IEP Meeting Next Week: Need Help Interpreting Testing in 2E Kid

[SeaConquest]

The notes were just things I had taken away from this convo. Things others had written here, that I thought were useful points I could discuss with them when drafting the psych report and 504.

I am not looking for any further testing. Like I said, these were just thoughts others had brought up here that I jotted down to discuss with them.

[Pen]

Unless he already has this option, I might ask for permission to have him take a lab science at a local public high school next year or two—if you think he’d be ready for that

[Lecka]

I think your list looks great.

I have two questions.  One, do you feel like you know what will help in with test-taking?  Are you saying things that exist, or tried and true for him?  I feel like there is a greater range of options than what you are mentioning — I think I would be very open to what they say at the meeting, if they have any suggestions.

Two, maybe preferential seating instead of front of classroom.  Teachers don’t always sit kids at the front, depending on the shape of the room or where the teacher often stands.  It may be a side of the room, especially if there are tables or some other non-traditional desk lay-out.  

I hope it goes well, good luck!

[Pen]

 

46 minutes ago, Lecka said:

 I feel like there is a greater range of options than what you are mentioning —

 

Any specific other ideas? 

 

46 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I think I would be very open to what they say at the meeting, if they have any suggestions.

 

I think that’s a good idea. 

[Lecka]

Well, I wonder if it really assumes it is more of a processing issue, when maybe there is more anxiety to it.  I think some kids can just have more time to sit and be anxious when they have extra time.  

So — not even having tests, having formative assessments (or whatever).

Or having a shorter test.  The test doesn’t have to be the same length, it could be half as long.  

I think it sounds like right now there is not a really engrained test anxiety, and to me, it would be a priority to avoid that.  It is just a new problem.

I think some of the options are more appropriate for older kids and not for younger kids.  

Like — my 13-year-old would not have done well to be alone in a room when he was 10.  Now that would be fine for him, because he is older.  I think last year it would have been fine for him.   Younger and I think it would be stressful for him and he would not have anyone to help him if he was getting anxious.  

He was having a teacher provide him emotional support, noticing if he seemed anxious, etc, and it just was not about seeing that he re-created a test faithfully.

I am sure it depends but it just seems like something more appropriate for older kids, or kids where it is known that the issue is definitely mainly processing speed/focus (whatever) and not anxiety.  

I would rather start out with breaking something up into different days, with an adult in the same room.  (If you even go with doing the tests and not formative assessments, while he is younger.)

I also don’t know if younger kids are going to focus well when they have extended time.  

That is a reason to do half of something, because if it needs to be spread over 2 days, at what point is it really worth spreading it over 2 days, instead of cutting it in half.  

If it’s spread over 2 days, while the schedule calls for a new lesson on the second day instead of “math test part 2,” then that is awkward to work out, depending on the schedule involved.  

It could also just be pretty unnecessary to do the full test, if doing half could serve the same purpose.  

I mean — the test is presumably designed to be appropriate in time/length for a grade/age level, and not because there is some magic right number of questions.  

Edit:  I would like to know the purpose of the tests. 

They are not needed for school/grades right now.

Taking a test to “get used to taking tests” I think can wait for an older age, or else stick to things that are developmentally appropriate — which could look like doing half as much, but maybe do just the harder problems or the word problems.

I have seen stuff scratched out for my older son, where — he only spent his time on the main thing the teacher wanted, and it would usually be the second half or just the very last thing.  Edit:  sometimes the second half or the very last question or problem will incorporate things from the rest, so this can work out well for some things.  

Edited April 8, 2019 by Lecka

[Lecka]

To be fair my son was completely shutting down at one time.

And, I definitely am a fan of reducing things instead of risking kids just having engrained anxiety and shutting down.  

It doesn’t sound like op is in this situation but it is still what I think, and a reason to think about what is sensible for a younger child.

For college I don’t think they are going to have “just do half, just do a separate assignment.”  But elementary school can do that!  

[Lecka]

I think the main thing is, what would be appropriate and not stressful to the point of anxiety symptoms.  Whatever that is.  That could be a lot of different things.  

[Storygirl]

I think you have a good list of things to ask for.

A couple of comments. They will not give you the entire list, just because you ask. Some things they may automatically agree to. Other things they will want to discuss, and they will want to know that there is a demonstration of need.

Yes, I agree with Lecka that our schools have wanted it to be "preferential seating" not seating in the front. Also, know that they will take the child's opinion into consideration. So if he is entitled to sit in a certain place, but he does not want to, they will not make him.

