Organizing work - binders, folders, trapper keeper?

[4KookieKids]

I have an organizationally challenged child. Last year, we kept all his materials in one single box with an adjoining shelf, and it was still a constant battle. He's 9, so sorta young, but I think old enough to do better this next year. So, I'm thinking that one thing I'll do is cut down the number of binders he has: instead of one 1" binder for writing, one for piano, one for science projects he's done, etc. we will put all in one large 3-4" binder that has tab separators. This past year, we ended up with loose papers all over the place, or stuffed into the pockets on binders because it was too laborious to actually put them away right, or filed in the wrong notebook, etc. It was a complete disaster. I think if he doesn't have to go searching for the right binder, things *might* go slightly smoother.... (wishful thinking? lol).

 

In general, I like the idea of the trapper keeper things, since things can be put in without putting holes in as well (folder from speech, small notebooks, workbooks, reading books, etc.) and we can also have pencils and such all in there too, but I am worried about all those pockets. I think they *could* help ds organize his stuff, or they *could* just become a million places to stuff more trash  paper projects or scraps he plans to use in some way. I'm looking for advice on people who have had some success helping their kids be more organized.  I'm so over spending an hour searching under every stone because he has no idea where he put his writing/math book/eraser/etc.

 

FWIW, I don't want to keep him at one table/desk all the time, unless there are really no other viable alternatives... He needs movement (he does much of his reading on an indoor swing, and his writing when I'm too distracted to remind him not to!), I have three younger kids as well who run through different parts of the house being distracting, he has major issues with focus but anxiety when isolated, and no separate school area, anyway. ?

[HomeAgain]

I gave my kid another three years and the problem gradually solved itself. ?

DS8 has separate things for each inside and outside the house.  I sit there at the table with him while he puts away his work.  I make sure he puts the binders and bags away in their homes.  Eventually, he'll get it done on his own.  Until then I'll keep scaffolding and helping him remember the steps.

[Melissa in Australia]

what we are trying this year is using Arnos fasteners https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/arnos-3-piece-fasteners-50-pack-es42692

What I do is use a coloured card paper for the front and back cover.  We add the page for the subject as soon as we finish the page. We have one for history, Narration, and Writeshop.  I hate ring binders as I always find the pages rip out and fly everywhere. I thought about buying binderbooks but thought that in reality  as they are plastic they are not so good for the environment  and the Arnos fasteners are metal so will break down before plastic. they are holding up very well the twins are fascinated on how the metal folds down and even after 6 months are excited to put their worksheets away.

[mom2att]

I agree with HomeAgain--9 is young to master this, particularly for kids with executive function issues.

I suggest one place to turn everything in when he is finished with it. Then YOU file it where you want it to go.  And you may have to supervise the turn-in process for a while yet. It's more difficult than it seems for someone like him (I have one similar), so making things as simple as possible is easier on everybody, such as "when you are finished with your reading/writing/math/etc, put your paper/book/pencil on THE TABLE." Not in this folder or that folder, on that shelf or this one, just one specific, easy, always the same place. And prompt him a million times--if he's been reading and is now wandering around the house, ask, "Did you put your work on the table?"

Trust me--keeping it simple will make it easier and less frustrating for everybody.

[fourisenough]

I won’t advise on the specific organization style/method you should follow (as I believe that is very personal; just pick something that makes sense to you), but I WILL say this: you have to inspect what you expect. Hourly, at first, and then twice-daily, and eventually just once at the end of his work day. And modeling good organizational habits is critical; show him, verbalize what you’re doing and why, and it will eventually become part of his process. The minute you slack off, he will, too. Ask me how I know... ?

[Bay Lake Mom]

I have a plastic 2 tier paper tray. When work is completed, they put it in their tray. This forces me to make sure I’m looking at all of their work. I then file it in the correct notebook (binder).  They know exactly what to do, and it keeps things neat. 

[regentrude]

Perhaps forgoing all the lose paper would help.

Back when I was in school, we had bound notebooks until Jr High (then we were allowed to use lose leaves and binders). There were no dozens of lose sheets floating around - all work was done in a bound notebook for the subject. Math problems were copied from book into notebook and solved there. It was very easy not to lose anything.

[4KookieKids]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

Perhaps forgoing all the lose paper would help.

Back when I was in school, we had bound notebooks until Jr High (then we were allowed to use lose leaves and binders). There were no dozens of lose sheets floating around - all work was done in a bound notebook for the subject. Math problems were copied from book into notebook and solved there. It was very easy not to lose anything.

 

I'm wondering if this might not be the way to go... He's so hard on paper, though, and tends to tear it a lot by pressing too hard, erasing too much, etc. But that would certainly help the issue of papers getting lost, even if he often still misplaces entire books... He does all his math in the book anyway (Singapore and Beast Academy), so we don't have loose paper floating around there too much. Hmmm...

