Going on week 9 of homeschooling and I’m a wreck

[christien]

My son (9) went to an ‘academically advanced’ ? charter school until about 9 weeks ago.  He’s used to very fast paced and academically challenging environment.  He’s always needed supplemental assistance which I gave in the evenings and on the weekends.

We pulled him for a variety of reasons - he was receiving high grades, however, he was working his tail off for them.  We did NOT deschool - I think my husband would put his foot down with that.

The problem I am starting to see is that I expect A LOT (A LOT LOT LOT) from him still.  A typical day has ELA/Reading (Build Your Library), Math (I’ve changed 3 times so far and just started ALEKS) along with ST Math, Reflex Math and coding sprinkled throughout the week, science with Discovery Education.  He is going 35 minutes of work, 10 minutes off then starts again.  we usually start about 9:30ish and go until he’s ‘finished’ which ranges from 1:30-3:00 Mon - Thurs.  Friday is only poem recite and spelling assessment. I also have him do 2 ‘PE’ days at the YMCA.

This is — a lot ???  I’m thinking about simply doing Reading and Math and forgoing Science and SS for awhile.  I’m concerned that if I do that, I’ll be ‘cheating him’ somehow, but he’s super sensitive and I have no doubt he has some sort of anxiety.  He has recently started crying because he wants to finish and wants to make me happy.  I see so many posts that days are complete by noon and all is sunshine and rainbows & I KNOW that comparison is the thief of joy, but I’m lost.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Why don't you take some cues from him?  Accelerated kids can thrive with a lot but if it seems like play instead of work, it shouldn't cause anxiety.  Was he anxious before pulling him out?  Does he perhaps need an assessment and help with anxiety?  Is he on the autism spectrum?  (Only asked because my own now college kid is an Aspie with a lot of anxiety and was accelerated as well) 

[Jean in Newcastle]

PS - remember that all new jobs have a learning curve.  Even if you were a certified teacher, you would have one.  You sound like you have a lot of anxiety going on as well . . .   

[freesia]

It's hard to tell exactly what "too much" you are expecting from your post.  Are you working with him one on one?  Are you breaking for lunch?  Is the work too hard?  Sorry, it's just there are different solutions.  I don't think starting at 9:30, an average of 15 minutes off an hour, presumably lunch and working until 1:30 is too much.  And, if you are taking Friday off, you need to work more to get it all in.  If it feels like too much, maybe you should not take Friday off. 

The one thing I see is 3 maths? That's a lot.  Are you doing that in other subjects? 

My youngest is 8 and her schedule is:

9-9:45 work one on one with me in Math, go over her handwriting, Daily Language Review, Mind Bender and discuss her reading.

9:45-10:15 30 minutes of reading her assigned reader.

10:15-10:45  Spelling and writing (actual writing done later)

10:45-11 snack

11 ish group with me and her brother: poetry recitation, science reading, history reading, read aloud if time

11:50 piano and then Xtra math

Lunch

1 ish she has quiet time and finished any independent work: math page, handwriting, writing a paragraph

Sometimes after that we will do a science experiment project--but mostly that happens at our co-ops.

 

We do this schedule everyday.  Thursday afternoons we have history group with social studies and science activities (don't ask!), so we don't do group that day.  We also don't do group on Tuesday morning bc we school at a library.

Every other Friday morning we go to a co-op that takes the morning. She has art, science and fencing there and then, when she gets home she does math and reading.

[Bronze]

With homeschool, there can be an intensity to the parent/child interaction that is not there with classroom teaching. 

There can also be an intensity to the learning that is different from what happens in the classroom. If your child is doing 4+ hours where he actually needs to be on task and learning the whole time that can be overwhelming for a lot of kids--ten minutes isn't much of a brain break.

I think following your gut and cutting back is fine. You might consider giving him time during the day for interest driven learning.

[rose]

Just consider, if you cut back a bit you can always do a little through the summer if you come to think that it was a mistake.

