foreign languages and dyslexia

[caedmyn]

What programs have you successfully used to teach a dyslexic child (12 YO) a foreign language?  DD is doing Spanish this year with Getting Started with Spanish which is very incremental (one new word or concept per day), but she is getting overwhelmed and not remembering stuff from day to day.  I don't know if she needs something easier, or more colorful, or more auditory based, or ...??

[Storygirl]

People with dyslexia can have a lot of trouble learning a foreign language. Is there a reason she has to do it in seventh grade? Or even at all? DD13 has dyslexia and attends a private dyslexia school. They don't offer foreign language at all, even in the high school. In our state, it's an elective, not a graduation requirement, and the school has decided it's not the right choice for the majority of their students.

DS14 has a different kind of reading disability and will attend our public high school. They say he does not need to take foreign language there, either.

My oldest (not dyslexic) used Getting Started with Spanish in 8th grade, and DH, who took Spanish in high school, helped her. DD16 has continued to study Spanish in high school, but GSWS didn't replace Spanish 1 for her; she still took Spanish 1 her freshman year. If there is a reason that a foreign language is mandatory for your daughter, it's not a terrible idea to use something as an intro course in middle school, so that there will be a foundation for starting with Spanish 1 in high school.

I hope someone else has an idea of another program to try. If you stick with GSWS (or even if you try a different one), you may need to do it with her, instead of expecting independent study, or hire a tutor, and perhaps slow down the pace and add a lot of extra review and practice. I think an auditory component would likely help and would not expect her to be able to learn a foreign language by reading a text about it. Can you or your husband speak Spanish?

[Heathermomster]

Vocab is my son’s superpower, so he took Abeka HS Spanish with a native speaker in 10th grade.  It sucked.  He spent 2 hours per day outside of the class completing the homework.  He earned an A in the class but retained none of it.  We should have gone the total conversational route.  Spanish is one of my greater high school regrets.  

In my state, the tech diploma route replaces foreign language with two successive technical classes, so DS completed 2 years of Autocad (Drafting 1 and Drafting 2).  I should have just skipped it all together and pursued more writing and rhetoric.  

Edited November 9, 2018 by Heathermomster

[FairProspects]

So my oldest 2E dyslexic has always been super interested in foreign language and linguistics. I mostly put off foreign language with him though because I wanted to strengthen his English skills (grammar, spelling, vocabulary, etc.) as the main priority. We did a bit of Latin & Latin roots for fun in elementary, but once he went to private school, I opted him out of their foreign language component for two years. This year, 8th grade, he told me he really wanted to take German. We discussed that it would likely be more work for him than the average student and that he would have to keep up with high school level pacing (slow processing speed can really bog him down depending on topic). He said he was interested enough to put in all the work and extra time so I enrolled him in WTMA German 1.

He has a 96%!! I have done virtually nothing with him on this class other than make sure he writes the due dates in his planner. I haven't informed the instructor that he is dyslexic, and the workload has not been an issue for him. He says it is his favorite class this year. He did say that ALL the grammar I drilled into him over the years has been invaluable for German and he is grateful we did so much grammar and skill work early on, even though it was challenging for him.

All to say, I would do exactly what I have done all over again if I could. I would wait on foreign language, strengthen the English weaknesses, and start a foreign language of interest around 8th grade or early high school. I may even go the Latin or ASL route with my 2nd, depending on his interest. Interest in the topic is so important and can make up for a lot of weaknesses, but I definitely wouldn't stress about foreign language and dyslexia. English is THE priority.

[PeterPan]

On November 7, 2018 at 12:35 AM, Heathermomster said:

 We should have gone the total conversational route.

Bingo. Have you heard Pudewa's recommendation that people screw high school language study altogether and just ship their kid off to a foreign country for a summer? LOL In certain cases, it would be more effective.

As far as conversational approaches, really those will depend on the processing speed and overall situation of the dc. My dd (not dyslexic) totally clammed up and couldn't do conversation. Awful, awful, awful. But we have the scores showing her clinically poor word retrieval and low processing speed, sigh. 