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, 4KookieKids said:

. He's so hard on paper, though, and tends to tear it a lot by pressing too hard, erasing too much, etc. 

You might want to change writing utensils. Instead of having him use a pencil, give him a fountain pen. It glides on the ink and is much better for the wrist, and you cannot press. Plus you cannot erase; have him cross out wrong stuff neatly with a  ruler and continue. That's how kids in my home country are taught to write from the very beginning; no pencils except for drawings in geometry; no ball point pen until high school. 

[cintinative]

I might be alone in this, but I have my kids put all their loose paper on the bench that goes upstairs every day and I organize it and file it in their yearly binder.  For math, they have their own binder where they keep their work. Otherwise, I do the organization at this point. My nine year old would have struggled with the physical act of opening the 4" binder in the correct place without all the other paper falling out, etc.  

[4KookieKids]

31 minutes ago, regentrude said:

You might want to change writing utensils. Instead of having him use a pencil, give him a fountain pen. It glides on the ink and is much better for the wrist, and you cannot press. Plus you cannot erase; have him cross out wrong stuff neatly with a  ruler and continue. That's how kids in my home country are taught to write from the very beginning; no pencils except for drawings in geometry; no ball point pen until high school. 

 

How does he do correction on work with this method? I don't sit with him while he does his initial writing, but I think the physical act of writing it out a second time correctly would be too exhausting for him. I told someone just last week that I was considering switching to a fountain pen to make writing easier, and they looked at me like I was an alien. lol. 

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, 4KookieKids said:

How does he do correction on work with this method? I don't sit with him while he does his initial writing, but I think the physical act of writing it out a second time correctly would be too exhausting for him. I told someone just last week that I was considering switching to a fountain pen to make writing easier, and they looked at me like I was an alien. lol. 

you cross out the wrong stuff neatly with a ruler and the write the correct stuff. Spelling/copying mistakes - cross out word. Wrong line in a math problem - cross out line.

[4KookieKids]

16 minutes ago, regentrude said:

you cross out the wrong stuff neatly with a ruler and the write the correct stuff. Spelling/copying mistakes - cross out word. Wrong line in a math problem - cross out line.

 

I should've been more clear, I'm sorry. Do you leave extra space between lines to have room for corrections? If he catches a mistake before he's moved on, I understand how corrections work. I'm just wondering how it works when he catches it later - are the only options to completely re-write the work or to leave extra spaces while writing for later corrections?

[regentrude]

4 minutes ago, 4KookieKids said:

I should've been more clear, I'm sorry. Do you leave extra space between lines to have room for corrections? If he catches a mistake before he's moved on, I understand how corrections work. I'm just wondering how it works when he catches it later - are the only options to completely re-write the work or to leave extra spaces while writing for later corrections?

what subject are you thinking of? 

In math, if the problem is wrong, obviously one would have to redo the problem completely.

If a content question is answered incorrectly, put correct answer underneath.

Misspelled words - correct below if it's an important exercise. If it's just random daily work for content subject, just point out.

[4KookieKids]

50 minutes ago, regentrude said:

what subject are you thinking of? 

In math, if the problem is wrong, obviously one would have to redo the problem completely.

If a content question is answered incorrectly, put correct answer underneath.

Misspelled words - correct below if it's an important exercise. If it's just random daily work for content subject, just point out.

 

I guess I was imagining a paragraph about something, as he'll be working on paragraph writing this next year. He’d have to correct misspellings as well as poor grammar. Perhaps just rewriting it below if there isn’t space inline? I’m just not sure.

I spoke with him and he’s definitely rather individual notebooks than a binder and loose paper. 

Now to start looking for affordable (they’ll get lost and broken I’m sure...) but good fountain pens and ink... 

[regentrude]

13 minutes ago, 4KookieKids said:

Now to start looking for affordable (they’ll get lost and broken I’m sure...) but good fountain pens and ink... 

This is a good quality pen for kids:

https://www.amazon.com/Pelikan-Pelikano-Fountain-Right-Handed-940874/dp/B000FKNP5M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1529605450&sr=8-1&keywords=pelikan+fountain+pen

I never lost or broke a fountain pen, neither did my kids. If you write with it every day and keep it with the school writing utensils, how would it get lost?

[Porridge]

My friends dad recently old her that boys don't really develop those kind of skills until around age 12. This helped me a lot. I now no longer expect to not have to remind my son to do x, y, or z. I just expect I'll have to do that for.... another..... 4..... years..... :). But seriously, me relaxing my expectations has greatly improved our relationship, and when I stepped back, I realized he was making improvements!