[sweet2ndchance]

If institutional school wasn't working for him, why are you trying to emulate it at home? I'm really not trying to be snarky or anything with that question, but if the fast pace and long days were causing him stress at school, the same type of schedule at home isn't likely to produce different results. 

I certainly wouldn't expect a third grader to be done by noon unless they were either a) extremely studious and loved doing school work or b) they started their school work at 8am or earlier. But I also let them spread their work out through the day as long as it all gets done. If they have some interest project they spent the whole morning working on but don't get around to doing their math until after dinner that's fine with me, as long as it gets done to the best of their ability. If a topic we read about in history catches their interest and we watch a bunch of videos and visit a bunch of websites to find out more and they write an entire notebook page about it because it is interesting to them, then I would let copywork slide that day. No reason to insist on the copywork if they wrote more than I would have asked them to copy on their own free will.

As someone else mentioned, you have three maths going according to your list and two sciences (BYL and Discovery Education) plus coding which I consider to be part math and part science. Is that where he excels, math and science? Is that why you have it doubled up so much? Is there any way you could drop down to just one math and one science that you do regularly and use the others as a supplement or in an interest driven way? If he is interested in coding, could he pursue that on his own outside of his required school subjects? Similar to an extracurricular or afterschool club? There is rarely a reason to do multiple full curriculums in tandem even for an accelerated child.

My accelerated daughter didn't need more work, she needed more depth. She needed the freedom to dive deep into a topic in content subjects and to go at her own pace in skill base subjects. She needed to be able to move on and not keep practicing when she grasped concepts quickly. She needed to be allowed to fulfill her curiosity about a topic before moving on to the next. Giving her multiple lessons on the same subject from multiple books that might not always line up and teach the same things would have just overwhelmed her just like any other kid.

[Susan in TX]

The first thing I would do is cut out the breaks. Once we start school here, we go until we are finished. I don't even like breaking for lunch, so I try to start early enough to be done by lunch or start after. It doesn't always work out that way but I find that having to take a break seems to slow us down. 

Then I would take a few days and write down how long it took to cover each subject. It will help to figure out what is taking up the most time. That will help you see where you might want to cut back. 

I wouldn't necessarily drop science but you may want to do it just twice a week instead of every day.

Susan in TX

[EmilyGF]

One of my kids is at an accelerated school right now - kids had to test and have a certain IQ to get in.

If I pulled him out (and I probably will at the end of the school year), I'd refocus on deep and efficient work. The school work he gets now seems more focused on quantity than quality, IYKWIM.

But, I've also got confidence because I have older kids who have been homeschooled with that philosophy all their lives and are on par or above the kids in their age ranges (4th-7th) at that school. Plus, they are still curious, not burnt out, and not conditioned to think of themselves as "smart" (something that actually hurts kids' long term achievement). My kids spend their free time reading, crafting, exploring, etc. The kids I know from the academically accelerated school are too burnt out to do so and spend their free time playing Minecraft.

Emily

[Ausmumof3]

My almost 9 year old doesn't finish till 2 or 3 but we do break for lunch for an hour most days.

whats helping us this year is using the simplified organisation interval concept.  We school for six weeks then take one off instead of following the usual school schedule.  I used to always feel exhausted and overwhelmed by week six anyway so this is giving us a planned break to catch up on housework and projects, daydream and do some fun stuff.

[Ausmumof3]

Also I forgot to suggest - get audiobooks of some of the lit in build your library and you can have them on in the car.  That will reduce your schoolday a bit while still getting the stuff done.

