay engaged. I don’t feel sorry for him. I do feel sorry for his ex-wife and kids. I also admire his ex-wife’s restraint. I would probably be awaiting trial at this point in her shoes. 

She used the "you're the only man I ever slept with" ploy to prevent him from asking for a paternity test, there's nothing in the story to suggest he believed she was going to stop being a lesbian. They only had sex twice (rather unsuccessfully both times), so it seems incredibly unlikely that he would believe that sex with a man who was basically impotent due to antidepressants was going to change her sexual orientation. If anything, he may have been relieved at the idea of what he thought (mistakenly) was a deep emotional relationship without the requirement for sexual performance that he wasn't capable of. I think what he got out of it initially was a bit of excitement and a sense of being needed and appreciated and understood, and after they reeled him in, the gaslighting kept him there. There was obviously a lot willful sticking his head in the sand as things went more and more off the rails, but it can be hard to face the fact that you've made a really terrible mistake and decide to just cut your losses instead of sticking it out in the hope that things will get better. And it can be hard to fathom that anyone can be as crazy and manipulative and psycho as these women were, or that they had such an incredibly elaborate scam worked out.

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Corraleno

[Corraleno]

15 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

You don't get to be a tenured professor at Harvard Law by being an absent minded, bumbling, innocent guy who was simply too naive to ask intelligent questions. 

His friends and students at Harvard described him as a brilliant teacher but painfully socially awkward, and the "quintessential absent-minded professor." I have known several brilliant but totally absent-minded professors, including a couple who were clearly Aspie. My SIL used to work for an Oxford professor who was absolutely brilliant, a world expert in his field,  who often had to be reminded that his glasses were on top of his head when he was looking for them. There's a reason the "absent-minded professor" is a stereotype. And the highest IQ in the world does not provide immunity against making incredibly stupid emotional decisions.

[PrincessMommy]

14 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

OMG but he had an entire FAMILY - actual children - who presumably needed their Dad, who was off playing footsies under the table with a pair of grifters.

No free passes from me on 'being needed'. Imagine if I went and endangered my kids, my ex, their home, because I felt 'needed'...anyone gonna give Mama a pass on that behaviour ? I think not.

This wasn't some relationship-deprived maladjusted person - this man had children, a co-parent, colleagues, students....

So much this.  This scenario happened in my family but not with grifters, just overly needy and mentally ill people that my mom became obsessed with.  I learned very early on that we kids were not a priority.  There were always way more important people than me or my sisters (or my dad).  My dad allowed it to happen, even when we children warned him, don't let this person come live at the house.  My mom was definitely a willing participant.   These kids are fortunate they have such a great advocate in their mom, but the emotional repercussions will be long-lasting in this man's family.  Tragic.  

[ktgrok]

An interesting aspect of "relationships" like this, where it is so bad, and then so good, and on and on, is the power of variable reward schedules. It's been shown that something that is always rewarding, and at about the same level, is LESS appealing than something that has random rewards that can't be predicted. It's why gambling is so addictive. And always one reason abusive relationships are hard to get out of. The brain is wired to stick things out longer, in hopes of the next reward. Where as if the reward was a steady, normal thing, than the first time it goes away the brain is primed to give up and leave.