The testing in a quiet room accommodation for us has always included an adult proctor in the room and can include other children. It is not guaranteed that the child will be in the room alone. Sometimes my son finds that the other kids who are in the quiet room are the same kids who are distracting to him, so even if he is allowed to go in the quiet room, sometimes he does not want to. The teachers will not make him go if he does not want to. But he is in middle school now. In earlier years, he did not have as much of a choice, and it was more, "come with me for the test," from the aide or intervention teacher.

Perhaps they will allow ear plugs. Haven't asked for that one. I suspect they may not allow music, because they will be not able to monitor what he is actually hearing through the earphones.

If he is a kid that fidgets, you can also ask that he be allowed to use a teacher-approved fidget, like a Koosh ball. Or chew gum or have hard candy like a peppermint.

Because they think his writing and handwriting is on grade level, I think the writing accommodations you are asking for are the iffiest. I think they may be appropriate, but I also think they may say that he doesn't need them. So I would take whatever samples and evidence you might have. For example, something he wrote by hand versus something he typed. Or a worksheet or study guide that he filled in in a wonky way, showing that he can't do it well enough to get the information he needs onto the paper in the time allowed.

Also, here there is a distinction on the document for what is allowed in class and what is allowed for standardized testing. They do not have all options open for standardized testing, because what is allowed may be determined by the state. So they may say, "no, the state does not allow that."

Also, in our state, they have a kind of new thing where if the student does not USE the accommodation in class, they will not allow them to use it for testing. DS does not use all of his allowed accommodations, and we know he may eventually lose the right to use them. So we encourage him to use them, whether he feels that he needs them or not.

Be aware that kids who get an extra time accommodation do not always know how to use it. They may still rush through and finish quickly and not use the extra time. So if he gets that accommodation, you might discuss or practice what he should do if he finishes and finds he has time left.

Sometimes states or schools have restrictions about how much extra time can be had. I don't remember what you are asking for, but they might grant time and a half but not double time, for example.

DS does have in his IEP to have assignments shortened if needed. He has extra time to complete classroom assignments, as well. There are cons to these choices, just so you know. Sometimes the student does not master the material as well if assignments are shortened (this may not apply to your son, but I am mentioning it, just in case). And if my son were to take extra time for all of his assignments, he would quickly fall behind the pace of the class. In his case, it is kind of a fall-back safety provision, where if he does not complete a certain something on time, he will not be penalized for lateness.

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Storygirl

[Storygirl]

My other son, who has a 504 for anxiety, would shut down when stressed, and his brain would stop thinking, and he just could do nothing. When we wrote his 504, his teacher wanted him to have the extra time for tests, not because he always needed it every time, but so that if he shuts down and needs 15 minutes to regroup and be able to continue, he can still finish the test.

So there are times when he would not use the extra time, and it would be fine; he would not need it for that test. But he might need it for the next test.

But if he never ends up using over a school year, he will risk losing the accommodation. I do worry about that a bit.

[Storygirl]

I hope it goes well!  🙂

[Pen]

https://www.additudemag.com/treatment/b-calm/

(headphones) 

[Lecka]

For that wording about the testing and then observations, for handwriting, my opinion is:  well you won’t get OT with an average test score!  But that is different than getting an accommodation of some kind.  

It doesn’t sound like he needs OT either, but — if they didn’t say that, how would people know?  

Edit:  I am sure this just depends on a lot of things, though.  Just my thought.  

Edit:  I mean I am optimistic about that, with the wording.  I read it more like “no OT, but let’s look at accommodations.”  But it’s totally a guess!  

Edited April 8, 2019 by Lecka

[Pen]

53 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

My other son, who has a 504 for anxiety, would shut down when stressed, and his brain would stop thinking, and he just could do nothing. When we wrote his 504, his teacher wanted him to have the extra time for tests, not because he always needed it every time, but so that if he shuts down and needs 15 minutes to regroup and be able to continue, he can still finish the test.

So there are times when he would not use the extra time, and it would be fine; he would not need it for that test. But he might need it for the next test.

But if he never ends up using over a school year, he will risk losing the accommodation. I do worry about that a bit.

 

Argument could be made that just knowing it is possible to do that itself reduces anxiety.  

[Lecka]

That is a good point.  

[Lecka]

This is very picky of me, but as far as the “test score didn’t change with ADHD medication,” I think if he has been on medication a short time they might bring up maybe looking at the dosage.  If they are like — “honestly we would expect a change with the medication if it were at an effective dosage.”  They could also think they don’t expect the score to change for — whatever reason.  I don’t think it’s automatic they agree with you on that.

