Unarmed security guard jobs for ds

[ktgrok]

32 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I’m still unclear as to why you thought anyone’s advice was potentially dangerous.

The most extreme suggestion was that Beth’s son should either get a part time job or return to school part time. 

You seem to be suggesting (please correct me if I’m misunderstanding you) that her son could become suicidal because of that kind of requirement. 

But Beth has insisted time and time again that her son is not depressed. She says he is happy. He has been successful at the college courses he took. He was successful at his job at Kroger. He seems to be doing fine as a volunteer.

I know your heart is in the right place, but I also feel like you may be trying to support a narrative that doesn’t exist in this situation. Beth’s own words have told us that her son is not depressed, so I think it’s a pretty big leap to suggest that he could become suicidal if he was given a choice between working part time and going to school part time. These aren’t particularly harsh suggestions.

What I find dangerous is the unspoken but hinted at "or what" that follows the idea of requiring something. You can physically force him to get a job. So require him to get a job or? Require him to go to school or ? What is the consequence? If there isn't one, it isn't a requirement.

Often, not saying you, but often people phrase this as "if you are going to live here, you need to be working or going to school". Well...that's a dangerous game to play with someone on the spectrum. Trust me when you have a young adult living at home and not in school and not working a paying job, you get that advice a lot. 

I also warned about damaging what seems to be the only real relationship this young man has, which is with his parents. He has no peers to turn to for mental or emotional support, currently has no counselor, no coworkers, nothing. So he NEEDS that relationship to be one he can turn to without feeling attacked. Which is difficult. 

[itsheresomewhere]

Personally,  I think this boy’s parents both don’t understand him nor can see the situation correctly.  I have a friend like that who really both parents could not see what their child needed.  They eventually did see that they were both not helping the child when the family therapist showed them.  The young man needs a new evaluation and both parents probably need a good therapist who is a specialist with ASD kids to fully get both parents on the same page to see who the young man is.   

Edited September 11, 2018 by itsheresomewhere

[unsinkable]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Again, I don't think anyone had a problem with any of the advice you shared. I know I didn't. 

I only responded, and yes, it was emotional, when some of the advice given by others was, I felt, potentially dangerous. Just as someone who offered medical advice to you, whiteout knowing about the ins and outs of epilepsy, might post potentially dangerous advice. Not out of malice, but ignorance to the intricacies of the subject at hand. And it wouldn't be out of line to label it as such. 

I'm sorry you don't feel you can share. Again, I had no issue with any advice you offered in this thread. 

I'd reply, but Quill told me to quit. That's a joke.

I'm tired, though, but I wanted to let you know I read this and thank you for your replies. 

[ktgrok]

Back to the OP, would he be willing to do some job shadowing?I set up that for my son today, he's off shadowing a vet tech. No commitment, could be for half a day ,or a full day, or even a few hours if that is all your son could handle in a new situation. But if he could shadow a few people maybe he'd have a better idea of what interests him? Any favors you could call in on that score? I asked my son for permission first, but ended up setting this up for him, via a former coworker. I wish he could have done that for himself, but right now he just can't. But once it was set up he DID get up on time and get dressed (even asked my opinion on which shirt to wear!) and go. It's the planning/executive function part that is the obstacle. 

I've been trying to get him to shadow a dog trainer as well, as I think he might like it, and it is a lucrative field, but again, he has not set anything up despite me sending him the contact info. I'm about to just set it up myself, and to hell with how bad it looks to the trainer. 

With my son, at least, he needs to experience something to know if he likes it. 

[ktgrok]

Just now, unsinkable said:

I'd reply, but Quill told me to quit. That's a joke.

I'm tired, though, but I wanted to let you know I read this and thank you for your replies. 

Thanks. I really did not mean to offend you, and have valued your friendship. 

Hugs. 

[Pen]

59 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

But Beth has insisted time and time again that her son is not depressed. She says he is happy. He has been successful at the college courses he took. He was successful at his job at Kroger. He seems to be doing fine as a volunteer.

 

Nonetheless, some of the descriptions sound like they could be depression related.  

Being by himself a lot playing computer games. Reluctance to get out and do things.  Nothing much seeming to interest and excite him   No college major seeming interesting     Close friends or other things that could help against depression possibly being absent or minimal  Not  yet finding a niche where he can be productive could itself cause some depression.

Night Elf said That there was a while at Kroger job when he seemed the happiest he had been since early childhood—but then he started not to feel happy in the job.  Which made it sound like happiness was rare in his life  

A lot of the description of him has sounded like he is alone and lonely—and not particularly happy. 

Sometimes if there is a longstanding depression , especially if mild or medium where there aren’t obvious outward signs, it may not be evident to people who are close to the person because they are used to that being the way PersonName always is, or usually is. 