[Targhee]

We took the approach of a full-force morning of core of education (morning basket, math, ELA), and an afternoon of self-directed learning.  For the self-directed parts we had a meeting together each quarter or semester to discuss what they were interested in learning, what they thought they were doing well with, what they thought they needed to improve, any books they wanted to read, etc.  We used this as a guide for self-direction and accountability.  Each Sunday we met, put things on the checklist that the child wanted to do, and reported on how they did on the last week.  Self-directed topics varied from building with snap circuits, learning to sew, coding, building a model, science kits, listening to SOTW while coloring, preparing for FLL, doing an online class, going to the library to do research or get resources for self-directed study, to any number of other things.  We also did 4 hours of co-op a week (they were "fun" classes), and a meet-up group maybe every other week.  I have several 2e kids, and this approach worked very well for them.  We got the general cultural knowledge (morning basket), and the strong fundamental skills (in ELA and math) that allowed them to really take off and let their giftedness find purchase.  Gifted doesn't alway mean they need to do MORE and FASTER; it often means they need to do things DIFFERENT and DEEPLY.  Give both you and your DS some space to develop your capacities, as a teachers and a learner/creator.  Best wishes!

[librarymama]

I think doing a short (3-5 min) break every 25-35 minutes is fine. It's basically a pomodoro technique. It is enough time to stretch, grab a snack, or go to the bathroom. 

But it does sound like you are doing a lot of work! My ODS was doing Reflex, St Math, and My Math gr 5 through his very challenging public school and it nearly drove him over the edge. Too much! I would only do that for a kid who just loves math and wants to do it all the time. 

 

[christien]

hi - thanks so much for the responses.

he’s had anxiety for quite some time - at least since late 1st grade (now in 3rd).  he’s going to a counselor for it and it’s slowly helping.  he has not exhibited any autistic tendencies.  he most certainly gets his anxiety from me.  i’m ever so slightly medicated for it and lately thinking i am going to need a bigger dose.  

we’re working 1 on 1 on most topics.  i have found that this “amazing” school was kind of “meh” for him.  the extra maths (ST Math, Reflex, etc) are extras and not completed every day - they are alternating and the reason he has them is because he is drawn to tech things.  he much prefers to learn via computer vs. paper or even ‘real life’ examples.  he loves ALL the math on the computer.  i’m  not 100% sure if it’s the challenges or the fact that he gets computer time.  we’re currently weaning him off his iPod where he would spend all day every day watching YouTube videos about Minecraft.

pomodoro was what I modeled the 35/10 after.  i definitely wanted more than 25/3-4 because that really wouldn’t get anything accomplished.  we were planning to switch to year round schooling in July — taking 1/2 of this May and all of June until the first full week of July off, then be on for 6 weeks, off for 1 week through the year — Thanksgiving through New Years will be time off with us ONLY reading.

we’re only doing BYL for SOTW and the book schedule, math and science are separate.  

i can’t cut out the breaks, he’s a total fidgeter and i think it would drive both of us batty for him to sit / stand next to me without the breaks.

science twice a week seems like it would be a good option — maybe finish a science unit using 2 days on / 2 off then work on a SOTW unit for 2 days on/off.

3 hours ago, sweet2ndchance said:

If institutional school wasn't working for him, why are you trying to emulate it at home? I'm really not trying to be snarky or anything with that question, but if the fast pace and long days were causing him stress at school, the same type of schedule at home isn't likely to produce different results. 

i’m starting to really see this and it’s kind of hit me like a ton of bricks.  i SO want him to be challenged and succeed, but i most certainly don’t want him to be pushed over the edge.  :(

[freesia]

What about it do you think is pushing him over the edge?

My boys at 9 had a hard time with written work, so we did a lot orally.

You have a lot of time for him to succeed.

[christien]

2 hours ago, freesia said:

What about it do you think is pushing him over the edge?

My boys at 9 had a hard time with written work, so we did a lot orally.

You have a lot of time for him to succeed.

his reaction to the volume and his reaction (tears, general anxiety symptoms) when he's not on target for completing his tasks.  

he's a huge people pleaser -- that coupled with his anxiety -- not good

[8filltheheart]

One thing I would recommend thinking about educating our kids at home and their learning content does not have to resemble classroom learning.  