I think you are stronger with your observations.  

Just my opinion though.  I am just chatting here.  

Edit:  I mean they might not agree about that reasoning, but have the same conclusion because of the observations.  

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Lecka

[Pen]

59 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

I think you have a good list of things to ask for.

A couple of comments. They will not give you the entire list, just because you ask. Some things they may automatically agree to. Other things they will want to discuss, and they will want to know that there is a demonstration of need.

Yes, I agree with Lecka that our schools have wanted it to be "preferential seating" not seating in the front. Also, know that they will take the child's opinion into consideration. So if he is entitled to sit in a certain place, but he does not want to, they will not make him.

The testing in a quiet room accommodation for us has always included an adult proctor in the room and can include other children. It is not guarantee the child will be in the room alone. Sometimes my son finds that the other kids who are in the quiet room are the same kids who are distracting to him, so even if he is allowed to go in the quiet room, sometimes he does not want to. The teachers will not make him go if he does not want to. But he is in middle school now. In earlier years, he did not have as much of a choice, and it was more, "come with me for the test," from the aide or intervention teacher.

Perhaps they will allow ear plugs. Haven't asked for that one. I suspect they may not allow music, because they will be not able to monitor what he is actually hearing through the earphones.

If he is a kid that fidgets, you can also ask that he be allowed to use a teacher-approved fidget, like a Koosh ball. Or chew gum or have hard candy like a peppermint.

Because they think his writing and handwriting is on grade level, I think the writing accommodations you are asking for are the iffiest. I think they may be appropriate, but I also think they may say that he doesn't need them. So I would take whatever samples and evidence you might have. For example, something he wrote by hand versus something he typed. Or a worksheet or study guide that he filled in in a wonky way, showing that he can't do it well enough to get the information he needs onto the paper in the time allowed.

Also, here there is a distinction on the document for what is allowed in class and what is allowed for standardized testing. They do not have all options open for standardized testing, because what is allowed may be determined by the state. So they may say, "no, the state does not allow that."

 

He won’t need it for state standardized testing.  

He’ll score high without it.  

 

Maybe it can be specified that he needs it for his more advancedcclasses like do be able to do pre-Algebra as a 4th grader. Because he is ready for that level of input, but only writes at an average 10 year old speed, not as well as 6th or 7th graders more often at prealgebra level.  

 

59 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

Also, in our state, they have a kind of new thing where if the student does not USE the accommodation in class, they will not allow them to use it for testing. DS does not use all of his allowed accommodations, and we know he may eventually lose the right to use them. So we encourage him to use them, whether he needs them or not.

Be aware that kids who get an extra time accommodation do not always know how to use it. They may still rush through and finish quickly and not use the extra time. So if he gets that accommodation, you might discuss or practice what he should do if he finishes and finds he has time left.

That’s very true.

59 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

 

Sometimes states or schools have restrictions about how much extra time can be had. I don't remember what you are asking for, but they might grant time and a half but not double time, for example.

DS does have in his IEP to have assignments shortened if needed. He has extra time to complete classroom assignments, as well. There are cons to these choices, just so you know. Sometimes the student does not master the material as well if assignments are shortened (this may not apply to your son, but I am mentioning it, just in case). And if my son were to take extra time for all of his assignments, he would quickly fall behind the pace of the class. In his case, it is kind of a fall-back safety provision, where if he does not complete a certain something on time, he will not be penalized for lateness.

 

 

This is where I thought extra time for assignments is likely to be a problem.  If he needs time and a half for tests that can work.  But time and a half for assignments will mean he can’t do the class in the semester or quarter it happens in.  

If he w

[Lecka]

Seriously at this age I would just opt out of standardized testing.  

I think you have got good things going for you!  

And he already qualifies for CTY, so that is a non-issue as far as I know.  

At the same time — why not do standardized testing if you want to do it, it doesn’t seem like it has been a problem for him — he has not had anxiety with it.  

It’s just not the same consideration as for an older student, as far as needing to participate in standardized testing for various reasons.  

[Lecka]

Really — I think he has a lot of opportunities already, you sound like savvy parents and he lives in an area with lots of good options.  He already can go to an AOPS campus.  I think it is reasonable to say you would get a low ROI for Davidson.  You sound like savvy people who can continue to help him as you have been.  

I’m sure it doesn’t feel like that, but it seems that way from my outside perspective.  