[Catwoman]

32 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

What I find dangerous is the unspoken but hinted at "or what" that follows the idea of requiring something. You can physically force him to get a job. So require him to get a job or? Require him to go to school or ? What is the consequence? If there isn't one, it isn't a requirement.

Often, not saying you, but often people phrase this as "if you are going to live here, you need to be working or going to school". Well...that's a dangerous game to play with someone on the spectrum. Trust me when you have a young adult living at home and not in school and not working a paying job, you get that advice a lot. 

I also warned about damaging what seems to be the only real relationship this young man has, which is with his parents. He has no peers to turn to for mental or emotional support, currently has no counselor, no coworkers, nothing. So he NEEDS that relationship to be one he can turn to without feeling attacked. Which is difficult. 

 

Ok, that makes sense to me. Thanks for explaining. 

But my question is this... if Beth and her dh put no pressure at all on their son to work or go to school, what will happen when he’s 25 and 35 and 45 and he’s still sitting on the sofa playing video games? 

I’m not being snarky — it’s a genuine concern.

Right now, we see an established pattern of Beth posting a thread because she’s very worried and people giving her lots of ideas and advice about things like evaluations and counseling and possible career possibilities, and then she posts an encouraging update saying her son is going to apply for jobs and consider returning to school... and a few months later, she posts almost the exact same thread and we go through the same discussion again. 

How can we help her get out of this cycle? People have suggested evaluations, counseling, and therapy for her son, but none of that seems to happen. I’m not blaming Beth for that because obviously she can’t drag her son out to the car and make him do these things. But what can be done? I don’t have the answer to that.

[Catwoman]

8 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Nonetheless, some of the descriptions sound like they could be depression related.  

Being by himself a lot playing computer games. Reluctance to get out and do things.  Nothing much seeming to interest and excite him   No college major seeming interesting     Close friends or other things that could help against depression possibly being absent or minimal  Not  yet finding a niche where he can be productive could itself cause some depression.

Night Elf said That there was a while at Kroger job when he seemed the happiest he had been since early childhood—but then he started not to feel happy in the job.  Which made it sound like happiness was rare in his life  

A lot of the description of him has sounded like he is alone and lonely—and not particularly happy. 

Sometimes if there is a longstanding depression , especially if mild or medium where there aren’t obvious outward signs, it may not be evident to people who are close to the person because they are used to that being the way PersonName always is, or usually is. 

 

I’m not saying he isn’t depressed, but Beth seems sure he isn’t. I can honestly see it both ways. On one hand, depression makes sense, but on the other, this young man lives in a home with a mom who dotes on him and he can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants to do it, and he’s under no real pressure to change. He apparently loves playing video games, so that’s what he does. He may be an introvert and not care much about friendships outside of his own family. 

So basically, I don’t know what to think, so I tend to trust Beth’s instincts. She is the one who lives with him every day.

[sassenach]

I haven't read the thread, but I want to tell you about my brother. He's an aspie who kind of floated in and out of CC, then worked in food service for a long time- ice cream shop, restaurant bus boy, etc.. Then, out of the blue, he announces that he wants to become a truck driver. This is the kid who took 4 tries to pass his driver's test. It was honestly the last thing we imagined for him. So he goes on to put himself through school, get a job, and has now been happily driving for 4 years. He just turned 34, so this all started when he was 30ish.

So, all that to say, you never really know with an aspie. Sometimes they set their minds to something that seems like a bad fit and it turns out to be a great thing. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Ok, that makes sense to me. Thanks for explaining. 

But my question is this... if Beth and her dh put no pressure at all on their son to work or go to school, what will happen when he’s 25 and 35 and 45 and he’s still sitting on the sofa playing video games? 

I’m not being snarky — it’s a genuine concern.

Right now, we see an established pattern of Beth posting a thread because she’s very worried and people giving her lots of ideas and advice about things like evaluations and counseling and possible career possibilities, and then she posts an encouraging update saying her son is going to apply for jobs and consider returning to school... and a few months later, she posts almost the exact same thread and we go through the same discussion again. 

How can we help her get out of this cycle? People have suggested evaluations, counseling, and therapy for her son, but none of that seems to happen. I’m not blaming Beth for that because obviously she can’t drag her son out to the car and make him do these things. But what can be done? I don’t have the answer to that.

 

There is a limit to what we can do, as Internet friends.

Beth is on her own journey of learning how to succeed in the workforce. It may be too much for her to be the vocational counselor as well as the mother, cheerleader, advocate and friend, for someone else. That's why I agree with the many people who have suggested Voc Rehab and other organizations that will work directly with her ds, if he's willing to work with them.

What we can do for Beth is listen, offer personal and professional experience as we're able, and try to remember not to force people on the Internet to obey our wise advice instantly and (of course) report back with the (obvious) resultant success!

I'm not addressing that last bit to you, personally, Catwoman. I really do mean all of us have got to stop doing that.