Since you (op) know it's a disability area (even if it rocks for other kids), my two cents, having slogged through it with dd, is to wait until her last year or two of high school to give her the MOST TIME to be mature, have her study skills in place, etc. We started my dd's freshman year, and it really did suck so much time, like what Heathermomster is saying. My theory was right on how to approach it and why, but her MATURITY wasn't there to tell herself to do what needed to be done. If you research language and dyslexics, they're saying to drop the credit hours and use multi-sensory. So she needed to read it aloud, use it, talk it, and she wouldn't make herself do that. That's her fault, but she was also just a really omniscient 14 yo. LOL 

You might think about what would give her the most bang for her buck right now. Of all the language things you can be doing, what would make the biggest difference? https://rise.serpmedia.org This test is only $5 to administer, takes about an hour, and it gives you breakdowns in 6 areas to know what is most affecting her reading comprehension. That might give you data to then say ok we're going to focus on morphology or syntax (grammar) or vocabulary or... 

You might conclude that working on a foreign language would be a way to work on those areas. Lots of people do languages to work on roots (morphology) and some people will do latin to address syntax (grammar). Or you might decide to work on those things directly and not fiddle with the foreign language.

 

[FairProspects]

13 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Since you (op) know it's a disability area (even if it rocks for other kids), my two cents, having slogged through it with dd, is to wait until her last year or two of high school to give her the MOST TIME to be mature, have her study skills in place, etc.

 

And I guess I would say we prefer the opposite approach. Sure, I think it is wise to have the study skills in place or scaffold them like crazy for kids who need help with executive function, but from my perspective, if something required is going to take oodles of time and effort, I'd rather have my kids do that in grades 8-10. This way, by the time they are sick of the effort and burning out on it, you can drop the foreign language and focus much more time on areas of interest and strengths. I just think that creates more motivation knowing you will have loads of time freed up to do something you love, but maybe that's just my planning for ds. I dropped math my senior year and the relief for me to take extra performing arts credits was incredibly motivating. Plus, it seems like there are so many time intensive activities and options as high school ramps up towards graduation.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, FairProspects said:

Plus, it seems like there are so many time intensive activities and options as high school ramps up towards graduation.

Yeah, that's true too. And it's true what I'm saying to do is not what I did, lol. I was told that by other people (wait) and I didn't. What I identify with though is Heathermomster's comment that the success we had was at very HIGH COST. 

Dd has to take a foreign language for her college degree, and we had totally hoped to avoid it. I had wanted her to do the 2-3 years in high school, CLEP, and be out of it entirely. She couldn't quite get there, and so now she's in this pickle. I think, like you're saying, that college will be the same way with those last 2 years being very valuable time that we'll wish she wasn't wasting on spanish, sigh. She just has to get the credits and get through it without destroying her GPA and losing her scholarship. 

The irony is that if we had waited till later in high school, she might have been able to do it as DE and just gotten credit for it. Then she wouldn't be wasting, utterly wasting, time in college on it. 

[4KookieKids]

My dyslexic dd7 is currently Learbing German and told me just this morning that she prefers reading in German. I think part of it is that her German comprehension is weaker than her English, so the gap between what she’s able to read and what she wants to read is much smaller than in english, where she’s listening to and enjoying 4-7th grade books but barely reading at all (disclaimer: she was raised bilingual, but her English is far stronger at this point). I also think she finds it easier because they start so basic:she’s halfway through the first grade workbook (we have school materials imported from a friend who works in ge school system in Germany), and they still have syllabification exercises several times a week. She loves how you learn a sound, and then spend ample time practicing it- writing it, identifying if it’s a beginning, middle, or end of year word sound, writing it some more, etc. there’s lots of pictures to color and stickers to stick in and lots and lots ornaments cursive writing with a nice fountain pen. So his is no help to the OP, but just an aside for anyone else who may be wondering about dyslexics with another language. Her dyslexia is still obvious in german- but it’s far less frustrating for her.

Edited November 9, 2018 by 4KookieKids

[Gil]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:54 PM, caedmyn said:

What programs have you successfully used to teach a dyslexic child (12 YO) a foreign language?  DD is doing Spanish this year with Getting Started with Spanish which is very incremental (one new word or concept per day), but she is getting overwhelmed and not remembering stuff from day to day.  I don't know if she needs something easier, or more colorful, or more auditory based, or ...??