Edit:  I think the summer camps sound great, and that living in the boat and 5th-wheel sound like they are working out great, too.  Honestly — I think you guys are doing a great job, and don’t need to worry about competing or him missing out.  He sounds lovely and like he is having an idyllic upbringing.  

Edited April 8, 2019 by Lecka

[Pen]

I would not try to argue what might have happened on testing if ____

 

I’d just take that he is average or slightly below average in speed which would be fine if he were only needing to complete basic decimals assignments or whatever is in 4th grade.  But that since he’s mastered up to pre Algebra , he needs accommodations to allow him to do output as needed by a 10 yo —and particularly a 10 yo who has adhd and delayed physical development— in prealgebra.  

To me, that seems reasonable and clear as a matter of the facts of his life.  

And I think that would be met at our public schools where they have almost all math levels at same time so kids go to whatever class they need regardless of age / grade.

[SeaConquest]

So, the IEP meeting just finished. 2.5 hours! I agreed that he did not need an IEP -- hopefully that was not a mistake -- and they are referring our recommendations to their 504 team. Our recommendations were basically everything that I asked for, plus a few more of their suggestions. So, as long as he gets a 504 plan reasonably resembling what we discussed, I think it should really help him. Everyone was very helpful and I feel pretty satisfied about how things turned out, but you never know. Hopefully, I didn't muff it up. GAI score came back at 136. 99%, but still not Davidson material. Lol. Ah well -- I was just hoping he might make more friends through them. 

Thank you all so much for all of the guidance and advice. It was such a huge help to me! ❤️  

[Lecka]

That sounds great!

I wondered if he might get a 504.  My understanding is if you just have accommodations, a 504 is completely fine.  If you needed a service like OT or speech therapy, you would need an IEP.  I don’t have any first-hand experience with that, though.

I would guess the 504 team will just make sure the formatting and wording are the way they want them, but basically keep everything.  It is how it comes across to me.

I’m glad it went well!

[Pen]

I agree that it sounds like it went great!  My Ds has had IEP for services for speech therapy and for dysgraphia. Ending when he no longer needed services.  (He doesn’t currently have a 504 either).  I agree that  if no services are needed only some accommodations then 504 is right thing.  No muff up.  

[Pen]

If you think Davidson would help him, I suggest that you go ahead and apply.  Or call and discuss with them the situation where there’s a high score of 155 though other scores much lower and see what’s possible — application by portfolio? 

 

I wonder if a deeper friendship issue would be that where you are there aren’t a lot of other long term residents?  At least I guess he gets playmates passing through.

[SeaConquest]

10 hours ago, Pen said:

If you think Davidson would help him, I suggest that you go ahead and apply.  Or call and discuss with them the situation where there’s a high score of 155 though other scores much lower and see what’s possible — application by portfolio? 

 

I wonder if a deeper friendship issue would be that where you are there aren’t a lot of other long term residents?  At least I guess he gets playmates passing through.

 

Perhaps, though, like I said, in our old house, the neighborhood kids were so scheduled, you never saw them either.

I'm not sure that Davidson would help him and don't really think he is PG, so I won't bother with a portfolio. We are off to take the PSAT 8/9 this morning. He is pretty chill about it, so that's good.

Edited April 10, 2019 by SeaConquest

[Lecka]

For my older son who is 13 now (almost 14), I think it’s only since he was 11-12 that he had friends beyond the kids he would see regularly.  It always worried me, but now he has more solid friendships and has found more kids with similar interests.

I think it is good to look but I think that he hasn’t yet is maybe par for the course?  My daughter at 10 has friends that go beyond who she happens to be around, but also, are still based a lot on who she happens to be around.  

My 13yo son definitely has deeper and steadier friendships than she does right now.  

But she has more at 10 than my older son did when he was 10.  

So some encouragement 🙂

[Lawyer&Mom]

You guys have a skateboard park, basketball court, three swimming pools *and* the beach!?!  Sounds like an amazing place to be a kid. 

[SeaConquest]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

For my older son who is 13 now (almost 14), I think it’s only since he was 11-12 that he had friends beyond the kids he would see regularly.  It always worried me, but now he has more solid friendships and has found more kids with similar interests.

I think it is good to look but I think that he hasn’t yet is maybe par for the course?  My daughter at 10 has friends that go beyond who she happens to be around, but also, are still based a lot on who she happens to be around.  

My 13yo son definitely has deeper and steadier friendships than she does right now.  

But she has more at 10 than my older son did when he was 10.  