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

These are not harsh suggestions for a neurotypical person, but I can assure you that, depending on the person, they can be harsh for some people with ASD. A lot of scaffolding is required, which is what Beth is working on. That's what she is talking about in this thread. This will be a slow process, not a fast one. Additionally, you are looking at only part of the story. He was successful at college - yet he left because it wasn't a good match and he was anxious and unhappy. He was successful at work - yet he left because he was stressed out over the work production needs and having to work too many (for him) hours. The needs of people with ASD are complex.

Those of us who know about adults with ASD know that the unemployment rate and the suicide rate is high. That is what Katie is commenting on, not just on Beth's particular situation. I've been the one who has had to call the police for a safety check - believe me the risk it isn't something we can take lightly. That's the type of information we live with. It is necessary for us to do a risk/benefit analysis for everything, and suicide, depression and chronic unemployment are real risks that are in the back of our minds for every change that happens in life. Katie is simply bringing those risks & fears into the conversation, as a response to my post about how those of us who have children with disabilities don't often talk about it because we are judged so harshly, and here you are telling her that her input isn't appropriate. Yet, it actually is very appropriate. My heart hurts for the parent of every child with a hidden disability when I hear or read dialogue like this. This is a conversation that needs to be had, and I think you are actually the one that is not understanding the narrative.

 

I’m not arguing about suicide rates. I’m simply saying that in this particular situation at this time with Beth’s son, suicide does not seem to be an issue. According to Beth, depression doesn’t even seem to be an issue. So I was basing my posts on Beth’s own statements. If her assessment of her son is inaccurate, obviously everything I have posted is inaccurate as well, and I acknowledge that.

I think we probably all agree that Beth’s son needs a thorough evaluation to try to find out what’s really going on (because right now, it appears that his original evaluation was mostly worthless,) and he needs therapy and counseling to help him move forward with his life. The problem is that these things have been suggested in thread after thread, and Beth’s son doesn’t seem amenable to them.

So what should Beth do? If you think I’m wrong about believing her son shouldn’t be sitting on the sofa all day playing video games, yet he also shouldn’t be under any pressure at all to do anything more productive, what do you think should happen? 

I really do respect both your opinions on this (and Katie’s, too,) so I’m wondering what you would do in Beth’s situation. You certainly have a tremendous amount of experience that I lack, and I would really like to know how you would handle it. Beth’s son is still only 22, but what if the years keep passing and he’s still sitting on that sofa? That’s what worries me.

 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Ok, that makes sense to me. Thanks for explaining. 

But my question is this... if Beth and her dh put no pressure at all on their son to work or go to school, what will happen when he’s 25 and 35 and 45 and he’s still sitting on the sofa playing video games? 

I’m not being snarky — it’s a genuine concern.

Right now, we see an established pattern of Beth posting a thread because she’s very worried and people giving her lots of ideas and advice about things like evaluations and counseling and possible career possibilities, and then she posts an encouraging update saying her son is going to apply for jobs and consider returning to school... and a few months later, she posts almost the exact same thread and we go through the same discussion again. 

How can we help her get out of this cycle? People have suggested evaluations, counseling, and therapy for her son, but none of that seems to happen. I’m not blaming Beth for that because obviously she can’t drag her son out to the car and make him do these things. But what can be done? I don’t have the answer to that.

Here’s the thing, though: It isn’t up to you personally, nor the Hive collectively to fix Night Elf’s son, even if she posts the same question for twenty more years. Some things may not even be fixable. What is so bad about asking for advice on a given thing repeatedly? If you personally don’t want to read more posts from her about what to do about her son just don’t read them. 

I can tell you that I have struggled many times with one of my kids and always asking the question, “Do I require this of him? Or am I trying to force him into something he cannot handle?” It is hard. It is hard to parse out where to challenge and where to simply support. It’s super difficult even when it’s one’s own child, never mind just a description from a poster on ths board. Nevermind if the parent himself/herself has anxiety problems. 

[unsinkable]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Well, I have noticed that happen sometimes. Including that my comments are sometimes ones that don’t fit the general mainstream of this forum. But I think I don’t let myself get as upset about it—or at least try not to. 

To put my money where my mouth is...even within the thread that said I shouldn't be on the College Board, there was advice that beneficial and sparked some "hold my beer moments" since then.

* The idea to sign up for 15 credits knowing that dropping a class is an option for wiggle room or if it isn't a good fit or it is too difficult 

*Withdrawals are better than Fails

*Utilize the Pass-Fail option

Now I know that I'm potentially making some people's heads explode, and they are gearing up to tell how WRONG all of this is...but it works for what are now my child's goals, which are: Staying in school, getting credits, and moving forward. 

Yes, Withdrawals look bad, yes, you can only take so many pass-fails, yes, people can't afford to putter along with 12 or less credits.