Taking a nature walk and creating a list of changes you see right now as the seasons are changing can lead to an investigation about different concrete examples--animal migration, tree sap and the making of maple syrup, etc. You can ask questions to make him think and then spend time researching them. Questions like, what do bees do during the winter? do we have any local animals that hibernate (the life cycle of a bull frog can be quite interesting here bc it takes them 2-3 yrs of being a tad pole before reaching adulthood.) 

Lots of concepts can be reviewed by playing games. For example, a card game of war can incorporate addition or multiplication or fractions.  (Flip up to cards instead of 1. Either add the cards, multiply them, or turn them into fractions and then the largest answer wins the cards.)

Writing can be taught across curriculum so that writing assignments are doing double duty---being used to teach writing kills while reinforcing content matter. They can create little research booklets on topics that interest them (dinosaurs, solar system, whatever.)

Fwiw, my 3rd graders can definitely complete all their focused academic work in 3 to 3 1/2 hrs. Their days are full of hours that they need to fill with self-entertainment (which excludes all electronics.) I consider that a vital life skill for self-regulation and discovering themselves what they like pursuing.

[Bluegoat]

I'd think seriously at that age about making nature study the science focus, and for social studies reading books without a lot of requirement for output.  And cut back the extra math for now.  You can always add that stuff in later, or use it as summer activities.

The point of content subjects at that age is to learn about the world, not produce output.

[EKS]

You are doing too much.  Assuming that he is on level with everything, I'd cut back to some version of the following:

Math: If you like ALEKS, use that and only that.  Have him work for 30 minutes or so each day.  But I will warn you that any enthusiasm he might have for ALEKS early on will probably evaporate once he gets to stuff he doesn't know.  

Reading: Have him read at least 30 minutes every day.  It's up to you if this should be aloud or silently.  If he does this on his own, then *don't* assign more or say anything about reading being for school--there is plenty of time to fold it into your school day.

Writing: Have him write 1-3 paragraphs per week.  Give him general prompts relating to things he's been learning or thinking about.  He could do all of this at once or spread it out over the whole week.  Adjust the amount according to his writing ability.  Some kids will struggle to produce a single sentence at his age and some will easily produce pages.

Mechanics (grammar, spelling, handwriting, etc): Let it go for now.  

The above is the absolute minimum.  For fun, I'd add read alouds (you reading aloud) for history, geography, science, and literature.  I'd read aloud for about an hour each day.

Spend time between now and the fall thinking about how you want your homeschool to be and researching curriculum materials.

[nixpix5]

You have had a lot of great advice so far. I just want to say that sometimes it is an easy trap to fall into that if we don't accelerate or push our children academically that they might be missing out on something or not meeting potential. I certainly fell into this trap with my oldest who is now an adult. What I have learned along the way is that the love of learning is what will propel them later, not a brain full of information that may or may not still be there a year from now. Experiences, relationships, investigation, following interests...these things will be forever ingrained in his academic experience and they will light a fire. Kids pair experiences as their brain lays foundations. Right now he is equating work with stress and anxiety. That could ultimately cause him to run the other direction later in life. What you want to do is get him to a place where he sees his learning as lifelong, fun, interesting...snuggling on the couch and reading about spiders and then going out into the world with a camera to take pictures of cool webs, then coming home to make a web and look at the math behind it...things like that. Homeschooling is so liberating. You don't have to school like he was schooled in his brick and mortar. It obviously wasn't a model that worked for him. If you look at research, kids that are accelerated early when compared to kids that had a slow start to education end up at the exact same academic point later in elementary and in some cases, the slow start kids shoot past the accelerated kids. Anxiety has the opposite effect on learning, it causes our brains to shut down and not be able to retain the information. This is because as survivalist, our bodies are equipped to help us only retain the stressful feelings when faced with something aversive so we don't put ourselves back in that danger again. When this happens in education it can be pretty terrible. What does he love? Can you spend a month doing a unit study that wraps all of the basics into a topic he might like to delve into deeper? 