I haven't taught a dyslexic child, but there are ton of audio-based, conversation focused programs. 

One of my biggest "If I could do it overs" is how soon and how often I tried to fit print into the Spanish equation at our house. Aside from learning Spanish phonics to sound out words, I wouldn't have wasted as much time and energy as I did in trying to get my kids to read with comprehension/write coherently in Spanish.

They aren't dyslexic, but without the language abilities to back it up, "reading"/"writing" was counter-productive in Spanish. My vote is "Focus on the aural and oral in as conversational and interactive manner as you can."

You can learn/master all of the written conventions that a 3rd year Spanish student would use in 1 year if you aren't juggling the aural and oral part at the same time.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Gil

[MysteryJen]

My dyslexic dd2 had to drop Spanish 2, after doing fine in Spanish 1 in ps high school. She absolutely could not keep up conversationally, even if she could learn a list of vocabulary. She is also a slow processor, but really it was dyslexia that presented the near impossibility of going farther down the foreign language path. She had Zero retention of Spanish 1.

Hard enough to spell and read in English, truly.

Also, I want to chime in that the last two years of high school are hard. She is taking two AP courses (no more honors available-just AP) and has to spend a huge, huge amount of time with those. Time is limited and I think it is not good for her to always be working at the very tip-top of her abilities. Teens need time to just be and learn some life balance, too. For us, that means no FL, a few regular classes even when she "could" take AP and a lighter schedule than some of her friends.

[PeterPan]

Total aside, but it might fit the op's situation. My very ADHD dd found online AP classes a total ADHD nightmare. She was fine with DE. We did a lot ourselves, our own way, just pursuing unique things.

[Condessa]

My dyslexic daughter is younger, but she is learning German.  Her tutor is using a program called Hallo Anna with her and doesn’t require any independent reading or writing.  And because she is a class of one, she doesn’t know how slow her rate of learning is, so she is enjoying it a lot.  The plan is, when she has been learning German for 1.5 or 2 years, and is more secure in her English reading, to start on working on reading in German.

[Lecka]

Quote

Also, I want to chime in that the last two years of high school are hard. She is taking two AP courses (no more honors available-just AP) and has to spend a huge, huge amount of time with those. Time is limited and I think it is not good for her to always be working at the very tip-top of her abilities. Teens need time to just be and learn some life balance, too. For us, that means no FL, a few regular classes even when she "could" take AP and a lighter schedule than some of her friends.

 

This is how we are looking at things for our oldest son.  I have also seen with him, that he feels a lot better about himself when he is able to keep up without too much of a burden.  

[Matryoshka]

18 hours ago, MysteryJen said:

My dyslexic dd2 had to drop Spanish 2, after doing fine in Spanish 1 in ps high school. She absolutely could not keep up conversationally, even if she could learn a list of vocabulary. She is also a slow processor, but really it was dyslexia that presented the near impossibility of going farther down the foreign language path. She had Zero retention of Spanish 1.

Hard enough to spell and read in English, truly.

Spanish is much, much easier to read and spell than English.  It is close to 100% phonetic.  It even tells you where to put emphasis for syllabification.

I teach Spanish - I suspect a few of my students have some kind of dyslexia or at least need remediation in English reading.  With clear phonetic rules in Spanish, the kids actually have an easier time reading Spanish - there's one kid (high school aged) who another teacher told me couldn't read practically at all because of his difficulty in her English class, but I said that couldn't be true because he has no problem in Spanish.  Some of the younger kids I teach (8-13yo) also have problems, and I slow them down and have them sound out the Spanish one letter at a time - I think in English they have gotten very used to guessing.  I see them skipping over the middle of the words or ignoring the end sounds; having a language where every letter makes sense gets them in the habit of not guessing and paying attention to all the letters. There are also only 5 vowel sounds that always are the same in every word every time.  I've actually seen learning to read in Spanish helping their reading skills in English.  I guess it's kind of like some of the programs that use nonsense words, except the words aren't nonsense.

And there's always Chinese - I'm fairly sure I've read that it uses a different part of the brain to read than phonetically written languages as it's entirely pictorial.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Matryoshka