So some encouragement 🙂

 

Thank you for the encouragement. He does have lots of friends -- steady friends that he has had for years, many of whom he has known since kinder at his charter school. One of his best friends is a girl with whom he went to preschool. He tries to see her a couple of times per month (she is in public school and was grade skipped). But, I was talking about neighborhood kids that he could play with almost everyday. I think part of it just being a homeschooler and not having the built-in neighborhood kid friendships.

Edited April 10, 2019 by SeaConquest

[SeaConquest]

40 minutes ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

You guys have a skateboard park, basketball court, three swimming pools *and* the beach!?!  Sounds like an amazing place to be a kid. 

 

Yes, it is pretty cool. They also have an old school videogame arcade with ping pong, etc., a cantina (restaurant/bar) and ice cream shop (which is where we do science with our friends), a playground with jungle gym and swings, a huge field where they play soccer and capture the flag, dodgeball everyday at 330, a dedicated recreation counselor who oversees all the activities for the kids, bands that come in on weekends and regular Campland parties, beach volleyball, a horseshoe pit, a dive platform out in the water, lots of kayaks, SUPs, and other water toys, a free shuttle that will take them to Sea World, Old Town, Balboa Park, and other tourist destinations, a bike path that takes them all around Mission Bay (so no riding in traffic), and soon to be walking distance to the new trolley station that will take them directly to UCSD and SDSU (so no need to even drive to DE).

I mean, it's not my thing, but the RV isn't terrible. Another FT family has the same one as us, if you are curious:

 

[Lecka]

On the whole I think he is about to be old enough that he wouldn’t have neighborhood friendships like that anyway.  And if he did, it would be someone he would be friends with anyway.  

I went from being jealous of neighborhood friendships (no boys the right age for my oldest son in our neighborhood) to hearing of hurt feelings as kids wanted to do things with other friends more than neighborhood friends.  

I think when it works out it is great, but it is not that common to me to know a lot of people whose kids have special, long-lasting neighborhood friendships, and I think a lot of luck is involved.  

 

[SeaConquest]

If I was to speculate as to what happened with the friendship with the kid at our campground (who also goes to S's charter school), I think there were a couple of issues: 

1) The kid (we will call him D) is a year older than S, and is in 5th grade now. D has an older sister who decided to stop homeschooling and is now going to our neighborhood middle school, so puberty age for her. Older sister got heavily into K-pop and other middle school girl things, which I think influenced D to act/feel somewhat older that his 5th grade age. 

2) S has been playing a lot with his 5 year old younger brother R, which is pulling S to act/feel somewhat younger. They play a lot of little boy imaginary games (dragons, swords, quests, etc.) and, even though I am lenient re screen time, I wasn't allowing S to play some of the more violent video games that D was playing at his home.

3) D and older sister went with the parents to Europe last summer (we all leave the campground every summer), so when they returned to Campland in September, from D's perspective, there was just this huge emotional/maturity disparity between S and D.

Nevertheless, I feel like the parents handled it all wrong. These are kids that had been friends since they were 3. IMO, you don't just cut somebody out of your life for good when you live next door to them and go to school with them everyday unless that person has done something BAD. And that wasn't the case. You can grow apart and choose to spend less time with each other, sure. You can start to hang out with different people, expand your circle of friends, etc. But, to just end the friendship cold turkey is cruel. There's really no other word for it IMO. And, for the parents to allow that, nay to really encourage that to happen to my kid, to knowingly cause him so much pain, well, I think the parents are a-holes, to be honest. The other homeschool families at our charter watched the whole thing go down and they couldn't figure out WTF happened either because it was so bizarre. So, the general consensus is that that D's family handled it poorly and now we just basically try to pretend that they don't exist, which is super hard for poor S because they sing in the choir together, went to astrocamp together, live in the same place, etc. It's just AWKWARD. 

[Terabith]

2 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

 

Yes, it is pretty cool. They also have an old school videogame arcade with ping pong, etc., a cantina (restaurant/bar) and ice cream shop (which is where we do science with our friends), a playground with jungle gym and swings, a huge field where they play soccer and capture the flag, dodgeball everyday at 330, a dedicated recreation counselor who oversees all the activities for the kids, bands that come in on weekends and regular Campland parties, beach volleyball, a horseshoe pit, a dive platform out in the water, lots of kayaks, SUPs, and other water toys, a free shuttle that will take them to Sea World, Old Town, Balboa Park, and other tourist destinations, a bike path that takes them all around Mission Bay (so no riding in traffic), and soon to be walking distance to the new trolley station that will take them directly to UCSD and SDSU (so no need to even drive to DE).