[4KookieKids]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

This is a good quality pen for kids:

https://www.amazon.com/Pelikan-Pelikano-Fountain-Right-Handed-940874/dp/B000FKNP5M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1529605450&sr=8-1&keywords=pelikan+fountain+pen

I never lost or broke a fountain pen, neither did my kids. If you write with it every day and keep it with the school writing utensils, how would it get lost?

 

I ask myself that about his math books, as well, and they are considerably larger than a pen.... lol.

[caedmyn]

I have a couple like this.  Next year we are doing notebooks and spiral/Proclick bindings only, no loose papers.  I've also "bound" things in paper 3 prong folders before I got the Proclick machine.  You could try doing a term' worth at a time (instead of a whole year) if he's hard on stuff.

[...................]

I wish I could say that you should forego loose papers and rely on some other method such as notebooks or whatever, but that's just not reality. The sooner you can teach organization skills, the better.

Believe it or not, I find that folders are the enemy.  THey'll just stuff it in a folder every time, and then never, ever take the time to file the paper in its spot in the binder.  I don't encourage a lot of folders in the binders.

For now, I recommend only one binder (maybe two), with tabs separating each subject and a big office sized 3 hole punch nearby at all times.  Just like anything in parenting, though you have to be consistent.  And some kids require more consistency and effort to learn organization than others, of course. I would have a little "organization checklist" that you will, together, with a positive attitude, go over together at the end of each day. You do the checklist first, and then he may go play.  

BUT FYI I did not in any way expect independence on this issue till middle school - my son got there in 6th grade and my dd in 7th grade.  So, since your child is only going into 4th grade, the purpose of this meeting is to model organization together, not necessarily to expect it from him. He's a bit young for that.  Seeing and doing it together consistently will help him be ready when the time comes.

Also, He will eventually learn it is a lot more convenient to take care of the papers himself rather than having a meeting with mom every day!  But, FYI it might take a few years ?

[4KookieKids]

Thank you all so much for your input. I think I've decided on getting a file storage box for him that has a drawer at the bottom for holding pens, pencils, etc. I'll put hanging file folders in so I can group things (the book he's currently reading with the notebook where he writes about what he's read in one folder, the BA guide & practice book in one hanging folder, etc.) and he can have some practice just filing the notebooks away in the correct spot each day. My hope is that he'll start to get in the habit of filing things correctly while it's just one notebook into one hanging folder, and we can expand upon that in years to come, when we eventually transition to a binder. I am also cautiously optimistic that if I can put *all* his stuff into one box with a handle, maybe he'll just carry the box around when he goes to work in a different area of the house, and can put stuff *right* back into the box when he's finished, so that I don't end up school supplies all over the house (this last year, we had a box, but it was so big and large from having everyone else's stuff in it, that he was supposed to get his stuff out of it and put it back when he was done, but he couldn't actually carry the box with him).  I'm also hopeful that we won't lose quite as many writing utensils if the drawer for writing utensils is built into the box and he has the box with him wherever he's working, because we went ahead and order a decent fountain pen, and I don't want it getting lost in the first week! lol. Perhaps too many hopes, but we'll see! ?

[thornberryacademy]

I know you have found something to work for you, but just in case, would something like these work? 

 

http://www.meadonline.com/FiveStar/Products/Flex.aspx

[EKS]

At your son's age, and maybe forever while you're homeschooling, I would suggest organizing the work yourself.  The only thing to be gained by forcing him to do it is frustration.

For my organizationally challenged son, I only have him deal with his school-school work.  He has something similar to a trapper keeper, but it is extremely robust.  EVERYTHING goes in there.  For notes in school, he has a spiral binder.  That's it.  The goal is to keep everything together and not crumpled on the bottom of his backpack.  I figure that if he can't figure out how to organize himself in college, he probably doesn't deserve to be there.  It's not rocket science, after all.

(I also had another organizationally challenged son.  I did what I suggested above, and he seems to be doing ok in college and life.)

 

[birchbark]

On 6/21/2018 at 11:16 AM, regentrude said:

You might want to change writing utensils. Instead of having him use a pencil, give him a fountain pen. It glides on the ink and is much better for the wrist, and you cannot press. Plus you cannot erase; have him cross out wrong stuff neatly with a  ruler and continue. That's how kids in my home country are taught to write from the very beginning; no pencils except for drawings in geometry; no ball point pen until high school. 

 

Yes! Going to fountain pens with my boys was a game-changer! We use Pilot Varsity as they're not very expensive.

I also recommend bound notebooks (composition books, without the spirals) OR just a box for loose papers if you go that route. Binders are fussy and get so messy with younger kids.