Yes, yes, yes, any one who wants to tell me how "this will never work! this is horrible advice!" Yes, you are right. I will hold your beer when you come up with a better idea that works for my kid.

[unsinkable]

5 minutes ago, Quill said:

Here’s the thing, though: It isn’t up to you personally, nor the Hive collectively to fix Night Elf’s son, even if she posts the same question for twenty more years. Some things may not even be fixable. What is so bad about asking for advice on a given thing repeatedly? If you personally don’t want to read more posts from her about what to do about her son just don’t read them. 

I can tell you that I have struggled many times with one of my kids and always asking the question, “Do I require this of him? Or am I trying to force him into something he cannot handle?” It is hard. It is hard to parse out where to challenge and where to simply support. It’s super difficult even when it’s one’s own child, never mind just a description from a poster on ths board. Nevermind if the parent himself/herself has anxiety problems. 

Catwoman is a fixer. And she is tireless. And she cares. 

That's why, IMO, she keeps replying.

[Catwoman]

Never mind!

I think I totally misinterpreted the post I was responding to!

Sorry! Carry on!

Edited September 11, 2018 by Catwoman
General stupidity on my part

[Catwoman]

30 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I haven't read the thread, but I want to tell you about my brother. He's an aspie who kind of floated in and out of CC, then worked in food service for a long time- ice cream shop, restaurant bus boy, etc.. Then, out of the blue, he announces that he wants to become a truck driver. This is the kid who took 4 tries to pass his driver's test. It was honestly the last thing we imagined for him. So he goes on to put himself through school, get a job, and has now been happily driving for 4 years. He just turned 34, so this all started when he was 30ish.

So, all that to say, you never really know with an aspie. Sometimes they set their minds to something that seems like a bad fit and it turns out to be a great thing. 

 

Thank you for sharing your brother’s success story! I hope more people will post similar stories to help encourage Beth that her son can have a happy and successful future, as well. ?

[sassenach]

7 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Thank you for sharing your brother’s success story! I hope more people will post similar stories to help encourage Beth that her son can have a happy and successful future, as well. ?

 

I'm just so stinking ? proud of him. The whole family worried about him- what if he fails? We didn't want him to be crushed by setting his sights on something that was "too hard" for him. Overprotecting can become a family illness. But we all just held our breath and tried to stay outwardly positive. There were some dicey moments, tbh. His first winter he got frostbite so bad from grabbing some chains with bare hands that he ended up in a burn unit for treatment. My mom has called me in tears more than a few times. But he's independent for the first time in his life. He's great with his money, he has goals, it's beautiful. Now if we could just find him a lady, all would be perfect.

 

 

[katilac]

20 hours ago, Night Elf said:

 I asked if he wanted to go ahead and start the application process for school to even see if he could begin in January but he said not right now. 

1

 

Eh, I would just do the application for him, lol. And submit it. Done and you don't have to worry about doing it at the last minute or missing a deadline. Applying and getting accepted is not an obligation to attend. 

I submitted an application for my dd to a college she had no interest in, because I was feeling anxious about her changing her mind about going away and then not having enough in-state choices. It didn't obligate her and it made me feel better, so there ya go. 

 

[Pen]

35 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I think we probably all agree that Beth’s son needs a thorough evaluation to try to find out what’s really going on 

 

Yes. I think we have a general consensus on that. 

35 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

and he needs therapy and counseling to help him move forward with his life.

 

Yes. That too.  And probably that he needs some coach who is not Beth to help him. 

35 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

The problem is that these things have been suggested in thread after thread, and Beth’s son doesn’t seem amenable to them.

 So what should Beth do?

 

Definitely crux of problem!

And I fear ending up in such a dilemma myself in a few years  

Possibly going to get evaluation and to job counseling could be made “requirements “ of living at home.  But he’d be too big to put in a car seat and take him in kicking and screaming  So if he refuses, then what?  

 

I wonder if an evaluation could be done by house call where his refusal to go out to it would be considered as part of the evaluation  .  ???

And nowadays some job coaching and counseling could probably be done via internet  

 

35 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

If you think I’m wrong about believing her son shouldn’t be sitting on the sofa all day playing video games, yet he also shouldn’t be under any pressure at all to do anything more productive, what do you think should happen? 

 I really do respect both your opinions on this (and Katie’s, too,) so I’m wondering what you would do in Beth’s situation. You certainly have a tremendous amount of experience that I lack, and I would really like to know how you would handle it. Beth’s son is still only 22, but what if the years keep passing and he’s still sitting on that sofa? That’s what worries me.

 

Worries me too. I am sure it worries Beth also. 

And I do hope some more experienced people here will have good answers. 

 

I think the “easy” questions, tend to be asked only once. Good suggestions come. A decision is made.  Done. 

The hard questions get asked again and again.

Or maybe they are just “hard” because there is not a clear workable solution. 