I mean, it's not my thing, but the RV isn't terrible. Another FT family has the same one as us, if you are curious:

 

Okay, this sounds amazing!  I want to move there now!

[SeaConquest]

17 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Okay, this sounds amazing!  I want to move there now!

 

It's pretty cool for the boys. They like that they have free range within the campground as long as they follow our few safety rules. And the rangers know all the kids and patrol all around (mostly to keep adults in line). It's rare to find a campground like this in the middle of a city -- not to mention steps from the beach -- so it's nice to kinda have the best of both worlds. And I have a dishwasher and washer/dryer etc, so it's not like I'm roughing it. 😉

[Lecka]

That is sad about your neighbor’s kid.  I am sorry to say that sounds like stuff I heard about in my former town!  It would be in neighborhoods where we just could not quite afford them but they seemed amazing until kids got to be in 4th-5th, and then all of a sudden there seemed to be  things like this.  

 

[Pen]

Heartland Gateway is the name of the RV?

how is it from POV of out gassing formaldehyde and the like?

[Pen]

2 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

If I was to speculate as to what happened with the friendship with the kid at our campground (who also goes to S's charter school), I think there were a couple of issues: 

1) The kid (we will call him D) is a year older than S, and is in 5th grade now. D has an older sister who decided to stop homeschooling and is now going to our neighborhood middle school, so puberty age for her. Older sister got heavily into K-pop and other middle school girl things, which I think influenced D to act/feel somewhat older that his 5th grade age. 

2) S has been playing a lot with his 5 year old younger brother R, which is pulling S to act/feel somewhat younger. They play a lot of little boy imaginary games (dragons, swords, quests, etc.) and, even though I am lenient re screen time, I wasn't allowing S to play some of the more violent video games that D was playing at his home.

3) D and older sister went with the parents to Europe last summer (we all leave the campground every summer), so when they returned to Campland in September, from D's perspective, there was just this huge emotional/maturity disparity between S and D.

Nevertheless, I feel like the parents handled it all wrong. These are kids that had been friends since they were 3. IMO, you don't just cut somebody out of your life for good when you live next door to them and go to school with them everyday unless that person has done something BAD. And that wasn't the case. You can grow apart and choose to spend less time with each other, sure. You can start to hang out with different people, expand your circle of friends, etc. But, to just end the friendship cold turkey is cruel. There's really no other word for it IMO. And, for the parents to allow that, nay to really encourage that to happen to my kid, to knowingly cause him so much pain, well, I think the parents are a-holes, to be honest. The other homeschool families at our charter watched the whole thing go down and they couldn't figure out WTF happened either because it was so bizarre. So, the general consensus is that that D's family handled it poorly and now we just basically try to pretend that they don't exist, which is super hard for poor S because they sing in the choir together, went to astrocamp together, live in the same place, etc. It's just AWKWARD. 

 

The age/stage issue makes some sense, and maybe it’s increased not just by siblings and Europe, but also sacha being delayed in maturation physically.  My Ds was behind in things like teeth loss and around a year behind in other ways (physically) which I think affects hormones and thus also emotions too.

 

Are you sure though that there’s no ______-ism going on (race, religion, nowadays maybe even political difference, or someone discovered they’re Hadleys and you’re McCoys or equivalent thereof) behind the friendship break? Something more fundamentally actually at the parent level, not the boy?

ETA: specifically I’d wonder about antisemitism type problems etc at this time.  Or perhaps liberal vs conservative ideology...

Edited April 10, 2019 by Pen

[SeaConquest]

15 minutes ago, Pen said:

Heartland Gateway is the name of the RV?

how is it from POV of out gassing formaldehyde and the like?

 

Yes, Heartland Gateway. I have no idea about any offgassing, but I haven't noticed any weird smells. This is our third season here.

[SeaConquest]

3 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

The age/stage issue makes some sense, and maybe it’s increased not just by siblings and Europe, but also lS being delayed in maturation physically.  My Ds was behind in things like teeth loss and around a year behind in other ways which I think affects hormones and thus also emotions too.

 

Are you sure though that there’s no ______-ism going on (race, religion, nowadays maybe even political difference, or someone discovered they’re Hadleys and you’re McCoys or equivalent thereof) behind the friendship break? Something more fundamentally actually at the parent level, not the boy?

 

I don't know. We were friends with the parents as well. They actually gave us the idea to move into the RV and move to Campland. I didn't even know this place was here until we came to visit them. We lived very close to their old house when we lived up the hill. So when they moved to the RV, we came to visit them here and I was just amazed at this place -- it was like kid heaven. Meanwhile, our HOA had so many restrictions, the kids couldn't do anything. When I told my husband that I wanted to move to Campland, he thought I was joking, but we did it shortly after they did. And the boys were so happy for two years here, doing everything together. The whole thing was just weird. Weird and inexplicably sad.