[sweet2ndchance]

Giving him challenging academics doesn't necessarily mean he has to be on the bleeding edge of what he is ready for all the time. Nor does it mean that he needs tons of extra work just because he can do the work.

Providing challenge is not in how much time we spend doing school, it is in what we spend our time studying when we do spend time on academics. An example would be doing one challenging math problem that he is proud to have figured out vs a page full of problems that are dull and boring and just mean to drill a particular skill.

If he likes Reflex Math and ST Math, great, you could let those be treats for getting his required lessons done.

1 hour ago, nixpix5 said:

 Anxiety has the opposite effect on learning, it causes our brains to shut down and not be able to retain the information. This is because as survivalist, our bodies are equipped to help us only retain the stressful feelings when faced with something aversive so we don't put ourselves back in that danger again. 

 As someone who suffers from severe anxiety, I have to agree with this 110%! Memory problems with anxiety are horrible and tend to cause more anxiety which makes the memory problems worse, it becomes a never ending circle. My anxiety isn't connected to learning in general but I can only imagine the stress he feels when he knows he knew the answer before but cannot remember it now and then feels like he failing to please you and dad because he's struggling to remember which causes more anxiety then he gets more anxious trying to remember the strategies he's been taught in therapy to manage the anxiety then he feels like he is failing again because he can't remember that at the moment either... the mind of an anxious person is not a pretty place. I would say your priority right now should be to find his love of learning again at a pace he can handle.

[knitgrl]

4 hours ago, sweet2ndchance said:

Giving him challenging academics doesn't necessarily mean he has to be on the bleeding edge of what he is ready for all the time. Nor does it mean that he needs tons of extra work just because he can do the work.

This. Someone somewhere on these forums said something like "Just because they are capable of doing something doesn't necessarily mean they should." Our dd has been capable of reading at an advanced level, but that is not the sort of reading she gravitated to. It felt like she was going to just read Geronimo Stilton FOREVER, but this year, she has discovered meatier things. It was on her own time, and on her own initiative. (I did make sure there were always things other than Geronimo Stilton lying around the house for her to pick up.) My take away is that I don't always have to push my kids, they will progress when the time is right.

[christien]

5 hours ago, OKBud said:

Re: recreating school at home, you may be interested in SWBs new book, Rethinking School. She gave a great talk about it. I'll see if I can find it--standby. We had a big thread started by Texasmom just a little bit ago.

it was just delivered a few days ago and is in my "to read" pile.

 

i cannot thank you all enough -- your responses have been incredible and thought provoking.  thank you, thank you!  :) 

i think we're going to "math and read" it through the rest of the year while we discover what he wants to work on next year.

the response about my DH made me giggle.  he's FULLY on board with the HS - he even suggested it when we were talking about pulling my son out of his charter school (me thinking the school down the street, husband thinking HS...).  i just can't imagine him OK'ing us doing "nothing".  

[Kiara.I]

On 04/04/2018 at 6:34 PM, christien said:

the response about my DH made me giggle.  he's FULLY on board with the HS - he even suggested it when we were talking about pulling my son out of his charter school (me thinking the school down the street, husband thinking HS...).  i just can't imagine him OK'ing us doing "nothing".  

 

So don't present it as "doing nothing."

Present it as "deschooling and recalibrating."

You have a child with a diagnosed mental health condition. Recalibrating life for a while as a treatment of that isn't a bad plan! If school was increasing anxiety, and now so is homeschool, then something is off and taking a deliberate, time-limited, step back to treat that isn't "nothing." It's "really important, really valuable, specific SOMETHING."

 

Consider other ways you can sell it:

- a deliberate time of introducing self-guided study. (Bored children with no screens available find things to do.)

- a deliberate focus on outdoor study. (More outdoors hours are good. Hang out in one habitat for a couple of weeks, field, forest, shore... Then a couple of weeks in a different one. Don't "study" though, just let him "be" there.)