[ktgrok]

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3 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

Eh, I would just do the application for him, lol. And submit it. Done and you don't have to worry about doing it at the last minute or missing a deadline. Applying and getting accepted is not an obligation to attend. 

I submitted an application for my dd to a college she had no interest in, because I was feeling anxious about her changing her mind about going away and then not having enough in-state choices. It didn't obligate her and it made me feel better, so there ya go. 

 

Great idea. Or set a time, a specific one, to sit with him and do it together. Have yummy food ready while you do it. A bag of chips or favorite cookies.

[Pen]

I wonder if he could use gamification apps to help with getting things done?

For example, when I asked about productivity apps someone mentioned “Habitica” which does that. 

Less gamified, but possibly still helpful along those lines, I found “Strides” and “Productive”.  

Maybe as with a younger child Beth and her dh could offer tangible rewards for ________

(going to evaluation; going to job counselor; submitting job applications; helping around house with housework; ... )

[itsheresomewhere]

I know you said in this thread he had a job coach for 6 weeks and you stopped it.  Six weeks is not enough time for a good coach.  If that one was not a good fit, then look for another one.  Most families I know hire a job coach for their ASD child for at least 4 months.

[katilac]

3 hours ago, HeighHo said:

 

 Denying a disabled person who did not conceal the particulars of the disability that would affect his ability to do the job with reasonable accommodations during the interview process a job coach request once employed is grounds for a lawsuit. 

I'm not even going to comment on your assumption that a disabled person cannot be trusted to do this job.  Reasonable accommodations are legally required.

 

I don't think that was her assumption.

Reasonable accommodations are required, but speed is the issue with this person and fast-paced jobs. Employees with disabilities may be given accommodations and tools to perform the job, but they must be able to meet the same production standards as other employees. Lowering output is not, by law, considered a reasonable accommodation. So a pharmacy tech might get to sit rather than stand as a RA, they might get an automated pill counter as a RA, but they aren't going to get a slower pace as a reasonable accommodation. 

Just now, Pen said:

 Possibly going to get evaluation and to job counseling could be made “requirements “ of living at home.  But he’d be too big to put in a car seat and take him in kicking and screaming  So if he refuses, then what?  

I wonder if an evaluation could be done by house call where his refusal to go out to it would be considered as part of the evaluation  .  ???

And nowadays some job coaching and counseling could probably be done via internet  

4

 

I agree that there is no way to enforce that type of requirement. But you can make the stay at home life a bit less comfortable, particularly when you are trying to suss out "can't vs won't." 

Limiting video game time isn't a brutal hardship on anyone. Requiring someone to pay some bills and thus have less pocket money isn't unreasonable, imo. Different things make sense for different people, but I do think there are reasonable things to try in each situation. If a person actually does sit on the sofa staring into space for hours and hours each day because they can't play video games, then you have gained some useful information - this person is probably depressed or has a true addiction. 

That's an interesting thought about evaluating when they refuse to go. It would be worth a call to a few places. Maybe somebody would indeed come to the house. Not an entire team, but at least a psychologist or counselor? I know for sure we have a few counselors locally who don't have a typical office, they meet clients at parks, walking trails, coffee shops, wherever they are comfortable. And they do video and messaging in between. I can't imagine they would refuse to come to someone's house, particularly in that situation. 

Job coaching and therapeutic counseling are both definitely available online. 

[itsheresomewhere]

Go for an evaluation= WiFi Password for the house might be an encourage nudge to get him to go.  

 

[katilac]

Just now, Pen said:

I wonder if he could use gamification apps to help with getting things done?

For example, when I asked about productivity apps someone mentioned “Habitica” which does that. 

Less gamified, but possibly still helpful along those lines, I found “Strides” and “Productive”.  

1

 

Good suggestion! And gamers are usually all about points and competition, so a challenge with mom and dad might motivate him. Everyone having different checklists, of course. 

Digressing for my own purposes: Pen, have you tried any of them? 

[Pen]

1 minute ago, katilac said:

 

Good suggestion! And gamers are usually all about points and competition, so a challenge with mom and dad might motivate him. Everyone having different checklists, of course. 

Digressing for my own purposes: Pen, have you tried any of them? 

 

Yes!  but I don’t want to derail this thread on to that. Should I resurrect my apps thread?

[katilac]

 

Just now, Pen said:

Yes!  but I don’t want to derail this thread on to that. Should I resurrect my apps thread?

 

 

Yes, please! I either missed or my memory is worse than I thought. 

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

 

Yes, please! I either missed or my memory is worse than I thought. 

 

It is resurrected. I have to go do some other stuff but will post some more details later. 

[ktgrok]

Also, mom breaking task down into tiny bits, and asking him to do one, and to do it right then, or at a specific time probably will work better than "look for a job". 

So, "create an account on this job website" with mom sitting there with him. or even her typing in the information but with him sitting there. That's one day. 