[Lecka]

Honestly I have had my daughter decide she wants to be rude to some child she suddenly thinks she is too old to play with, and at her current age, I don’t allow it and I am able to not allow it.  There are things where she has a choice and then there are things where she does not have a choice.  Really she has a choice about a lot!

But I think it can just be kids wanting to be this way.  It is very immature and I think it could pass in 1-2 months a lot of the time, or there could just be a shift in how often they did things together.

But I think some parents are too far on the other side with not wanting to ever make their kids do something they don’t want to do or control them. 

To me this is not too controlling in parenting a 5th grader! 

But I have seen it be this way.  

I have also seen things seem too far on the side of older kids forced to invite children of their parents’ friends to the point it seems excessive that way.  

But I think there is such a wide middle ground that works out!

And it is SO shortsighted when maybe in a year he would be very interested again because your son would be that year older and more mature.

Parents are supposed to take the long way that way, when kids can’t really be expected to have that perspective.  

[Lecka]

You know I think it is not worth examining their inferior lives too much.  It sounds too bad though.  I wonder if they have a history in their lives of doing this though, some people do.  Just to say — I think it’s very possible it has nothing to do with you guys and they just have some weird thing, whatever it is.  

[Arcadia]

48 minutes ago, Pen said:

Are you sure though that there’s no ______-ism going on (race, religion, nowadays maybe even political difference, or someone discovered they’re Hadleys and you’re McCoys or equivalent thereof) behind the friendship break? Something more fundamentally actually at the parent level, not the boy?

 

After seeing plenty of drama locally with 4th grade and up girls, maybe the parents and kid think that a clean break is more polite than “stringing” someone along when the friendship is no longer “in season”. 

For example I have a mom friend (not very close) who stop interacting after three years when her child is no longer in the same class as my kid. I prefer that to a friend sending me courtesy keep in touch kind of messages.

ETA:

I mean sometimes there is no rhyme or reason. Kids that have been classmates and best friends from K-5th (elementary school) stopped being friends in 6th grade (middle school).

Edited April 10, 2019 by Arcadia

[SeaConquest]

7 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Honestly I have had my daughter decide she wants to be rude to some child she suddenly thinks she is too old to play with, and at her current age, I don’t allow it and I am able to not allow it.  There are things where she has a choice and then there are things where she does not have a choice.  Really she has a choice about a lot!

But I think it can just be kids wanting to be this way.  It is very immature and I think it could pass in 1-2 months a lot of the time, or there could just be a shift in how often they did things together.

But I think some parents are too far on the other side with not wanting to ever make their kids do something they don’t want to do or control them. 

To me this is not too controlling in parenting a 5th grader! 

But I have seen it be this way.  

I have also seen things seem too far on the side of older kids forced to invite children of their parents’ friends to the point it seems excessive that way.  

But I think there is such a wide middle ground that works out!

And it is SO shortsighted when maybe in a year he would be very interested again because your son would be that year older and more mature.

Parents are supposed to take the long way that way, when kids can’t really be expected to have that perspective.  

 

Right, like that's the thing. Generally, I am in favor of letting them work it out. If my kid is too immature for him, let him communicate that and him and my kid work it out. But, the parents got involved and basically said that the kid wanted to end the friendship. And my husband made it clear that if they did this to my kid, there was no going back a year from now when their son inevitably changed his mind, like you said. When kids are left alone, friendships often move in and out, and kids learn how to navigate those situations. 

 

 

[SeaConquest]

6 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

After seeing plenty of drama locally with 4th grade and up girls, maybe the parents and kid think that a clean break is more polite than “stringing” someone along when the friendship is no longer “in season”. 

For example I have a mom friend (not very close) who stop interacting after three years when her child is no longer in the same class as my kid. I prefer that to a friend sending me courtesy keep in touch kind of messages.

 

But, this was basically his best friend. Someone he was with regularly where he lives and at school, that he had known for 5+ years, and had no reason to suspect would end the friendship because he'd done nothing wrong, no argument, etc. So, it was very sudden and shocking for him.

[Arcadia]

43 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 But, the parents got involved and basically said that the kid wanted to end the friendship. And my husband made it clear that if they did this to my kid, there was no going back a year from now when their son inevitably changed his mind, like you said. 