Then another day applying to one, again with her sitting there maybe. 

Or her giving him three options of job shadowing choices and he picks one. 

Or "I'm willing to set everything up for you to talk to a job coach, I just need to know you will talk with them, ok?" Then she sets it up to have them talk online or at the house or wherever. "Ok, Son, your appt is at such and such time."

It sucks. But "get a job" or "apply to school" is often too big.  

[Annie G]

One way to ease him into new things is to teach him to do some household chores and have him take responsibility for them.  With guidance he can develop a more varied daily routine- get up, shower, breakfast, chores, make lunch, play games, do something to advance his life (look at job listings, take an online quiz to help choose a career, explore a hobby, read something), etc. 

Beth, I would encourage you to help him expand his horizons so he can see his potential and find some confidence. It’s so easy to stagnate because it’s less work. He has money for fast food so why work? But I’m betting that when he was working he was proud of earning money and being a good employee.  You’re busy with your own job so I’m sure it’s hard to squeeze in helping him, but it really does need to be done. It’s ok to nudge him out of his comfort zone. I’m not suggesting that you push him beyond his ability, but I’m just not hearing any real details that make me think he cannot work at least part time.  No job is right for every person, even without the autism complication, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of jobs out there he could do.  

Yes, he still does need an evaluation and probably a job coach, but don’t settle for disability if he can achieve more.  I’ve been through this, and several friends have also been through it with their asd kids. It’s a lot of work, to be sure, but it feels really good to finally figure out how much the kid can achieve. Scaffolding might never end with our kid and two of my friends’ kids, but lifelong scaffolding is a small price to pay when it allows the person to brush up against the potential threshold without feeling overwhelmed. 

‘You have mentioned teaching him to drive several times. That might be a good goal! 

 

[katilac]

40 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 It sucks. But "get a job" or "apply to school" is often too big.  

 

 

It's often too big for any young person. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

It sucks. But "get a job" or "apply to school" is often too big.  

 

It is too big for most people, of any age and even if no LD or similar impediments.   

some people can chunk it into steps for themselves.  But many young adults can’t. 

[Ausmumof3]

4 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Ok, that makes sense to me. Thanks for explaining. 

But my question is this... if Beth and her dh put no pressure at all on their son to work or go to school, what will happen when he’s 25 and 35 and 45 and he’s still sitting on the sofa playing video games? 

I’m not being snarky — it’s a genuine concern.

Right now, we see an established pattern of Beth posting a thread because she’s very worried and people giving her lots of ideas and advice about things like evaluations and counseling and possible career possibilities, and then she posts an encouraging update saying her son is going to apply for jobs and consider returning to school... and a few months later, she posts almost the exact same thread and we go through the same discussion again. 

How can we help her get out of this cycle? People have suggested evaluations, counseling, and therapy for her son, but none of that seems to happen. I’m not blaming Beth for that because obviously she can’t drag her son out to the car and make him do these things. But what can be done? I don’t have the answer to that.

I’m not Katy but I don’t think anyone is suggesting they do nothing.  I think most people are just saying that his problems do look exactly like the problems of someone with ASD and that should be kept in mind when figuring out how to act instead of assuming I don’t want to.  

I don’t think sitting playing computer games is going to help anyone but I do think decision making on what to do next will be less straightforward than for an average kid.

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I’m not Katy but I don’t think anyone is suggesting they do nothing.  I think most people are just saying that his problems do look exactly like the problems of someone with ASD and that should be kept in mind when figuring out how to act instead of assuming I don’t want to.  

I don’t think sitting playing computer games is going to help anyone but I do think decision making on what to do next will be less straightforward than for an average kid.

 

I agree.

But I do think that while it is important not to over-estimate this young man’s capabilities, it is perhaps even more important not to under-estimate his capabilities and limit his opportunities by assuming he is too emotionally or psychologically fragile to handle something like part time employment or returning to school. No matter what he does, I trust that Beth will be paying close attention to his emotional state.  I think Annie’s suggestions were excellent because they involved being achievement-oriented but in a very gentle and positive way.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Catwoman

[Ausmumof3]

I just had another thought and feel free to ignore but that crazy homeschool blogger is a career coach with kids with Aspergers.  Penelope Trunk.  Some of her advice is nuts but some of the career coaching posts on Aspergers are quite sound and you might find something helpful by trawling now through her site.

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I agree.

But I do think that while it is important not to over-estimate this young man’s capabilities, it is perhaps even more important not to under-estimate his capabilities and limit his opportunities by assuming he is too emotionally or psychologically fragile to handle something like part time employment or returning to school. I think Annie’s suggestions were excellent.

I still don’t see anyone saying this.  I think they are just saying he might need more accommodations or support to make it work.

also he may take more time to find his feet.  

[Lang Syne Boardie]

4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I agree.

But I do think that while it is important not to over-estimate this young man’s capabilities, it is perhaps even more important not to under-estimate his capabilities and limit his opportunities by assuming he is too emotionally or psychologically fragile to handle something like part time employment or returning to school. No matter what he does, I trust that Beth will be paying close attention to his emotional state.  I think Annie’s suggestions were excellent because they involved being achievement-oriented but in a very gentle and positive way.

 

I thought the OP said her DH did give ds a fairly short time limit, to make a decision about job v. school. It doesn't sound like he added, "Or stay right here on the couch until you're 25 or 35, it doesn't matter."

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I agree.

But I do think that while it is important not to over-estimate this young man’s capabilities, it is perhaps even more important not to under-estimate his capabilities and limit his opportunities by assuming he is too emotionally or psychologically fragile to handle something like part time employment or returning to school. No matter what he does, I trust that Beth will be paying close attention to his emotional state.  I think Annie’s suggestions were excellent because they involved being achievement-oriented but in a very gentle and positive way.

It's not that they are not doable goals, the issue is how to get him to that point. Telling him he has to or "making it a requirement" are just not likely to work for someone with ASD.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

I thought the OP said her DH did give ds a fairly short time limit, to make a decision about job v. school. It doesn't sound like he added, "Or stay right here on the couch until you're 25 or 35, it doesn't matter."

Right, they are trying. But because those kinds of things don't usually work for kids with ASD or even EF issues, they keep ending up back in the same place. More advice to "make him" won't fix that. 

Beth, I'm going to again say "new eval". Because another BIG reason these kids game is that it is a hit of dopamine each time they tap a key or hit a goal. They are basically self medicating. It may be that he needs some actual medication, to break that cycle, rather than relying on the gaming to balance his brain chemicals. 

Also how is he with animals? He doesn't love working with people, would he like working with animals? Many of those with ASD have an innate talent for working with non verbal creatures. 

[Ausmumof3]

http://mailbag.penelopetrunk.com/category/coping-with-asperger-syndrome/

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

I thought the OP said her DH did give ds a fairly short time limit, to make a decision about job v. school. It doesn't sound like he added, "Or stay right here on the couch until you're 25 or 35, it doesn't matter."

 

Yes, he did, and I believe that time limit has already been exceeded. 

I wasn’t posting about the dh. Apparently, the family can’t afford to fully support their adult son once the dh retires, so it’s important to the dh that his son get a job or return to school to prepare for some kind of career. 

I was posting about the posts in this thread that seem to suggest that insisting the son get a part time job or return to school could cause him to become severely depressed or even suicidal. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Right, they are trying. But because those kinds of things don't usually work for kids with ASD or even EF issues, they keep ending up back in the same place. More advice to "make him" won't fix that. 

 

 

I actually do know this, as the parent of children on the autism spectrum. I've been very clearly on the side of working with that reality, in this thread.

My point was that if that's what Cat wants because she thinks that's the answer, the family is doing it. I don't understand why she keeps calling for the parents to tell the kid to get off his lazy butt and make something of his life, when his father does seem to be including a version of that tactic as part of his approach.

Is it that easy? No.

Will it work, without other scaffolding, support, education, and time? Probably not.

But if that's what Catwoman wants, she's already got it. I don't see any reason for her to keep saying it, except that maybe she missed that the young man's father did direct his son to get of the couch and do something, so I pointed it out.

 

[Catwoman]

9 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

It's not that they are not doable goals, the issue is how to get him to that point. Telling him he has to or "making it a requirement" are just not likely to work for someone with ASD.

 

Ok, but I keep coming back to the same question. If no one is allowed to require anything at all of this young man, what will stop him from living the rest of his life sitting on the sofa playing video games?

Gentle attempts at persuasion haven’t been effective, so what is the solution? 

I am asking a genuine question. I do not know the answer. 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Yes, he did, and I believe that time limit has already been exceeded. 

I wasn’t posting about the dh. Apparently, the family can’t afford to fully support their adult son once the dh retires, so it’s important to the dh that his son get a job or return to school to prepare for some kind of career. 

I was posting about the posts in this thread that seem to suggest that insisting the son get a part time job or return to school could cause him to become severely depressed or even suicidal. 

 

Nobody said they think THIS young man is at risk. They were answering a general attitude toward young adults with a general reality about young adults with ASD.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

I actually do know this, as the parent of children on the autism spectrum. I've been very clearly on the side of working with that reality, in this thread.

My point was that if that's what Cat wants because she thinks that's the answer, the family is doing it. I don't understand why she keeps calling for the parents to tell the kid to get off his lazy butt and make something of his life, when his father does seem to be including a version of that tactic as part of his approach.

Is it that easy? No.

Will it work, without other scaffolding, support, education, and time? Probably not.

But if that's what Catwoman wants, she's already got it. I don't see any reason for her to keep saying it, except that maybe she missed that the young man's father did direct his son to get of the couch and do something, so I pointed it out.