 

That’s weird that the parents are the messenger of friendship termination at that boy’s age. Usually kids that age if they don’t want to say something direct would just quietly drift away. Parents usually say something if there is bullying or roughhousing involved and they want to let the other parent know why. 

Maybe their son wants to be friends in the future, maybe not. If parents were the messenger, it’s hard to know who call off the friendship; the kid or the parent.

Not related to your kid’s friendship with their son, could the parents be seeing themselves as brick and mortar public school kids parents and no longer as public charter school parents. Maybe they think their kids should be socializing more with their schoolmates. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, SeaConquest said:

 

Right, like that's the thing. Generally, I am in favor of letting them work it out. If my kid is too immature for him, let him communicate that and him and my kid work it out. But, the parents got involved and basically said that the kid wanted to end the friendship.

 

Parents got involved After kid himself already had told your Ds he didn’t want to be  friends any longer? 

 

[Storygirl]

That's really sad about the friendship. My girls have both had friendship hurts, where good friends turn against them unexpectedly, though, for them, it happened during the middle school ages. Because S's friend has an older sister, he may have seen some behaviors modeled and picked up on them.

I hope that he makes some more good friends soon.

Your RV park sounds so awesome. I would hate living in an RV, but the rest sounds perfect!!! I wish we had that kind of neighborhood around us.

[Lawyer&Mom]

I watched the entire RV tour, and have to say I’m impressed with the layout and use of space with that model.  The bunk room in particular looked great for kids.  (Separate bathroom!)

I know you have to embrace minimalism to live in such a small space, but please tell me you guys have more books!

The whole thing had me really missing my old 2bd 900 square foot condo...  Unfortunately, my Dh is a collector, and came with serious *stuff*...

[Pen]

Another RV life question— when you move to boat for summer, if I understand that right, where does the RV go?  

And have you had problems with water build up in hold below or whatever was going on in one of those videos?  

[SeaConquest]

3 hours ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

I watched the entire RV tour, and have to say I’m impressed with the layout and use of space with that model.  The bunk room in particular looked great for kids.  (Separate bathroom!)

I know you have to embrace minimalism to live in such a small space, but please tell me you guys have more books!

The whole thing had me really missing my old 2bd 900 square foot condo...  Unfortunately, my Dh is a collector, and came with serious *stuff*...

 

Their model is actually older than ours, so there are some differences: 

We have a king bed, a washer/dryer, a dishwasher, stainless appliances, and nicer finishings (nicer lights, a sprayer sink, stuff like that). You cannot tell in the video, but there is actually a bathtub and the RV has very high ceilings everywhere except that master bedroom, so you don't feel closed in.

The patio provides tons of natural light. I have a flower/herb garden hanging from the railings and we have a gas patio heater outside with some comfy zero gravity lounge chairs from Costco, so we can enjoy our view of the water year-round. 

Ours has a TV in the master bedroom and a much larger TV in the kids room where they play video games. Yes, that is 4 TVs!

We kept the couch that came below the bunk because the kids hang out there (the bed goes up), and the couch folds out into a bed for sleepovers.

We have tons of books all along the back wall of the boys room, make copious use of the library and our charter school resource center, and they listen to lots of audiobooks.

Where they have that little couch in the entry and their essential oils, we ripped out the couch and turned that into a desk area with storage for school stuff and board games, and a faux fireplace heater where the oils were above the desk. 

But yes, the RV and the boat both hold a ton of stuff. We also have an enormous underbelly for storage, a 300 sq feet storage space, and our actual business location.

I really wanted a 45 foot toy hauler that was even cooler than this model (it had two patios -- a side patio and a back patio), but we would have had to get a dually truck to tow it and my husband didn't want to get that as a daily driver in SD. It was also going to be 30k more expensive (plus another 15k more for the dually), so we compromised on this model. Man, that toy hauler was cool though.  

The issue they were having with the water was (as I recall) because their little girl flooded their back bathroom. I think she left the faucet on and it flooded the whole place or something. I only vaguely recall what happened, but no, no water issues for us.

In the summer time, we generally take the RV either to the repair shop with a punch list of things to fix and tell them to give it back to us at the end of the summer (they are happy not to have to fix it in a rush) or we park it at a friend's house who has some land (about 45 mins outside of downtown SD). Other people from Campland just go to RV parks that have summer monthly rates and then come back in September. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by SeaConquest

[SeaConquest]

This is like the one I would have bought:

 

[Lawyer&Mom]

Extra book shelves!  yay!

The desk for the second couch is a great idea.  That little bar area just isn’t enough horizontal space!