 

 

You are completely missing my point.

I think the son needs a new evaluation so Beth can find out what’s really going on with him, and so he can hopefully get the help (therapy, counseling, etc.) that he needs in order to start doing something positive with his life. I’m certainly not saying he should be thrown into the deep end of the pool. I realize he’s going to need to start slowly and that he may need a lot of scaffolding.

The question I have asked and that hasn’t been answered is... if no one is supposed to pressure him at all to get out of his comfort zone, what is to prevent him from simply continuing along as he is, with no goals or ambitions for the future? 

[ktgrok]

12 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Yes, he did, and I believe that time limit has already been exceeded. 

I wasn’t posting about the dh. Apparently, the family can’t afford to fully support their adult son once the dh retires, so it’s important to the dh that his son get a job or return to school to prepare for some kind of career. 

I was posting about the posts in this thread that seem to suggest that insisting the son get a part time job or return to school could cause him to become severely depressed or even suicidal. 

It’s not that him getting a job or going to school would cause him to be suicidal. It’s that most likely just telling him to do it won’t get him to do it, so if there are consequences for not doing it those consequences may drive him to that. Maybe that part wasn’t clear?

9 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Ok, but I keep coming back to the same question. If no one is allowed to require anything at all of this young man, what will stop him from living the rest of his life sitting on the sofa playing video games?

Gentle attempts at persuasion haven’t been effective, so what is the solution? 

I am asking a genuine question. I do not know the answer. 

 

Because in all reality people like feeling successful. They like being good at something. They like supporting themselves. They like being needed in someway. So if you can find a way to finagle it so he gets those things he will want to continue them. I’ve got because you said you had to, but because he finds it meaning in it.

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

Nobody said they think THIS young man is at risk. They were answering a general attitude toward young adults with a general reality about young adults with ASD.

 

Well, it was certainly implied. I’m terrible at multiquoting on this forum, but here is one example from after depression and suicide were mentioned.

On 9/10/2018 at 12:15 PM, Ktgrok said:

Suggesting he get a new evaluation is not what I was talking about. Even Beth agreed with that and contacted her psych to see how to go about doing that. But suggestions to just "make him" or "require him" are not only not helpful, but could have disastrous consequences.

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

 

 

The question I have asked and that hasn’t been answered is... if no one is supposed to pressure him at all to get out of his comfort zone, what is to prevent him from simply continuing along as he is, with no goals or ambitions for the future? 

 

Nobody's answered because nobody knows. You are talking about an individual, who is the son of the OP. She has not said what their plan is, if he does not return to work or school. She's the only one here who knows. (And she may not know, because they might still be kicking that can down the road because he isn't really old enough to be considered a failure-to-launch case yet.)

As far as what could happen generally, to adults with autism who are unable to work:

1. They might get disability. In other words, some state and federal entities might recognize a disability where there is one, and allow the support that disabled persons are entitled to.

2. They might be lucky enough to have support and local aid, so they can work toward employment and some kind of self-sufficiency. They might have a full-time job someday, or slightly less than full-time so they can get their benefits (screwed up country)...or they might have a part-time job and live in a group home. Or they might have relatives of their generation who take them in and continue to support them, once their parents are gone. There might be various ways it can work out for them, to survive and be safe and happy.

3. Or they might become homeless. Or addicted. Or dead.

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Just now, Catwoman said:

 

Well, it was certainly implied. I’m terrible at multiquoting on this forum, but here is one example from after depression and suicide were mentioned.

 

 

Your quote from Katie said "may not be helpful" - which is true. We don't know, but those who have BTDT and seen our kids *succeed* have something in common: We stayed on their side. She also said "could" be disastrous. That's a qualifier. It's a possibility, if the young man is one who will work with all his might and still fail, and then punish himself for failing, or decide not to "be a problem" when he lets his parents down again.

Everyone is telling you the same thing. You don't know what you're talking about, but those who are parents of children on the spectrum are all speaking the same language here.

 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

It’s not that him getting a job or going to school would cause him to be suicidal. It’s that most likely just telling him to do it won’t get him to do it, so if there are consequences for not doing it those consequences may drive him to that. Maybe that part wasn’t clear?

Because in all reality people like feeling successful. They like being good at something. They like supporting themselves. They like being needed in someway. So if you can find a way to finagle it so he gets those things he will want to continue them. I’ve got because you said you had to, but because he finds it meaning in it.

 

No, that part wasn’t clear. You said that requiring things of him could be “disastrous” after you posted about the potential for suicide. Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning, but that’s the way I interpreted it.

I understand what you’re saying about people wanting to be successful, but if being successful at playing video games is filling that need for him right now, how can Beth convince him that he should want to be successful at something else? And I’m not so sure that all people like supporting themselves. What if this kid is perfectly fine with the idea of being supported by his parents indefinitely?